Homosexuality

[cdavis]

Ok I feel better about this now elucidate lol.

I don't know, the double your dosage comment was kinda low but at least in my world I don't go to that level unless someone wants to take me there with them. And you picked me up, threw me in the car, and drove me aaalll the way there lol but I can see how my use of the word funny was misconstrued so it's no biggie.

I forgive you if you forgive me?

[elucidate]

Originally Posted by cdavis

Ok I feel better about this now elucidate lol.

I don't know, the double your dosage comment was kinda low but at least in my world I don't go to that level unless someone wants to take me there with them. And you picked me up, threw me in the car, and drove me aaalll the way there lol but I can see how my use of the word funny was misconstrued so it's no biggie.

I forgive you if you forgive me?

I can do that

Glad you feel better. It was making me feel yucky as well...so now I can feel better too

[cdavis]

agsags -

hhmmm....I don't know about the masculinity/father thing. I mean...I guess if a straight guy was really out of touch with his dad then maybe he could find himself attracted on some level to a really macho guy once in a while? There's so many guys though who have a dead father who are never attracted to other guys, and so many guys who have a very healthy relationship with their father who are 100% gay.

So many of these ex gay therapists have such a twisted agenda. By far, the vast majority of the psychological/therapeutic/whatever you want to call it community does not view homosexual behavior as abnormal and views ex-gay therapy as total rubbish. And it's not like they didn't completely examine this kind of therapy, how it works, and the results of it all before removing homosexuality from the DSM many, many years ago. Scientists, people who study behavior, people who do this stuff for a living, examined ex-gay therapy and programs and determined that they were bunk, plain and simple.

And if I can draw your attention to a simple fact for a second, the vast majority of the people who would even want to go through this therapy are MEN (not women) and I really think it's because they aren't man enough to own up to who they truly are inside. Do you know how much courage it takes for a man to be openly gay especially if they live in a not so accepting community? It takes a man to admit he's gay, as funny as that sounds. It's more of a "oh god I can't put the gay card in the hand life has already dealt me!" thing, they just want to do away with one more strike life could possibly have against them (when it doesn't need to be a strike at all). So yea, the problem isn't the fish, it's the bigoted water it's swimming in. If there was zero prejudice against homosexuality, there wouldn't even be one ex-gay therapist out there today. It simply does no harm.

My advice to you is that if you're a straight guy, and you notice something makes you attracted to a guy, who cares? If you put on orange underwear one day, and it makes you get a crush on another guy, ok those are your gay underwear lol. If you talk to your mom for 30 minutes, and you go gay, talking to your momma makes you gay for some reason. I can tell you for sure though that it's not just your underwear, or just your mom, or just your dad. Your interaction with them has to bring out something inside of YOU that is already there to begin with. Kinda like when someone says "you made me hit you! I'm not an angry person!". It's like um, sorry but my words brought out a side of you that has to already exist, otherwise it couldn't come out to begin with. So I will have to admit, even if you think of yourself as 100% straight, I'll have to say it's you doing the gay...and not your dad or lack of one at a certain time...but that's up for you to judge.

But I'm glad I know this "talking to your dad thing". Maybe from now on the key to my relationship success is to cut off all communication between my straight crushes and their dads....muahahahaha, the guys will be all mine

[cdavis]

haha ok elucidate, we forgive eachother then

[Neal2009]

Originally Posted by elucidate

This subject came up recently on another thread about kids being sexual.

I don't want to derail this thread, but I'm interested in whether you knew what sex was at that age, or if it was just an 'urge' to put your wee wee somewhere wet

If you feel like answering you can PM me?

Ok will do.

[Neal2009]

Originally Posted by agsags

Neal,

This might be a little too much psychoanalysis, but what is your relationship with your dad and masculinity in general? I'm asking, because while I have always loved women, at times when I was lost and directionless (as in not in touch with my masculinity), I had "man-crushes" on few of my very masculine friends (masculine not in the macho sense) and even felt sparks of sexual desire. There is a somewhat unpopular "ex-gay" therapist who claims that for some predominantly straight men, attraction to other men is a search to reestablish connection with the masculine (father-energy and all) and because non-sexual intimacy between man is non-celebrated in the today's culture, this desire gets sexualized. He claimed that after sharing physical intimacy with his clients in a non-sexual manner, they reported not having sexual attraction to other men.

Disclaimer for the cdavis: I am NOT claiming that the above applies to all or even majority of male gays/bisexuals. But based on my personal experience, the above theory has some merit for some.

Hmm interesting concept, if only purely from a academic persecutive. While I don't actually agree for a variety of reasons. I'll still answer your question and see what you make of it.

I have never had what you would call a nurturing relationship with either of my parents, rather it has been a simple functional one. I can't say I didn't feel loved per say, it simply wasn't something I was aware existed until I spent more time in other households when I was older. I'm not saying by any means my parents didn't love me, it's quite clear by the sacrifices they made they very much did and do. I just mean in terms of affection, communication and guidance, my father simply didn't express his feelings towards me a lot. It just not how my parents were. I think in my entire life, my mother has hugged/kissed me less than 10 times.

Now when it comes to masculinity, I think I understand somewhat where your coming from. although I come from a very hyper masculine culture, for many years I was at odds and to some degree still am, at what being a "man" is all about. For the sake of personal protection, I learned how to fake it, but I deep down identified with women as much, if not more than men. I remember always reading my mothers magazines and being interested in more feminine topics, which has led me to have a social circle with a higher female than male ratio. However, there has always been a element of sexual desire in these relationships, one that at times has been tempered with a need to both find a mothering figure and a victim to take care off. Conditactory at best, but as you know we as humans are not simple creatures.


My man-crushes, as you put them, have tended to be towards very charismatic individuals who have a abundance of female admirers. When they have kicked in with a random person, it feels more of a urge to do something that I know I can't do, rather than a genuine attraction. I don't know if masculinity is a factor, as it's a chicken and egg question. For a guy that gets ( and tends to sleep with a lot of women) what comes first? A high level of masculinity stemming from the ability to get and statisfy women, or a large amount of admirers because of said masculinity?

For me it's hard to separate the two to define what has attracted me to those men in the past.


I do agree in any case that their can be clear repercussions from a lack of physical intimacy between parents and children. The relationships within my family are a clear example of that, where there are 4 children, and none are especially close to their parents.

I don't know if I would go as far to suggest that could be the basis of homosexual behaviour, even for some, regardless if you agree that not all people who claim that orientation, are actually gay.