Do you consider yourself a dark or light worker? Undecided?

[Jon]

As per Steve's polarization theory, cast your vote. Comments and elaborations are welcome.

[Logicseeker]

I consider it a bunch om mumo-jumbo and that is because it is based on bad argumentation. Inflow and outflow was defined and when those definitions does not work anymore he switches to love/fear. I think this is an extension of the Law of Attraction in order to explain why this law does not work, and I think that this in itself goes to show that The LoA was not a law to begin with. Laws are universal and you don't need to elaborate on them like this.

[Akashic_Librarian]

I think I am Lightworker because I have always had a desire to help people however Ido want a good life, with a nice house, car, lots of money etc...but only so I can focus all my energy on helping others etc...

[Logicseeker]

Originally Posted by Akashic_Librarian

I think I am Lightworker because I have always had a desire to help people however Ido want a good life, with a nice house, car, lots of money etc...but only so I can focus all my energy on helping others etc...

How is you living in a nice house going to help other people

[Erin Pavlina]

Getting your survival needs taken care of does help you focus on helping others. Not saying you need 3 BMWs in the garage, but to have financial freedom is very empowering and allows you to focus on what you can do to help others.

[Logicseeker]

Originally Posted by Erin Pavlina

Getting your survival needs taken care of does help you focus on helping others. Not saying you need 3 BMWs in the garage, but to have financial freedom is very empowering and allows you to focus on what you can do to help others.

So you cannot focus on helping others driving a crappy car

[Akashic_Librarian]

I didn't mean that at all. What I mean is. By being happy and finanically independent and stable I can really focus all my energy on something that helps people. However if i have to spend 6-9 hours a day working a job that has no impact simply because i have to pay a rent and a mortgage etc...etc..then thats just no good now is it?

[Simmiah]

I agree with making sure you take care of yourself first before you are able to help others with the best of your ability

There was a book my husband picked up called "The way of the warrior" I believe & he told me that in the book it said you cannot help others until you help yourself because you're like a circle. On the inside it's you & your world...say your family & you so if your family has problems like your wife has cancer or your children are sick with pneumonia you cannot help others until you help yourself or your family first. Then we can all focus on helping the outside rings beyond us like our neighborhood, then our city, then our state, then the nation, then the world. It made so much sense to me!

& I polled as I am not sure yet/undecided but leaning towards lightworker. Steve's articles really clarified a lot of the clashing I was experiencing inside which has been very helpful.

[Logicseeker]

If helping yourself means that all of your family members should be free from sickness, that you should have a home and a car etc. then you will be helping yourself until the day you die. If your goal truly is to help others and you can think logically, you will realize that just selling your car will save many persons lives if you donate that money to charity.

If you really want to help people, its so simple. Just sell everything not needed for generating more money that you will give away to charity. You could sit on the floor eating dinner instead of using furniture. There are millions of people doing that, capable of performing any job.

Most people on earth are living on less than 1 dollar per day.
Just the computer alone, which you're typing on right now, Ms. Pavlina, is equivalent to at least 1000 more days alive for a person in Africa. That is almost 3 years of living! Just "sitting" there in your computer!

In many African countries the median lifespan is approx. 50 years.
That is 50 * 365 = 18250. This means that it takes no more than $18250 (tops) saving another person's life. Just think about that. The appartment or house you are living in could save people's lives if you just moved to something smaller!

I believe that humans are smart and that any reasonable person would be able to do this argumentation and calculations I've just done. Noone seems to be living accordingly, though.

Therefore there are no "lightworkers" on this forum.

[Baltar]

Originally Posted by Logicseeker

If you really want to help people, its so simple. Just sell everything not needed for generating more money that you will give away to charity. You could sit on the floor eating dinner instead of using furniture.

If that's what it takes to be a lightworker, I'll be very happy to be a darkworker. This logic is flawed though. You're suggesting sacrificing your own comfort and well being to help others (which will ultimately diminish your ability to do so). As someone once said on this forum, the best way to help poor people is to not be one of them.

[Logicseeker]

No, I did not talk about your own well, I talked about the type of house you are living in, the carpets you walk on and the chair you are siting on. A rug on the floor might very well be enough to keep a person living for several months. Will that rug be crucial for your ability to help others in the future?

[yossarian]

Originally Posted by Logicseeker

I consider it a bunch om mumo-jumbo and that is because it is based on bad argumentation. Inflow and outflow was defined and when those definitions does not work anymore he switches to love/fear. I think this is an extension of the Law of Attraction in order to explain why this law does not work, and I think that this in itself goes to show that The LoA was not a law to begin with. Laws are universal and you don't need to elaborate on them like this.

technically speaking steve invented the inflow/outflow theory to explain the already accepted (by the new age/magical community) explanation to a different type of person. It's the repackaging of an ancient system, using impersonal "sciency" principles rather than the typical good/evil approach

there are a number of classical explanations, the most clear probably expressing it as there being two polarizations: service-to-self and service-to-others

in order to achieve this kind of "magical" power you need to choose one and polarize. you can't be a combination of both. this also has many other implications for the person who wants to dig deeper.

In my opinion Love/Fear is not the best way to put it either, it's always Love, it's just Love-Of-Self versus Love-Of-Others.

Love of Self/Love of Others
Service to self/Service to others
Energy inflow/Energy outflow

Steve's 3 components are Content, Thought Energy and Polarization.

The 3 classical components of magic are Wisdom, Love, and Power.

Wisdom = Content
Power = Thought Energy
Love = Polarization (love of self or love of others)

Add those things together and the theory is that you can do far more than just what we think of as "manifesting intentions". The rabbit hole goes much deeper.

[WanderingOak]

Originally Posted by Logicseeker

In many African countries the median lifespan is approx. years.
That is 50 * 365 = 18250. This means that it takes no more than $18250 (tops) saving another person's life. Just think about that. The appartment or house you are living in could save people's lives if you just moved to something smaller!

I believe that humans are smart and that any reasonable person would be able to do this argumentation and calculations I've just done. Noone seems to be living accordingly, though.

Therefore there are no "lightworkers" on this forum.

There are so many holes in your 'logic', that it would take me a good part of the evening to deal with all of them. For starters, a life on the dole, depending 100% on the charity of others, IHMO, is not a life worth living. Basically, your $18,250.00 would be condemning some poor soul to a life of misery, as he would have absolutely no incentive to improve his lot in life.

As far as the poll went, I chose the 'mumbo-jumbo' myself as well, as the thesis is too simplistic. It may work fine for a video game or a series of blockbuster movies, but not in the real world. It's more than just 'black' and 'white', or even shades of gray, but rather an nearly infinite variety of hues of color. The polarity thesis is like trying to explain the universe using only two dimensions.

Besides, I have seen video footage of a very charismatic orator who was definitely 'projecting' his own personal energy, working a crowd into a dynamic frenzy. However, I would not consider him to be a 'lightworker' by any means, nor would I consider his 'technique' to be that of a 'receiver' either.

[Logicseeker]

Originally Posted by WanderingOak

There are so many holes in your 'logic', that it would take me a good part of the evening to deal with all of them. For starters, a life on the dole, depending 100% on the charity of others, IHMO, is not a life worth living. Basically, your $18,250.00 would be condemning some poor soul to a life of misery, as he would have absolutely no incentive to improve his lot in life.

I know it is a lot to ask but please show me all the errors in my logic!

Of course we cannot create life, I just counted the days you can feed a person and 365 times 50 days ($18250) could be equivalent to one life, counted in days. I know that my post was sketchy but it should still drive home the point that there probably does not exist one single lightworker on this forum.

(And btw, there are a few million (edit: 5 billion+) religious persons believing that their whole life is a gift from God, they still seem to find life worth living. Is it different if the charity comes from humans?)

[WanderingOak]

Originally Posted by Logicseeker

I know it is a lot to ask but please show me all the errors in my logic!

Of course we cannot create life, I just counted the days you can feed a person and 365 times 50 days ($18250) could be equivalent to one life, counted in days. I know that my post was sketchy but it should still drive home the point that there probably does not exist one single lightworker on this forum.

(And btw, there are a few million religious persons believing that their whole life is a gift from God, they still seem to find life worth living. Is it different if the charity comes from humans?)

I noticed that you didn't attempt to refute any of my arguments. Your 'charity = lightworker' thesis is flawed because charity does not work. There are millions of guilty Westerners giving money to various third-world charities, and all they are doing is creating dependence upon those charities. Unfortunately, the best way to improve the lot of the third world is to allow them to stand up on their own two feet.

Didn't you say you were leaving, or did you decide to stick around and annoy us a bit?

[yossarian]

Originally Posted by Logicseeker

(And btw, there are a few million religious persons believing that their whole life is a gift from God, they still seem to find life worth living. Is it different if the charity comes from humans?)

Try a few 5 billion+

[Logicseeker]

Originally Posted by WanderingOak

I noticed that you didn't attempt to refute any of my arguments. Your 'charity = lightworker' thesis is flawed because charity does not work. There are millions of guilty Westerners giving money to various third-world charities, and all they are doing is creating dependence upon those charities. Unfortunately, the best way to improve the lot of the third world is to allow them to stand up on their own two feet.

Didn't you say you were leaving, or did you decide to stick around and annoy us a bit?

There are plenty of organisation directed at helping farmers how to grow more effectively etc. I think that would only decrease their dependancy.

Concerning the thread you linked to. Yes, I did intend to leave but I find these forums to be addictive. I did not write to annoy, one of the alternatives in the thread was that the theory was mumbo jumbo and in accordance to the first post I tried to explain why I thought so. If you think I did a bad job doing so excuse me, but at least that was my intention! Take care

[WanderingOak]

Originally Posted by Logicseeker

There are plenty of organisation directed at helping farmers how to more effectively etc. I think that would only decrease their dependancy.

The people they are trying to teach farming to invented the bloody thing. All these organizations do is condescend down to those 'little brown people' and try to teach them 'modern' Western farming techniques. More often than not, they teach pesticide intensive mechanized farming, using biotech crops that won't produce viable seeds. So, while this may not increase dependency on charity, but it would increase dependency on Western industries.

[Logicseeker]

Originally Posted by WanderingOak

The people they are trying to teach farming to invented the bloody thing. All these organizations do is condescend down to those 'little brown people' and try to teach them 'modern' Western farming techniques. More often than not, they teach pesticide intensive mechanized farming, using biotech crops that won't produce viable seeds. So, while this may not increase dependency on charity, but it would increase dependency on Western industries.

If you don't believe in charity organisations then why not
just fly down there during summer and give the money personally to schools etc? Its so cheap
If you dont want to do that you could give away money to charity organisations specialized in education and so forth.

[WanderingOak]

Originally Posted by Logicseeker

If you don't believe in charity organisations then why not
just fly down there during summer and give the money personally to schools etc? Its so cheap
If you dont want to do that you could give away money to charity organisations specialized in education and so forth.

Because I believe my time and energy is best spent at home, helping myself and people I know. 'Think globally, act locally' and all that.

[Logicseeker]

Originally Posted by WanderingOak

Because I believe my time and energy is best spent at home, helping myself and people I know.

Okay, if that is your belief then...

[Erock]

I like the idea behind polarization, because I believe the universe is affected greatly by energy, and learning to harness that energy can create powerful results. I hope there are more articles in the future clarifying this polarizing phenomenon, or using the energy of the universe.

[Jon]

Originally Posted by Logicseeker

A rug on the floor might very well be enough to keep a person living for several months.

By all means. How about the person who created the rug? Had they not created value and woven that rug and had you not purchased it, they might starve and needed charity support from someone else, who'd sell their worthless computer in order to do that.

Yes, that would make the world a better place.

[Logicseeker]

Originally Posted by Jon

By all means. How about the person who created the rug? Had they not created value and woven that rug and had you not purchased it, they might starve and needed charity support from someone else, who'd sell their worthless computer in order to do that.

Yes, that would make the world a better place.

Buy rug, sell it later

[Paul C]

Although, ultimately, I consider any label to be limiting by virtue. I would have to say that 'Lightworker' fits my overall nature much better than 'Darkworker'.

Maybe i'm just a romantic but, I find this talk of "both being equally acceptable paths" very impacting in my view of reality.

What I find very amusing about this also is that I suspect my own brother is a 'Darkworker" as they say. Yet we get along very well... most times. Coincidences hardly exist in my humble opinion.

[Jon]

Originally Posted by Logicseeker

Buy rug, sell it later

Similar situation. Because of the emerging second-hand-rug market, the rug manufacturers would sell less new rugs that they might otherwise have sold. This would soon lead to their employees' starvation.

You're proposing politically-correct short-term solutions. Things aren't as simple as giving up our material possessions, that only plays a small part in the big picture.

Since you're obviously interested in the subject, but maybe lacking information and perspective, I'll direct you to Dave Pollard's excellent blog:

How to Save the World

Starting perhaps with:
THE TRUTH ABOUT NATURE: HOW TO SAVE THE WORLD

Economics in one lesson by Henry Hazlitt is useful reading too:
Economics in One Lesson

[Logicseeker]

Thank you Jon, I'll be reading those articles amongst others.
Your view on this is quite extreme (which does not rule out that you could be right), most people would argue that help organistations actually help.
Anyway, it would be interesting to know if the people talking to dead men, dwell over these academic questions. I don't think so.

[Jon]

I'm trying to be realistic, no matter how brutal the truth may be. I wish it were simple and easy, but it's not