What is the Point of Thinking of Reality as a Dream?

[Boldnut]

I'm on 2nd week of Subjective Reality Trial right now. To motivate and inspire myself to take daily visualization exercises related to the trial, I listed pros of the trial:
- A chance to find more effective view on reality, which would give clarity and grounding.
- As a side effect I will raise my vibrations and become happier.
- Being around and communicating with other people will become more enjoyable. Also I'll get less annoyed with annoying people if I see them as part of me.

Before starting I tried to think of reasons I should see this world as a dream, but I couldn't think of any. Decided to start anyway. Now a week passed, but nothing came to mind. I would sometimes try to hold a thought "I'm dreaming; This is a nice dream world out there; blah blah blah..." Honestly it did nothing to me. So what is the point of seeing the physical reality as a dream?

[danas]

The way I understand it it's about seeing everything as part of you.
Let's say in a dream you see a baby crying- you know it's not about the baby but about your inner child longing for attendiom, or you are feeling vulnerable etc..
If you are faced with obstacles in a dream it may be symbolic of real life obstacles in your mind etc.. Change your mind and there will no longer be obstacles.
If you see life as a dream that means u are aware that you can change the reality of the dream just by changing the way you think and your state of beingness.
It's about seeing everyone as a reflection of your psyche

[ButterflyWoman]

The question of "what's the point" is what you're going to find out through the trial, presumably. That's what doing the trial is about, isn't it?

As for my own perspective, seeing reality as a dream allows for a kind of detachment (in a positive sense) that can't be achieved when I take it all as solidly "real" (whatever that's supposed to mean ).

Also, when you become lucid within a dream, at first all you can do is observe with conscious awareness. With time and practice, and one you adjust to the dream environment, you learn how to make changes in that environment. (Erin has some really interesting articles on lucid dreaming in her blog; you might want to read them to see what I'm talking about).

If you can do this in a sleeping dream, then if waking life is also a dream, you can learn to manipulate it, just as you can with a sleeping dream, or so claim proponents of reality creation (a subject in which I've been interested for a long time).

[Curtis2011]

Originally Posted by Boldnut

What is the Point of Thinking of Reality as a Dream?

Less fear.

[Angela]

Oh, no real point ...unless you value limitless, choice, opportunity, freedom....

[Boldnut]

Thank your for opinions, I would love to see more, especially by people who tried to see the world that way (theoretical ponderings are ok too).

[James81]

Originally Posted by Boldnut

Thank your for opinions, I would love to see more, especially by people who tried to see the world that way (theoretical ponderings are ok too).

I use it as a perspective. I don't use it all the time, but there are times when it just sort of clicks with me..."Hey, James, try on the possibility that this is just a dream and see what happens."

And when I do that, in those moments, I feel more connected with the people who are around and with me.

I think it's one way of accessing connection and compassion, as well as understanding and empathy for the people who blip onto the radar of your experience.

[cylon]

You won't really see it as a dream until you have experiences that confirm it is a dream. So right now I wouldn't worry too much about the benefits, either way. But if you want to go deeper, keep reminding yourself it is a dream.

I think eventually, something will happen to you that will completely shake your reality and in that moment you'll know what to do next. But until that happens, the only benefit I can see of thinking life is a dream is that repetition will eventually lead to your first genuine experience, OF the dream.

This is not something you think about, it's something you experience. Thought pushes the experience away. So just thinking "this is a dream, this is a dream" is sufficient. Don't complicate it or make it more "meaningful" than that.

Because ultimately it should be fun.

[SethWilliams]

Originally Posted by Boldnut

I'm on 2nd week of Subjective Reality Trial right now. To motivate and inspire myself to take daily visualization exercises related to the trial, I listed pros of the trial:
- A chance to find more effective view on reality, which would give clarity and grounding.
- As a side effect I will raise my vibrations and become happier.
- Being around and communicating with other people will become more enjoyable. Also I'll get less annoyed with annoying people if I see them as part of me.

Before starting I tried to think of reasons I should see this world as a dream, but I couldn't think of any. Decided to start anyway. Now a week passed, but nothing came to mind. I would sometimes try to hold a thought "I'm dreaming; This is a nice dream world out there; blah blah blah..." Honestly it did nothing to me. So what is the point of seeing the physical reality as a dream?

What's the point of seeing physical reality as not a dream?

Seems rather limited. Unless your default "objective" reality is one of where you are limit-less and have an abundance of opportunities that offer excitement, variety and freedom.

Love Seth

[Excellent Lodestar]

Originally Posted by Boldnut

So what is the point of seeing the physical reality as a dream?

I think it allows us to not take anything, especially ourselves, so seriously. Usually when we're believing our stressful thoughts

[Gene]

It's useful to think of everything as a dream even if ultimately you/I choose to see the world through a different lens.

[Boldnut]

Originally Posted by CaterpillarWoman

The question of "what's the point" is what you're going to find out through the trial, presumably. That's what doing the trial is about, isn't it?

It isn't I separate subjective reality and being in a dream as not the same thing. Subjective reality = your beliefs control the world around you. Being in a dream = trying to grasp in this thread.

[Boldnut]

Originally Posted by cylon

You won't really see it as a dream until you have experiences that confirm it is a dream. So right now I wouldn't worry too much about the benefits, either way. But if you want to go deeper, keep reminding yourself it is a dream.

I think eventually, something will happen to you that will completely shake your reality and in that moment you'll know what to do next. But until that happens, the only benefit I can see of thinking life is a dream is that repetition will eventually lead to your first genuine experience, OF the dream.

This is not something you think about, it's something you experience. Thought pushes the experience away. So just thinking "this is a dream, this is a dream" is sufficient. Don't complicate it or make it more "meaningful" than that.

Because ultimately it should be fun.

Thanks man for advice, few days ago I formed a short write up of auto-suggestion to read before sleep and in the morning ("Think and Grow Rich" style) and I included "the world around me is a dream existing in my consciousness" I'll also be sure to remind it to myself constantly during the day and get to experience it.

I am also thinking about learning Lucid Dreaming. From Steve's blog I've got the idea that it might be a helpful tool in this case.

[Boldnut]

Originally Posted by Gene

It's useful to think of everything as a dream even if ultimately you/I choose to see the world through a different lens.

It's good to hear you are voting positively, though you could also write why

[escapeplan]

For real growth you could accept you are living in the real world not a dream. That way you wouldn't need to hide behind the idea of a dream in order to push the boundaries of life.

But, if you need the comfort blanket I guess that's cool too.

[escapeplan]

Originally Posted by cylon

For real growth you could accept you are living in a dream, not the "real world". That way you wouldn't need to hide behind the idea of the "real world" in order to push the boundaries of life.

But, if you need the comfort blanket I guess that's cool too.

It's true of course, but why deny the world is real? It doesn't mean LOA and the spiritual elements are false if we accept we are flesh and blood (even if it does all boil down to energy at the end of the day). I also don't see the problems of accepting human limitation. We are not experiencing life in a purely spiritual realm so why make out we are?

[cylon]

I deleted my post, but obviously not before you saw it.

So, I take it back.

[sonde]

Originally Posted by Boldnut

I would sometimes try to hold a thought "I'm dreaming; This is a nice dream world out there; blah blah blah..." Honestly it did nothing to me. So what is the point of seeing the physical reality as a dream?

Dreaming is being lost in thought/thought-images/imagination is it not?

A dream is thought to be, likewise with the world. The world is not actually being, it is passing by from future to past, or not-being - being dreamed.

The dream world is not "out there". "Out there" is part of the dream. Any time we think we are not dreaming, we are. Thought is dreaming. Thought is useful within the dream world for 'rearranging' dream objects, including the dream object of 'yourself'.

Any time you think of yourself you have dreamt up a dream self.

This does not mean that you are not, it just means that you cannot really be thought about, defined.

[cylon]

Originally Posted by sonde

Any time you think of yourself you have dreamt up a dream self.

I agree with this. The key is that we are only "here" when we believe we are. If we aren't aware of ourselves, we are just pure... whatever. Light, nothingness, vibration, nothing physical, nothing seen. But part of awareness thinks "what if I was a human with a body?" and then here we are, experiencing that "what if".

But it's still just a what if. Just like a dream is a what if. Not a reality, just one of many possibilities.

[JeffistheAnswer]

Lately I've been doing my own 30-day trial of subjective reality. To me, I feel more empowered to create my reality. I feel happier and more at peace with myself and with the world around me. I think this is reason enough for me to keep going with it,until I find an even more empowering belief.

[escapeplan]

Originally Posted by Angela

Oh, no real point ...unless you value limitless, choice, opportunity, freedom....

You need a dream for that?

[Angela]

Originally Posted by escapeplan

You need a dream for that?

who said anything about *need*?

[munish]

Try to live in dream world reality for atleast 30 days to get the best results.

[Betrade]

I don't believe that life is a dream at all nor do I even remotely believe in subjective reality.

If life is a dream then what is the "real world", "where" is it and why not be in the real world if it's something different than the one you're actually in?? Why is the "dream world a better place to inhabit than the "real" world and why stay in the dream world 99.9% of the time?? What would even be the point of that??

I also thought about this whole SR thing from another perspective. I knew a guy who was murdered at the age of 23. He didn't "create" his murder. He just happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time. He fought back; trying to stay alive, but he didn't manage to do so. The LAST thing he wanted was to die, or "create" his own demise at the hands of some evil punk.

The scumbag criminal who robbed and killed him created that situation (planned in advance/premeditated) and he's still in prison where he belongs. The victims parents wanted him dead. If they had gotten their way he would be dead, but that was out of their hands, which tells me that they too were unable to have the outcome that they would have chosen to "create" despite their deep seated wishes. All of them would have gladly pulled the trigger, or pushed the plunger of the needle, or turned on the electricity, but they couldn't.

The victim definitely had no desire to be murdered and there's no way he would have chosen that outcome had he been able to make that choice. He had way too much to live for and the idea that he created his own death is preposterous and downright insulting to his loved ones. Thank God no one's ever approached them and told them that he did.

There's also the whole idea that if SR is true, that I, or whomever else is the "creator" created the entire universe. My questions are, "Oh yeah, if that's so, then how exactly did you go about it"? "Can you do it again and show me how it's done"?? What is gravity? (if you created it then you should know how to answer that quite easily). What exactly happens after death, why does light travel at the speed it does and what exactly is the purpose for it moving?? Why doesn't it just stand still like so many other things?

There are millions of questions and many are way more simple than my few examples; but the point is, if anyone truly believes that they created everything and every situation then they should be able to explain all of the mysteries of the universe very easily. Knowledge is a key ingredient in creation; not in every case, but to create anything remotely complex, knowledge is required. If that knowledge to create everything exists than why doesn't everyone know everything??

After all, if creating reality can be done by we (or even one) puny humans with our incredibly puny, limited and finite brains, then it should be pretty easy to explain how it all works and why. But, no one has come along yet to explain even some of the most basic mysteries of the reality that we inhabit throughout all of known human history.

Recorded history didn't even start until about 8- 10,000 years ago as far as we know, yet SR proponents seem to believe that they have created every single thing, every situation, the laws of the universe/physics, nature, life, death, every atom and the rules that control them, stars, planets, all living and non living things,etc. I just cannot logically buy into it and IMO it's blatantly obvious that it can't be true. It just seems like a really easy way to explain away the mysteries of existence and not have to worry about the actual answers. It takes a huge burden of proof off of whomever buys into the theory and puts them in a position where they can just say to someone else; "You created this situation" without having to explain why, or even more importantly; HOW.


But deep down we all know that there are trillions of things that we don't know and may never know. In fact, if you think of all the things that CAN be known as compared to what we DO know, it's not too hard to see that we don't know squat and that there are way more unanswered questions than answered ones.

Those who believe in SR are surely free to go on seeing the world that way but IMO, you're only fooling yourselves. I'm not trying to burst any bubbles, insult anyone or mess up anyone's view of reality but I know without a doubt that I didn't create the universe or anything in it; except for my kids, and I have no real idea or true understanding of how that miraculous occurrence actually works; the creation of an actual sentient, rational, living being. I know HOW it happened but have no idea exactly why it works and I don't believe that anyone really does. That's why it's called the miracle of birth.

I also know beyond a shadow of a doubt that I'm not God. I can't believe that people walk around claiming that they are when they have no control over most things and have no idea when or how they're going to die; among other things. They can't explain why light travels at 186,000 miles per second yet also claim that they're God who created everything. How can that type of belief; claiming to have created all that is, yet not being able to even begin to answer a few basic questions about it even be reconciled?? It shouldn't take more than about 3 or 4 seconds for anyone to realize that they haven't created everything because they have no clue as to how or why most things even work.

Now if any SR believers find this post a bit annoying or bothersome; don't blame me, because according to SR, you created this opinion/post yourself so I'm not even responsible for it; you are. I'm completely off the hook and there's probably no reason to even respond because this post is your own creation. In fact, it's really another facet of your own opinion and/or belief.

Sure, our choices and actions create some, if not most of our circumstances and outcomes but certainly not all. That's just basic cause and effect and most 5-6 year olds can grasp that simple concept.

But, if you ask the people who lost loved ones on 911 (or any other tragedy) if they "chose" to be in that position on that particular day or if they "created" those attacks; not only would they likely be highly hurt, insulted and extremely offended at the very idea, they would probably be very angry that anyone would even suggest such a thing. The truth is that the people who did the attacking are the ones who "chose" to carry it out by an act of their own free will. Everyone else were victims. That's precisely why they're called victims.

So, that's my 2 cents on SR. I personally think it's a complete self delusion; albeit a convenient and easy way to explain what we couldn't otherwise begin to explain; because in reality, we don't know WAY, WAY more than we do know. If we already knew everything about everything and we created everything; then we wouldn't have to even bother to learn anything would we?? What would be the point of learning what you already inherently know?? Where di you originally learn it in order to create the current reality?? This argument can go round and round and on and on.

[munish]

Originally Posted by Betrade

you're only fooling yourselves.

Thanks for this insight ,i did not know that.

[Angela]

Originally Posted by Betrade

...the point is, if anyone truly believes that they created everything and every situation then they should be able to explain all of the mysteries of the universe very easily. Knowledge is a key ingredient in creation; not in every case, but to create anything remotely complex, knowledge is required. If that knowledge to create everything exists than why doesn't everyone know everything??

Betrade, I don't believe there's any reason why you should think any differently than you do, and I'm not interested in convincing you of anything. I'm just noticing that your questions here have been addressed in the forums at length, with particular clarity from Acting Like Godot, so if you're authentically interested in knowing the answers, you might want to take a look at his concise explanations -- especially on the subject quoted here. (It kind of sounds like you've made up your mind, though.)

[cylon]

Originally Posted by Betrade

There are millions of questions and many are way more simple than my few examples; but the point is, if anyone truly believes that they created everything and every situation then they should be able to explain all of the mysteries of the universe very easily. Knowledge is a key ingredient in creation; not in every case, but to create anything remotely complex, knowledge is required. If that knowledge to create everything exists than why doesn't everyone know everything??

Because the ego doesn't create. The ego is created. Whatever created the ego is what creates.

This whole time you've been lashing out against solipsism, not subjective reality.

But I assumed it was the way you describe, too at first. So it's normal to still think in terms of physical body/physical brain where all the thoughts are.

As long as you believe in the physical world as separate from the unseen world this will never make sense to you.

This isn't a "thinking" thing, it's a feeling and experiencing thing. Very hard to put into words, but you can "point" to it.

[moonrambler]

There's also some mix-up going on between SR and LoA, which are not the same thing.

Originally Posted by Betrade

I also thought about this whole SR thing from another perspective. I knew a guy who was murdered at the age of 23. He didn't "create" his murder. He just happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time. He fought back; trying to stay alive, but he didn't manage to do so. The LAST thing he wanted was to die, or "create" his own demise at the hands of some evil punk.

The scumbag criminal who robbed and killed him created that situation (planned in advance/premeditated) and he's still in prison where he belongs. The victims parents wanted him dead. If they had gotten their way he would be dead, but that was out of their hands, which tells me that they too were unable to have the outcome that they would have chosen to "create" despite their deep seated wishes. All of them would have gladly pulled the trigger, or pushed the plunger of the needle, or turned on the electricity, but they couldn't.

The victim definitely had no desire to be murdered and there's no way he would have chosen that outcome had he been able to make that choice. He had way too much to live for and the idea that he created his own death is preposterous and downright insulting to his loved ones. Thank God no one's ever approached them and told them that he did.

See, Betrade, in the SR model, the murdered guy didn't create the situation -- you did, and none of it's real. It's an illusion, a dream. The murdered guy is part of you, part of your illusion, the way other people in your sleep-dreams are part of you even though they seem completely real and separate.

[Betrade]

Originally Posted by moonrambler

There's also some mix-up going on between SR and LoA, which are not the same thing.



See, Betrade, in the SR model, the murdered guy didn't create the situation -- you did, and none of it's real. It's an illusion, a dream. The murdered guy is part of you, part of your illusion, the way other people in your sleep-dreams are part of you even though they seem completely real and separate.

Oh yeah; well tell his wife and kids that his death was just an illusion and see what they have to say about it. But you better be prepared to duck or run.

If SR is true, then are YOU real or am I?? Am I the only being that exists? Are you?? Are we both God?? I think not. In fact, I know better and no one can ever convince me otherwise.

Isn't it blatantly obvious that SR doesn't really work and it's absolutely preposterous?? You know fully well that you're real and you can pretend I'm not all day long, or that I exist as some illusion in your consciousness, but I assure you that I am and I'm far more than a figment of your imagination or some illusion, just as you are way more than a figment of mine. I mean, you don't honestly believe that my existence is an illusion do you??

[moonrambler]

Originally Posted by Betrade

Oh yeah; well tell his wife and kids that his death was just an illusion and see what they have to say about it. But you better be prepared to duck or run.

Well, of course that is probably inadvisable. But if SR is true, then you have created these people to have their expected reactions to insensitive statements. Otherwise they wouldn't be "real" people in your dream.

Isn't it blatantly obvious that SR doesn't really work and it's absolutely preposterous?? You know fully well that you're real and you can pretend I'm not all day long, or that I exist as some illusion in your consciousness, but I assure you that I am and I'm far more than a figment of your imagination or some illusion, just as you are way more than a figment of mine. I mean, you don't honestly believe that my existence is an illusion do you??

SR doesn't really work to do what?

When I'm in a sleeping dream, I don't honestly believe that the existence of anyone else there is an illusion either. And often in waking life, I think that those people in my dreams may actually exist in some alternate universe I visit when I'm sleeping, because some of those places I go seem very, very real to me.

I don't really want to analyze the whole SR thing about who exists and who doesn't and all of that. It's more like something you can pretend is true for awhile, and that way you can find out how it goes when you live that way for awhile, and whether it seems more "true" than other ways of being.

I know better and no one can ever convince me otherwise.

I've lost count of how many times people come onto the IM or Spiritual forum or wherever, and announce that no one can ever convince them otherwise. Haven't you ever had your reality foundation shaken? Haven't you ever been able to relate to the concept of "losing my religion"? Hasn't anything ever happened that went completely against what you believed to be true, and you had to stop and question some really fundamental beliefs? How can you be so certain that no one could ever convince you otherwise no matter what?