Lightworker vs Darkworker labels are a sham

[Still Growing]

This topic got started with Steve discussion of polarity which I loved!

The dictionary states that polarity is an "Intrinsic polar separation, alignment, or orientation, especially of a physical property" The first thing that comes to mind is electricity. Now we know if you try to run both charges at the same time they will cancel each other out. On that we can all agree.

The problem comes now when we say “Because positive and negative energy cannot flow at the same time then therefore we must conclude that only one charge will work within the same person”

Most people do think either negatively or positively, most people do work either out of fear or out of love. But can we therefore conclude that all people must only work with one?

Have you ever seen someone surprise you with their behavior? They may say they were in a bad mood or they’re just particular about a certain thing but it shows that people are complex and ever changing. In life we cannot clearly point out who is a sith and who is a jedi. We can find successful people who are fear based and some who are love based but that does not conclude that one is Evil and one is good.

It is possible to break down people's motivation most of the time and some people are just focused inward and some are simply focused outward but you cannot conclude that these people are always focused inward or outward. You may say they are generally focused inward or outward.

If you write a blog about helping but you aren't really trying to help people it won't work very effectively. Steve's blog is primarily about giving and about the outward; thats why its successful. Steve has a lot to give because he has taken in so much knowledge in the past. Does this mean that while Steve was acquiring this knowledge he was Dark and now that he’s giving it back he’s automatically Light? Is it possible for him to have both motivations? I think yes. Maybe not at the same time but sometimes he can think that its awesome he’s making money and getting to work from home. Then an hour later he can feel good about all the people’s lives he’s effecting in a positive manner. He can have both inward and outward polarities on the same subject and still be effective as long as he focuses on one polarity at a time.

If you see a little old lady getting robbed and you risk your life to defend her you’ll be focuses on giving. Reflecting back you can even derive pleasure for how cool it made you look in front of your girlfriend. You basic intent was based upon a positive polarity and through your mind the energy can flow for a brief time in a negative polarity and bring you joy.


So who gets to be labeled a DARKWORKER and who gets to be labeled a LIGHTWORKER. Who am I? Am I both? Do I have to choose to be a Jedi or a Sith right now?

The label of Lightworker or Darkwork is an over generalization that can be used in many but not all cases.

My whole problem with polarity as it relates to to Lightworker vs Darkworker is that you cannot accurately draw a direct correlation between the two. Because all As are Bs it doesn't mean all Bs are As. To make that jump is kind of like whats happening with polarity.

I don't like the term Lightworker but the fact that all Lightworkers use positive energy does not lead to the conclusion that all Lightworkers never use negative polarities. So am I being a Lightworker now because I want to give people my perspective to help others or am I trying to bring inward support from others as some type of gratification? I’m not sure I know but I love this site! I’m feeling love based right now.

[Savage]

As I noted in the blog, the vast majority of people are neither lightworkers or darkworkers. These are to be considered as options, not obligations.

[seeker5]

Personally, I have a lot of problems with the terms lightworker vs. darkworkers. While Steve does mention that although he himself prefers being a lightworkers, he does state either one are fine. However, the problem comes that lightworkers with the Star Wars analogy are the good guys, and darkworkers are the bad guys. Many people who haven't read everything and thought about it in details will assume that just as well that darkworkers are the bad guys while lightworkers are the good guys.

However, it seems to me that there are many instances of people who could try a lightworker approach and end up hurting a lot of people, whereas the darkworker ends up doing the exact opposite and helps a lot of people. There can be instances where people wanting to stop darkworkers believing they are hurting people, when in fact the darkworker would end up helping a lot of people.

For example, someone who seek to be a lightworker and seeking to help others can:
- Rob the rich to help the poor, ala socialist and communist style system.
- believe that because they have the general welfare in mind, they are willing to treat a few people very badly, for the good of all.
- force people to follow a specific policy because they wrongly believe it will help (a number of government policies, some of which are dangerous)

On the other hand, darkworkers can be very generous and very helpful toward others because they know it helps them a lot. For example (and I do consider myself leaning toward darkworker orientation), I'm getting straight A's in my classes because I fear failing in my classes. Some of my classmates are asking for my help, and I willingly help them study for their tests because I know it'll help me learn the material, and I make friends out of it. My classmates end up benefiting as I do by my selfish intention and my fears.

Other examples of darkworkers benefiting society is their knowledge that if they lie, cheat, rob others, treat others unfairly, it will bite them hard. Thus they can be more ethical then a lightworker-leaning person who does not have such ethics and will do whatever it takes to help people.

Like Ayn Rand says, having someone being very selfish can turn out to help so many people out there. In fact not allowing people to be selfish can do tremendous harm society as a whole, i.e. communism again, and the restriction of innovations and new development and new enterprises.

While Steve knows all of this, these light vs. darkworkers terms cause confusion, and can be dangerous if carried to the extreme.

There are other reasons too these terms may not be the best - with the fear-based approach of being a darkworker, you only experience the fear at the initial outset or when you falter. Most of the time, you experience a sense of power, of achievement, of being driven while you're moving toward your goals. So while it is fear-based, it is not a fear-lived life (let me know if I'm wrong on this point).

So I'd just like to propose some terms that may better suit the purpose of explaining the different between the outflow and inflow model:

- Loveworker vs selfworker (love flows out, self flows inward).

Isn't this a more accurate and more intuitive description of what's going on? This avoids all of the long explanation that no, darkworker doesn't mean someone is evil, and you can easier help people get a grasp of what's going on. It also helps darkworker-oriented people accept that no they themselves aren't evil, and that simply being a lightworker doesn't mean you're a good person - you also have to act with integrity and the correct principles for you to help out people.

Maybe those aren't good enough? Are there other possible terms?

[JJH]

If the Star Wars analogy Steve uses is correct for his explanation of Polarity, then Loveworker & Selfworker would not be accurate terms.

Anakin did not seek power for himself, he was turned to the darkside through the fear of the loss of a loved one - attachment to the world of form.

[Andrew Brunelle]

I guess when you really look at it, neither are good or bad, it is just a way of living your life in harmony with one of the two polarities and you will get better results. Neither one is good or bad, they both are there to pursue. It is your choice to pick one, the other, or not at all. So choose what you feel is your best choice and that should be it. There is no stigma on either one of them, so let's stop calling one side evil and the other "god-like."

[seeker5]

Originally Posted by JJH

If the Star Wars analogy Steve uses is correct for his explanation of Polarity, then Loveworker & Selfworker would not be accurate terms.

Anakin did not seek power for himself, he was turned to the darkside through the fear of the loss of a loved one - attachment to the world of form.

Well, perhaps Anakin didn't want to lose that connection he had with his loved one. Sometimes, when someone loves, they are only concerned about what they get out of it - and perhaps that was the case here. Perhaps Anakin was simply scared of losing his women and the love he got out of it, thus being primarily concerned with self. Kind of like the fear of losing a highly loved car...or an object, or a feeling you get from an activity - still comes from self-orientation.

If I understand the polarity correctly (and perhaps I don't), it seems that darkworkers think about primarily themselves - and are afraid of bad things that may happen to themselves and thus orient toward that. Whereas lightworkers primarily want to spread out love toward others - do things for others. Thus the suggestions of the terms selfworkers and loveworkers.

[seeker5]

Originally Posted by Andrew Brunelle

I guess when you really look at it, neither are good or bad, it is just a way of living your life in harmony with one of the two polarities and you will get better results. Neither one is good or bad, they both are there to pursue. It is your choice to pick one, the other, or not at all. So choose what you feel is your best choice and that should be it. There is no stigma on either one of them, so let's stop calling one side evil and the other "god-like."

Well, even though you say not to, there is still a stigma attached to the darkworker term - from reading through all the comments here, so many people made comments related to darkworker being bad and having to watch out for them. I do realize Steve probably may not have meant it that way. It's not easy to not call one not evil when you have the "dark" side to it, which unequivocally means evil in starwars terms.

[JJH]

Originally Posted by seeker5

Well, perhaps Anakin didn't want to lose that connection he had with his loved one. Sometimes, when you love someone, you are only concerned about what you get out of it - and perhaps that was the case here. Perhaps Anakin was simply scared of losing his women and the love he got out of it, thus being primarily concerned with self. Kind of like the fear of lose a car...or an object, or a feeling you get from an activity - still comes from self-orientation.

If I understand the polarity correctly (and perhaps I don't), it seems that darkworkers think about primarily themselves - and are afraid of bad things that may happen to themselves and thus orient toward that. Whereas lightworkers primarily want to spread out love toward others - do things for others. Thus the suggestions of the terms selfworkers and loveworkers.

You're right. That's pretty much why I can't buy into the whole light/darkworker thing. The dark polarity is not congruent with higher levels of consciousness ~ unless Steve would care to elaborate (again...)

Here's another thought: If light n' darkworkers only make up about 1% of the population (as Steve says), then what does this have to do with general personal development? Is he suggesting we pick a side?

[seeker5]

Another possibility maybe, since lightworker seems to be a more establish term, and there isn't that much confusion about the lightworker term, maybe to only change the darkworker term? Maybe we could use the terms lightworker vs selfworkers?

[Still Growing]

Originally Posted by Steve Pavlina

As I noted in the blog, the vast majority of people are neither lightworkers or darkworkers. These are to be considered as options, not obligations.

Steve,
True you did say that the vast majority of people are neither lightworkers or darkworkers. But I think there are even less than 1% and thank God.

The truth is that a lot of dark people do bad things under the name of self preservation and a lot of light people do bad things under the name of love.

The subject of Lightworker vs Darkworker is not what inspired so much more activity under this thread. The real subject of inspiration is on polarity.

When your post spoke of utilizing polarity to make your actions align with your intention I got goose bumps. People commended you on it being the best post ever. When it went towards the subject of Lightworker vs Darkworker people "Including myself" started to argue symantics. Really nothing productive was contributed thereafter.

I hope you will continue to speak more about polarity and how if we charge our polarity to be consistent with our desired outcome it will truely make us more effective. I think your post about polarity was your best ever and far more cutting edge than anything out there.

You satrted to really hit on something with that. I am not sure you even realize what you have with this subject....

You Rock Steve,

Still Growing

[Amadeus]

brown noser

[healthymind]

I also found the polarization article interesting and helpful on many levels. The concepts of darkworker and lightworker were not amoung those levels. Both those terms seem laden with judgements and restriction to me and neither accurately describes the way I work and feel about me. Just having them as opposite extremes of each other doesn't sit with me at all.

As far as polarisation goes I see it this way....

It's the point at which the life most people are living is so unsatisfying to you that you finally and irrevocably reach for the alternative, a life of freedom, and make the commitment to having it no matter what. This commitment is so strong and deep that you will never again go back to the old ways, not even for temporary support. It aligns with Steve's concept of commitment to mastery.

So someone who's polarized is someone who's fully committed to the path of mastery. That's as far as it goes for me. I do believe that everyone will always act from a mix of self-interest and group interest. But the polarised will do so with such intensity that their results will be exponentially greater than those who are not as finely focused.

My personal perspective is very much in the self-interest camp. But do I do everything out of self-interest alone? Absolutely not. Does doing something out of group interest make me feel happy and powerful? Absolutely. Am I fear motivated? I don't think so since my dominant emotion is that of feeling free and happy. You can't feel fearful and free at the same time.

And as Steve has already pointed out you can't effectively serve the group interests until you have satisifed your self-interests. You can't give what you haven't got.

[fiar]

The only part about all this where Steve was right was when he said only the intention was different. His Jedi/Sith analogy was way off, because the behavior is completely different. The point of Lightworker/Darkworker and polarity is to overcome 2 fears, which are really only 2 sides of one fear.

The fear is that if I give entirely of myself, who will watch my back? If I focus entirely on myself, how will I maintain my humanity. Both fears are really two sides to the same fear, that In giving you are deprived of something, and in taking you deprive someone else of something.

The way to overcome this fear is to give in entirely to one or the other, and know that the Universe will take care of the rest. Once you give in entirely to taking without fear, or giving without fear, the results have no observable difference.

Your behavior is the same no matter which you choose. You conquer and transcend both fears. It's like blasting a hole in a wall. By conquering (Blasting a hole) the wall, you transcend the need to deal with it further. You can simply go through the hole. The fact that the other side of the wall still exists is irrelevant.

Polarity is a method for conquering and transcending fear.

You can give and take with fear, and that's where the confusion originates. When you give with fear, you hold back. When you take with fear, you are deceptive, and dishonest. When you give without fear, you give wholly and completely, and realize that what you give offers a return. When you take without fear, you take wholly, and realize that by doing so, you offer the giver a gift, without any conscious effort on your part.

I often ask my Dad for help on projects. He has the right to say No, but he always help, because he likes it. He tells me that he enjoys spending time with me. He Feels closer to me than ever. He looks forward to helping me.

It may seem selfish to take, take, take from him, but in doing so, I am giving a great gift. I give an emotional bond, and a sense of satisfaction. I give joy. What I get is needed assistance, and emotional bond, and joy. That is what taking and giving without fear is.

[Advent Shade]

As I noted in the blog, the vast majority of people are neither lightworkers or darkworkers. These are to be considered as options, not obligations.

You also said;

My role is to help people who are supposed to be in that 1% to come to terms with what that means and to accept the responsibility of being a “smart person.”

Are you really saying the people who are not polarizing towards this whole lightworker/darkworker are the "stupid people"? And the sheep who devoured each of your articles and then jumped on the whole idea... are the "smart people"?

Dah...

[zeloc]

Originally Posted by Andrew Brunelle

I guess when you really look at it, neither are good or bad, it is just a way of living your life in harmony with one of the two polarities and you will get better results. Neither one is good or bad, they both are there to pursue. It is your choice to pick one, the other, or not at all. So choose what you feel is your best choice and that should be it. There is no stigma on either one of them, so let's stop calling one side evil and the other "god-like."

I disagree strongly that there will be better results if someone chooses either lightworking or darkworking. There are also people for whom choosing to do what is best for himself/herself (ie, darkworker) is also the best for others (lightworker). Are these people both lightworkers and darkworkers? That doesn't seem to make sense with the current definitions.

[Brutha]

I disagree strongly that there will be better results if someone chooses either lightworking or darkworking. There are also people for whom choosing to do what is best for himself/herself (ie, darkworker) is also the best for others (lightworker). Are these people both lightworkers and darkworkers? That doesn't seem to make sense with the current definitions.

You are stuck in an objective frame of mind.
Results don't determine whether someone is one or the other but intentions.

The chinese have a word shi to describe the energy that is inherent to polarity. It's difficult to understand for westerns because as Alan Watts said: "The negative has pretty bad connatations these days".

[Caveman Joe]

Well, even though you say not to, there is still a stigma attached to the darkworker term - from reading through all the comments here, so many people made comments related to darkworker being bad and having to watch out for them. I do realize Steve probably may not have meant it that way. It's not easy to not call one not evil when you have the "dark" side to it, which unequivocally means evil in starwars terms.

Agh, the shackles of language.

Let's call lightworkers Rehontes, and darkworkers Ceys. Brand new, sparkly words, free of either negative or positive connotations. Pure, virgin words, freshly-baked from my random word generator. How's that sound?

[ethereal]

Sigh, again I say, let's scrap everything and use love and fear. Loveworkers and Fearworkers. Problem solved

Do things out of love, or do things out of fear. Self and others don't really make a difference (really, it doesn't). We are all One, so loving yourself and loving others are one and the same.

However, IMO, there are two things that need to be noted:

1) Desire is motivated by fear. So all the "darkworking" stuff that I hear about, smells a lot like being fear-based. Love is motivated by love and is love-based. I think you all can tell the difference, just by the energies behind the motivation. A lot of darkworkers try to pretend that desire is love-based, i.e. "I love myself and that's why I'm doing it", but that's really BS.

2) "darkworking" and "STS", as they are commonly known and understood (I'm not trying to argue semantics), is inherently based on the belief in a separate individual human being/ego, and is thus less love-based or truthful since the reality is that we are not individuals but we are One. "lightworking" and "STO", as they are commonly known and understood, is inherently based on the belief that we are not separate, that we are One, and that serving others is to serve our Self, and so it is inherently more love-based and truthful because it is based on Reality.

As for polarization making things more "effective" -- depends on what you mean by effective. Is dark/fearworking effective in the world of form? Perhaps. Hitler got farther than most humans have ever gone, in terms of "effectiveness." But in terms of subjective experiential reality (level of consciousness), I'm not sure mastering fear-based thinking will get you to a nice place, either in this lifetime or in the afterlife. All the great avatars, saints, and sages said the same thing, and I don't think it's wise to disagree with them

Plus, LoA is based on the power of attraction of love, and not fear. So again, I don't see how polarization would improve your LoA or IM skills, unless you polarize as a light/loveworker. Maybe people can prove me wrong by showing me what things they manifested through fear, and whether it was pleasant or unpleasant

And thanks, JJH, for the phrase, "attachment to the world of form." I never thought about it that way, but it makes a lot of sense

[zeloc]

Originally Posted by Brutha

You are stuck in an objective frame of mind.
Results don't determine whether someone is one or the other but intentions.

The chinese have a word shi to describe the energy that is inherent to polarity. It's difficult to understand for westerns because as Alan Watts said: "The negative has pretty bad connatations these days".

Perhaps you are misunderstanding me or I am misunderstanding you, but I am claiming the possibility of a person being both a lightworker and a darkworker. I am not suggesting that results determine whether someone is one or the other. From the explanations of these two entities as described by Steve Pavlina, that would seem to be a contradiction, although I think it is possible. I am not certain what you are trying to state with this idea of shi as your explanation is exceedingly brief.

[Sam988]

Originally Posted by zeloc

I am claiming the possibility of a person being both a lightworker and a darkworker.

How do you think that's possible?

I mean, it is possible, but it's not as effective as someone who's polarized/polarizing.


So you mean that someone that you think that who's not polarized and not trying to polarize will be as effective as someone who is polarized/on it's way to being polarized? Could you explain why you think that?

[zeloc]

Originally Posted by Sam988

So you mean that someone that you think that who's not polarized and not trying to polarize will be as effective as someone who is polarized/on it's way to being polarized? Could you explain why you think that?

Let me explain this in a way that makes sense. Steve says in his article that lightworkers and darkworkers combined comprise less than 1% of the population. When I say that it is possible for someone to be both a lightworker and a darkworker, I am not talking about someone who's not polarized and is not trying to polarize. I am talking about a very select subpopulation that is within the 1%, who is polarized in a very unique way to both lightworking and darkworking. In other words, doing what is best for the greater good is also best for the individual himself/herself.

[openeyes]

Originally Posted by zeloc

I am talking about a very select subpopulation that is within the 1%, who is polarized in a very unique way to both lightworking and darkworking. In other words, doing what is best for the greater good is also best for the individual himself/herself.

That seems to be what Steve has recently decided comprises lightworking, which is interesting since it seems a bit different from how lightworking was originally portrayed:

Being a lightworker is self deception

"A lightworker seeks to minimize the conflict between service to self and service to others, so there's little difference between the two. A darkworker would likely view this as impossible... or perhaps pointless.

The lightworker recognizes AND, while the darkworker sees OR."

[ethereal]

I've recently read the Law of One / Ra Material, which seems to be where the whole STS/STO and lightworker/darkworker material came from. Quite interesting read, and I highly recommend anybody interested in polarity to check it out.

Now I see where Steve is coming from, regarding how polarization speeds up spiritual evolution, and how both STS and STO eventually ends up in the same place.

The only thing is, the Law of One material did not describe in full detail what the path of darkworking / STS, experientially, entails. If it did, I doubt Steve or the rest of these "darkworkers" would talk so lightly and freely about it.

The lower astral, or upper levels of hell, is just an inkling of what it takes. And then you have to go even deeper and deeper. I don't even know if it's possible to get back out by going straight through it.

I don't think people really understand what darkworking really means. It means you have to be pure evil, to the point of being evil just for evil's sake (to polarize). The more innocent people you can harm and control, and the more spiritual (lightworking) people you can push off their path, the more you can polarize. It isn't just a matter of "I'm serving myself and I don't care about what happens to others" -- it's almost like, "I am God and I have the right to do whatever I want -- and to prove it, I'm going to have to hurt and manipulate and control as many people as possible to grow in power."

Pretty grim picture. I doubt anybody on this forum, actually has this in mind. So I ask again for all supposed "darkworkers" to reconsider what they're getting into

[Sam988]

ethereal, you're mentioning the kind of DW that this Ra Material thing mentions, but the kind of DW that steve is referring to is different from the one you described above, so these 2 DW concepts are very different.

[ticktockclok]

Ethereal: You're definitely not understanding darkworking under Steve's definitions. A highly conscious darkworker understands that by harming others, he is not going to be able to advance himself too much because his reputation will be destroyed. Lightworkers and darkworkers are essentially one and the same, but they have different motivations.

[Livgivare]

Does Darkworker and Lightworker funktion like Yin and Yang? At least that is what feeling I get from this debate!