Why can't SR and OR coexist?

[Artelus]

I'm talking about subjective and objective reality. True that everybody has their own beliefs, but if everybody share the exact same belief, doesn't that make it objective?

For example, if almost everyone believed that humans can't fly, then it's pretty much objective that nobody can fly. If one person believes that he can fly, it doesn't matter due to the objectivity created by everybody else.

Moreso, I feel that subjective reality only works on subtle details of your own life. Your productivity, your mood, your intelligence, and maybe even your health.

But can one person's reality possibly affect all the other humans in the world?
I'll be honest...the answer that I'm expecting from this forum would be along the lines of "If they believe hard enough...they can fly" or "If they are powerful enough..."

So, please correct my misconceptions.

[Melchior]

Originally Posted by Artelus

I'm talking about subjective and objective reality. True that everybody has their own beliefs, but if everybody share the exact same belief, doesn't that make it objective?

That would depend, because from a subjective point of view, all those other people are essentially yourself, that you and them are separate from one another is an illusion. And the only thing objective (read "real") about this reality is that You as consciousness exists. So in essence, it makes no sense to speak of others and yourself as separate entities, on one level yes, but fundamentally, we're all a projection of consciousness. This isn't the consciousness that you or I believe we have, and in fact, that consciousness isn't real either, but just the result of the overarching consciousness of SR, dreaming, imagining, creating, spinning a story.

Originally Posted by Artelus

But can one person's reality possibly affect all the other humans in the world?

The thing is, one person's reality, your reality, is everyone else's reality. But more importantly, your reality isn't even really your reality, because you're not the one making the story come alive, but rather it's the fundamental aspect of SR is the one turning all the gears. What you believe to be your experiences only serve to give you, the projection in the dream, a better sense that you're simply a character in the story of consciousness. The way you progress is simply how the story is being written, in a stream-of-consciousness manner at that.

Originally Posted by Artelus

I'll be honest...the answer that I'm expecting from this forum would be along the lines of "If they believe hard enough...they can fly" or "If they are powerful enough..."

Regarding the title, SR and OR can both coexist because SR can contain OR in the sense that OR becomes the frame of reality that you perceive and is an illusion to what's real. And OR can contain SR in the sense that SR becomes a frame of mind belonging to an individual and is an illusion to what's real. The key point here, is that you cannot simply creep in one belief into another, but rather, you'll have to take it as a whole because the other won't matter. ...Perhaps this black and white nature will tell you something about beliefs, that they are a delusion in and of themselves, and the best thing to do is to not believe in the first place, just live, simply be. To repeat what I came across a couple days ago, all one has is all one needs.

[JSB]

I believe they can coexist, in that there is an objective truth behind subjective reality. If our immediately perceived, apparently objective reality is an illusion, and we are all projections in the dream of The Dreamer, then there is a truth, a reality beyond the Dream, as asserted by Plato, the Buddha, and many other wise people.

[invisiblehouses]

So if subjective reality is the absolute, bottom-line, true essence of what is real, doesn't that make it an objective truth?

So SR and OR are the same thing.

I just blew my own mind.

[Piercetheveil]

Both are cognitive crutches.

[MidasGirl]

Originally Posted by invisiblehouses

So SR and OR are the same thing.

I just blew my own mind.

OR is an aspect of SR if you're using a SR lens.

[Angela]

Originally Posted by Artelus

... but if everybody share the exact same belief, doesn't that make it objective?

For example, if almost everyone believed that humans can't fly, then it's pretty much objective that nobody can fly. If one person believes that he can fly, it doesn't matter due to the objectivity created by everybody else.....

But can one person's reality possibly affect all the other humans in the world?

So, please correct my misconceptions.

It used to be generally believed that it was physically impossible for a human to run a mile in less than four minutes. (not without significant damage to the body, anyway.)

Then one day a guy named Roger Bannister ran a mile in 3:59:04. A month or so later another guy beat that by a couple of seconds. A whole bunch of people suddenly were doing the "impossible" - 16 of them within the ensuing three years. Last I heard, the record is down to 3:43:13.

So yes, when one person transforms his belief about possibility, he doesn't just change it for himself -- he changes it for the world.

[cylon]

Originally Posted by invisiblehouses

So if subjective reality is the absolute, bottom-line, true essence of what is real, doesn't that make it an objective truth?

Objective implies something existing beyond the subjective, so no I don't think it's the same thing.

[RomanHD]

The way I currently see it:

If you believe in SR, then SR = OR
If you believe in OR, then SR is very different from OR

Ultimately, you have to make assumptions in either world-view.

In OR you assume that the universe exists independently of you. This I find to be a very reasonable and useful assumption consistent with my observations.

What do the SR people assume, I don't know -- maybe you SR folks can tell us?

[Andrew Brunelle]

Isn't OR a part of SR. If you believe in SR, OR is a part of it, as it is contained in the container of all existence, is it not? They can coexist, and you can live both at the same time, because you could say you subjectively created the objective world. If this truly is a dream, anything is possible, so the two can coexist, and often do. It is kind of like a nested loop. SR on the outside, Or on the inside.

[MidasGirl]

Originally Posted by RomanHD

What do the SR people assume, I don't know -- maybe you SR folks can tell us?

I am an SR peep, I assume nothing

[RomanHD]

Originally Posted by MidasGirl

I am an SR peep, I assume nothing

Uh, you have to assume SOMETHING. Either that reality is a dream, that you are the only person in existence, that we all are one... Something like that. You simply CAN'T have a model of the universe without assuming something.

[Karanime]

Don't know, don't care.

I used to think this was an objective world that we could influence with thoughts and intentions. Action was not our only means of change.

Now I'm incredibly comfortable with thinking you're all projections of my own mind. I created you each as a piece of myself, so I could further define, redefine, and heal my mind and soul. I own this world.

Life is but a tool to ease the torture of the soul.

/<3