My personal reaction to Steve's new direction

[VinceG]

Hi, I've been subscribed to his blog for some time, and this latest series of posts made me want to get in contact with him. Well, he doesn't offer a public email address (my preferred method for this kind of interaction) but I found out about the forum instead, which seems to me now is much better! Say what I have to say to lots instead of one!

As I read through this latest post a lot of things struck me as very similar to Steve's and mine pasts. We both tend to be locked up inside our heads and seem to need help in getting outside that narrow box. We both share a love of technology and a deeper interest in the mechanics of consciousness. We both like to write. Superficially, his latest post surprised me, but on a deeper level, it didn't at all.

I went through a similar period to what he's describing about 5 years ago, in my wee early twenties. I fell in with a group of New-Age Wiccan-types who encouraged this sort of exploration. I read all kinds of books that really expanded my mind. I found myself in the same place, trodding the same path, having the same sorts of experiences, in a period of my life where to the outside observer, would look like my life was falling down around me. I was letting it go because that life my past self chose wasn't me.

One of the aspects of Steve's path that eluded me was the idea that you could consider the people around you as but figments of your imaginary dream world and completely within your ability to influence almost as an extension of yourself. My brief explorations with the idea have been positive and my experiences bear the truthiness of the platform out.

My problem is: It's just not me.

As similar as my path has been to Steve's, it's been very different in many profound ways. The way Steve illustrated his life is:

Boring Steve -> Tech Steve -> Blog Steve -> High-Roller Steve -> BDSM Steve -> Mind-Hacking Steve -> Subjective Reality Steve

Whereas my life hits many of the same chords, I found a very different melody. I'm a staunch materialistic atheist, for one. For any weird synchronicities you can pile up to try to convince me that "everything has a purpose," I'll come right back at you with "on an earth with seven billion people on it, one in a million events can't be all that rare." Steve's spoon will never move, and I'll stop reading his blog if it ever does move, because that's when I know his commitment to truth and reality is done for. Not a single one of my experiences has ever even provoked me to consider a supernatural point of view, and the longer I live, observe, and witness, the more sure of myself in this I become.

I consider objective reality, the material world, an important grounding point. You start questioning that, you start yourself down a long downward spiral not unlike drug addiction. People who talk to dead people are charlatans who cannot believe in their "art" themselves in order to deceive others, it's necessary for them to keep two sets of reality books for their scams to function properly.

That said, I don't find the world a depressing place because I don't believe in magic. In fact, the longer I go on, the more and more I appreciate the fact that there is indeed, a physical world that defies all our attempts to control with our minds. I honestly wouldn't want it any other way.

Consciousness, intention/manifestation, light/dark-working and the like offer extraordinary opportunities to play with the stuff of magic without breaking any laws of physics. I don't consider manifestation to be magic, simply as rolling dice. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't, and manifestation is like continually rolling the dice until your number comes up. It just seems really impressive when it works. But you didn't bet anything on all the times where your number didn't come up, so you don't even notice that you were even rolling.

Thing is, I just can't bring myself to totally accept the idea of subjective reality in my life. I can't bring myself to think of others as figments of my imagination. I can't walk down the same paths as Steve. Because I have my own ideas that need to be explored. Right now I'm focused on trying to be totally honest with myself and others. And learning the dramatic arts and music. I think Steve would be playing with very different concepts right now if he had ever explored music. Or taken improv classes. And I'd be right there with him, probably, if I had ever taken up D/s. But I love watching him go down that path, the path I walked on, the path that helped make me what I am today.

I think there's a lesson there that we could all benefit from. Even though we're all figments of Steve's imagination, it's just as true and probably even more so, that Steve is but a figment of all of our imaginations! Who's to say who's would be the strongest personality if we all met together sans role-imposing contexts, like if we were taking his seminar?

In my world, Steve is but a very smart man who's found success blogging and now has a rapidly growing audience due to his personal appeal brought on by not putting on airs and the everyman nature of his explorations. I don't look at him as a guru or herald of a new age or any of that nonsense. I don't need his seminars, though I wouldn't turn the opportunity to go to one down. The everyday explorations I go through are more than enough for me, because they're mine, I've created them, I know the contexts behind them, and I control them.

If you're floating, looking for a set of contexts to attach your reality to, and Steve's pull you in, by all means, embrace and explore. But remember that you weren't put on this earth to be Steve's NPC. You have a reality all your own that you must find. Cast your net wide. And when you do find that reality, share it with all of us! It doesn't look like Steve is particularly zealous about controlling our realities! So take advantage! It's a gift, to have someone around who isn't interested in controlling your identity. So many powerful people do.

[Angela]

Well, it's helpful to know what you don't want.

[VinceG]

Originally Posted by Angela

Well, it's helpful to know what you don't want.

A thing is really only defined by its opposite. Get what you want by kicking all of the things you don't want out of your life. Then you'll have space for the things you do.

[Cricket Questions]

by all means, embrace and explore. But remember that you weren't put on this earth to be Steve's NPC. You have a reality all your own that you must find

Thank you for the reminder! Though I was rather of the opinion that he was my NPC... which is nonsense, because he's actually Me!

And you are Me, too. I'm delighted to see my reservations reflected in you! As well as the reminder that the reality of being a staunch atheist is/was just as real as the one I choose right now. Synchroncity is amazing that way!

The everyday explorations I go through are more than enough for me, because they're mine, I've created them, I know the contexts behind them, and I control them.

I am curious! Do you see SR as being a loss of control, or too controling for your tastes?

[moonrambler]

Originally Posted by VinceG

Steve's spoon will never move, and I'll stop reading his blog if it ever does move, because that's when I know his commitment to truth and reality is done for.

This is a very interesting sentence. You don't say you'll stop reading his blog if he says the spoon moves, but you'll stop reading his blog if the spoon actually ever does move

[Angela]

oooooohhhh, 2001.

[moonrambler]

Originally Posted by Angela

oooooohhhh, 2001.

Yeah, I just steamrolled through the landmark with nary a glance!

[VinceG]

Originally Posted by moonrambler

This is a very interesting sentence. You don't say you'll stop reading his blog if he says the spoon moves, but you'll stop reading his blog if the spoon actually ever does move

The spoon moves in his reality. To me, everyone's subjective realities are equal. The spoon really did move, if only in his mind. But if he tries to pass that subjective reality off as my objective reality, that's when his subjective reality ceases to be of interest to mine.

[VinceG]

Originally Posted by Cricket Questions

I am curious! Do you see SR as being a loss of control, or too controling for your tastes?

It's not a question of control. Any outlook on reality frees you, if that outlook really reflects on who you are. It's a question of philosophical fit. I will readily admit that other ways of looking at my life could well be considered better than my own. For example the religious outlook. Humans evolved to be religious. Being religious puts in synchronicity many positive aspects of life. But mine is "right" in a way that speaks deep to me. I cannot give up the idea of an objective reality. I cannot give up the feeling that I have a pretty good understanding of it, hard won through observation, experience, and trying to be dead honest with myself. I've built much of my personality on it. But I'd be dishonest if I didn't think there's much that's seductive, that's "right" about SR as Steve puts it. It's right in the same way that religion is right. I'm happily cherry picking ideas and epiphanies from Steve's experience, which is similar in ways but way different than others to mine own.

His is right, but my way is correct. That is my belief.

[Acting Like Godot]

Originally Posted by VinceG

That is my belief.

LOL, the magic SR words again. No escaping.

[Acting Like Godot]

Originally Posted by VinceG

I cannot give up the idea of an objective reality.

Yes, the usual problem.

[MidasGirl]

Originally Posted by VinceG

The spoon moves in his reality. To me, everyone's subjective realities are equal. The spoon really did move, if only in his mind. But if he tries to pass that subjective reality off as my objective reality, that's when his subjective reality ceases to be of interest to mine.

Your statement makes no objective sense. How could he pass his SR as your OR? You always have the option to reject it. You can reject another person's observations any time you choose to, whether they are presented as SR or OR.

In any case, I doubt Steve would be particularly distraught if you stopped reading his blog.

[VinceG]

Originally Posted by Acting Like Godot

LOL, the magic SR words again. No escaping.

Not at all. Even looking at things objectively, there's always going to be gaps between what you need to know and what you know. We fill those gaps up with beliefs. The difference between Steve's point of view and mine is whether we should spend more time with the things we believe rather than expanding on the things we know. Steve's world is (currently) one of experience. He spends less and less time theorizing about why things work and just lets them work. I'm much more interested in the hows and the whys. I know his way works, but I can't bring myself to fully enter it because doing so would rob me of the ability to understand it. Understanding is more important to me than experiencing.

[Divajules]

Originally Posted by VinceG

Understanding is more important to me than experiencing.

Really? That doesn't make too much sense to me. How can you understand something thouroughly if you don't experience it?

You can intellectualize it but the experience brings the understanding and the true knowing, at least for me.

IMHO, we are here FOR THE EXPERIENCE....that is the only thing that actually is even close to "real".

[VinceG]

Originally Posted by MidasGirl

Your statement makes no objective sense. How could he pass his SR as your OR? You always have the option to reject it. You can reject another person's observations any time you choose to, whether they are presented as SR or OR.

People pass their subjective observations off as objective reality all the time. Every time a "miracle" (read: commonly occurring coincidence) ihappens people are quick to jump out of their chairs and claim it as proof of some supernatural phenomenon or some other. I could go to a church to hear an hour of it. If someone ever tells you their opinion of you, many times they're telling it to you in a way that doesn't appreciate the possibility that they're wrong about you. Human beings are surprisingly bad at discerning objective reality. Did you slam on the gas pedal or the brake pedal when that car cut you off? You might think you slammed on the brakes, but your busted front end says otherwise.

For another take on what I'm getting at, this link explains it well:
Reality vs. Actuality: A Deeper Look

I believe that there's an "actuality" behind everything we do, that if understood, can explain things like, "Why did that girl reject me when I asked her out," or "what steps do I need to take to live a fuller, happier life." And I spend a great deal of time trying to tease the subtle relationships underpinning the actuality behind our realities.

In any case, I doubt Steve would be particularly distraught if you stopped reading his blog.

That's nice to know. Thanks for this lovely insight.

[Savage]

Resistance is futile.

[VinceG]

Originally Posted by Divajules

Really? That doesn't make too much sense to me. How can you understand something thouroughly if you don't experience it?

You can intellectualize it but the experience brings the understanding and the true knowing, at least for me.

IMHO, we are here FOR THE EXPERIENCE....that is the only thing that actually is even close to "real".

I do things for the experience. But after I get the experience, I stop, and try to figure out the mechanics behind it. Sometimes I have to go back to the experience three or four times before I can understand it.

To me the joy of understanding is the true reward of life.

[marinik]

Originally Posted by Steve Pavlina

Resistance is futile.

LOL I just said that! I mean you/me said that!

[Angela]

Originally Posted by Divajules

Really? That doesn't make too much sense to me. How can you understand something thouroughly if you don't experience it?

You can intellectualize it but the experience brings the understanding and the true knowing, at least for me.

IMHO, we are here FOR THE EXPERIENCE....that is the only thing that actually is even close to "real".

I've been learning a little bit about the dynamics of learning things at a deeply unconscious level, and I've discovered that there people have unconscious preferences: some prefer to first understand what it is, some prefer to first understand why they should learn it, others want to jump in and try it (experience it), and still others want to go immediately to how they can use it and adapt it to make a difference in the world.

Each primary preference approach is valid, I reckon.

[Angela]

Originally Posted by Steve Pavlina

Resistance is futile.

Surrender, Earthling!


(Ha! That gives me an idea for MY halloween costume! )

[Mike0149]

A lot of the exchanges in this thread seem to illustrate well the innate either/or personality facets that underlie the Meyer-Briggs Personality Type e.g.

Originally Posted by VinceG

... Any outlook on reality frees you, if that outlook really reflects on who you are. It's a question of philosophical fit ... I cannot give up the idea of an objective reality. I cannot give up the feeling that I have a pretty good understanding of it, hard won through observation, experience, and trying to be dead honest with myself.

Pretty good description of a 'Sensing' type - 'takes in' from the external world in a concrete, structured, linear fashion (as distinct from the 'intuitive' type who 'grabs the big picture').

Originally Posted by VinceG

I've built much of my personality on it.

Maybe it's the other way round - your innate, genetically determined personality predilections have built you(r conscious concept of yourself).

Originally Posted by Divajules

How can you understand something thouroughly if you don't experience it?

You can intellectualize it but the experience brings the understanding and the true knowing, at least for me.

IMHO, we are here FOR THE EXPERIENCE....that is the only thing that actually is even close to "real".

That's the Meyer-Briggs Extravert type speaking: "Cannot understand life until they have lived it" (as compared with the Intravert type who 'cannot live life until they have understood it').

[VinceG]

Originally Posted by Mike0149

A lot of the exchanges in this thread seem to illustrate well the innate either/or personality facets that underlie the Meyer-Briggs Personality Type e.g.



Pretty good description of a 'Sensing' type - 'takes in' from the external world in a concrete, structured, linear fashion (as distinct from the 'intuitive' type who 'grabs the big picture').



Maybe it's the other way round - your innate, genetically determined personality predilections have built you(r conscious concept of yourself).



That's the Meyer-Briggs Extravert type speaking: "Cannot understand life until they have lived it" (as compared with the Intravert type who 'cannot live life until they have understood it').

I've always been an INTP. Thing about Meyer-Briggs is that it's only good so long as you don't do any real personal development, and they describe preferences, not the way your neurons work. Once you start really developing, the preferences lose their meanings because they get too small to hold all the different ways you experience and understand reality. I haven't taken one in awhile, but if I did it today I'd probably be an XNXP, as I've worked really hard on my feeling and relating parts in the last few years.

I'm also a hack writer, always trying to find new ways to express myself. So it's probably futile to try to read my personality from my overwritten posts.

[agsags]

Originally Posted by VinceG

I do things for the experience. But after I get the experience, I stop, and try to figure out the mechanics behind it. Sometimes I have to go back to the experience three or four times before I can understand it.

To me the joy of understanding is the true reward of life.

I'm similar to you in this respect. One of the brightest moments in life is when I either come up with or read an explanation to a multitude of my experiences that have been structure and theory-free. I experience true joy then.

However I noticed that this approach to life (N, in terms of MBTI), hampers my exploration of life. I often wait for a theory to act on before exploring - rather than "just doing it". I wonder if you find yourself doing the same.

[VinceG]

Originally Posted by agsags

I'm similar to you in this respect. One of the brightest moments in life is when I either come up with or read an explanation to a multitude of my experiences that have been structure and theory-free. I experience true joy then.

However I noticed that this approach to life (N, in terms of MBTI), hampers my exploration of life. I often wait for a theory to act on before exploring - rather than "just doing it". I wonder if you find yourself doing the same.

I find that you don't really understand something unless you can do it fairly easily. To take an example, a lot of guys find it very difficult to just walk up to a girl and start chatting/flirting with her. I don't have this particular problem, because I took apart the mechanics behind this fear and put them back together in a way that makes it work for me. At my favorite place to meet women, the coffee shop, I see a girl I like, I'm talking to her. I "just do it." I understand why it's hard, I understand that it would be very difficult for other guys to do that, I've sat through the experience of not being able to get up and go talk to a woman I want enough times to understand it.

Instead of creating a new reality in my head to "change the game" I deal with the issues head-on. I feel that you really don't have the understanding until you're more than comfortable with the actual experiences you're trying to understand.

I've been riding the train more often and I've noticed a hesitancy in wanting to approach women. After exploring this hesitancy I decided that I didn't really want to approach people on the train, even though I might want them, I didn't want them if I met them on the train. So I explore other parts of life while I'm on the train without worrying about women.

You're always exploring life. Whatever you're dealing with right now is an area of life that deserves exploration. Even if it's your personal reaction to somebody else's reality.

[Curtis2011]

Originally Posted by VinceG

Criminal Steve -> Boring Steve -> Tech Steve -> Blog Steve -> High-Roller Steve -> BDSM Steve -> Mind-Hacking Steve -> Subjective Reality Steve

Fix'd

[Savage]

Originally Posted by VinceG

I find that you don't really understand something unless you can do it fairly easily. To take an example, a lot of guys find it very difficult to just walk up to a girl and start chatting/flirting with her. I don't have this particular problem, because I took apart the mechanics behind this fear and put them back together in a way that makes it work for me. At my favorite place to meet women, the coffee shop, I see a girl I like, I'm talking to her. I "just do it." I understand why it's hard, I understand that it would be very difficult for other guys to do that, I've sat through the experience of not being able to get up and go talk to a woman I want enough times to understand it.

Instead of creating a new reality in my head to "change the game" I deal with the issues head-on. I feel that you really don't have the understanding until you're more than comfortable with the actual experiences you're trying to understand.

I've been riding the train more often and I've noticed a hesitancy in wanting to approach women. After exploring this hesitancy I decided that I didn't really want to approach people on the train, even though I might want them, I didn't want them if I met them on the train. So I explore other parts of life while I'm on the train without worrying about women.

You're always exploring life. Whatever you're dealing with right now is an area of life that deserves exploration. Even if it's your personal reaction to somebody else's reality.

When you shift your reality, your experience will reach a whole new level. Those same women will open you. You won't have to deal with fear or hesitation. It will just happen naturally and easily.

Perhaps down the road I can share more about this. It's more fun to see it in person though. CGW #5 is gonna be a blast in that regard I think.

[VinceG]

Originally Posted by Steve Pavlina

When you shift your reality, your experience will reach a whole new level. Those same women will open you. You won't have to deal with fear or hesitation. It will just happen naturally and easily.

Perhaps down the road I can share more about this. It's more fun to see it in person though. CGW #5 is gonna be a blast in that regard I think.

Honestly, I've had the women open me. It's not the same. I like to control the interaction and explore the infinite possibilities that exist in any particular moment. Like, after we talk for a bit, I might tilt my head to the side in a strange way, just to see how she might react. The interactions I have with women are pretty cool on their own, and the way I choose to make them better involves exploring objective reality, not subjective.

All of my interactions already seem smooth and natural. Even when they're awkward. It's all fun for me. I've learned how to look at a girl in a way that isn't creepy, but is pretty intense all the same. I put a blank look on my face and just look at her, with no expectation or judgment. It elicits some fun reactions and conversations with girls.

[agsags]

Originally Posted by Steve Pavlina

When you shift your reality, your experience will reach a whole new level. Those same women will open you. You won't have to deal with fear or hesitation. It will just happen naturally and easily.

Perhaps down the road I can share more about this. It's more fun to see it in person though. CGW #5 is gonna be a blast in that regard I think.

Yet reality rarely shifts without new experiences . Because of this, I don't think there is a fundamental difference between believing in OR and not believing in OR - as long as one recognized subjectivity of oneself.