Broadcast Your Desires (Blog)

[munish]

Originally Posted by Steve Pavlina

I love slaves.

Slaves are awesome and should be held in high regard for the service they provide.

I wish Abraham Lincoln were there.

[shasah]

Originally Posted by Steve Pavlina

Like I've said in other threads, I love slaves. You make it sound like I'd want to abolish slavery (corporate or otherwise) and do away with all the benefits, which would be silly. Slaves are awesome and should be held in high regard for the service they provide.

I just think it's more honest to call them slaves rather than employees.

The word "slave" has no effect on free people, but it gets under the skin and helps to wake up those who are living very much like slaves without realizing it.

Even though you state that you say you don't want to abolish corporations, others in this thread indicate that they do. That is what annoys me. They do not seem have thought it through to what would be missing from their lives if there were no corporations. So how is being a sheep following a leader unquestioningly any better than being a slave?

And I agree with Midasgirl's last post that you can be just as much a slave to your own business as you can to a corporation. It's all in perspective.

[ogrekilleat]

Yeah, I totally agree with those who are saying having a job doesn't make a person a slave.

1) I love having a fulfilling, challenging job as an employee in a really cool industry, and I've also had mindless jobs such as hotel clerk that one doesn't take home at night, and those can be great, too, depending on what you want.

2) I always think it's interesting that people tend to think that everyone should want the same things.

3) A lot of people, particular in rich countries, have really lost sight of the fact that there are real slaves all over the world, who may have been kidnapped or tricked or sold by their families or someone else. We think it's awesome to call people who have choices and dignity ``slaves'', and I think it says a lot about a person's personality when they make the choice to abuse language and diminish real suffering like that.

[James81]

Originally Posted by ogrekilleat

Yeah, I totally agree with those who are saying having a job doesn't make a person a slave.

1) I love having a fulfilling, challenging job as an employee in a really cool industry, and I've also had mindless jobs such as hotel clerk that one doesn't take home at night, and those can be great, too, depending on what you want.

2) I always think it's interesting that people tend to think that everyone should want the same things.

3) A lot of people, particular in rich countries, have really lost sight of the fact that there are real slaves all over the world, who may have been kidnapped or tricked or sold by their families or someone else. We think it's awesome to call people who have choices and dignity ``slaves'', and I think it says a lot about a person's personality when they make the choice to abuse language and diminish real suffering like that.

I've give you number 3. In the same way the word "abuse" gets tossed around and devalued by people these days. Everything is some form of "abuse" these days. It's a bit out of kilter.

But as for 1 and 2...the people Steve (or anybody) is trying to reach with this idea are the one who DO feel so strongly about their situation that the word "slave" could very much describe how they FEEL (not what they ARE, but how they FEEL) about their situation. For example, I relate my experiences in my current job to being in a "prison" even though I KNOW that actual prison is far worse than the live I currently lead.

For people like me, this message rings true and really resonates with me because I KNOW that my TRUE point of action does not involve working for someone else. I'm pretty sure that *I* will be most happy when I create the kind of work I want to do and work for myself. So, for me, the message is very much true.

For people like you, though, the message does not ring true because you are content with your job and your lifestyle in that particular area. I think it would get pretty tedious to have to qualify all his blog posts with "If you are happy with your job, then I'm not talking to you." I know I get annoyed sometimes at having to qualify my posts with things like "this is a generalization" becaust it gets tiring explaining the meaning of a generalization every single time you MAKE a generalization. Boy, that conversation sure gets OLD OLD OLD after a while. lol

So, yeah, my point is that I think most people just ASSUME that they are targetting a specific group of people with this post and OBVIOUSLY are not trying to target EVERYBODY.

[ogrekilleat]

Originally Posted by James81

So, yeah, my point is that I think most people just ASSUME that they are targetting a specific group of people with this post and OBVIOUSLY are not trying to target EVERYBODY.

I agree with some of your point that a person can just talk to their audience without qualifying it, and I have no problem with that.

But while it's true his audience isn't everybody, but he's calling everyone who has a job a slave. That's not just about his audience, he's actually investing time in trying to convince his target audience that other people are slaves because of the choices they make.

But since you've conceded (3), which was my most important point, at this point I'm just filling up the corners

[James81]

Originally Posted by ogrekilleat

I agree with some of your point that a person can just talk to their audience without qualifying it, and I have no problem with that.

But while it's true his audience isn't everybody, but he's calling everyone who has a job a slave. That's not just about his audience, he's actually investing time in trying to convince his target audience that other people are slaves because of the choices they make.

I think that's part of the point though.

Perhaps to motivate a person who is a "slave" they must be awakened to the fact that they truly ARE a slave. Perhaps one method of moving out of that "slave" job they are in is start viewing their job through the lense of reality that working for someone else IS slavery so long as you are meant for something MORE than that. And here's the real kicker...for someone who is working a job that they are miserable at, when they are perfectly capable of creating their own business and working for themselves, isn't that a form of slavery? When you purposely hold yourself down from your true potential, isn't that a FORM of slavery...even if the slavery is self-imposed?

It's like in the move The Matrix where there are people who woke up from their reality to realize they were living in a dream world. Whereas MILLIONS of people didn't question their reality to that point that they realized this...those people, perfectly content to live in that "dream world" never woke up because it wasn't in them to wake up. Even when they won the war in the third movie, it was understand that there would always be a group of people connected to the matrix because they could not handle something different than what they always knew.

Which is what made the character Sipher so dramatic. He knew the real world and wanted to go back to the dream world.

It's kind of a similar thing IMO. Those who know what they are capable of, but purposely choosing to limit themselves due to their beliefs.

[MidasGirl]

Originally Posted by ogrekilleat

But while it's true his audience isn't everybody, but he's calling everyone who has a job a slave.

Like a lot of other effective writers, Steve sometimes likes to use satire and provocative language to make a point. Can't you see he's having a lot of fun with this when it irks people? I wouldn't take it too seriously.........

[Piercetheveil]

And I laugh.

[PaulV]

Originally Posted by James81

It's like in the move The Matrix where there are people who woke up from their reality to realize they were living in a dream world. Whereas MILLIONS of people didn't question their reality to that point that they realized this...those people, perfectly content to live in that "dream world" never woke up because it wasn't in them to wake up. Even when they won the war in the third movie, it was understand that there would always be a group of people connected to the matrix because they could not handle something different than what they always knew.

Which is what made the character Sipher so dramatic. He knew the real world and wanted to go back to the dream world.

I actually always wondered why none of the people that got "freed" questioned whether the real world they found themselves in really was the real world. If only 1 percent of people question the matrix at all, and so few question a second layer of it, why wouldn't the machines have just made a couple of layers of them. Maybe they even did, but we never know in the movies, and all that strife was just to make it convincing.

I think you're only a slave when you are in a situation you don't want to be in, but are somehow unable to get out of in a satisfying way (as in without landing in a worse situation). This inability though is often only a perceived one instead of a real one, and it's good to remind people of that (as Steve is trying to do as far I as can see). If you're happy with your job, your simply not a slave. Even a sub isn't really a slave, he/she is just pretending to be. I would assume that for most subs, the "slavery" would stop being fun if it became actually slavery.

[Manomanman]

Threats of firing, ignorance, debt and employment culture are the shackles of the wage slave. Threats of violence, ignorance, and slave culture are the shackles of the slave slave.

The former is legally entitled to leave, but doesn't. The latter is not legally entitled to leave. In reality, they're both shackled to a situation that robs them of their freedom.

The modern slave is that much more pathetic given that his freedom is an "I quit" away.

[PaulV]

Originally Posted by Manomanman

The modern slave is that much more pathetic given that his freedom is an "I quit" away.

But what exactly are you free from? Just quitting your job doesn't give you freedom in an absolute sense.

[Angela]

Originally Posted by PaulV

But what exactly are you free from? Just quitting your job doesn't give you freedom in an absolute sense.

Or even in a practical sense, either.

If you are practicing believing you don't have freedom (choice, opportunity) in your job, simply quitting your job probably isn't going to shift your perspective. Until and unless you move out of the perspective that your freedom or slavery depends on external circumstance, it's only a matter of the next external circumstance (a new job, your own business, a relationship, a lack of money) coming along in your life to have you being enslaved again.

The encouragement to just go ahead and quit your job and then you'll be free reminds me of the dad who throws his kid into the deepest part of the lake so that he'll learn how to swim (hopefully). Well, that's one way! And it might work. But it's something of an incomplete education.

[PaulV]

So being stuck in a job you hate is a symptom of a bigger problem and treating symptoms is ultimately useless.

[Angela]

Originally Posted by PaulV

So being stuck in a job you hate is a symptom of a bigger problem and treating symptoms is ultimately useless.

I don't know about useless -- a symptom like a hated job is a pretty big occurrence in your life, and it can take up so much of your attention and energy that quitting it might be just what it takes for you to effectively take on transforming the "bigger problem" or simply moving to a new perspective that works better.

But if you treat a symptom like a hated job ("abusive" relationship, etc.) without being at cause in the matter of your behavior, attitudes, beliefs, values, identity, and purpose, it's like putting a band-aid on an open, gaping chest wound. You're just bleeding out your own personal power.

[PaulV]

Yeah ok that makes sense.

[roxyruby]

Originally Posted by windsorspirit

Here are my current desires:

1. For the physical pain I’ve been experiencing since having surgery a few days ago to be completely gone.
2. To be more certain about what I want in my life.
3. To be joyously productive doing only what I like and love to do, which earns me vast financial abundance and serves the greater good.
4. To really enjoy my life as much as I can.
5. To feel truly fulfilled in my life, every day and night.
6. To have a social support network of like-minded and trusted friends, with whom I enjoy passing time.
7. For the above, or something better, to now manifest in my best interests and for the highest good of all.

*hug* aww I hope you feel better fast, get well soon!! *hands over a get well card and some chocolates*

[Manomanman]

Originally Posted by Angela

it's only a matter of the next external circumstance (a new job, your own business, a relationship, a lack of money) coming along in your life to have you being enslaved again.

To me, the entire point of conscious growth is to creates states of abundance which prevent the feeling of being enslaved.

I think its safe to say that "enslavement" is relative to a person's perspective. Do the vast majority of people feel like they're being enslaved by having jobs? Or do they feel empowered by the work they do? Most of the people I know hate what they do but do it anyway.

These people need a lot more than a perspective shift to free themselves.

[Angela]

Originally Posted by Manomanman

These people need a lot more than a perspective shift to free themselves.

I think you might be surprised at the wealth of freedom that's available to a human being out of one subtle shift in the way (s)he looks at things. I see it in every coaching client, and it's magnificent.

[carlon]

Originally Posted by shasah

Even though you state that you say you don't want to abolish corporations, others in this thread indicate that they do. That is what annoys me. They do not seem have thought it through to what would be missing from their lives if there were no corporations. So how is being a sheep following a leader unquestioningly any better than being a slave?

And I agree with Midasgirl's last post that you can be just as much a slave to your own business as you can to a corporation. It's all in perspective.

I agree with Midasgirl too. I think all the "slavers" probably never ran their own businesses. But I guess Steve is OK because he runs an LLC and not a corporation.

Shasha, don't let the "slaver threaders" bother you too much. Most of the personal development junk out there is predicated on making you feel like what you have is not good enough. They tell you to having your own business is better than being an employee and that's just crap. There is no "better". I'd much rather work for a company I like than own a business that I hate.

Seriously, with all the "slaver" talk on the thread, I feel like someone is about to ask me to join their Amway group.

[carlon]

Originally Posted by Manomanman

Threats of firing, ignorance, debt and employment culture are the shackles of the wage slave. Threats of violence, ignorance, and slave culture are the shackles of the slave slave.

The former is legally entitled to leave, but doesn't. The latter is not legally entitled to leave. In reality, they're both shackled to a situation that robs them of their freedom.

The modern slave is that much more pathetic given that his freedom is an "I quit" away.

You know I hate to get all serious on a personal development forum, but there are modern slaves in parts of Africa, the Middle East, and Asia who'd probably love to be a "modern wage slave".

I hate to point out the hard cold reality of the world, because bouncing around theoretical notions of the meaning of slavery is much more fun.

[Manomanman]

Originally Posted by carlon

You know I hate to get all serious on a personal development forum, but there are modern slaves in parts of Africa, the Middle East, and Asia who'd probably love to be a "modern wage slave".

I hate to point out the hard cold reality of the world, because bouncing around theoretical notions of the meaning of slavery is much more fun.

I used to let that serve as a justification for remaining a wage slave. "It's not all THAT bad, right? I could have been born a real slave!"

That was never any consolation to me. I'm still feeding my power to my employer and lowering my contribution to the world. The state of mind of the slave and the state of mind of the wage slave are closer than you would imagine. Both are kept in ignorance; both live in a state of stress and fear. Real slaves are sometimes treated better than wage slaves. It all depends on who your slave master/boss is, really.

[carlon]

Originally Posted by Manomanman

I used to let that serve as a justification for remaining a wage slave. "It's not all THAT bad, right? I could have been born a real slave!"

That was never any consolation to me. I'm still feeding my power to my employer and lowering my contribution to the world. The state of mind of the slave and the state of mind of the wage slave are closer than you would imagine. Both are kept in ignorance; both live in a state of stress and fear. Real slaves are sometimes treated better than wage slaves. It all depends on who your slave master/boss is, really.

That kind of reminds me of the justification Southerners used to give for keeping the institution of slavery before the American Civil War. "Heck, our slaves are better off than dem wage slaves up North." I do recall Fredrick Douglass (real slave, found in most history books) was elated at taking a job that paid him a wage for his labors. I guess that's the difference between being a real slave and just acting like you're one.

And as someone who's had employees before, let me just say that I wish I could have done without them. I depended on them as much as they depended on me. I wish I had known they were my slaves back then.

[shasah]

Originally Posted by carlon

Shasha, don't let the "slaver threaders" bother you too much. Most of the personal development junk out there is predicated on making you feel like what you have is not good enough. They tell you to having your own business is better than being an employee and that's just crap.

It actually bothers me more that some think that they can do away with corporations and still have the quality of life that they have now. I am very glad that I got into personal development but it does seem to be the consensus of the PD gurus that I should own my own business or make my money in other ways than "working for the man". That may happen someday, but for now, I'm happy where I am and instead concentrate on other areas that need my attention more.

There is no "better". I'd much rather work for a company I like than own a business that I hate.

100% agree!!!!

Seriously, with all the "slaver" talk on the thread, I feel like someone is about to ask me to join their Amway group.

[carlon]

Originally Posted by shasah

It actually bothers me more that some think that they can do away with corporations and still have the quality of life that they have now. I am very glad that I got into personal development but it does seem to be the consensus of the PD gurus that I should own my own business or make my money in other ways than "working for the man". That may happen someday, but for now, I'm happy where I am and instead concentrate on other areas that need my attention more.

I think a lot of those same PD gurus also offer products that "teach" you how to make money fast. I don't blame them. That's how THEY make money. If they told you that you were OK with working at your job, it might hurt THEIR income.

It simply pays better to convince "slaves" to pony up to become "masters".

[Manomanman]

Originally Posted by carlon

I guess that's the difference between being a real slave and just acting like you're one.

Wage slaves don't act like slaves - they literally are slaves. They do whatever they're told and punished if they don't. The only difference between the two is the legal entitlement.

We don't have legally-sanctioned slavery anymore because wage slavery benefits the wealthy much more than legally-sanctioned slavery does. It's much cheaper to "rent" a slave than it is to own, feed and house them.

[shasah]

Originally Posted by Manomanman

Wage slaves don't act like slaves - they literally are slaves. They do whatever they're told and punished if they don't. The only difference between the two is the legal entitlement.

We don't have legally-sanctioned slavery anymore because wage slavery benefits the wealthy much more than legally-sanctioned slavery does. It's much cheaper to "rent" a slave than it is to own, feed and house them.

Sorry, but I can't agree with you here. Someone who doesn't like their job and feels they are a "slave" to it, still has choices. They can choose where they live, who they marry, when to have kids, what they do for entertainment.... the list is endless. True slaves have none of those choices. Also, the type of punishment differs greatly. From "you are suspended for a day" to all the horrible things that happen to true slaves is a vast difference!!!

And, as a last resort, if a person truly feels the way you describe about a job then they always have other options. True slaves have options too though. Do it or die. See the difference?

[carlon]

Originally Posted by Manomanman

Wage slaves don't act like slaves - they literally are slaves. They do whatever they're told and punished if they don't.

The only difference is the legal entitlement.

Holy crap! Do what you're told or be punished? Now, you're telling me that the kids of America are all slaves!

Let's take a reality break:
employer ultimate punishment=you're fired (a desired outcome in your view)
slave's ultimate punishment =being set free?

This is getting more fun by the minute.

[free spirit]

I think the concept of "slavery" within a corporate environment is about perspective. If you work in a job you love, is fulfilling etc etc then your perspective is going to be vastly different from perhaps someone who is becoming aware of the brainwashing surrounding employment. Or perhaps
(s)he just hates their job.

I think there is such a backlash to people who genuinely enjoy their job on this forum, as many people are becoming or are already fully aware of the efforts employers and society go to to "enslave" their employees, including encouraging debt through greed, the pension carrot, the promotion carrot, "prestige", the list goes on. This is transferred to the persons family who starts to have an expectation that person will remain employed to provide for the family. Therefore the person who is employed and is gaining clarity of the situation feels like a slave.

Therefore those who love their jobs, don't take it too personally regarding the ranting about slavery. It just really hurts when you realise what employment is to many people and it gets even worse after you quit and you finally see the "truth" of employment for what it is!

[brendannz]

Originally Posted by MidasGirl

Like a lot of other effective writers, Steve sometimes likes to use satire and provocative language to make a point. Can't you see he's having a lot of fun with this when it irks people? I wouldn't take it too seriously.........

When I first read Steve Pavlina's "10 reasons you should never get a job" I was like "WTF that is sooo true" and basically it was all the stuff I'd been thinking about, but didn't really want to talk to others about it, because they'll think I'm lazy and a nutter

[carlon]

Originally Posted by free spirit

I think there is such a backlash to people who genuinely enjoy their job on this forum, as many people are becoming or are already fully aware of the efforts employers and society go to to "enslave" their employees, including encouraging debt through greed, the pension carrot, the promotion carrot, "prestige", the list goes on. This is transferred to the persons family who starts to have an expectation that person will remain employed to provide for the family. Therefore the person who is employed and is gaining clarity of the situation feels like a slave!

When I had employees in my business, the thing I had to say the most was "Do you damn job!" It's always the charge of the whine brigade. Sorry, but complaining that corporations are "brainwashing" you and society is making you greedy sounds like an excuse to me. And this talk on these threads of "brainwashing" sounds like a convenient way to feel better about yourself for doing a bad job at work. I don't mean you personally, freespirit, I mean "you" as everyone.

If you hate your job, quit. But 99% of people who talk to me about quitting their jobs never do. It's not about "brainwashing" or "not overcoming the slave mentality", it's just that starting a business is hard work--harder than Steve lets on in some of his posts.

I think the backlash against people who like their jobs is because some people are so miserable in their jobs that they resent people who are happy. Unfortunately, resentment masquerading as personal development is all too common. It's sad really.