Subjective Relationships (Blog)

[MrMoNous]

Very short story:

Yesterday I read the post, and all the ideas about subjective reality and living in a dream world sunk in a little but more.

After that, I went to a friend's house to hang out with some friends. I was having a conversation with a friend (who has not read a personal development book in her life), and out of nowhere she said: "Ive always believed that this is all just a dream, it's not real".

My jaw dropped. I told her about Steve's blog and what I had been reading earlier. I told her that in an earlier post he said "In the coming days you will see more signs that this is all a dream" <---or something of that sort. She was surpirsed too.

So basically: WOW. That's all for now.

[Savage]

Originally Posted by supertom

But didnt you beat up your lucid dream characters

Not lately.

Usually when I turn lucid, I look for some hot NPC to have sex with.

[JeremyNoelJohnson]

Sure, what the heck, I'll jump in and join the rabbits. It's something new and uncomfortable, that's good enough for me. So the question I have is for Steve or anyone else who'd like to chime in.

In the Matrix movies, Neo gains great control over his environment, including flying and stopping bullets. Steve, you tried to move a pen with your thoughts. Do you believe you'll be able to make that happen with your thoughts alone? I ask to see what your level of doubt is currently. Because I believe the only reason it didn't move is because there are still doubts. Is it possible? How would it happen? What mechanics and science is involved? What would be the consequences? I personally believe it can be done. I know I have too many limiting beliefs and ignorance about the process to do so.

Does anyone here see the interesting parallel between moving the pen and creating a reality in life geared toward our desires? There's so many shifts I want in my life that I don't explore because I am afraid of the consequences in my marriage and in my career...

[cacheborn]

Originally Posted by JeremyNoelJohnson

Is it possible? How would it happen? What would be the consequences? I personally believe it can be done.

There is no spoon...

[Rudolf]

Originally Posted by bluelighth

Thats the song I was looking at just after reading the post!

There is no coincidence.

[BeetrootChessElf]

That Rainbow Tunnel looks like it might be part of a Jen Stark paper sculpture.



That image doesn't illustrate the quality of her work all that well, so I'll just post one more so people can decide if it's worth their time:



If you like those, you'll enjoy browsing through her gallery at Jen Stark

[crescentia]

There was a reason why I stayed up so late tonight. I didn't know why for sure at first, but then I read this post. There was just something so mysterious about it that I just had to say something.

A few days ago I registered on this forum but hadn't felt inspired to introduce myself, let alone post. I'm not entirely sure I can believe this right now but I hope that I can join you someday.

[roxyruby]

Originally Posted by crescentia

There was a reason why I stayed up so late tonight. I didn't know why for sure at first, but then I read this post. There was just something so mysterious about it that I just had to say something.

A few days ago I registered on this forum but hadn't felt inspired to introduce myself, let alone post. I'm not entirely sure I can believe this right now but I hope that I can join you someday.

Sounds like destiny in the making

[Ginge]

I think these quotes from Glajar's "We Are All One" will help a lot of us out:

I am certain that each one of us can contribute, in our own way, to the completion of the project I propose, namely the exchange of the existing philosophy of separation for the one of universal union.

Moral and ethical norms are determined and set in place by the general popular philosophical convictions of the society. Such convictions spring from the level of individual acceptance of the respective philosophical concepts. The social group that helps materialize this acceptance is composed of all active providers of education. In this respect, families, schools, churches, places of employment, and entertainment establishments join in shaping the essential set of practical moral and ethical values of the individual.

However, none of the aforementioned educational providers can 'teach' values which are not already part of their present existential philosophy; or in other words, one cannot teach something one does not know. Therefore, we can clearly see that within a scientific picture of separation between the material and the spiritual makeup of the universe, the values that will be promoted will follow suit. That is why we witness today in the Western world the manifestation of a set of values that mirror this separation philosophy within every area of human endeavor. The ego drives people to selfish acts of survival based on an existential philosophy of separation.

[supertom]

Originally Posted by Steve Pavlina

Not lately.

Usually when I turn lucid, I look for some hot NPC to have sex with.

thats the first thing i did when i went lucid, I'm hoping is wasn't a spirit guide or something like that trying to reach me

[yoopersmith]

Originally Posted by jayh

Ok, I'm still digesting this article, and just getting more excited about it as time goes by. What is really blowing my mind right now is this: If we are all one consciousness, one being experiencing a dream, then what exists outside of the dream? Do we wake up when we die? Are there then other conscious entities in this next level of reality after death? Perhaps other "super" conscious beings that have just experienced a dream in a similar fashion. Would we really just be one with these higher beings too, but in another sort of subjective reality after death? Is there really only "one" consciousness, or do you think it's possible there is more than one?

Yeah, I get ya!! Seems like there are levels beyond this "earth" dream to me. Like a soul-level in which oneness is still separated to a lesser degree, but not deluded by perception as much. What that might be like, I have no idea, and I am also certain that I will find out in due time, and when i do find out, it will be more like remembering it's NO big deal.

[yoopersmith]

Originally Posted by borisg

So if our waking reality is a dream - is reality only accessed after we physically die?

I find it more helpful to use the dream metaphor to feel safe and secure and to be happy and playful.

Since perception blocks our access to truth (or reality) while in our bodies, we have this safe dream in which to play, dream and grow.

Reality will be there for you when your ready to get there...enjoy the RIDE!!!

[Ingenius]

Originally Posted by Steve Pavlina

Not lately.

Usually when I turn lucid, I look for some hot NPC to have sex with.

I do that too!! Unfortunately, I can't maintain lucidity for long and quickly something happens and I either wake up or succumb to believing what's going on in the dream (being the latter a strong effect in the "real" dream world, now that I think about it...).

Daniel.

[Angela]

Originally Posted by Ingenius

I do that too!! Unfortunately, I can't maintain lucidity for long

We NPC's HATE it when that happens!

I'm going to invent a new drug to take care of that: Lucivia.

[Tobias Zimpel]

Steve,

this post was like a whole post full of synchronicities for me. Bloody hell ;-)

I've also grown up in a non-loving family in kind of an abundance of material things. I've spent thousands of hours in front of my computer, programming, playing games, and later hanging around in bulletin board systems and then the internet.

I took pride out of being praised for my good school work by my teachers. And I'm still full of hatred, pain, anger, as well as fear, guilt and shame. How will I ever be able to release all of this, since it immensely blocks me from living the life I feel inspired to live. How can I work through this?

I try to center my life about giving, and I'm emotionally unable to receive (Do I deserve so?)

Currently, I'm poking through my iTunes library, feeling inspired by every single song that I listen to (have I ever listened to a song before instead of just hearing it?), and it blows me away.

I'm currently inspired to do the laundry - that's certainly a new one for me. But since I'm dreaming, there's just no reason not to enjoy the process of it.

Strange new world. It seems that this article has had some strange effect to (my?) consciousness, like an upgrade or an injection of awareness-raising energy.

Steve, I have a feeling that I will follow you into the rabbit hole not far from now.

I am You! ;-)

Tobias

[Smartass]

Kelly Rowland - Commander

"Turn the lights on"

Out of nowhere with no relation to the rest of the lyrics this line pops up. Not sang by the Kelly Rowland but some rapper who only sings that line in the song.

I googled this song right after I read about turning the lights on in the blog lol (btw I encourage you to watch the music video on youtube its awesome)

[scotticus]

Wow, powerful stuff. I want more.

This reminded me of the we-are-all-fragments-of-God perspective in the 2001 book "God's Debris" by the author of Dilbert.

My hangup with this perspective is I worry I could lose touch with reality-- get so wrapped up in feeling connection to others/myself that I stop critically evaluating my own beliefs. That is, have beliefs that feel right, and seem to produce good results, but are not true. I'm worried about the consequences of using a tool like this that I don't really understand. But, this trial seems less reckless than a lot of modern tech. Also, I've been reading Steve's blog for years, and this sort of perspective shift seems to have been wildly successful for him in the past. To me, subjective living seems like only one step up in audacity from some previous 30-day trials. Since polyphasic sleep and D/s had good outcomes, I suspect this will produce good results too.

[revcbh]

Books we find interesting:
Quantum Psychology - Robert Anton Wilson
Prometheus Rising - Robert Anton Wilson
Condensed Chaos - Phil Hine
Liber Null - Peter J. Caroll

The first, specifically, would find great application among those parts of us caught up in the belief that we know anything at all about Reality.

[ChrisG]

I heard "Smells Like Teen Spirit" on the radio once and downloaded it the next day- that happened in early 2007 when I was starting to undergo a major spiritual transition, one that in many ways continues to this day. I've been getting that lately with "Tell It To My Heart" by Taylor Dayne also.

This is an extremely fun thing to be happening, and I am so happy for you. It's a very powerful perspective on the world to consider. I've flirted with SR a couple times but what you're doing is so mindblowing I will have to give it a go someday.

Whenever I imagine my person as a projection in a dream world, I imagine a video game screen with a HP counter in the corner, weapon slots and all that stuff

I'm also reading a book which kind of hints at this stuff (Tantra by Osho) so it'll be interesting to see where that goes.

[Elfwing]

And I just checked a story list by an author I used to love, and she's since written a Star Trek fanfiction where the entire Voyager series was actually a dream.

Wow. The synchronicities are getting a bit crazy here!

[roxyruby]

Originally Posted by Steve Pavlina

I never go around killing people when I'm lucid dreaming. What would be the point of such violence? I see no reason for it now either. I'd just be attacking myself.

Knowing that you're dreaming doesn't suddenly turn you into a serial killer.

ok thats good, so you're not going to kill/hurt people because "it's ok cause they're just a dream...an image....nothing real"

I didn't really mean serial killer, I meant like maybe if you knew you were dreaming, you could do a test with killing someone, to see if they could come back to life by just imagining them coming back to life, since you are in control of the dream.

But we enjoy violence all the time. In movies, on TV, and in video/computer games.

So if life is just a dream, why enjoy violence only in those forms when you can go around in the "real world which is actually just a dream world" and killing or blowing up towns or whatever just for fun, then you could just imagine them back to life any way,

get a gun, shoot people, like you're playing a game, but it's real life, but it's ok cause it's just your dream you're in control of

Unless you don't watch/enjoy violence in movies/tv/games so violence has no interest for you, OR you may have a belief that the people in this dream world actually are real, or could be real, therefore you would feel too much emotional attachment for them and would be too upset/afraid to hurt or kill them

like why is violence ok to you in movies/tv/video games yet not ok on the "real" characters in your dream which are just as non-real as the characters in the movies/tv/video games?

"What would be the point of such violence? I see no reason for it now either. I'd just be attacking myself."

You went and saw Inception, that had a lot of violence in it. So you were attacking your self because you witnessed /created violence on dream characters. And Rachelle and the dream characters you care about are just as non-real as all those people that were killed in that movie Inception. You killed a lot of dream characters when you watched that movie! And maybe you say "but they're just actors..not real!" well every dream character you care about is just as non-real as the characters in that movie

so why is violence ok to you in movies/tv/video games yet not ok on the "real" characters in your dream which are just as non-real as the characters in the movies/tv/video games?

Why do I know there was violence in Inception? Oh, I didn't watch it, I just automatically know cause I'm just a made up figment of your imagination. XD

[anonymu]

Dreams can come true.

[Elfwing]

Roxy - maybe because we're not the characters in the video game? They're not part of us, living, breathing. They're pixels.

Also, my parents are watching Alice in Wonderland. Again. Okay, okay, I get it now! :P

[roxyruby]

Originally Posted by Elfwing

Roxy - maybe because we're not the characters in the video game? They're not part of us, living, breathing. They're pixels.

Also, my parents are watching Alice in Wonderland. Again. Okay, okay, I get it now! :P

according to this dream theory, our loved ones are just as non-real as video game and movie and tv characters....

they are all just made up inside our head, just neurons in our brain or whatever, since we are the only observer and participater in the universe.

According to this dream thory, our loved ones are not living and breathing, that is only our imagination, our dream, its all just an image and idea in our head.

[roxyruby]

wowwwww

I just got this idea....

from the perspective of this subjective dream reality SP talks about...

I am NOT poor, I have all the money in the world, I am RICH!!!

cause I went to the shops today, and my mother bought me a new outfit, even though I'm old enough that I should be buying clothes for my self....

So I was thinking that someone else bought it for me and feeling a bit ashamed about it even though they were happy to...

when from this perspective, it was MY money that bought the clothes!

And everyone that has donated money to me or bought something from me, it was ME giving money to my self!!!

How interesting to think about!

I only like this perspective cause it cause it makes me feel rich!

From this perspective, since everyone is me or a part of me, I have bought mansions, I have bought boats, clothing, real estate, hotels, shoes, handbags, furniture, landscaping, groceries, gifts, sponsored charities and philophrantic persuits etc

Made millions of dollars online...have millions of dollars in my bank account, live with my boyfriend, have my own house, have travelled all over the world and paid for trips all over the world..

Have been to the moon!!!

Am highly qualified in ever area imaginable...

Have been a president...

Top selling singer...top selling actress...

What an amazing perspective....

Unlikely to be true but its wierd and nice in a way and for a while to imagine

[impaul99]

Hi Steve - first of all, I absolutely loved this post. Not just because of the mind-baking subjective reality aspect of it, but also because of the emotional honestly you poured out from within.

The synchronicities within the post are freaky. For example last week I left the house to grab some fast food. After going through drive-thru I was pulling out of the parking lot and I had the inspiration to go see my friend who owns a hobby store instead of going home. I haven't seen him in over a year.

I followed my inspiration and went to see him. We visited for a while and I got inspired to buy an RC Car. Well, it's a monster truck rather than a car. Weird thing is that I already had like 5 RC Cars which I haven't played with for over a year so there was no logical reason for me to spend another $700 on another RC car. But I was inspired to actually sell my other RC's and buy this one, so I did that.

Much the same way you bought the iPad, I got the urge to buy this RC Car for really no logical reason. I have no idea what it's all about, but it's coming in on Tuesday and I'm really looking forward to playing with it.

What I'm thinking is that MAYBE this is our way of *allowing* ourselves to play with toys in our dream? Maybe we've been too practical (objective) and now it's time to start enjoying the toys?

Maybe buying a really impractical sports car is next? Or a $250,000 home theater system that its only 2% better than a $1,000 one?

Anyway, that's just one minor synchronicity. There are many others that are much deeper.

The coolest most amazing part of your post though is the part about receiving love. You brought forward a very good point / awareness within me about this. I think I've been doing the exact same thing as you. I have zero problem giving, but when it comes to receiving I only receive in very "sterile" or "unemotional" ways, deflecting most of the time.

You know, kind of like when you really help someone at the level of changing their life forever (such as your suicide prevention example) and when the person expresses their gratitude you do something like saying "Oh it was nothing."

Hmmmm....

Lots of good stuff in this article. Keep them coming.

By the way, the reason you felt inspired to get an iPod is because I was at Bestbuy a few weeks ago and saw one and I has a temporary subconscious thought of "I should play with one of those one day"

You're the character I created in my dream that gets the iPod.

Alright, which one of me's been implanting RC Car desires in our mind?

[impaul99]

Originally Posted by roxyruby

wowwwww

I just got this idea....

from the perspective of this subjective dream reality SP talks about...

I am NOT poor, I have all the money in the world, I am RICH!!!

You are rich. Think of "riches" as coming down in something called "Universal Value Points" instead of $$$$.

You have a crapload of UVP's coming into your life, and they express themselves in your life according to the hierarchy of your values.

The reason you don't have a big bank account balance is because you don't value wealth building and saving as much as your other values. Which is ok. It's totally you choice...

Check this out: YouTube - &#x202a;Dr John Demartini - The value of money&#x202c;&lrm;

[Savage]

@Roxy: Now you're finally getting it. You're already super rich. The whole world is yours.

You should visit all your property in Las Vegas -- you should come see all the cool stuff your subconscious mind has created here. It's quite an amazing playground now.

Your thoughts are creating, not observing. If you want more abundance flowing in your life, take control of the dream world by stating your desires as already true. Then let the dream world catch up and manifest them.

To observe something you don't like and comment on it, like "I'm broke," is a command to the dream world to create that experience for you.

There is persistence in the dream world because you keep creating the same things by observing and commenting on them.

Instead, state what you desire, as if it's already real.

I am doing that for you too. You're frakkin' rich, girl! You have so much money and abundance flowing to you so quickly that it's making everyone's head's spin. How the heck did Roxy turn that around so damned fast? Wow! Did you win the lottery or something?

[bunnyman]

Just remember to fall in love,
there's nothing else,

there's nothing else
(repeat)


Chemical Brothers - Swoon

[carenkh]

I felt like he was asking me something other than the surface question though, more like, “Are you the guy in charge of this dream?” It did not feel like a normal human interaction the way it played out. I continue my shop with the suspicious feeling that he’s on to me.

Several years ago, I recommitted to my meditation practice. I was wishing for a teacher - knowing that, ultimately, the teacher is within, I still wanted someone outside of me to help guide me. I had made peace with knowing that the teacher would appear when it was time for the teacher to appear, I wasn't stressed or anything.

I did think, though, it would be nice to get a sign I was heading in the right direction.

I went shopping, and so many things were just swirling around my brain, it took me a few minutes to notice that a man was looking at me - and when I finally noticed him, I saw that he looked like an Indian guru! Long white hair and beard, cotton clothes. We made eye contact and looked into each other's souls for what felt like ten minutes or so; it was probably more like 30 seconds. I just fell into his eyes. He turned and walked away, and I was thinking, "Should I follow him? Is that my teacher? Who is he?" but by the time I acted on my thought to at least find out who he was, he was gone. Nowhere to be seen. OK, that was odd. But cool.

I started thinking, "Man, I didn't even smile at him! We just looked at each other, and now he's gone. I should have at least smiled!" Right then, he showed up right in front of me, looked in my eyes and forced this HUGE smile, like: "Here! See?" I laughed out loud, feeling silly, and he turned and was gone again.

I had forgotten about that 'til I read what you wrote.

I love my funny reality.