Do other people think?

[SecretSeven]

From what I've read, it seems that Steve is suggesting other people on this planet don't have the ability to think. Is he saying that there is only one thinking being on this planet and it's me? Somehow I find that hard to agree with. For example, this is what he said: "You and I cannot have conflicting thoughts because only you have thoughts. I do not have thoughts, nor does anyone else in your reality. You are the only thinker there is. " How could that be? Is he denying his own existence?

[impaul99]

Originally Posted by SecretSeven

From what I've read, it seems that Steve is suggesting other people on this planet don't have the ability to think. Is he saying that there is only one thinking being on this planet and it's me? Somehow I find that hard to agree with. For example, this is what he said: "You and I cannot have conflicting thoughts because only you have thoughts. I do not have thoughts, nor does anyone else in your reality. You are the only thinker there is. " How could that be? Is he denying his own existence?

Two possibilities for you to consider:

(1) Imagine having a dream. In that dream there are three people standing in your house and one of them has a knife. They are about 10 feet away from you. Two feet behind you there is a gun that they don't know about. You stand there thinking about the possibility of grabbing the gun to defend yourself, as you keep an eye on the three intruders who are eyeing you. You stand there for what seems like an eternity with thoughts racing through your head.

You wake up. Ok, now ask yourself, did the people in your dream know about the gun? Meaning, it's YOUR dream, supposedly happening in YOUR head, so they would know what you're thinking at the same time as you're thinking it right? They obviously know about the gun. But maybe not. You're creating them, and you can "hear" your own thoughts as this unfolds, but you don't "hear" their thoughts, you can only guess what they are thinking based on the actions they take in your dream.

So ask yourself - Do the people in my dreams have thoughts? But it's all happening in my head, so are they then my thoughts? If they don't have thoughts, then why do they seem just as real as the people in my normal life? If they do have thoughts, how come I can't hear them since they are really my own thoughts?

(2) Consider that you are not your thinking mind, but rather the consciousness behind your thinking mind. Pretend that you and Steve are in a room sitting down and having coffee. You are BOTH the same consciousness, and that consciousness is thinking thoughts in BOTH your heads, supposedly seperately, but actually the thoughts come from the same source. Your consciousness projects 2 bodies (you and Steve) and creates seperation between the two bodies, but they are actually the same consciousness. So when the true consciousness THINKS a thought that it wants Steve to think, Steve's brain receives that thought, and when consciousness THINKS a thought that it wants YOU to think, your brain receives that thought.

It's like a multi-player game where you control more than one person.


Anyway, I'm not saying those are correct assumptions. I'm just giving you some hints towards the kind of thinking/questioning you have to do in order to understand the Subjective Reality model better. These kinds of questions will lead you down the path to answers you feel are correct.

Maybe Steve can offer some additional insight.

[Erock]

^ Beautiful post. Excellent analysis of subjective reality and those viewpoints of the world. I really appreciated it and I'm sure the original poster did too.

Erock

[SecretSeven]

Thanks for the reply, it was very indepth. I have another question. So when I'm not thinking of Steve, does he exist? Is he living his life somewhere else in the world? Or does he just exist when I think of him? This may sound a little strange, but I'm trying to understand the whole idea of subjective reality the best way I can.

[impaul99]

Originally Posted by SecretSeven

Thanks for the reply, it was very indepth. I have another question. So when I'm not thinking of Steve, does he exist? Is he living his life somewhere else in the world? Or does he just exist when I think of him? This may sound a little strange, but I'm trying to understand the whole idea of subjective reality the best way I can.

Two possible schools of thought on that...
(1) Steve only exists when he's actively in your consciousness. As soon as you are not thinking/seeing/conscious of him, he "disappears" and if lets say 2 years later you think about him again, the illusion that there was "time in between" is only maintained because there appears to be progress in his life since the last time you saw him.

For example, lets say you drop off your friend at the airport and he's wearing a white shirt. He flies to Hawaii. Now, in reality your friend just "disappears" as soon as you're not seeing him anymore, and then a week later when you pick him up he "re-appears" at the airport since you're there. However, if he was still in his white shirt when he "re-appeared" it might be weird, and if nothing else changed, it might be weird. So, to create the illusion that he was persistantly existing in between the time you dropped him off and picked him up, you would "re-create" his appearance as slightly sunburnt, wearing a Hawaii shirt and bringing back souvenirs. In reality, there was no Hawaii trip for him. He just phased in/out of existance when you dropped him off and picked him up.

That's one possibility. Second one is this:

(2) Your friend does continue to exist. Steve DOES continue to exist even when you are not thinking/seeing him. In fact 6 billion people continue to lead lives whether or not you are consciously aware/unaware of them.

So, your friend DID go to Hawaii, and he DID actually get sunburnt and he DID get souvenirs and a Hawaii shirt etc.

This would be the possibility which most closely matches with what the "normal" way of thinking is in the world anyways. So how does subjective reality differ in this scenario from "normal" way of thinking?

Well, the way it differs is simply in the context that there is only NOW. There is no future, there is no past. Meaning, your concsciousness (which is the ONLY consciousness) is broken up into at least 6 billion parts which make up the earth's population. This consciousness is experiencing every human being's life as it stands right now. Meaning, this moment, someone out there is probably making love, someone is dying, someone is crying, someone is laughing, someone is cooking brown rice, someone is washing dishes, etc. All of this happens right now in this moment in time.

All of the memories, ambitions, thoughts and desires of everyone's little seperate entities is being experienced by the one consciousness at the same time, right NOW. However, besides the reality of that being close to "normal thinking" (objective), nothing else is the same. Meaning, if the "one consciousness" wanted to no longer experience poverty in Africa, it could "change" the NOW to no longer have that and everyone in Africa would no longer be starving for food.

But what about us here in North America then? Wouldn't we all of a sudden realize that something in Africa actually changed? Nope. Because our memory of Africa would change along with that as well. Meaning, we would simply remember tomorrow "What hunger in Africa? There hasn't been hunger there for 500 years." or something like that. Now, concsiousness would have to "ALTER" the reality of a lot of people in earth to pull of a change like that, but in reality making such a change is done INSTANTLY because matter doesn't actually exist OUT THERE, and neither do thoughts and memories.

So, for example, technically speaking, a moment ago there could have been another continent on earth called "TRITAN", and that continent could have been full of people. This moment, consciousness could decide "Nah, I'm bored with TRITAN" and it could just NUKE that continent out of existance and any memory of it.

Remember, all the history books in all the libraries and all the "hard proof" of TRITAN actually existing would be wiped as well, because they are all part of consciousness.

Anyway, those are 2 possible scenario's to start. I'm not saying either one is correct. I'm just presenting you with a few points of view on the kind of thinking you have to become comfortable with to understand subjective reality.

In the end, the model you come up with for yourself that works will have to fit with your life and will be based on your personal experience. The questions I ask myself when debating which model works are:

(1) Does this model make sense from my EXPERIENCE of reality? Or is it more just the illusion of a logical way things should work according to my logical mind?

and

(2) If this model is the correct model, does it EMPOWER me or DISEMPOWER me in my life?


I try to stick to models that work for my experience and that empower me. If a model of reality depresses you and makes you want to curl up in the fetal position and stare at the wall, it's probably better to stay away from it. If that model empowers you, makes you want to help the world and makes you take responsibility for your own destiny, it's probably a better model to work with.

One thing is for sure. You're probably not going to solve this puzzle overnight. It takes time to come up with a model that you can believe in, and then as you experience life all of a sudden you get small course corrections, and you adjust your model. The SINGLE PLAYER / MULTI PLAYER debate went on for a while in my mind before I settled on an answer.

Hope this helps

[SecretSeven]

Wow, thanks for the reply! I'm starting to understand it better. Out of the two scenarios, I think the second one is more probable. I think people exist whether they are in my consciousness or not. The fact that you are thinking and responding to posts is proof that life exists outside my ego. You've given me different scenarios, but which one do you believe in?

Hope to hear back from you

[impaul99]

Originally Posted by SecretSeven

Wow, thanks for the reply! I'm starting to understand it better. Out of the two scenarios, I think the second one is more probable. I think people exist whether they are in my consciousness or not. The fact that you are thinking and responding to posts is proof that life exists outside my ego. You've given me different scenarios, but which one do you believe in?

Hope to hear back from you

My personal belief changes, or rather evolves on an almost daily basis. Therefore, by the time you read this post, I may already have evolved my beliefs even if you read this 5 minutes after I write it. Secondly, a lot of my beliefs are rooted in other beliefs I have so it's kind of hard to explain it all in one post, or even to reduce it to text. Maybe I'll consider writing it out in an article on my blog.

In the meantime, I can give you some hints as to what I've discovered to be personally true for me:

(1) The Multiplayer model seems to be much more probable for me. Meaning, I believe in ONE consciousness, split up into MULTIPLE seperate consciousnesses.

(2) I believe in ONE EGO, split up into MULTIPLE seperate ego's.

(3) Each of the 6 billion people on earth has the ability to transcend their portion of ego and thus has the capacity to affect all ego's. One way to think about it is that each of us is 1/6 billionth of an the overall ego. When Steve overcomes an ego fear for example, then that fear is fixed in 1/6billionth of the overall ego. When Steve helps another person to overcome that same fear, now 2/6 billion people overcome that fear.

(4) Each 1/6 billionth of the overall ego automatically affects every ego. So technically speaking, when Steve overcomes a part of his ego, a small (1/6 billionth of my ego overcomes that fear too). So, working on myself actually works on a small part of everyone else.

It doesn't exactly work that way mathematically, but more or less the concept is that Steve or You or anyone else has the ability to affect those around them directly at the core consciousness level.

Have you ever noticed that when you overcome an issue in your life, a short while later everyone in your life that had that same issue no longer exists?


Anyway, these are just snippets of my thinking. Some of them evolve and change over time as I "test" their validity in reality and as I read books and such. My latest discovery that really helped me out was discovering that EGO exists at the level of conscousness, so when we go through biological death it doesn't mean we become perfectly enlightened spirits. We still very much cling onto our ego's as we transition from this world to the next, and depending on your beliefs into our future incarnations.

[Erock]

You guys should read I Am That. It is an amazing book, and it is along these lines.

Erock