Help understanding what Steve means

[Shindra]

Originally Posted by SecretSeven

Wow can you say "Babel" lol.......that is soooo confusing..no offense lol. But I really don't understand that hmm maybe you could simplify it

You only exist if you are aware of yourself. I only exist when/if you are aware of me. Your awareness does not come from your physical body. It does not come from your ego.

Everything you see is created by your consciousness, just like your dreams are.



Your ego only exists if you are aware of it. It exists within your consciousness. You can change it's body, age it, make it fat or thin. You can change your mind about something. You are still you. You are that which changes it. You are that which is aware of a body and a mind with a nickname 'SecretSeven'.

[SecretSeven]

Ok, that's starting to make more sense......Does that mean that you (with the nick name Shindra) only exist when you are aware of yourself...just like I only exist when I am aware of myself?

[Shindra]

Originally Posted by SecretSeven

Do you believe in subjective reality?

I think subjective reality is the truth, but I don't really believe in it yet. I have not internalized the belief. I do not 'know' it as true. I think about it.

Originally Posted by SecretSeven

Are you saying that you are a fictional character? If so, am I a fictional character as well?

All of reality is a dream. All of reality is fiction. The real you is the dreamer, the writer of the story. SecretSeven is your fictional character. The real you is that which is aware of SecretSeven. You are not SecretSeven. That is simply the main character in the story you are writing. The ego you (erronously) identify with. The avatar you have direct control over in this game.

When we play a role-playing computer game, we often identify with the avatar we are playing. That is how computer games are made. So when you get gold, you have a feeling of greedy achievement. When a monster comes at you, you might become startled, and you want to kill it. In subjective reality, you are not that character on the screen. The whole game is within your consciousness, and it is programmed by your thoughts and beliefs, by what you hold as true in your consciousness. So, you don't see a monster coming at you. You are sitting there looking at a screen where a monster-avatar attacks a human-avatar. This all happens within the consciousness you then identify as - within you. So there's fighting within you. Ending that fighting by making one of the two fighters suffer and die does not seem like a good idea, because they are both equally you. Perhaps, in a computer game, you'd cast a pacify spell on the monster until you could reprogram monsters to stop fighting and be nice. Jesus said, "love you enemies." All would be for the purpose of there being less fighting and suffering within you.


This idea of singular subjective reality is simply this: There is only one consciousness. Everything that exists, exists within that consciousness. That consciousness creates reality with it's intentions, it's beliefs.

Have you read the three subjective reality Q&A posts by Steve? They make it easier to understand. http://www.stevepavlina.com/blog/200...ve-reality-qa/

[SecretSeven]

*You said that the real me is the dreamer? Is the real you the dreamer aswell?

*Is Shindra your fictional character?

*What is the main character in the "story" you are writing?

*Just like I have direct control over "secretseven", do you have direct control over "Shindra" in the same way that I have control over my character?

[Shindra]

Originally Posted by SecretSeven

Ok, that's starting to make more sense......Does that mean that you (with the nick name Shindra) only exist when you are aware of yourself...just like I only exist when I am aware of myself?

I only exist when I'm aware of myself. Other people exist when I'm aware of them - they do not need to be self-aware, just as my thumb does not need to be self-aware in order to be a living part of my body. I am aware of my thumb - that is enough. My thumb is not aware of me. There is only one awareness. So, SecretSeven and Shindra are not really aware of each other. I(consciousness) am aware of them interacting. Just like I dreamed I was a character that interacted with another. Just like I wrote a story with several characters.

I could dream I was a pink elephant, interacting with other elephants. That does not make me a pink elephant. I am consciousness, and I can experience myself as anything I can dream of. Anything I can make myself believe will become reality. Thoughts, beliefs, intentions manifest.

[SecretSeven]

So we are both the same consciousness? Just like every being on this planet is the same consciousness?

[Shindra]

Originally Posted by SecretSeven

*You said that the real me is the dreamer? Is the real you the dreamer aswell?

When Steve says he thinks he is consciousness, it is something I am creating in my 'dream'.
I can create many people, with their fictional(dream, illusion) stories.
"[There once was a pink elephant that discovered it was not really a pink elephant - it was actually a human lying in a bed, dreaming that he was a pink elephant. Then the human discovered that he was not actually really a human - he was something more, he was that which was aware of being human. And then he became aware that he was really awareness.]"

There is only one dreamer. There is only one "real me." Only one "I".

Originally Posted by SecretSeven

*Is Shindra your fictional character?

*What is the main character in the "story" you are writing?

If awareness centers on Shindra, Shindra is the main character.

I created Shindra, and I created the experience of being Shindra by forgetting what I really am.

I am making Shindra unravel the mysteries, see the incongruencies in the common belief systems, so that I, through Shindra, can experience the wonder of being what I am, in relation to what I am not, to the forgetful, illusory experience of being a fragile ego that can suffer.

Nothing exists without it's opposite - no hot without cold, for example. No greatness without something 'lesser'.
For something to be experienced, it has to exist in relation to something else.

So I created things that seemed different, that seemed seperate, so that I could experience fear and suffering, after which I could experience Love and oneness.

I created the illusion of seperate consciousnesses, of something existing 'out there', so that I could experience fear that 'the other', the 'something else', could 'do something to'/'impose upon' the fragile ego I thought I was.

I can in fact not be harmed. Awareness is aware is awareness, unchangeable.

Originally Posted by SecretSeven

*Just like I have direct control over "secretseven", do you have direct control over "Shindra" in the same way that I have control over my character?

At any point in time - and there is really only one, Now - awareness only has direct control over one character.

[Shindra]

Originally Posted by SecretSeven

So we are both the same consciousness? Just like every being on this planet is the same consciousness?

Yes. All That Is, is consciousness. The one. One and the same.
However, if you took one part, one thing out - say, an ego, or a thumb, and said 'this is consciousness. this is the creator of everything. consciousness, and everything else, comes from this.' that would be incorrect. So 'Shindra' is not consciousness, only a part. 'Shindra and SecretSeven and everything else is consciousness' is right. Consciousness can change to not include the character Shindra. That would then mean Shindra doesn't exist - not even as a memory or idea, if it was not in consciousness. Consciousness is all there is, and if that doesn't include Shindra, then Shindra is not.

[SecretSeven]

Ok, Steve said:

Steve said:

You and I cannot have conflicting thoughts because only you have thoughts. I do not have thoughts, nor does anyone else in your reality. You are the only thinker there is. Everything else is a manifestation of your thoughts, including the perception that other people have thoughts

So, in this conversation who is having the thoughts? You or I?

[Shindra]

Originally Posted by SecretSeven

Ok, Steve said:

Steve said:

You and I cannot have conflicting thoughts because only you have thoughts. I do not have thoughts, nor does anyone else in your reality. You are the only thinker there is. Everything else is a manifestation of your thoughts, including the perception that other people have thoughts

So, in this conversation who is having the thoughts? You or I?

"I am." That which is aware of being aware is. When the question is "you or I?" the answer is the latter.

[SecretSeven]

I am aware of being aware. You are aware of being aware. So we are both having thoughts?

[Shindra]

Originally Posted by SecretSeven

So we are both having thoughts?

No. To "are you having thoughts?" the answer is no. To "Am I having thoughts?" the answer is yes.

Subjectivese: "I am the only one having thoughts." think those words as if objectivian: you came up with them, because you did. You are the one 'dreaming up' all of this.
Objectivian: you are the only one having thoughts. Your real identity is the I which is having thoughts. The awareness. And there is only one.

[SecretSeven]

Are you (shindra) aware?

[Shindra]

Originally Posted by SecretSeven

I am aware of being aware. You are aware of being aware. So we are both having thoughts?

That is wrong. One should say "I am aware of being aware. No-one else are aware of being aware. There is no-one else, there is only I. Only I am having thoughts."

[Shindra]

Originally Posted by SecretSeven

Are you (shindra) aware?

No. Shindra is not self-aware.
Objectivian: The only awareness that exists is the one you can percieve.
Shindra is just a character awareness is creating.
Subjectivese: There is no 'you', 'out there', that can percieve, be aware of, anything. There is only the 'I', which is the one that awareness is now aware of. There is no 'out there'.

[SecretSeven]

In subjective reality, but that doesn't necessarily have to be true.

[SecretSeven]

Is secretseven aware?

[Shindra]

Originally Posted by SecretSeven

In subjective reality, but that doesn't necessarily have to be true.

You don't have to believe it. And since subjective reality is experientally subject to itself, if you don't believe it, you won't experience it, you won't feel it. What you believe, you will experience as true.

So, in subjective reality, it's not really about right or wrong - it's about what's the most empowering and joyous belief.

It's always a choice. In subjective reality, noone can take that away from awareness, because there is noone else.

Subjective reality allows any belief.

Yes, you're free to just walk away from all this if you will.

[SecretSeven]

I'm not sure what I believe in. Right now I'm just in the experimental phase of things. I'm researching different religions/belief systems. This one really seemed to catch my eye. You are confusing, yet very interesting to talk to, so I hope this conversation will keep going for a little longer.

[SecretSeven]

This is a repeat of a previous question I asked. But just incase you didn't see it, I'll ask again. You said that "Shindra" is not aware. Is "secretseven" aware?

[Shindra]

Originally Posted by SecretSeven

Is secretseven aware?

Awareness is aware of secretseven, not the other way around, so, no. Your thumb is not aware of you. Your eyes are not aware of you. If you look into a mirror, what you see there is just a projection. There's not really a seperate person in the mirror, a person who is aware. Awareness is that which sees the mirror, and the mirror only exists within awareness. A nickname that is 'Secretseven' can exist on a screen in awareness. A body named secretseven can exist within awareness. The person SecretSeven really exists within awareness, when it does - but not outside of it, not independent of it.

When you play a computer-game, the avatar on the screen is not aware.

Originally Posted by SecretSeven

This is a repeat of a previous question I asked. But just incase you didn't see it, I'll ask again. You said that "Shindra" is not aware. Is "secretseven" aware?

Slow down, I was responding to that. Just a tad more patience, if you please - this is a bulletin board, even though we're practically using it as a chat
I think this is the fastest thread in terms of response to posts I've ever been in, especially over such a long period of time

[SecretSeven]

You said that there cannot be more than one perspective in this reality. But you and I both have different percpectives. For example, you believe that subjective reality is true, and I am not sure if it is. Therefor, we are looking at the same issue(subjective reality) from two different perspectives. Since there is only one perspective, who's perspective is real? Shindra or SecretSeven's?

And please don't say "awareness" perspective lol. We've already established that lol sorry if I'm being rude.

[Holden McNeil]

Wow this thread's awesome. Love the replies here, I'm learning heaps. I'll offer my perspective on this to hopefully clear up any confusion (mostly for my own benefit too, hehe).

I loved that leaf/tree example by ethereal, btw.

SecretSeven, just think about this world here, like you would a dream at night. That's basically how I explain subjective reality to myself. If you saw another person in a dream, what would you think? They aren't a seperate person, with their own consciousness. They're just in your head, just as much as the "body" you're "walking" around in (which is also just a part of your imagination). I'm talking about a dream in this example.

So how do you know that right now, this isn't all in your head? That all the posts here, all the people writing them, Steve, his posts, the leaves on the trees outside, the breeze hitting them, time/space, everything... is all part of your consciousness, like it would be in a dream? When I say "in your head" btw, I'm not referring to you, SecretSeven, your ego's head. The person you're consciousness is sitting in right now... that's just a person, just like me, like ethereal, like Shindra, like everyone else (and everyTHING else). We're all, you included, leaves on the tree. Subjective reality is simply letting go of identifying yourself as SecretSeven, and all of us as seperate beings from you... and embracing the "dream", and saying that, like in a dream, you are really everything that exists, equally. So you're not just SecretSeven, you're him, and me, and Shindra, and ethereal, and this thread, and the computer, and Steve, and the mountains outside, and the clouds in the sky.

Hope that helps. I'm also just beginning to understand, and haven't completely accepted it as a default perspective.

Ciao!

[Shindra]

Originally Posted by SecretSeven

You said that there cannot be more than one perspective in this reality. But you and I both have different percpectives. For example, you believe that subjective reality is true, and I am not sure if it is. Therefor, we are looking at the same issue(subjective reality) from two different perspectives. Since there is only one perspective, who's perspective is real? Shindra or SecretSeven's?

And please don't say "awareness" perspective lol. We've already established that lol sorry if I'm being rude.

Okay, terminology problem. There can only be one oberver, one awareness, means only one perspective can be *experienced* at any one time. There can be several different 'ways of looking at things'. You can look this way, you can look that way. The possible perspectives only exist with the one awareness. The belief systems, and people who have them, only exist in the mind of the one.

You can write a fictional story wherein the characters believe certain things, have certain 'perspectives' of reality. Yet seperate perspectives are not being experienced at once. One is experienced, the others imagined.

[Shindra]

Originally Posted by Holden McNeil

Wow this thread's awesome. Love the replies here, I'm learning heaps. I'll offer my perspective on this to hopefully clear up any confusion (mostly for my own benefit too, hehe).

Wow, someone else is actually following this? We're on over 80 posts!

Thank you for your eloquent explanations, Holden

[SecretSeven]

Ok, which one of us is experiencing, and which one of us is imagining then? lol

[Holden McNeil]

Originally Posted by Shindra

Wow, someone else is actually in on this? We're on over 80 posts!

Thank you for your eloquent explanations, Holden

One leaf to another

[SecretSeven]

Thanks Holden...the one distinction is that in a dream there is only one thinking being and that is the dreamer. So, in order for this dream analogy to be true, it would mean that the only thinking thing in this reality is the dreamer(aka consciousness). In a dream, none of the characters except you are thinking. But in reality, we are all thinking. Wouldn't that contradict the whole idea of life being just a dream?

[Holden McNeil]

Originally Posted by SecretSeven

Ok, which one of us is experiencing, and which one of us is imagining then? lol

Nonono, think about it LIKE a dream. Use that as a way to explain it. In a dream, there's only your consciousness, and everyone/thing, including the body/ego you're walking around in... is all "you". So everything that happens, is all you too. If you had a dream at night where someone throws a pie at someone else, who did that? It's all you, isn't it?

[Shindra]

Originally Posted by SecretSeven

Ok, which one of us is experiencing, and which one of us is imagining then? lol

Dude. "find the answer within yourself." We've been over this before. But okay, speaking objectivian: you are the one experiencing, the only one.
Whomever is actually aware of these words is the one and only experiencer. The one that experiences reading the words, is the one. If you are aware of these words - congratulations, you won!