Are You a Lightworker or a Darkworker? (Blog)

[Savage]

Use this thread to discuss the following entry from Steve Pavlina's blog:

Are You a Lightworker or a Darkworker?

[songwriter]

Yes, just like Star Wars, so Carl Jung and collective unconscious ("The Force") and synchronicities....

I think all my life I wanted to follow the "lightworker" way... I mean I wanted to be a successful musician BUT doing things I really like... and refusing to do certain kinds of music. I refused quite a long time ago a producer who wanted to turn my songs into somewhat... crappy songs. It could have given me money but not happiness.

But hey... after all... I was serving myself. I looked for "My happiness", not for my money though. All I know is wouldn't be happy doing that role. I see that as fake my art or so...

Ok, so that's maybe the dark side of the music business, selling out, not being true to yourself... That's surely no good for me.

But on the other hand... I've showed my songs and some have like them very much, I played live and some have like it very much... but I've had no pleasure from it... or very few, really.

So the greater good, it ain't so satisfying for me. The good feedback is good but I don't know if is worth to pay many money for recording a song or to prepare a performance to only have this little (but very good) feedback.

The thing is that no matter who tells me that really likes my music, it doesn't matter much to me.

So, being true to myself it's not a big deal for me, but selling out is even worse.

But well... for the greater good... wouldn't it be good to "sell out" yourself?... you won't be happy... but maybe some others...

I don't know, the music business is very tricky... all I know is I will be miserable selling out. So I'm gonna try to polarize a little more... maybe is what I need to become a Jedi Master.

[Athena]

Songwriter, that's a great question--

I think that the key is in balance- define the elements and messages in your music that are most important to you.
If you want those messages to reach the masses, you can allow a producer to modify parts of your music, while keeping those core elements. Understand what elements the producers are changing or modifying and why, and as long as you know what the point of your music is, and how you want it to affect people, then you can allow it to be translated in order to be channeled to the masses.

I am a strong believer in the Kantian principle of 'greatest light to the greatest number of people'. I can identify the most important parts of my work, and understand that during production, certain parts of my work are modified in order to be transmitted to a greater number of people, but am always certain that the core message is still there.

Yours is a classic dilemma of artists who appreciate the value and message of their work more than mass appeal; if you want to be an indie artist and preserve it completely, that's fine, but if you want your music to reach more people, understand what your message is and make it a point to preserve that while allowing your message to be channeled to a greater number of people. You're never 'selling out' as long as you understand what your most important principles are, and always preserve those in your work.

[shiatsustudent]

Thanks for this series it has come at an interesting time for me.

I am in the second year of studying the Japanese therapy of shiatsu. I have been struggling with the commitment over the past few months. I have been blogging my experiences over on my site.

Steve's series appeared at the same time that I started a short series looking at some of the shiatsu theory as it relates to me and ultimately came to the same conclusion; I was not committing to this big change in my lifestyle and outlook.

It has taken a lot to bring down certain internal barriers to allow me to change in the way that deep down I have always wanted to. Until then my learning has been superficial. Although the work on my clients was well received I felt there was a missing connection. Now those barriers are coming down and I am committing more those connections are developing.

[John Wesley]

In Steve's article, he considers being light or dark better than being unpolarized. He doesn't say one is better than the other.

My question is, aren't darkworkers bad for society as a whole? Being a darkworker means never doing things that don't help you. It means being greedy, and using fear to get what you want. I know some huge darkworkers and I'm sure they'll be very successful, but when it comes down to it they're miserable human beings.

Suppose you want happiness, the common good, and success. Is it possible to be a lightworker and still care about yourself? Is it possible to be a darkworker and still help others? It seems like it isn't, at least not intentionally, if you're polarized.

I feel like it would be better to have most darkworkers less polarized and most lightworkers highly polarized. I guess I don't see why Steve doesn't take a stand for one side or announce his own polarity.

[nvictor]

I have a misunderstanding with this: As a lightworker your energy flows outward. As a darkworker your energy flows inward. The source of this flow is always inside you — centered within your consciousness — and your polarity determine the flow’s direction.

If the source is inside, how can a darkworker's energy flow inward??

[CannibalSmith]

Originally Posted by John Wesley

Is it possible to be a lightworker and still care about yourself?

Enlightened self interest. Lightworkers help themselves by helping others; darkworkers help others by helping themselves.

But I want to doubt the concept itself. I mean, subjective reality. You are all there is. There are no others to help or not. And you can't really make a conscious choice to live a fear based life. Because conscious choice means you're in control. But if you're in control, there's no fear.

[wolfgang]

As a lightworker your energy flows outward. As a darkworker your energy flows inward. The source of this flow is always inside you — centered within your consciousness — and your polarity determine the flow’s direction.

I don't see that there's a direction to energy flow. Especially since it has been said that the lightworker also must let inflow occur or get sick and a darkworker must let outflow happen or blowup or something bad.

It seem like it's more choosing to focus on one of the two flows that are always there in a healthy person.

Mastery is a process, not a position. Mastery is when you turn a desire into an absolute must. For lightworkers and darkworkers, these commitments are made for different reasons. But in either case, a conscious decision is made to devote one’s time, energy, resources, and talents to the chosen role with a high degree of intensity. That intensity of focus is perhaps what most distinguishes someone who has polarized.

How come it seems like choosing to be totally focused on giving, is like ignoring that one has to also be able to accept what comes back and remember to feel graditude. Or if totaly focused on taking, is like ignoring that one also should be able to give.

And isn't ignoring something a form of unconsciousness?

I still don't get it. Intensity of focus comes from ignorning the other side of the flow?

[wolfgang]

If you polarize as a lightworker, you are dedicating your life to serving the greater good.

If you polarize as a darkworker, you are dedicating your life to serving yourself.

And both are equally powerfull/effective?

At almost seems like it's a bounary difference. Both light and dark workers are serving but at a different bounary.

For the lightworker to be servering the greater good, the bounadry of serving is expanded to include everyone (ultimately).

For the darkworker the bounadry is squashed down to your biologocal and/or ego persona and you are still serving but only to yourself.

Does that fit in anyone's mind? Especially Steve's mind since he started this?

[Velorien]

@CannibalSmith: Interesting point about subjective reality. But most things, ultimately, turn out to be illusions according to said model. Surely it's just a matter of which ones you choose to experience (consciously or otherwise), including the illusion of separate people and the illusion of fear?

As regards Steve, it's generally good to know people's motivations when you interact with them. If Steve was a really ambitious darkworker, just think of how he could use this blog to manipulate people, given the sheer numbers it attracts and his ability to sound authoritative on matters most people haven't personally explored.

@nvictor: Perhaps a better way of phrasing it would be that the power that makes energy flow inward is within you, like a magnet?

@wolfgang: I can't see the idea of "ignoring" in Steve's actual article. Choosing to focus on A is not the same as ignoring B (peripheral vision, for example). Besides, even if you give 100% of your focus to A, B can still happen of its own accord.

But I agree with you regarding the boundary of self. That's a very useful model, and I'm intrigued by the new light it might shed on the polarity idea.

@dc.: Steve has said many times that his focus is on giving, service and love (and has implied, though never directly stated, that he's heavily polarised that way). Going by his own definitions, he can't not be a lightworker.

[wolfgang]

Originally Posted by Velorien

@wolfgang: I can't see the idea of "ignoring" in Steve's actual article. Choosing to focus on A is not the same as ignoring B (peripheral vision, for example). Besides, even if you give 100% of your focus to A, B can still happen of its own accord.

There needs to be a good term for what's happening with the other polarization side when you polarize.

Where is the receiving in a giver's life? If it's not being ignored then what is happening with the receiving energy?

The reason to polarize is because you’re ready to make a conscious commitment to a certain type of life. You’re willing to devote your whole being either to serving the greater good or to serving yourself. That commitment becomes your life purpose.

Devoting your whole being to serving sounds like there's no room to also have any attetion on the receiving. That I took as an ignoring of the receiving. But what is it really? Also serving yourself in a devotional way seems to imply that you don't even think about the giving part.

[Dan.Linehan]

Originally Posted by John Wesley

My question is, aren't darkworkers bad for society as a whole? Being a darkworker means never doing things that don't help you. It means being greedy, and using fear to get what you want. I know some huge darkworkers and I'm sure they'll be very successful, but when it comes down to it they're miserable human beings.

I know a very strong darkworker myself (my darkworker can beat up your darkworker) who is a pretty good person. He's dedicated his life to furthering his own career, and making and saving money, but he's done this by becoming better with computer networking than anyone I've met. He is currently getting a cisco cert that only about 2,000 people in the world have. Shortly, he'll be getting paid hundreds an hour to fly around fixing networks all over the world. And he's only 22.

He has tens of thousands of dollars in the bank and just bought a reliable car for 3k. He puts money in an IRA. He owns his house. His credit is over 700. He doesn't have any debt.

If you tried to get in his way, nothing bad would happen to you, he would just bypass you. He wouldn't do anything evil or violent or illegal because he would never risk going to jail or getting a criminal record.

He could care less about what kind of networks he is fixing or optimizing. As long as he got paid. But I'd say inherently he does more good than almost anyone I've met just because he is so productive. He gets paid to fix things and he likes the money and the status, so he fixes things 14 hours a day, at $90/hour. That rate will double or triple soon, and he won't work any less.

How could a lightworker really compete against this? Are you, as a lightworker, going to fix computer networks with the power of love? I don't think so. Good luck competing against my darkworker friend.

Steve said a while ago that he sees furthering evolution as a great purpose. The overall purpose behind everything really. I think this is a wise assessment. My darkworker friend (though he would never think to label himself as a darkworker) assists greatly in the evolution of the internet and the field of networking. The influences he'll make over the next ten years will probably be pretty astounding. And he'll get paid accordingly.

As far as I can tell, everyone wins, but mostly my friend does.

Who would get in the way of furthering technology? My friend makes companies thousands of dollars in minutes. Can the power of love do that? Not as far as I can tell. Only a highly developed skillset can.

Is he evil? I know him as well as anyone, and I'd say definitely not. He realizes that deep skills and strong ethics make money. He realizes this to the point that he does more good than anyone else I know, even if his reasons are only to help himself. If you spoke with him, there's not any ego involved. He doesn't have to sell himself, because his reputation preceeds him. Ego doesn't make money in the computer field, fixing networks does.

I think people like to think that being self centered means doing work at the expense of others somehow, this isn't the case. Being self centered really means helping others, because they're the ones who pay you.

[John Wesley]

That's a good point Dan. Sometimes I wish I was more a darkworker so I could dedicate myself to developing a skill, even if it was something I don't really like. I fortunately, if the pursuit is dull and entirely self motivated I always lose interest.

[Baltar]

Originally Posted by John Wesley

My question is, aren't darkworkers bad for society as a whole? Being a darkworker means never doing things that don't help you. It means being greedy, and using fear to get what you want. I know some huge darkworkers and I'm sure they'll be very successful, but when it comes down to it they're miserable human beings.

I think it's a lot more likely for unpolorized people to be miserable in their life than people who have polarized one way or another. I'm saying this from personal experience.

Keep in mind that while a darkworker's primary purpose is to do things that will benefit them, what benefits them and what benefits society as a whole are usually in alignment. In other words what a darkworker does is likely to provide a lot of value to others. It's just that their primary motivation for providing this value is to help themselves, while a lightworker's motivation for providing the same value is to help others. This doesn't tarnish, hinder or reduce the amount or quality of value that's provided by a darkworker compared to the same value provided by a lightworker.

Originally Posted by John Wesley

I feel like it would be better to have most darkworkers less polarized and most lightworkers highly polarized. I guess I don't see why Steve doesn't take a stand for one side or announce his own polarity.

You're making the assumption that darkworkers are inherently bad or evil or something. This is incorrect. Darkworkers can do bad things to further their self interests, but as has been said already this would eventually cause the darkworker to implode (think Richard Nixon). It's not in the darkworker's self interest to do unethical or unlawful things. Ultimately there's nothing wrong with being aligned with either polarity. If you think that one is better than the other then you are not understanding the concept fully yet.

[Erin Pavlina]

Dan, your friend the darkworker is not evil at all. he doesn't purposely go out and harm people just for kicks. Like Steve has mentioned, being a Darkworker is not bad. It's just associated with a certain flow of energy. And your friend is working it well. I'd rather be a totally polarized darkworker than an unpolarized person.

[mviara]

As Steve has shown with the Star Wars analogy, the lightworker vs darkworker theme seems to be a recurrying one, especially in the fantasy genre. I personally love the Harry Potter series, and I can see Dumbledore as the epitome of the lightworker, with the Death Eaters exemplifying the darkworkers.

Each of you can perhaps recount your favorite stories that have a similar theme. I believe it is not a coincidence that all these authors happened to revisit the same themes, in essentially, the same way. I have heard that there are only so many unique story lines (see the movie Stranger than Fiction), but that alone does not explain it. I feel like these authors are tapping into some universal truth, and simply providing different interpretations of it. Those of it who like these works do so because these stories reignite that same universal truth within us.

There was some doubt in this discussion whether darkworkers would necessarily be "bad". From the Potter analogy, I feel that eventually, a darkworker will become "bad" like the Death Eaters, and ultimately like Voldemort. That is because, by definition, a darkworker has embraced the principle of doing what is good for themselves, even if it is not good for others. The principle changes their perception of good and evil - they will only appear evil to lightworkers and to those who are not polarized.

[Adam]

That's a very interesting point, Mviara...

Sometimes, though, it seems that neither "good" or "evil" are actually as good or evil as they're labeled to be... There are some exceptions, such as racial prejudices, etc., (which, by the way, has been labeled as "good" for a very long time) but overall, the people who decide on the labels of good and evil are making those statements purely on their own perspective, ignoring any really objective perspective.

This makes me side with Steve in saying that neither side of the spectrum is good or evil, simply focused on giving or receiving, or for lack of a better term, light and dark.

It is really the contrast that helps these people stand out... White in a sea of gray is just as noticeable as black in a sea of gray... It's the difference, rather than the direction, that makes the idea of polarizing appealing.

[Dan.Linehan]

Originally Posted by John Wesley

Sometimes I wish I was more a darkworker so I could dedicate myself to developing a skill, even if it was something I don't really like. I fortunately, if the pursuit is dull and entirely self motivated I always lose interest.

You can choose your orientation, and what skills to learn. They aren't all dull.

[songwriter]

Originally Posted by Athena

Songwriter, that's a great question--

I think that the key is in balance- define the elements and messages in your music that are most important to you.
If you want those messages to reach the masses, you can allow a producer to modify parts of your music, while keeping those core elements. Understand what elements the producers are changing or modifying and why, and as long as you know what the point of your music is, and how you want it to affect people, then you can allow it to be translated in order to be channeled to the masses.

I am a strong believer in the Kantian principle of 'greatest light to the greatest number of people'. I can identify the most important parts of my work, and understand that during production, certain parts of my work are modified in order to be transmitted to a greater number of people, but am always certain that the core message is still there.

Yours is a classic dilemma of artists who appreciate the value and message of their work more than mass appeal; if you want to be an indie artist and preserve it completely, that's fine, but if you want your music to reach more people, understand what your message is and make it a point to preserve that while allowing your message to be channeled to a greater number of people. You're never 'selling out' as long as you understand what your most important principles are, and always preserve those in your work.

Yes, there are small changes that I wouldn't mind to change, you know but not the essence of it. I would feel like a salesman not like an artist... that's not me. I have to be "True to myself", if not I would hate my art/work, and probably myself too.

I'm too ambitious to be indie... but I'm not gonna do things I wouldn't listen...
Yes, for me, the real satisfaction is for the music itself not for the appeal or success coming with it. Maybe that would change with bigger success if I reached more people. I guess that would mean something but not as much as my own love for music.

So, it seems I'm not in the Dark Side... glad to know it. Great comments.

[songwriter]

Talking about Star Wars and the Dark Side... that's Carl Jung "shadow". That means no action is pure good or evil but it has a shadow behind of good or evil too. No matter what you do all is somewhat egoist and somewhat altruist.

Star Wars exagerates the good and the evil. That's Hollywood, you know.

[songwriter]

Well, if you want to serve the "greatest good", you must, at least... keep yourself alive!

(When the Jedis did things for money?... So how did they eat?)

[Athena]

Originally Posted by songwriter

I'm too ambitious to be indie... but I'm not gonna do things I wouldn't listen...
Yes, for me, the real satisfaction is for the music itself not for the appeal or success coming with it. Maybe that would change with bigger success if I reached more people. I guess that would mean something but not as much as my own love for music.

Perhaps you simply need to connect with the right producers! The ones that are in your wavelength, and have a channel into the mass market.

Best wishes to you!!

[Jaben]

I'd like to experiment with the polarities to see what it feels like and understand them better. However I'm not sure how to feel my energy and determine its polarity. As I was trying to do so today I was considering it would be easier to put my whole being into giving if I wasn't concerned about the results of my actions but just focused on the giving. Though the fear of boredom crept in as an afterthought. Still, I'm wondering if the following are attributes of the polarities:

1.Light energy is never focused on results but only on the act of doing or giving.
2.Dark polarity is always focused on results rather than actions.

In general focusing on actions would be selfless and focusing on results would be selfish. Light polarized energy would feel joy regardless of what happens and dark polarized energy would be easily moved by the fear of not achieving and the desire of receiving. On the other hand if these are completely accurate that would mean an intention to give something could still be polarized with dark energy and doing something for yourself could still be polarized with light energy.

I'd like to see more discussion on the attributes of the polarties and trial and error experience reports of experimenting with the polarities.

[wolfgang]

Originally Posted by songwriter

I'm too ambitious to be indie... but I'm not gonna do things I wouldn't listen...
Yes, for me, the real satisfaction is for the music itself not for the appeal or success coming with it. Maybe that would change with bigger success if I reached more people. I guess that would mean something but not as much as my own love for music.

So, it seems I'm not in the Dark Side... glad to know it. Great comments.

Now how would it be to apply polarity in this case? Does that mean not focusing on taking any action to sell your music?

Is this forums saying that if you forgo any focus on selling your music and devote your attention to just creating the sounds and sharing them, being an artist only, that you will be more effective with your music?

If so, does that seem to be a way to empower someone?

Artist versus salesman, but never in ths same person? Maybe there's something to that - great artists need managers to do the darkwork of selling you. But isn't that a limiting thoguht? A belief that noone can be both an artist and manger at the smae time, to it's fullest extennt?

Jack of all trades, master of none.
Or expert at this one or two things, and know not much else.
Or master of many things - like a renisaunce man/woman?

[Cael]

I think it's supposed to be like this...

Are you writing the songs to touch others' soul? Or are you writing the songs to express yourself? Either can work. Your songs to touch other souls may be easily understood and felt, and people would love it. Your songs that's written with your feelings, could be so intense and so deep, that whoever that's stuck in the same situation would love it too.

I think of myself as a darkworker. I'm a uni student, I work hard and join numerous clubs taking up important positions, but my ultimate goal is to experience internal growth. That doesn't stop me from dedicating fully to the clubs and bring them to the next level simply because, I will learn from it and it will help me in the future. I perceived myself as a honest person because I think that it will help me better in the long run. I do not do shady stuff just to make people thinks highly of me because I feel that it's useless unless you have the abilities to match your reputation, things will fall someday. Yadaa ydaa... the list could go on.

Hopefully this would provide a different perspective to you guys.

[Fusebox]

I want to chip in. I believe you must first master being a darkworker, then with age, experience, wisdom, etc, you will changeover to become a lightworker.

For example, I think many of us here on this forum dream of helping the less fortunate in great capacity, unfortunately however, we need to build our own solid foundation(s) before we can start supporting others around us.

Anakin Skywalker was a darkworker, but ultimately triumphed as a lightworker

[magickmystik]

it would be good if Steve Pavlina as the original author, would start commenting / posting / replying more on these darkworker / lightworker in this forum threads, because i still can see some conflicting opinions about what is darkworker / lightworker / non polarized etc
Like "yup, that's a lightworker / darkworker", or "no, that's not it"
If not, readers like me don't even know what they are or learn anything
Lots of examples would be nice too

[Dave Kaminski]

Originally Posted by Fusebox

I want to chip in. I believe you must first master being a darkworker, then with age, experience, wisdom, etc, you will changeover to become a lightworker.

For example, I think many of us here on this forum dream of helping the less fortunate in great capacity, unfortunately however, we need to build our own solid foundation(s) before we can start supporting others around us.

Anakin Skywalker was a darkworker, but ultimately triumphed as a lightworker

That seems TO ME like an excuse to be a darkworker early on. Sort of like a child acting "childish" by the time they have conscious control over their actions. There were adults at the age of 15 in Mayan times, they should still be able to act maturely now.

Although our surroundings lead us to believe that darkworker first may lead to lightworker, if you make it a conscious decision you can prove the habitual mind wrong!

[Dan.Linehan]

Originally Posted by Fusebox

I want to chip in. I believe you must first master being a darkworker, then with age, experience, wisdom, etc, you will changeover to become a lightworker.

For example, I think many of us here on this forum dream of helping the less fortunate in great capacity, unfortunately however, we need to build our own solid foundation(s) before we can start supporting others around us.

I agree. Worry about yourself first, until you get to a point where you love all the aspects of your own life. Then start giving back, while maintaining the joy you've secured in your own consciousness.

I've learned I can live very happliy on 40k a year. I have and do everything I ever wanted. I eat great vegan food, I have a nice place to live in a great area, I love my friends, I drive a newer model Acura, I see Arcade Fire when I want, I travel some, I snowboard, I play tennis, etc. What more could I want?

Any excess beyond the 40k I invest in lightworking. Also, I spend that initial 40k on things that I want to support. If you look at the list above I support organic food, good bands, Southwest airlines, etc. I don't spend money on things I don't feel are net positive. I spend my 40k on things that I want to see more of. For example, I don't use credit cards or take out loans because I don't want to support the debt ratio in our country.

As far as I can tell, using a darkworker type mentality to generate income and a lightworker type mentality to spend that income works pretty damn well. I don't think this conflicts with Steve's polarity writings, I can use a highly polarized dark (competitive) mentality to generate income, and a highly polarized light mentality to spend it.

Note that I work in the IT field, so darkworkers in my industry have a highly developed technical skillset that they use to generate as much income as possible. This would generally be done by consulting for banks or other large companies who are willing to pay a very high hourly rate ($100/hour or more.) There's no "evil darkworker deeds" being done in the IT field, except for maybe by hackers, who just get caught sooner or later. There's no money in hacking anyway.

[Dan.Linehan]

Originally Posted by Dave Kaminski

There were adults at the age of 15 in Mayan times, they should still be able to act maturely now.

15 isn't the age of consent..

I think kids will act like adults when we enable them to as a society.