moderation & banning

[AaronB]

Originally Posted by Mounds

Huh. What'd he get banned for?

I like the people on this forum, but it does seem someone here is banhappy. I've searched through some of the posts of the banned people, and there's nothing disturbing about them. They're just normal people who probably didn't back down from a moderator trying to intimidate them through pm's.

It makes me wonder if there is an alternate forum that people here enjoy that isn't into moderating so much? I really really like the setup here though. It's by far the best forum I've seen yet. Ideally there would be an exact copy of this forum with lots less banning and moderating going on.

I still really like this forum but it would be fun to visit the free for all forum just for fun every now and again. As for moderation, to me the only reason to ban someone is because they are spamming, because that will impede communication.

[carenkh]

Often, the posts that get a member banned are deleted, so you wouldn't have found those on your search. I've been curious, too, about what this forum would be like unmoderated except for spam. If my experiences (thinking of whom we've banned and WHY) are any indication, it would soon devolve into juvenile bickering, arguing, namecalling -in other words, like just about every other forum out there. It's because we hold the standards high here that keep this forum amazing. That is my opinion, but that's an opinion based on experience. The most effective unschooling discussion lists, for example, are those with heavy moderation, and a willingness to ban if someone's posts don't fit the stated purpose of the group.

It's interesting you use the word 'intimidation' when you talk about moderating. What makes you see the interactions that way?

Originally Posted by AaronB

Ideally there would be an exact copy of this forum with lots less banning and moderating going on.

You wouldn't find it, in other words. The moderation is one of the things that keeps this forum great.

[elucidate]

I don't really see why people who are offensive to someone can't just be put on their ignore list...even trolls. Eventually, they will get sick of noone paying them any attention, and either start contributing or leave and not come back.

I'm not up for the level of restriction and control in society, through government...and I suppose this forum is a microcosm of society.

It's ironic that in a place where there are so many people striving for a more powerful life and things like Veganism as an option and polyamory...all these things that, in some way, represent FREEDOM, still there is this underlying control and threat of expulsion...like we're back at school or something.

It's a pretty contentious contradiction in terms really!

I'm aware that I can be manipulative and controlling also...and I do my best not to impose this aspect onto others in life.

Nowhere can you escape the clutches of conformity in this world.

[Savage]

This article should address all of these questions and more:
Free Speech in Online Communities: The Delusion of Entitlement

We're definitely tight on the moderation here. I think that's appropriate in a place where people discuss things like suicide, divorce, etc.

The mods and admins here get a whole different view of the forums than regular members do. Every week we do a lot to maintain a positive environment, including cleaning up the trash talk.

You'll virtually never see the posts that got someone banned (if that's why they got banned) because it's standard practice for the mods to nuke them. That way old threads can continue to provide good value for those who stumble upon them instead of being derailed with occasional flaming, trolling, marketing spam, etc. We also do this so we won't have people reporting the same posts repeatedly and more people feeding pointless drama, which would create more work for the mods.

If you prefer a forum where trolling is par for the course, there are plenty to choose from. But not this one.

[Angela]

Originally Posted by AaronB

Ideally there would be an exact copy of this forum with lots less banning and moderating going on.

If it weren't for the banning and moderating that goes on, it wouldn't BE an exact copy - I think it would be very, very different, to the point where the things you enjoy would probably not occur for you.

You don't see what gets people banned, because the moderators remove the egregious stuff. When people sign up to post here, we agree to abide by the rules of the forum, rules that are not arbitrary but that have been shown to be effective in generating extraordinary conversations. And then we keep our word to follow those rules, or we don't. Either way is fine. As with everything, there are consequences, and you get to choose how you respond to those consequences. You can choose to believe they're wrong and should not be, or you can choose to believe they're feedback and get the learning, or you can choose something else. In my opinion, choosing to believe something should not be is the epitome of craziness*, because, well, it is, and your *shoulding* makes zero difference, except to have you feel frustrated.

In the rules, it's very clearly stated what bannable and moderatable offenses are, and you agreed to them when you signed up to post. If you don't like banning and moderating, why did you agree to participate in a place where banning and moderating are clearly stated consequences of particular actions? I think it's because there's something to learn here.

*My definition of craziness: being present to no choice.

[James81]

I'm on another forum that has very loose moderation. And, while in some ways it's much more "freeing" to not have to watch what you say, the discussions hardly ever get anywhere beyond a bunch of "suck it up, *****" kind of posts.

And some members who hang around are literally scared to post about some of their issues simply because they are afraid of getting flamed to hell and back. (LOL)

In some ways, you can say that a forum like that is more "honest" (in that people just say whatever the heck they are thinking), but in other ways that "honest" nature isn't really effective.

[Savage]

Originally Posted by James81

In some ways, you can say that a forum like that is more "honest" (in that people just say whatever the heck they are thinking), but in other ways that "honest" nature isn't really effective.

I've repeatedly seen how an environment of trash talk makes people clam up about the really deep stuff because they don't want to deal with the juvenile and unhelpful reactions.

How would such a forum treat someone who's contemplating suicide, for instance?

[James81]

Originally Posted by Steve Pavlina

I've repeatedly seen how an environment of trash talk makes people clam up about the really deep stuff because they don't want to deal with the juvenile and unhelpful reactions.

How would such a forum treat someone who's contemplating suicide, for instance?

Actually, on the deeper issues such as suicide, for instance, these people suddenly shift into a more nurturing mode. The juvenile responses tend to slough off when really serious issues such as suicide are presented.

There are some things that pretty much everybody takes seriously (such as suicide), I've found. Even the most juvenile of people can "mature up" when someone is at the that point.

I think it might have to do with the idea that nobody wants to be "to blame" for saying a juvenile remark to someone in that sort of state...where the wrong comment might "push" a person over the edge to something more drastic.

I dunno, though. I'm not sure why something like "suicide", for instance, would cause them to shift, but something equally as serious (IMO) such as depression wouldn't.

[Angela]

And people who are interested in practicing effective communication would likely walk away from a forum in which egregiously ineffective communication techniques flourish -- techniques like refusing to take responsibility, blaming and shaming, name-calling, no-integrity behavior (not doing what you agree to do), etc.

There's nothing wrong with people doing that, and there are plenty of places where it's allowed and even encouraged. And declaring a *Game* like these forums, a game in which, like a lot of fun games, have rules, generates a space where people can practice and expand effective communication.

It's like playing beach volleyball. On most of the courts on the beach, people are free to play one-overs, meltdowns, double hits, etc. And people who want to play at a high level of quality volleyball establish a court here or there only for people who enjoy the freedom and connection that's available in playing in alignment with the integrity of rules that work well for us. If you don't like it, you can go play on the jungle ball courts -- the beach is crawlin' with 'em!

[ssandra]

Originally Posted by elucidate

I don't really see why people who are offensive to someone can't just be put on their ignore list...even trolls. Eventually, they will get sick of noone paying them any attention, and either start contributing or leave and not come back.

Just think of it... how would this forum look for a new visitor (who potentially could have a lot to share) if all those old posts would be kept up?

Personally, if it is someone who has made more then a few posts and there is a thread where they are using personal attacks and/or trolling I'll always warn them first.
Some people shape up to become pretty decent people (Hi James ). Others simply ignore me and get banned.

[Mounds]

Originally Posted by Steve Pavlina

How would such a forum treat someone who's contemplating suicide, for instance?

This is one thing I strongly agree on. Most of the forums I've ever been in have a fair amount of mudslinging and I think it's flat out embarrassing, considering the quality of the some of these parent websites. Someone asks a question and the first four posts are "Look it up, noob".
When I asked why he got banned, I was being my sarcastic self. If someone is publicly and blatantly harassing someone else, they deserve to get a ban. Sure, there is the ignore feature but I doubt the problems would stop there. He'd probably have found someone new to harass. Pretty much everyone told him his behavior was out of line and he didn't care.
The only confinement you will feel on this forum is the confinement you put on yourself. I say racy things, have lots of fun, read some things you won't read anywhere else, all without intentionally treading on anyone else's feelings. How difficult is that?

-Tim

[James81]

Originally Posted by Angela

And people who are interested in practicing effective communication would likely walk away from a forum in which egregiously ineffective communication techniques flourish -- techniques like refusing to take responsibility, blaming and shaming, name-calling, no-integrity behavior (not doing what you agree to do), etc.

Hmmm, and yet I find myself going back there (albeit, not to the extent I used to).

It's been a point of contention with me....do I choose to walk away, when there are people there that I really enjoy talking to? Do i continue talking with said people through other means, and walk away? Do I stay, and be exactly who I am, showing them a new way of communicating? Do I stay, knowing that lots of things really "activate" me there, under the notion that if I can't be *anywhere* and not get activated by immaturity, then have I really learned anything?

I dunno. It's been a confusing sort of thing to ponder.

Maybe I'm not looking to be an effective communicator, so much, as I am looking for ways to be wherever I am at and be at peace.

[Angela]

Well, one thing I've noticed is that playing a game is a lot more fun when you're consciously aware of what game you're playing.

[James81]

The game is constantly changing.

[ssandra]

I'd also like to say that personal I do feel a bit sad that people would think such bad things of me (and the other mods).

Do people here really think that I of all people (and the other mods) would engage in an ego war?
That we would ban people simply because they have their own opinion?
That we would ban people because they "won't back down?"
That we won't listen to reason?
Or fairly warn people who make a mistake or get overheated in a debate?

What have we done to deserve such a reputation...?

Have we ever treated any of you unfair?


(ok, I recognize that these are my issues to deal with. I'm not so much needing approval as that I do need the absence of disapproval without substance. I see that this is my issue, but I also would like to invite all of you who think so badly about us mods to consider why that is....)

[James81]

Originally Posted by ssandra

I do need the absence of disapproval without substance.

I love it when people disapprove of me without substance. It's the best kind of disapproval you can get.

[Mounds]

I don't think so Sandra. Every banning I've seen (and I pay close attention) has been well-deserved. If you set up rules to keep a forum up to a certain standard and others decide to ignore those rules, that's their problem, not yours Doesn't matter what you do in life, someone will ALWAYS disagree. I say keep up the good work.
If you guys feel like your freedom of speech is being encroached upon, I'd be more than happy to show you some forums that don't have standards

-Tim

[secrets0stolen]

Originally Posted by James81

I love it when people disapprove of me without substance. It's the best kind of disapproval you can get.

^^ Can I quote you?
_________________________________________

Personally, as much as I am for openness, I think the moderation is one thing that makes these forums great. I really don't think people should get banned for swearing or harmless sexual comments--but I've never seen that happen either.

I think the key is keeping a juvenile troll attitude as far away as possible, and preventing personal attacks.

However, I'm just biased: I've only been on the receiving end of a crap-attack.
______________________________________________

Sandra, I don't know where people get that idea either. I can understand a certain amount of contempt for authority, but the mods aren't unreasonable. It's pretty clear to me they're just members with a certain amount of power--not a foreign species. Although, I've met people with that attitude toward any sort of authority.

Now, I don't really want to get philosophical here, because "in theory" I'm not for authority--in an idealistic sense. But the system on this board works--and it works well.

[Angela]

Originally Posted by James81

The game is constantly changing.

That's certainly one kind of game you can play -- a game that is constantly changing.

[lifetimelearner]

I for one do appreciate what the moderators do -I was ready to leave this forum a few times but stayed because I feel comforted in the knowledge that I will be respected and therefore I have grown in my respect for others





now let's talk about something better like .............hmmmm sex ?

[James81]

Originally Posted by Angela

That's certainly one kind of game you can play -- a game that is constantly changing.

What are some other games that you can play?

[MidasGirl]

So now I'm totally confused. I thought you were saying Mounds got banned. But here I see him. Who got banned?

[Angela]

Originally Posted by James81

What are some other games that you can play?

Inspired by you, I'm designing a game right now! (will be posting today.) In this game, I expect that I will change, but the game will remain pretty much the same for the duration of the game. There may be adjustments, but it won't be constantly changing.

Some people play a Don't Change Game (I know, huh? Good luck with THAT! )

As far as I can tell, the games you can play are limitless, whether you design them consciously or unconsciously. They tend to feel less like *Play* in my experience when they're unconsciously designed -- they tend to feel much more effortful, stressful, and even suffery.

[Plays With Life]

Originally Posted by AaronB

This feeling started after reading a post that I liked by someone named Judge, who was mysteriously banned, then seeing that darksage was banned. I searched their posts and saw nothing even slightly outrageous. It seemed to me they were banned as a result of some ego war running behind the scenes. Maybe pm's with a mod that wanted to show how big they were or something.

I think moderators delete the posts that prompted the ban (because the posts are against the forum rules). If someone was banned, whatever they were banned for is not on the forum.

[James81]

Isn't it kinda funny how "banning" is suddenly the theme here? Authority and banning.

Before that it seemed like "appropriate/inappropriate."

Funny.

[Mounds]

Originally Posted by MidasGirl

So now I'm totally confused. I thought you were saying Mounds got banned. But here I see him. Who got banned?

The person in question is darksage.

Don't worry guys, I'll be haunting your threads for a while still

now let's talk about something better like .............hmmmm sex ?

Sounds good to me!

[Angela]

Where is "here"?

[AlmostGodess]

For me these things seem pretty clear. If I want to play football, I follow football rules and not volleyball rules. Before I engage in a new game I read the rules, I look how other people play it, I think if I want to play it and then, if I like it, I jump in. If not, I stay out.

[James81]

Originally Posted by Angela

Inspired by you, I'm designing a game right now! (will be posting today.) In this game, I expect that I will change, but the game will remain pretty much the same for the duration of the game. There may be adjustments, but it won't be constantly changing.

I literally cannot wait to read about it. I hope that by "today" you mean, "in the next few minutes" or something. The suspense is killin' me.

Originally Posted by Angela

Some people play a Don't Change Game (I know, huh? Good luck with THAT! )

I was just thinking about that today. Might be out of the scope of this thread to talk about it. (It involves seeing where I haven't changed, I've just stopped getting activated.)

Originally Posted by Angela

As far as I can tell, the games you can play are limitless, whether you design them consciously or unconsciously. They tend to feel less like *Play* in my experience when they're unconsciously designed -- they tend to feel much more effortful, stressful, and even suffery.

And that effort and stress can ultimately lead to a banning. (bringing 'er around to the topic )

[Savage]

If you recall, Darksage publicly asked to have his account deleted, but since we can't delete accounts since that would corrupt the archives, a ban seemed like the best way to honor that request.

Some members have asked to have their accounts nuked/banned, so they aren't tempted to keep posting under that account. I'm fine with honoring those requests. An account isn't a person anyway.