Jed Thread........it's about time.

[StandardDeviate]

I think it's about time Jed Mckenna was introduced onto the "inspirational trial" and the "subjective reality" thing.

There a lot of questions going through minds (including Steve's), and I think Jed answers well, all of them.

He has a trilogy of books out, and he does a tremendous job combining the two virtues. I feel we are getting beyond this busting loose stuff, and Mckenna is a natural follow-up.

I met Jed a couple of years ago, and he is truly wonderous in a very modest way. He is enlightened. You know it when you read his writng, and you damn well know it when you walk into a room he is in, which is not likely to happen ever. He is a recluse, and will probably stay that way.

Anyway...I was inspired to start this thread so, whoever read Mckenna let's hear from you.

The Unlocked Cage

If you're not amazed by how naive you were yesterday,
you're standing still.

If you're not terrified of the next step,
you're eyes are closed.

If you're standing still and you're eyes are closed, then you're only dreaming you're awake.

A caged bird in a boundless sky.

Jed Mckenna

[Royce_aus]

It's interesting that I stumbled onto this thread tonight.

A few years ago I went through an audio version of the first book by Jed Mckenna. While I enjoyed it, I'm sure there are still things to learn and plan on going back to it.

When I listened to this book I wasn't quite sure how to take it. It was very inspiring at the time, and I think in part responsible (along with Steve) for motivating me to quit my job and hit the road.

I'm generally quite cynical, I'm always looking for some proof and so I went on an internet search to see what I could find. Being a recluse there wasn't much on the net about Jed, although there were theories that he was a made up name, so hearing that you've met him really got me to pay attention. I hadn't made the connection between what Steve's doing now and what I read in the first book by Jed (can't remember the word something like spiritual cleansing? cleaning out the attic of your ego)

sorry for going off track, have you read the second and third books? I'm interested in your opinion before I decide to lay any money down (my cynical self has saved me a lot of money, although at what price I'm not sure)

[StandardDeviate]

It's a pen name.

You should do only what your inspired to do. If the time is right, you know what to do. Jed correctly states that you should not follow or listen to anyone or anything. You should seek the truth, and only the truth for yourself.


That's why you won't find him. He is the finger pointing at the moon, and he doesn't want the focus on the finger.

[James81]

Originally Posted by StandardDeviate

That's why you won't find him.

What a mysterious guy, this Jed is.

[Crash]

Hi,

I've read all of Jed's books and they rank on the top of my personal list of books which inspired and influenced me the most, right beside "Haunted Universe" by Steve Norquist, which essentially tells the same story but in a much more hardcore way.

I truly think that Steve's at the brink of waking up right now. And what's really amazing for me is, that he's the very rare kind of person that lets us all participate on his journey down the rabbit hole. There aren't so much genuine reports to find of people who made the whole trip. Jed's second book includes snippets of a few e-mails of a girl whose assumptions of life fall apart when she realizes that it's all but a dream. But since we didn't know her so well "before", those writings are of reduced usefulness. Steve otoh is very well known to us, well, at least until a few blog posts ago. The new Steve that is emerging right now, may be a complete different caliber. I'd say, we better expect some radical surprises. Or not. ;-)

For me personally, I very much would like to make the trip myself, but there are some circumstances in my life that are seriously holding me back. Now, anyone can say "Come on, it's just a dream, get your ass up and move on...", but if I did that, the consequences would be too hard for me to fathom at this time. Talk about family, love, fear of loss etc. I know the price I'd have to pay and my decision is not to pay it. At least, not now.

Lets see, what happens to Steve next. It's all very interesting...

[impaul99]

Holy crap. These books look amazing.

You can even buy them as an iPhone App to start reading immediately.

Only thing that sucks is that I can't find a version for my Sony eBook Reader.

I'll probably buy the iPhone version of the first book to read, while I order in in paper copy along with the other three.

[Ecce Homo]

I found Jed's books very helpful. They aren't for everybody though, as the author himself makes abudantly clear.

Originally Posted by Crash

the consequences would be too hard for me to fathom at this time. Talk about family, love, fear of loss etc. I know the price I'd have to pay and my decision is not to pay it. At least, not now.

Well you wouldn't literally lose those things, only your ability to believe in any of it. Granted, that "loss" is a huge one because it changes your experience of everything, but still.

[Excellent Lodestar]

Haunted Universe is next on my reading list, though after David Carse's "perfect brilliant stillness" ,so much of little me that used to "seek" doesn't really see the point....
Mckenna is good reading as well.

[cylon]

Originally Posted by impaul99

Holy crap. These books look amazing.

You can even buy them as an iPhone App to start reading immediately.

Only thing that sucks is that I can't find a version for my Sony eBook Reader.

I'll probably buy the iPhone version of the first book to read, while I order in in paper copy along with the other three.

I downloaded the free sample chapter for my iPhone, it's interesting thus far.

[impaul99]

Originally Posted by cylon

I downloaded the free sample chapter for my iPhone, it's interesting thus far.

I changed my mind.

Going in a different direction in life.

[cylon]

Originally Posted by impaul99

I changed my mind.

Going in a different direction in life.

ha ha! Yeah it's some trippy stuff. Oh well, there's a cohesive theme running through everything, somewhere.

[Jasper]

Originally Posted by impaul99

I changed my mind.

Going in a different direction in life.

Deeper into the dream?

[StandardDeviate]

Amen jasper. 4 of the most profound words on this whole forum.

You are either waking up or you are dreaming (asleep.) It's that simple.

[Crash]

Originally Posted by Ecce Homo

Well you wouldn't literally lose those things, only your ability to believe in any of it. Granted, that "loss" is a huge one because it changes your experience of everything, but still.

Do you know what's funny? Intellectually I'm already at this point of not believing in anything. But emotionally there's still a connectedness that I cannot shed, because I still need some kind of proof, a revelation or something, that life is just a silly dream with no meaning and no belief is true.
I've literally read my ass off, bought books, studied websites just to get the one glimpse behind the curtain (to see that there's nothing) that gives me the final affirmation that it's ok to let go.

It's a head game. Mind**** at it's best.

[Jonathan Browne]

Have you guys ever thought that maybe all of these people including steve pavlina and every personal development author out there are just trying to make money by promoting their own personal ideas and maybe you shouldn't take everything they say so seriously?

Who the hell is to say wether this Jed guy is a purveyor of the ultimate truth at all.

is everyone really asleep vs. awake?

What's the difference between someone who just lives life "unenlightened" and someone who's "awake". They both eat, sleep, see, breath, etc.

I think it might be best not let this **** consume your thoughts and create a life which your satisfied with, on your own terms.

[Royce_aus]

Originally Posted by Jonathan Browne

Have you guys ever thought that maybe all of these people including steve pavlina and every personal development author out there are just trying to make money by promoting their own personal ideas and maybe you shouldn't take everything they say so seriously?

Who the hell is to say wether this Jed guy is a purveyor of the ultimate truth at all.

is everyone really asleep vs. awake?

What's the difference between someone who just lives life "unenlightened" and someone who's "awake". They both eat, sleep, see, breath, etc.

I think it might be best not let this **** consume your thoughts and create a life which your satisfied with, on your own terms.

I totally agree with this. No one has proved life to be any better from an enlightened or unenlightened state, it's a matter of personal taste and desires. However I enjoy reading books like this and sites like Steve's because I think they encourage a more conscious way of living, as in being conscious of what you're doing and the thoughts that create your actions.

[Jasper]

Those who are enlightened don't tell you that being awake is better than being asleep, I think.

It just so happens that many on this website are looking to wake up (or saying so). So for them, perhaps it is better.

To then point them in that direction, doesn't mean it's the direction everyone needs to take, it's just the direction you think they should take, to get to where they want to go.

If someone asks you directions to the closest supermarket, and you help them, you aren't saying everyone should go there and to not go there is bad. You are just helping the guy who wants to go to the supermarket...

PS: Isn't every writer trying to make money by 'promoting' their own personal ideas?

PS2: You shouldn't take things so seriously, period... at least, it works for me

[Ecce Homo]

Originally Posted by Crash

Intellectually I'm already at this point of not believing in anything.

Are you sure that’s true?

But emotionally there's still a connectedness that I cannot shed, because I still need some kind of proof, a revelation or something, that life is just a silly dream with no meaning and no belief is true.

Ah but most emotions are thought incarnate, thinking made flesh. Or so it seems to me. So I’d say that actually the emotional connectedness you refer to reveals that you still believe, on some level, in the things you think you don’t believe in. Be with the emotion, then follow it back by letting it speak its truth for truth’s sake. Then inquire.

I've literally read my ass off, bought books, studied websites just to get the one glimpse behind the curtain (to see that there's nothing) that gives me the final affirmation that it's ok to let go.

Focus on who wants to get a glimpse behind the curtain. I know. That’s old hat, right? You’re read it all before. Still a good pointer though. Who is it that wants to finally let go? Let go of what, by the way? Is it possible to hold onto something? You know the drill.

It's a head game. Mind**** at it's best.

Don’t you love it?

[Jonathan Browne]

I'm not saying there is anything wrong with them making money from their ideas. I'm just saying that it's prolly better to take it all with a grain of salt.

Im starting to think the truest form of "enlightenment" is when you start to move beyond all these personal development concepts and start to trust yourself.

I mean you could spend years reading about the Law of Attraction, reading Tony Robbins, reading Jed Mckenna, reading reading reading and not really do anything with your life.

I'm not saying these aren't useful books but i'd say, go ahead, read it, but just take whats useful for you, put the book down, and LIVE YOUR LIFE.

To me the ultimate satisfaction in life is just to decide what you would like to do with your life and what's important to you, which is a personal decision, and I think is just fine wether it's small and unambitious, or large and grandious. Then put your heart into achieving what it is you've decided you like to do. Chances are if your clear on what you want to do, and you put your heart and your efforts into achieving that goal, I think you'll eventually reach it.

It will be a great adventure and a joy to make progress toward what you desire. Then when your in the final chapter of your life you can be satisfied with how you lived your life, and hopefully be able to share your knowledge of how you created a satisfying life with the youth.

I don't think you need to make some relentless search for truth like this guy jed mckenna is advocating. I personally think that would be quite distracting from actually living life.

[Ecce Homo]

To but in here...

I really liked this:

Originally Posted by Jasper

Those who are enlightened don't tell you that being awake is better than being asleep, I think...

If someone asks you directions to the closest supermarket, and you help them, you aren't saying everyone should go there and to not go there is bad. You are just helping the guy who wants to go to the supermarket...

AND this:

Originally Posted by Jonathan Browne

Im starting to think the truest form of "enlightenment" is when you start to move beyond all these personal development concepts and start to trust yourself...

I'm not saying these aren't useful books but i'd say, go ahead, read it, but just take whats useful for you, put the book down, and LIVE YOUR LIFE.

Ok, carry on.

[Crash]

Originally Posted by Ecce Homo

Are you sure that’s true?

I don't know. Is it? Feels true, though. Sure, when I'm just living out my daily life as it is now, with my family and all the drama that comes with it, I usually get pretty much lost in my role and unconsciuos of "the dreamer" (for lack of a better word). I guess that's what you mean when you question my statement.

Originally Posted by Ecce Homo

Ah but most emotions are thought incarnate, thinking made flesh. Or so it seems to me. So I’d say that actually the emotional connectedness you refer to reveals that you still believe, on some level, in the things you think you don’t believe in. Be with the emotion, then follow it back by letting it speak its truth for truth’s sake. Then inquire.

Been there, done that. Emotions are thoughts filtered through beliefs. And since no belief is true, emotions are lies, too. I know all that. But it hurts nevertheless.

Originally Posted by Ecce Homo

Focus on who wants to get a glimpse behind the curtain. I know. That’s old hat, right? You’re read it all before. Still a good pointer though. Who is it that wants to finally let go? Let go of what, by the way? Is it possible to hold onto something? You know the drill.

See above. I'm tired of it. There must be some other way to get around that friggin wall in my head.

Originally Posted by Ecce Homo

Don’t you love it?

You bet.

[Ecce Homo]

Crash:

I know man. It can be frustrating as hell. Keep inquiring if getting beyond the gateless gate (or to reference your words, the walless wall) is what you want. Since this is a Jed thread, you can keep doing that spiritual autolysis thing, which boils down to asking, is it true? Keep attacking the wall until you see for yourself that there is no wall and never was.

You up to talking about what the wall is comprised of for you personally and why this hurts?

[Jasper]

Originally Posted by Jonathan Browne

I'm not saying there is anything wrong with them making money from their ideas. I'm just saying that it's prolly better to take it all with a grain of salt.

Im starting to think the truest form of "enlightenment" is when you start to move beyond all these personal development concepts and start to trust yourself.

I mean you could spend years reading about the Law of Attraction, reading Tony Robbins, reading Jed Mckenna, reading reading reading and not really do anything with your life.

I'm not saying these aren't useful books but i'd say, go ahead, read it, but just take whats useful for you, put the book down, and LIVE YOUR LIFE.

To me the ultimate satisfaction in life is just to decide what you would like to do with your life and what's important to you, which is a personal decision, and I think is just fine wether it's small and unambitious, or large and grandious. Then put your heart into achieving what it is you've decided you like to do. Chances are if your clear on what you want to do, and you put your heart and your efforts into achieving that goal, I think you'll eventually reach it.

It will be a great adventure and a joy to make progress toward what you desire. Then when your in the final chapter of your life you can be satisfied with how you lived your life, and hopefully be able to share your knowledge of how you created a satisfying life with the youth.

I don't think you need to make some relentless search for truth like this guy jed mckenna is advocating. I personally think that would be quite distracting from actually living life.

I am not disagreeing with you, I think.
I think you are actually pointing to the one truth that matters, the one you yourself come to and agree with...

You'll search as much as you have to. If you don't have to, than don't, you might have already found it.

If you haven't found it, and part of what you believe isn't what you really believe, it'll probably turn up eventually, and you can continue from there...

or not

[Richard_Todd]

Originally Posted by Jasper

PS: Isn't every writer trying to make money by 'promoting' their own personal ideas?

It's interesting, that's actually why I'm getting rich from my trading first... so that when I write/speak/teach it won't be the slightest bit about making money. For me the ideal is to reach self-sufficiency and then start giving with the purest motivation, and for free.

[cylon]

I'm almost done with the first book.

A couple thoughts: 1--everyone should be free to explore their own journey without anonymous naysayers saying "don't you dare make independent thoughts about your life." 2--I'm the one who creates the naysayers. Strike point 1.

I like the book and his writing style. One thing that pleased me is he didn't get into the holier than thou "to be truly enlightened is to beyond the materialistic needs for things like money and possessions, blah blah" can't stand that mindset--that to be "awake" means you have to stop enjoying playing in the world and having toys. He makes a couple passing references to manifestation so I know he does understand how things work, and that he does get what he needs before he realizes he needs it.

What I don't like: in a book about being awake he spends most of his time asleep. If it's a dream, and he's creating it, he is not conscious of that because he continuously points out how "unenlightened" other people are, what their motivations are, the likelihood of them waking up, he repeatedly says that there are only a handful of enlightened people alive at any given moment, etc.

Well if you're truly awake, you don't have thoughts like those because you realize there ARE no other people that have motivations, are unenlightened, and that he is somehow special. He doesn't seem to acknowledge everything is his creation. He criticizes the thousands of New Age books in his library not accepting that he himself is the author of everything in his experience.

He seems to acknowledge this a bit in his little talks with Maya, but that is where the focus should have been all the time... not on if there are "other people" who aren't up to his level. So at least he acknowledges he's still asleep here and there.

So what I'm saying is that according to this non-duality model it makes no sense to walk around saying "you're awake!" or "you aren't awake yet!" The whole point is that those people aren't even really there to begin with. You're just looking in a mirror basically saying "awake!" "not awake!".

Then of course I have to go back a level and accept that I am the one creating this, and that my concerns about the book are really about my own being asleep to the point that I created a character named Jed who wrote a book I can pick apart in the first place.

When I go back a level like that I see the complete irrelevance of me even talking about it at all. Strange.

[cylon]

Originally Posted by Jonathan Browne

Im starting to think the truest form of "enlightenment" is when you start to move beyond all these personal development concepts and start to trust yourself.

That's the lesson of the book, to move beyond any external authority and use your own judgment. So you realized the moral of the book without having to read it. It's just that it can take years to fully know, deep down, what you just said. Not on an intellectual level.

[Jasper]

Originally Posted by Richard_Todd

It's interesting, that's actually why I'm getting rich from my trading first... so that when I write/speak/teach it won't be the slightest bit about making money. For me the ideal is to reach self-sufficiency and then start giving with the purest motivation, and for free.

Sounds great!

I do believe that not all writers are just promoting their ideas to make money. Making money is like the bonus that follows out of their actions.

They have this idea they would like to share. They wouldn't even mind if they got nothing in return, as long as the idea is shared. This could be because they feel the idea is of great importance and they would love for others to be aware of it. Or it could be that the writer wants to show his work like a child shows his drawing, "look at me" "look what I've made" and claim the inspiration of the idea as part of himself, making him more/special/ego stuff.

Or it's a little bit of both.

And that's all without looking at the "i would love to make money" part .

I think if you want to share for free, that is part of the choice. Another part is, why share, at all?

And if you share, and people like, you'll get money. Not because it's right or wrong or good or evil (money, I mean), but because that's how the system is setup. Money is trading value for future value.

If your book is liked, you have created value (you can discuss the value of that value of course, but that's not the point here). You then get an IOU from society that say, you can get value back at some point, if you wish.

Nothing wrong with that.

If you start with "how can i get an IOU from society" and you create value from there, I think it'll be harder for you and less satisfying, but I'm not sure. Perhaps this can work out fine too.

I guess what I'm saying is, I don't think all writers promote their ideas to make money. I'm not even sure if they all do it to sell books, although I'd imagine that is fine if they do. They wrote it and would like people to read it. And that might not be about money at all .

[cylon]

There's plenty of money to go around. To want to deny it to others means you are not allowing it for yourself. And even if you do make a lot of money, I don't think you'd enjoy it as much as you would if you were ok with everyone else making a lot of money.

Abundance mindset: everyone deserves to be happy, healthy, and wealthy.

Scarcity mindset: only if they meet my strict requirements.

[Crash]

Originally Posted by Ecce Homo

Crash:
You up to talking about what the wall is comprised of for you personally and why this hurts?

Sure, why not - it's just a f***ing game anyway.

My wall, as I said above, is built out of my love for my family and all implications that come with it. I could not stand the pain of losing them and that's what would happen if I'd choose the rather selfish way Jed describes in his books. He even uses my kind of case as a sort of no-go-example. I simply would cause mayhem if I did it and I'm not ready to carry that burden yet.
That's my wall. My hope is that I live long enough to get the kids out of house and stand on their own feet and to help my wife to get financial abundance and independence from me. In other words, I first have to sort out the chaos that I created unconsciously before I can move on and try to do something with full awareness of the consequences. That'll be in around 20 years from now. In the meantime, I'm kind of putting my search on hold. Unless, of course, someone shows me a way to have my cake and eat it, too (which is impossible, but hope dies last, you know ).

[Ecce Homo]

@Crash:

Ok, it sounds like you have made a fitting decision, one that you believe is wise and best for yourself and the people you love. I acknowledge and respect (see, take notice of) that. Bear that in mind when I ask the following questions:

If there is a “wall” between you and what I call nondual clarity, then you cannot know what is on the other side, can you? If you don’t know what it is, then how can you be so sure that you have to lose your family in order to “obtain” it? And saying Jed McKenna said so doesn’t count in this game, right? As you know, you are your own authority. You get to decide. To paraphrase the old Buddhist saying, if you meet Jed McKenna on the road kill him.

Are you really putting off your own “spiritual growth” to spare your family from bearing a burden they may or may not actually have to bear? Or is it yourself you are trying to spare? How can you be so sure that putting this off is selfish anyway? Couldn’t it be just as possible that seeing yourself for what you actually are might be the most unselfish thing you could do for those you love?

If you wait until you have to clear the chaos, to use your word, won't you be waiting forever? Doesn't the untrained mind routinely create some kind of chaos where there is none? Besides which, nondual clarity isn't found in a future. It can only be seen now. What requires a future can't be real in and of itself, can it? Again, I know you've read all this before, so nothing new there.

Just what do you think enlightenment/awakening/whatever is anyway?

To reiterate, you know yourself and your situation better than anyone and I believe that you believe that you can’t find clarity and have a family at the same time. I don’t see the truth in that of course. It looks like one of those false dichotomies (aka dualisms) to me, but what I see doesn’t amount to a hill of beans as far as your life is concerned. I get that. Feel free to advise me to f#ck off if you think that's necessary.

Besides, last I heard we’re just figments of Steve Pavlina’s warped imagination anyway!