re: Ask Steve - Parenting

[openeyes]

http://www.stevepavlina.com/blog/200...eve-parenting/

While reading the above post, Steve mentions not wanting his kids to be traditionally schooled, but not having time for homeschooling. He also wants his kids to be able to make their own choices. For anyone that feels that way, I highly recommend checking out the "unschooling" movement.

You can simply google unschooling or check out some of the links below:

Unschooling

"What is "unschooling?" Unschooling is what happens when human beings learn outside the four walls of a school building, at the time and place of their choosing and with the subjects and materials of their choice. It is when children are not forced to learn according to some pre-determined timetable or set of learning objectives. It is a form of education which takes into account and fulfills each child's individual needs and goals, and trusts in the ability of each child to direct his or her own education. It is creative, spontaneous, and remarkable...unlike a structured school education."

Unschooling - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

"Unschooling contrasts with other forms of home education in that the student's education is not directed by a teacher and curriculum. Although unschooling students may choose to make use of teachers or curricula, they are ultimately in control of their own education. Students choose how, when, why, and what they pursue. Parents who unschool their children act as "facilitators," providing a wide range of resources, helping their children access, navigate, and make sense of the world, and aiding them in making and implementing goals and plans for both the distant and immediate future. Unschooling expands from children's natural curiosity as an extension of their interests, concerns, needs, goals, and plans."

For people who are just starting off as parents (actually anyone could benefit from learning about it), I also recommend googling "attachment parenting".

[carenkh]

Thanks, openeyes. I'm so glad to be unschooling with my boys. I'm very interested in The Sudbury Valley School, too.

This isn't about schooling, but I've learned so much through Living Consensually - it's been essential in how I've grown as a parent.

[Jill]

The Sudbury Valley School is actually in the next town over from me. I looked into it many years ago, but it seemed just a bit too unstructured for my kids. (It might work for a certain type.)

I would highly recommend Montessori schools for preschool through 6th grade or so. It's got structure and order, but allows the children to learn at their own pace through hands on materials. Montessori really saved my kids' self esteem when the public schools had knocked it out of them.

[neilarthur]

Having read this article I was reminded of a book called Juggling Elephants

It is a book about time management but it relates very well to Steve's concerns about dividing his time between parenting and his other goals and committments.

It is an easy and fun read.

I have added some key ideas below:

The ideas are based on a metaphor of your life as a three-ring circus and you are the ringmaster - the 3 rings can be whatever you like but generally it is work(mission), relationships, personal

The ringmaster cannot be in all three rings at once.

The ringmaster always reviews the next act before bringing it into the ring.

The key to success is having quality acts in all three rings.

There is no shortage of acts for the circus.

Every act must serve a purpose.

Not all acts belong in my circus.

Line up acts in the order that makes the best performance.

Schedule major acts at different times.

What ring should I be in at the moment?
What acts should I be focussing on right now?

Steps

List the acts that should be in each ring

Review the list of acts

Look for new acts to bring in

Line up the acts

Determine how to make the existing acts successful

[Lupe]

Steve's take on unschooling

[Kathe76]

I did not have the time either, I simply hired someone with the credentials to teach, and the firm understanding of what I would and would not accept. I live in Las Vegas as well and the rules on homeschooling are simple. Turn in the paperwork to the school system stating you wish to homeschool, and thats it. Get whatever cirriculum you wish to use and make sure that when hiring a teacher you are firm with them on what will and wont be accepted. The great thing here is that you do not have to put your child through any state testing to make sure they are up to date. Our teacher is here 3 hours a day or so, and the kids have maybe an hour of homework a night. Standard rate for tutoring as they call it is 30 an hour. Its doable if you really want to do it and so worth it.

[James81]

I was a member of a message board a few years ago that supported attachment parenting. And the interesting thing I discovered about most of the women who actually DID use attachment parenting was that they all pretty much complained that their kids were hellians.

The discipline methods of attachment parenting are severely lacking IMO.

[Gene]

Originally Posted by Kathe76

I did not have the time either, I simply hired someone with the credentials to teach, and the firm understanding of what I would and would not accept. I live in Las Vegas as well and the rules on homeschooling are simple. Turn in the paperwork to the school system stating you wish to homeschool, and thats it.

It's nice to know that Las Vegas is home school friendly.

[carenkh]

Originally Posted by James81

I was a member of a message board a few years ago that supported attachment parenting. And the interesting thing I discovered about most of the women who actually DID use attachment parenting was that they all pretty much complained that their kids were hellians.

The discipline methods of attachment parenting are severely lacking IMO.

Many parents know in their hearts they do not want to punish, coerce or manipulate their kids, so they step back from that. The problem comes in when they don't know what to substitute for it! Then the kids are left feeling alone, and the parents are sure "this doesn't work" because the kids aren't "behaving". So the parents, despite their gut feelings, start in half-heartedly with punishments and consequences, the kids aren't listened to, and it can become a big mess!

To be successful, it requires a whole paradigm shift, a rethinking of the parent-child relationship, and consequent dropping of outmoded ways of being and thinking. When you stop requiring that your kids do what YOU think they should be doing, and you start to partner with them rather than control them, the way becomes more clear. It's not leaving the kids on their own, and it's not controlling or coercing them - it's living in close, connected relationship with WHO THEY ARE. That is attachment parenting.

It's such a different way of living that goes against most parenting advice, parents have to really be willing to work at it, work on themselves and look at old beliefs, and be willing to ignore naysayers (which will more than likely be most of their family). They'll need to keep looking at their kids, and their relationship with their kids, rather than outside advice, to take stock of how things are going.

Personally, I'm very grateful for other radical unschoolers who were willing to share their lives, experience, and thoughts on unschooling email lists, I think I would have been rather lost without that guidance.

[Kathe76]

Originally Posted by Gene

It's nice to know that Las Vegas is home school friendly.

Yes Las Vegas is very good with the homeschooling department. I believe that we have three or four charter home schools, that are run by the state, but your kids work at home, and then if you choose your own study course, they are very easy to work with.

[James81]

Originally Posted by carenkh

Many parents know in their hearts they do not want to punish, coerce or manipulate their kids, so they step back from that. The problem comes in when they don't know what to substitute for it! Then the kids are left feeling alone, and the parents are sure "this doesn't work" because the kids aren't "behaving". So the parents, despite their gut feelings, start in half-heartedly with punishments and consequences, the kids aren't listened to, and it can become a big mess!

To be successful, it requires a whole paradigm shift, a rethinking of the parent-child relationship, and consequent dropping of outmoded ways of being and thinking. When you stop requiring that your kids do what YOU think they should be doing, and you start to partner with them rather than control them, the way becomes more clear. It's not leaving the kids on their own, and it's not controlling or coercing them - it's living in close, connected relationship with WHO THEY ARE. That is attachment parenting.

It's such a different way of living that goes against most parenting advice, parents have to really be willing to work at it, work on themselves and look at old beliefs, and be willing to ignore naysayers (which will more than likely be most of their family). They'll need to keep looking at their kids, and their relationship with their kids, rather than outside advice, to take stock of how things are going.

Personally, I'm very grateful for other radical unschoolers who were willing to share their lives, experience, and thoughts on unschooling email lists, I think I would have been rather lost without that guidance.

Whether what you are saying is true or not, it still doesn't change the fact that the people I know who do this have some of the most unruly, misbehaved, spoiled kids I know.

It's one thing to connect with your children like that (I think I personally do the same thing myself, yet I still discipline my kids), it's something else to let them run wild and do whatever they want. There's a REASON why we discipline our kids, and it has nothing to do with forcing our will upon them and everything to do with teaching them how to interact with people. Attachment parents like to say people like me are abusing my children for spanking them once in a while, but I personally look at someone who doesn't discipline their child as the real child abuser because the lack of discipline is doing far more damage to the child than an occasional tap to the bottom.

[Illustro Cado]

As I see it, any good punishment is related to consequence. It's cause and effect in action, nothing more. You're not grateful for the food I've given you? Fine, you don't get to eat tonight. You're spending too much time with your gadgets to get your chores/schoolwork done? Off they go, into a locked cabinet. You're gonna swear at me? I'll completely ignore you until you apologize.

In each situation above, there's a link to real world consequences-you will not get invited for dinner if you insult the cook, you won't have money for entertaining gadgets if you never do any work, and people won't stomach somebody that's not pleasant (on some level) to deal with. Parents that are scared to death of becoming the bad guy end up sheltering their kids from cause and effect and the result is social dysfunction. Real social dysfunction-not ADD or some bs like that.

I'm all for a cooperative parenting method. Cater to the child's interests, encourage them to figure out who they are and delve into their passions. But teach them discipline or none of that will do them any good. Friendship comes later in life, when they're grown up and independent. Until then you're there to protect them from doing any long-term damage to themselves while teaching them habits that'll come in handy when it's their turn to make their way in the world.

[kedzer]

Originally Posted by Illustro Cado

You're not grateful for the food I've given you? Fine, you don't get to eat tonight. You're spending too much time with your gadgets to get your chores/schoolwork done? Off they go, into a locked cabinet. You're gonna swear at me? I'll completely ignore you until you apologize.

I don't see these as natural consequences - I see them as power plays by the stronger party. (And by the way, I've never seen a parent who has always been completely calm and respectful to/around their child get sworn at by that child.)

Originally Posted by Illustro Cado

...real world consequences-you will not get invited for dinner if you insult the cook, you won't have money for entertaining gadgets if you never do any work, and people won't stomach somebody that's not pleasant (on some level) to deal with.

Ah, now THAT'S more like it.

Originally Posted by Illustro Cado

Parents that are scared to death of becoming the bad guy end up sheltering their kids from cause and effect and the result is social dysfunction....

...you're there to protect them from doing any long-term damage to themselves

These interesting paradigms are why much parental 'discipline' is actually fear-based parenting.

You don't have to be scared for your children. Honestly. They can handle reality and *real* (not artificially-derived) consequences better than you might guess.

[kedzer]

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/15/health/15mind.html?em

Of course, I could always find another study to contradict these, but that's the nature of life...

I just recommend you do a gut check when you interact with your kid (or anyone - there should be no difference, really), and if there's anger or fear there, just *stop.* Stop and figure your own thing out before you go and try to 'fix' them and their 'problem.'

Here's a short essay with a brilliant, simple, oft forgotten message that is helpful to keep in mind as we interact with the people we live, work and play with.

What the heck, let's end with Alan, shall we? Only tangentially relevant, but I never get tired of this video.

(If anyone can find the vid where alan talks about how we as parents tell our kids that there are all these rules to life, and we know them all so just pay attention to us and learn the rules, etc., etc., please point me to it!)

[kedzer]

Originally Posted by James81

There's a REASON why we discipline our kids, and it has nothing to do with forcing our will upon them and everything to do with teaching them how to interact with people.

Ok, let's go with the theory that disciplining children teaches them how to interact with people better....

Were your parents strict disciplinarians? And did you, as a result of this, develop the ability to create strong, healthy long-term relationships (forming better relationships, let's say, than the average person might)?

Maybe being disciplined early on caused you to perform exceptionally well, and thus feel really good about yourself and your capabilities -- which enabled you to relate to people with great confidence, for example?

This topic of parenting interests me so much. I think there's a lot we all just assume, and I enjoy poking at the boundaries of our beliefs. I tell my son that he's an (uncontrolled) experiment in mid-flight. And he just rolls his eyes at me.

[bunnyman]

Originally Posted by kedzer

I tell my son that he's an (uncontrolled) experiment in mid-flight. And he just rolls his eyes at me.

Ha! Every experiment should have a control. Do you have another kid?

[Illustro Cado]

Originally Posted by kedzer

I don't see these as natural consequences - I see them as power plays by the stronger party. (And by the way, I've never seen a parent who has always been completely calm and respectful to/around their child get sworn at by that child.)

It's all in how you do it. If you demand unquestioning obedience, it's a power play. If you do as much as you can to correlate it with real life, it's a lesson. You're not always going to have ideal circumstances to teach through cause and effect alone so creating circumstances under which cause and effect are simulated is a smart idea. Indeed, sometimes it's the best way to get the child to grasp something because you can make it relatable.

Say with the gadgets, instead of taking them away, note how much time the child spends with them instead of doing things around the house, taking care of themselves, or playing outside. If the child wants to do nothing but play with his gadgets, shut the power off. Tell him that because he hasn't done anything he hasn't earned enough money to pay the power bill, then hand him a list of tasks that are each worth a certain dollar amount and list the total necessary to turn the power back on down at the bottom. He can complete any of those tasks in any order to reach the amount at the bottom. And of course when the child is old enough, don't buy anything for him. Give him tasks he can do in exchange for money. Not an allowance, but a salary. Put a cap on what he can earn and tell him that if he wants more money he should go around town and see what tasks other people will pay him to do. As I see it, that's far more reasonable (not to mention more effective) than simply unplugging the power cord from the video game system and storing it in the closet.