Help understanding what Steve means

[SecretSeven]

Hi Dan,

You said:

"Existence outside of your perception is not possible, as your perception is all that there is."

But doesn't every human being on the planet have their own perception?

[Shindra]

Originally Posted by SecretSeven

Again I am really sorry for the redundant nature of my questions. But you said: "You" are dream avatars. I am "every one of you". I don't quite understand what that means.

(I'll read over the Steve's post while I'm waiting)

I = awareness. Awareness is all there is. All that exists exists within awareness, and is so part of it the way lungs and heart are part of body.

If one speaks of a "you", one is most likely speaking of an avatar.

[SecretSeven]

So.....I am an avatar. Every human being on this planet is an avator. And you are awareness (the container inwhich all of this exists)?

[Shindra]

Originally Posted by SecretSeven

Hi Dan,

You said:

"Existence outside of your perception is not possible, as your perception is all that there is."

But doesn't every human being on the planet have their own perception?

according to sub-R, there is only one perception.

[SecretSeven]

Hi,

This is going to sound like a stupid question, but do you have a perception?

[Shindra]

Originally Posted by SecretSeven

So.....I am an avatar. Every human being on this planet is an avator. And you are awareness (the container inwhich all of this exists)?

No. I - the I - am not an avatar, I am awareness. 'You' are not awareness. See these words from a first-person perspective, as if they were spoken by you.
See the color coding? When it is blue, it is subjectivese(singular subjective reality, the is only one consciousness), "I" means awareness, not Shindra. See it as if you said those words. Say them in your mind as your own.
When it is red, it is objectivese (objectified reality, the language of people who believe in multiple consciousnesses) - 'one person speaking to another'. The way people usually communicate. Sorry, I thought that was understandable.

[Shindra]

Originally Posted by Dan.Linehan

What happens to someone outside of your reality doesn't matter, because it's not part of your experience.

I'd like to say, nothing happens outside of your reality/experience/awareness, it is not a matter of whether it matters, because 'it' doesn't exist. Something that doesn't exist cannot 'matter' or 'not matter'. However, if you think of someone, you are aware of them, they do matter.

[Dan.Linehan]

Originally Posted by SecretSeven

Hi Dan,

You said:

"Existence outside of your perception is not possible, as your perception is all that there is."

But doesn't every human being on the planet have their own perception?

No, in your experience only you have your own perception.

Please stop worrying about my experience, it's taken care of. If you want to create your own reality you should worry about just that, your own reality.

[SecretSeven]

In your words: "I'd like to say, nothing happens outside of your reality/experience/awareness, it is not a matter of whether it matters, because 'it' doesn't exist. Something that doesn't exist cannot 'matter' or 'not matter'. However, if you think of someone, you are aware of them, they do matter."

See that's where it all gets confusing for me. How could someone just pop out of existence when I'm not thinking of them? I've been taught that everyone exists whether I'm thinking of them or not. So, when I leave my friend's house, they continue to go on with their daily lives...or atleast that's how I've always thought of it.

[Dan.Linehan]

Originally Posted by SecretSeven

How could someone just pop out of existence when I'm not thinking of them?

Because your perception is all there is in your reality.

[SecretSeven]

Hi Dan,

Yes but there are 6 billion people on the planet, with 6 billion seperate realites. My point is that if I'm not thinking of them, then someone else inevitabely is. So, wouldn't they still exist if I'm not thinking about them? Because other people are interacting and thinking about them even if I'm not aware of it.

[Hayer]

Secret Seven, this conversation is so interesting to me, too. I’m loving this dialogue and the questions you’ve brought up, and the responses.

I hope I don’t add any confusion but here’s my take on it:

The way I’ve heard it described is that what is looking through my eyes is the same awareness that is looking through your eyes and the eyes of every other living thing. This is the real “you.” I’ve heard Steve Pavlina say that consciousness is like the programmer and you (small you/the leaf on the tree) is like a character in a video game.

So from the real “you” perspective, none of the other billions of bodies/consciousnesses exist, and neither does yours--we’re all characters in a game/dream. But the real “you” does exist and is streaming though everyone’s eyes--yours, mine, etc. continuously creating the game/dream. (I don’t think Steve Pavlina is saying that other humans aren’t conscious, or that they disappear from existence when you’re not aware of them.)

[Shindra]

Originally Posted by SecretSeven

In your words: "I'd like to say, nothing happens outside of your reality/experience/awareness, it is not a matter of whether it matters, because 'it' doesn't exist. Something that doesn't exist cannot 'matter' or 'not matter'. However, if you think of someone, you are aware of them, they do matter."

See that's where it all gets confusing for me. How could someone just pop out of existence when I'm not thinking of them? I've been taught that everyone exists whether I'm thinking of them or not. So, when I leave my friend's house, they continue to go on with their daily lives...or atleast that's how I've always thought of it.

If you think that someone exists when you're not thinking of them, you cannot at the same time think they don't exist when you're not thinking of them. Try letting go. Try thinking in the way of sub-r. Try moving into that perspective. "If I believed this, how would I think?"

How can somone pop out of existence? There is no how, there is no method to it. How can you dream? How can you dream up houses, and people? How can you dream of a forest? Disbeliever:"What, you're saying that when you sleep, a whole.. a whole world just pops into existence in your consciousness? That you can 'make' a whole forest, with all those trees, in your mind, at once, just like that? Ridiculous!" How can you wake from a dream, and have that dream be gone? "That dragon I dreamed of last night, it still exists! It's lying in it's cave, guarding it's treasure as we speak! And when I go to bed tonight and dream, I might meet it again." no. When you go to sleep, you might dream of the same things again.

[SecretSeven]

Hi Hayer,

That makes so much sense to me. I think it's more of a spiritual question than anything. If I understood correctly, we all come from one consciousness. We are all having seperate experiences, but are essentially the same.

[Shindra]

Originally Posted by SecretSeven

if I'm not thinking of them, then someone else inevitabely is.

according to singular subjective reality:
no they're not. There is nobody else.

[SecretSeven]

Hi Shindra,

Ok, well I have a question for you. Did you exist a week ago? Did you have an experience last week? Because if what you are saying were true, then your ego, or self would not have existed a week ago, because you were not in my awareness......

[Shindra]

Originally Posted by Hayer

(I don’t think Steve Pavlina is saying that other humans aren’t conscious, or that they disappear from existence when you’re not aware of them.)

I think he does. If I can dig out a quote, I'll edit it into this post.

here it is:

Originally Posted by http://www.stevepavlina.com/blog/2006/05/subjective-reality-qa/

So within a subjective belief system, are other people conscious like me too?
People are not conscious. Only consciousness is conscious. So in a sense, there are no other conscious people. There is only one consciousness, and all the people you perceive exist within it. And that consciousness is who and what you are. There’s only one consciousness, so there’s only one you.

In the physical universe, you can go around counting the human bodies you perceive. And you’ll find lots of them. But how many consciousnesses can you detect? Count them, and you will find you can perceive only one.

So I’m the only one who’s conscious?

Yes, you are.

If you identify with your physical body-mind, you will likely assume that your conscious awareness is something going on within your mind or your head. Hence you assume that all the other bodies you perceive also “have” a consciousness like yours, one that is separate from yours. You assume you cannot perceive other people’s conscious minds because it’s something going on inside their heads too.

But all of that is just a delusion. It’s an erroneous assumption.

The reality is that you are indeed the only one who’s conscious. But that YOU who’s conscious isn’t your body-mind. Your body-mind as well as all the other bodies you perceive exist within your consciousness. There’s only one consciousness, and that is your real identity. Everything else exists within you. That’s why you perceive only one consciousness. That’s the only consciousness that exists.

[Dan.Linehan]

Originally Posted by SecretSeven

Hi Dan,

Yes but there are 6 billion people on the planet, with 6 billion seperate realites. My point is that if I'm not thinking of them, then someone else inevitabely is. So, wouldn't they still exist if I'm not thinking about them? Because other people are interacting and thinking about them even if I'm not aware of it.

You could believe that things and people exist outside of your awareness. Or you could believe that people and things don't exist outside of your awareness.

Either way you'd be basing it on faith, since you can't experience anything beyond your own awareness.

[Shindra]

Originally Posted by SecretSeven

Hi Shindra,

Ok, well I have a question for you. Did you exist a week ago? Did you have an experience last week? Because if what you are saying were true, then your ego, or self would not have existed a week ago, because you were not in my awareness......

There is only now. The past is only something you are aware of in the now. Nobody exists in the past. The past doesn't exist. It is only a projection. Steve talks about this in podcast "the true nature of reality".

You are continually, in the eternal moment of now, creating experiences, and continually creating corresponding memories, and you are creating history. Nobody existed a week ago, or a minute ago. Nothing exists but right now. The past is gone. Noone exists in the past - the closest you can get is to focus on memories. Awareness has memories of the past, of a week ago, of something an avatar did a week ago. But those memories exist only in the now.

In objectivian - a week ago, I(shindra) was just a possibility. 1/6 billion.

Shindra didn't exist before awareness created Shindra.

[SecretSeven]

So, basically what you're saying is that you didn't exist until I became aware of you yesterday (yesterday being objective).

[SecretSeven]

Dan,

Do you believe I exist when you are not thinking/aware of me?

[Shindra]

Originally Posted by SecretSeven

So, basically what you're saying is that you didn't exist until I became aware of you yesterday (yesterday being objective).

That's true You've got it.

[Dan.Linehan]

@secretseven

I think we would agree that we didn't exist in each other's awarenesses until we started speaking to each other, right?

The question you need to ask yourself is whether you want to believe that your own awareness is all there is. It's your choice.

If you believe that your own awareness is all there is whether I did or didn't exist before we met doesn't matter.

[SecretSeven]

Ok Shindra, I'll turn the question around. Did I exist before I started speaking to you and before you became aware of me?

[Dan.Linehan]

Originally Posted by SecretSeven

Do you believe I exist when you are not thinking/aware of me?

I don't believe one way or the other. I only think about what's in my reality at the moment, and what I want there to be in my reality in the future.

[SecretSeven]

Shindra, despite what you're saying, I'm sure that you have a history and a background that existed prior to our interaction......lol.......?

[Shindra]

Originally Posted by SecretSeven

Ok, I'll turn the question around. Did I exist before I started speaking to you and before you became aware of me?

It was a lot easier to use the word true when you used the word "you"

Let's see. SecretSeven did not exist before awareness became aware of SecretSeven. SecretSeven did not exist before awareness of the same. Awareness=existence. Existence equals awareness. Unawareness=unexistent.

'Shindra' and 'SecretSeven' are not aware. Egos are not aware. Shindra and SecretSeven exist independently of each other - but not independently of awareness. Right now, the I is/am aware of Shindra and SecretSeven, therefore they exist. Should awareness move unto something else, they would cease to exist.

Objectivian: only you exist. Only what you are aware of exists.

Subjectivese: "Only I exist. You did not exist before I created you as a person who writes forum posts. I became aware of you the moment I read your post, which is the same moment you came into existence."
If awareness has centered it's perspective within SecretSeven: "Only I exist. Shindra did not exist before I created Shindra as a person who writes forum posts. I became aware of Shindra the moment I read Shindra's post, which is the same moment Shindra came into existence."

[SecretSeven]

Wow can you say "Babel" lol.......that is soooo confusing..no offense lol. But I really don't understand that hmm maybe you could simplify it

[Shindra]

Originally Posted by SecretSeven

Shindra, despite what you're saying, I'm sure that you have a history and a background that existed prior to our interaction......lol.......?

Shindra has a history and and background, but that history only exists now. Like a book you've just written (instantaneously).

Try imagining a character. Any fictional character. Someone older than a child. Imagine some history they have. Imagine their childhood. Just come up with someone. There, you created a person that exists within imaginary/mental reality. That person only exists within your consciousness.

If you don't want to believe in subjective reality, or have it explained more, you'll have to say so, or Shindra will probably keep writing these posts.

I'd like to believe in subjective reality because of the emotions my experience would then take on - free of fear, ("living without fear is more wonderful than you can possibly imagine" -Steve), full of the feelings of oneness, joy and love, like I(shindra) have only experienced briefly in meditation.

[SecretSeven]

Hey Shindra,

Are you saying that you are a fictional character? If so, am I a fictional character as well?

Also, could you please explain subjective reality a bit more. Do you believe in subjective reality?