Declining Value

[Per Nyblom]

Originally Posted by Steve Pavlina

It's like going into someone's house and complaining about the decor -- in front of the person's family and house guests. What kind of reception would you expect if you did that? Of course you'll be promptly shown the door and asked to leave. So I'm showing you the door and asking you to leave. Should that really be such a shock?

I love this analogy. You must have some serious cohones to run a popular site like this though . BTW, I like your decor.

[Plays With Life]

Originally Posted by Per Nyblom

BTW, I like your decor.

Ditto that. I like it too.

[Brigid]

There certainly has been growth and development over the years!!
In me too. :~)
I happily subscribe to the wisdom of the "LIVE AND LET LIVE " program.

Carry on Steve.

I'm a plate shifting earth quake survivor from Canada...
and nothing beats that Santa Monica marketplace...
except maybe the Dundas Busker Festival :~)
check it out next time you're in the neighborhood.

Originally Posted by Steve Pavlina

In all seriousness... if you no longer find enough value here, don't linger around and post general complaints. That's silly. Simply move on and seek other sources that align with what you desire. Recognize that it's utterly unreasasonable to expect me to go back and crank out more content on topics that interested me 5 years ago but that no longer inspire me today.

If you need help letting go, I could give you the "It's not you; it's me" speech. Blame me for not living up to your expectations if you think that will help.

Also recognize that I frequently receive the exact opposite feedback from yours. What annoys you delights someone else, and vice versa.

That 2005 feedback article still applies today.

We've grown apart. It's OK. Let go.

[Elrond]

It seems that maybe this often discussed concept of "value" is thought to be totally subjective, that if someone thinks the value is declining than it is just their personal opinion, period, there can be no sense of truth to it in a broader sense. I would think that if "value" is something that is so subjective and non-objective, than the whole concept of it is useless.

"Are you providing value?" "Are you giving value?"

I guess I can just say "Well that would be up to you to decide. And since your opinion can't point to a more general truth in it, than your opinion is useless. Therefor, your inquiry about my value output is useless".

[Lionman]

Having your happiness and life revolving around Steve is a bit creepy in my opinion. Talk about giving your power away!

If you're getting bored here then try somewhere else, or try applying what you've learned.

For instance, if you enjoyed the subjective reality type posts, LOA etc. and are looking for a deeper rabbit hole, then I recommend jumping down this one:
Matrix Energetics Message Board

And by the way, if you had really read and understood Steve's earlier posts then you wouldn't be complaining right now.

Who's responsible for what happens around/to you?

[tuesday]

Dear oh dear. A fair point politely made and look at the response! Ridicule, defensiveness, ganging up, sycophancy. It's a bit like being back in the schoolyard and not being in the best boy's gang!

Almost any critical comment seems to draw the same kind of reaction. The 'It's Steve's blog, he can do what he wants' is the most worrying - isn't this a PUBLIC FORUM?! That way lies a CULT!

I'm not sure how to judge ongoing success and value in these areas but statistics help. Steve has always been refreshingly honest about his business, maybe he can let us know some figures. How is this blog doing over the last few months? How are his affiliate referals going? Is the decline in numbers at CWG just down to bad copywriting?

Personally, I think it's been difficult to link the title of the blog to the recent postings. Anyone who has travelled much (ie those who are SMART in that area) would probably find them quite boring not to say naive. People who have been around here a while probably have the patience / vested interest to sit through them - a bit like Tony Robbins fans having to put up with his singing!

One of the problems of blogs over other websites is that amazing content from the past is not as apparent as the latest post. Several duff ones in a row and it all looks a bit wobbly.

Ok fire away friends!

[Elrond]

Originally Posted by tuesday

dear oh dear. A fair point politely made and look at the response! Ridicule, defensiveness, ganging up, sycophancy. It's a bit like being back in the schoolyard and not being in the best boy's gang!

Almost any critical comment seems to draw the same kind of reaction. The 'it's steve's blog, he can do what he wants'

qft

[roxyruby]

You're right that his latest blogs about travel haven't been useful to me, although I read them anyway cause it gives me something to do and he writes in an interesting way, like I guess what he writes is interesting to read, maybe cause I'm a fan, I don't know.

But I don't own him, so I can't expect him to write another article about personal development just cause it's what I want. Maybe I would expect that if this was a membership site I was paying for, but it's not, it's free.

Ridicule, defensiveness, ganging up, sycophancy

can you quote what people have said in this thread that are these things? Ganging up and ridicule is pretty unacceptable. I don't know what "sycophancy" means though ^ ^

[Savage]

One reason my blog continues to thrive is that some people can't understand why it continues to thrive. What may be a mystery to others, however, is no mystery to me.

Stevepavlina.com Site Info

Note the spike in Jan 2010 when I began posting about D/s.

Is it possible that after almost 6 years of blogging and receiving thousands of pieces of individual feedback, I might -- just might -- actually have a clearer grasp of what my readers, in the aggregate, truly want to read about than anyone else posting in this thread?

If you'd read the same feedback I have, not just the forum posts but also the private emails that people are unwilling to share publicly, you might not be so surprised by the topics I choose to write about.

Any surprise is simply due to ignorance of the actual data -- and only being able to see a small slice of the total feedback. By and large the most detailed and actionable feedback comes via email, by phone, or face-to-face, not the forums.

[James81]

Originally Posted by Steve Pavlina

By and large the most detailed and actionable feedback comes via email, by phone, or face-to-face, not the forums.

I've heard you sort of downplay the forums like this before, but I dont' think I've ever seen you post about why you put less value on feedback provided on the forums as opposed to email. (I could see why phone and face to face might be more helpful because that would be people who you have a vested interest in, and personally know and trust.)

So, why does the email/blog feedback take precedent over forum feedback? Or, rather, why do you think that you're getting "better" feedback from other sources besides the forums? (in terms of online feedback that is)

[roxyruby]

Originally Posted by Steve Pavlina

One reason my blog continues to thrive is that some people can't understand why it continues to thrive. What may be a mystery to others, however, is no mystery to me.

Stevepavlina.com Site Info

Note the spike in Jan 2010 when I began posting about D/s.

Is it possible that after almost 6 years of blogging and receiving thousands of pieces of individual feedback, I might -- just might -- actually have a clearer grasp of what my readers, in the aggregate, truly want to read about than anyone else posting in this thread?

If you'd read the same feedback I have, not just the forum posts but also the private emails that people are unwilling to share publicly, you might not be so surprised by the topics I choose to write about.

Any surprise is simply due to ignorance of the actual data -- and only being able to see a small slice of the total feedback. By and large the most detailed and actionable feedback comes via email, by phone, or face-to-face, not the forums.

wow your site traffic did go up a lot then, I wonder why/how?

Looks like it also went up alot at the start of 2009? Maybe new years resolutions to improve your self? lol

[Plays With Life]

Originally Posted by tuesday

Almost any critical comment seems to draw the same kind of reaction. The 'It's Steve's blog, he can do what he wants' is the most worrying - isn't this a PUBLIC FORUM?! That way lies a CULT!

A cult? I don't see how that leads to a cult.

Originally Posted by tuesday

Personally, I think it's been difficult to link the title of the blog to the recent postings. Anyone who has travelled much (ie those who are SMART in that area) would probably find them quite boring not to say naive. People who have been around here a while probably have the patience / vested interest to sit through them - a bit like Tony Robbins fans having to put up with his singing!

I don't see what you mean by this. I've travelled loads, and I enjoy Steve's travelling posts. I don't think it takes any smartness to travel. You just have to get up and go to a new place.

[Savage]

Originally Posted by James81

I've heard you sort of downplay the forums like this before, but I dont' think I've ever seen you post about why you put less value on feedback provided on the forums as opposed to email. (I could see why phone and face to face might be more helpful because that would be people who you have a vested interest in, and personally know and trust.)

So, why does the email/blog feedback take precedent over forum feedback? Or, rather, why do you think that you're getting "better" feedback from other sources besides the forums? (in terms of online feedback that is)

Private feedback is much more candid. People reveal things in email that they won't share publicly. This is especially true when I write about topics that typically get judgmental reactions, such as divorce, D/s, and even quitting jobs or quitting school.

People share very personal details about their lives via email, Facebook messages, forum PMs, phone calls, face to face conversations -- even Twitter DMs -- that they won't post on the forums or anywhere else in public.

If the only feedback I saw was the public kind (like forum posts or blog comments), I'd have a very skewed impression of what people are really thinking. The juiciest and most honest feedback comes privately, not publicly. Private feedback is also the most actionable.

In private people tell me about their BDSM relationships, about past traumas like sexual abuse, their illegal activities, what drugs they've experimented with, how they're thinking about leaving their spouse or quitting their jobs, spy networks they belong to, their Freemason connections, etc. They share lots of details they don't want becoming public.

Some of those people are also forum members, and it's funny how chaste some of their posts are compared to what's really going on in their private lives with all the whips and chains and spankings and such.

This is how I'm able to write about topics that I know are of interest to people, even knowing that I'll surely be bashed publicly and praised privately for writing about them. So traffic goes up (which is no surprise to me), and the positive private feedback goes up too. But those who only see the public reaction assume that few are interested and that I'm making a mistake that will ultimately hurt my business. I simply have more information than they do, so I'm seeing the big picture they don't see.

I guess the lesson here is that you really can't get to know someone very well in public. There's a lot that goes on behind the scenes in people's lives that they don't share publicly -- ever.

Can you blame them? Look at all the judgment I receive for posting certain details publicly. And I haven't even shared the truly juicy stuff.

[Plays With Life]

Also ..

Originally Posted by tuesday

Ok fire away friends!

*squirts you with a water gun!*

[jayh]

Originally Posted by Steve Pavlina

One reason my blog continues to thrive is that some people can't understand why it continues to thrive. What may be a mystery to others, however, is no mystery to me.

Stevepavlina.com Site Info

Note the spike in Jan 2010 when I began posting about D/s.

Not to mention that awesome brown rice recipe! You know, after all these years, I never actually read that article till now - See still getting value!

[Anna Conlan]

Originally Posted by tuesday

Almost any critical comment seems to draw the same kind of reaction. The 'It's Steve's blog, he can do what he wants' is the most worrying - isn't this a PUBLIC FORUM?! That way lies a CULT!

Your comment doesn't make much sense to me.

I believe that all bloggers and writers are free to do what they want with their blogs that THEY maintain, pay for and put a load of work, time and energy into.

A cult is a group that teaches something that will cause a person to remain 'unsaved' or to believe they will be harmed if they don't believe in it. anyone selectively and strategically discarding feedback from their forum doesn't = 'cultish', in my eyes.

It's exercising your right to choose your direction and ignore (or not ignore) feedback about your writing.

[escapeplan]

Originally Posted by Anna Conlan

Your comment doesn't make much sense to me.

I believe that all bloggers and writers are free to do what they want with their blogs that THEY maintain, pay for and put a load of work, time and energy into.

A cult is a group that teaches something that will cause a person to remain 'unsaved' or to believe they will be harmed if they don't believe in it. anyone selectively and strategically discarding feedback from their forum doesn't = 'cultish', in my eyes.

It's exercising your right to choose your direction and ignore (or not ignore) feedback about your writing.

Anna, I think that cult is too extreme and not relevant here though it's not the first time this analogy has been made. I think however what is disturbing is the reaction to negative reviews or opinions that forum members sometimes give. Negative feedback does not need to be met with this "take it or leave it approach". The last comment Steve made on this topic offered a much clearer explanation for some topics he has written on, and also explains how it fits into his business model.

Now you could say this is Steve's business and he doesn't have to explain himself, but no business HAS to explain themselves to their customers/ followers but it probably makes more sense to keep them happy. This whole take it or get lost type of approach (not by you, but by some) does little to encourage open mindedness or personal development. The same applies (but on a much harsher scale!) if you dare to question anyone in the IM forum of this site Now that can seem cultish!!!;

Also, if you don't rate the negative feedback on forums highly, you equally cannot give weight to positive comments or feedback.

[Anna Conlan]

Originally Posted by escapeplan

Anna, I think that cult is too extreme and not relevant here though it's not the first time this analogy has been made. I think however what is disturbing is the reaction to negative reviews or opinions that forum members sometimes give. Negative feedback does not need to be met with this "take it or leave it approach". The last comment Steve made on this topic offered a much clearer explanation for some topics he has written on, and also explains how it fits into his business model.

Now you could say this is Steve's business and he doesn't have to explain himself, but no business HAS to explain themselves to their customers/ followers but it probably makes more sense to keep them happy. This whole take it or get lost type of approach (not by you, but by some) does little to encourage open mindedness or personal development. The same applies (but on a much harsher scale!) if you dare to question anyone in the IM forum of this site Now that can seem cultish!!!;

Also, if you don't rate the negative feedback on forums highly, you equally cannot give weight to positive comments or feedback.

Hi escapeplan,

Yes, I agree with what you say. In general it is smart to listen to feedback from your readers.

I guess what has grated on me in this thread is that there are people who have got something out of this website and who choose to complain when they stop getting something out of it. It sounds ungrateful to me. I'd understand it if they were paying for a service, but they're not!!

But that's probably about me - not about this website. I have a blog. It has nowhere near the amount of readers this website has. But I'd still be pretty annoyed if someone wrote to me and said "I used to like your website - but it doesn't interest me anymore". I'd just be like "why are you still here?! **** off!!! Go and read different websites."

And then there are the people who not only express negativity about it, but have a sense of entitlement about it. I guess it's human nature - people get used to reading articles they like. Then when it changes, they don't like it.

If Steve is truly writing about what currently inspires him, then I don't see why a 'take it or leave it' answer is not OK.

I value my freedom I think. If I'm having a blast writing articles that I feel inspired about, and then someone emails me and whines to me that the free thing they're getting isn't interesting enough anymore, and that I should know about it, I too would be inclined to say 'why are you telling me this?' - go and find other blogs'.

[MidasGirl]

Originally Posted by Lionman

As a fellow Aries type, I'd suggest you don't try to tell Steve what to do. It has the oppositve effect as intended.

I'd say he's now much less likely to post anything like his older post because your nagging faces are now assossiated with that material, resulting in reverse inspiration.

What he said.

As another fellow Aries, I'll say if more people got this, they'd not waste their time starting such threads. It's almost like "real" Arieses are cursed to never bow to external pressure. If you try to push you're bound to get the exact opposite effect.

I know to some, Steve comes off as arrogant when he responds in the way he has here, but I see it as a very typical Aries response.

In any case, and I don't mean to defend Steve (although he clearly needs me to defend him) why does it matter if he isn't writing like he used to 4 years ago? It's clear to me he has shifted his energy to other areas such as CGW and what not. I don't understand this whole thing of students wanting their PD guru to stay where they want him/her?

EDA: If you want to meet another Aries PD guru check out Randy Gage and see he totally comes off as arrogant as well.

[tod]

I just want to throw this in to counter the allegation of declining value -- which, by the way, is offered for free, so if it's really on the decline, what right do you have to moan about it?

CGW Sales Page Lessons is an incredibly valuable article. When I read it in June, my first thought was, "If he wrote nothing else for a year, I wouldn't be disappointed, because this article is so valuable." You could take just one of the ideas on this site and spend an entire year on implementation and still not master it. Does the OP really find more value in constant novelty, and not that ONE THING that could set him off in a new direction for years?

[pyrogen]

Originally Posted by tod

I just want to throw this in to counter the allegation of declining value -- which, by the way, is offered for free, so if it's really on the decline, what right do you have to moan about it?

CGW Sales Page Lessons is an incredibly valuable article. When I read it in June, my first thought was, "If he wrote nothing else for a year, I wouldn't be disappointed, because this article is so valuable." You could take just one of the ideas on this site and spend an entire year on implementation and still not master it. Does the OP really find more value in constant novelty, and not that ONE THING that could set him off in a new direction for years?

I feel that way about Steve's blog. I read his old stuff mostly, but there's so much there I will never run out of stuff to read. There's enough to fill several workshops, courses and books, and here it is being offered for free.

[Angelique]

Originally Posted by MidasGirl

What he said.

As another fellow Aries, I'll say if more people got this, they'd not waste their time starting such threads. It's almost like "real" Arieses are cursed to never bow to external pressure. If you try to push you're bound to get the exact opposite effect.

I know to some, Steve comes off as arrogant when he responds in the way he has here, but I see it as a very typical Aries response.

In any case, and I don't mean to defend Steve (although he clearly needs me to defend him) why does it matter if he isn't writing like he used to 4 years ago? It's clear to me he has shifted his energy to other areas such as CGW and what not. I don't understand this whole thing of students wanting their PD guru to stay where they want him/her?

EDA: If you want to meet another Aries PD guru check out Randy Gage and see he totally comes off as arrogant as well.

Hahaha. This is so true! I learned this the hard way. The nice part is that when an Aries is kind, they really mean it. Aries is also super caring and romantic, at least from what I've seen. It was a little (kiddo) Aries that was most empathetic to my pain when I was bedridden for a couple of days. So sweet!