Separation (Blog)

[Savage]

Use this thread to discuss the following entry from Steve Pavlina's blog:

Separation

[Boldnut]

When I've read the article I felt like seeing a preview of a new season of my favorite show, where major turns happens.

[freddy]

I hope that Erin checks in to share her feelings as well. Blessing to the family Good luck to you both.

[AlwaysLearning]

The end of building is ruin.
The end of meeting is parting.
The end of accumulation is dispersal.
The end of birth is death.
-Ken McLeod

The actions you are taking are those of an extremely conscious person. That's why I read you in the first place. I hope with this "new lens" you'll have ample material to make good on your start-of-year plan to write lots of articles about relationships.

[Rachel Rofe]

Wow.

When I read the first paragraph of the blog entry, I felt sick to my stomach. (I was surprised to feel that strongly about it!)

Reading through the rest of the post, I get it... though it seems so QUICK since the workshop, where everything seemed so great...

But that being said, I also recently broke up with someone that I'm still best friends and business partners with, and everyone seemed equally shocked... so I get it...

But still. Wow.

I wish you both the best of luck.

[Amro]

Wow. This is awesome, you guys are truly exemplary people for following the path with a heart, especially with regard to relationships.

I can't help but feel a rise in my consciousness as a consequence of the decision you've made. No doubt I'm going to find your upcoming blog posts detailing this transition highly valuable.

[st33med]

I am having a hard time adjusting to what you just said. When you say, "We are getting a divorce," it has so much negative connotations for me.

Divorce is something I have never heard of in a positive way. What happens in most divorces is that people absolutely hate their ex. At best people keep quite about their feelings.

And if someone asked you about you and Erin?
"We got a divorce."
"Aww, I feel sorry for you..."
"Why? We both feel more free to do things we want and we are still friends."
"...Uhhhhhh..."


So, what do you mean by friends? Do you guys still love each other?
And will Erin have to change her site name?

[richardxthripp]

Steve, it sounds like you're having a mid-life crisis... I've been following your blog diligently for a year, I've read your book, and most of your archives. I started blogging about personal development because of you (my writing is awful though). In this post you talk about decisions you made with your wife, but it sounds like it's all you. It's you who wanted to date other women. It's you who wants to run away from your children. How can you be sure you're raising your consciousness? You could be regressing.

If you're going to break up, I suppose you should go all the way. Move six women into those six bedrooms and become one of those David DeAngelo types. Make sure you charge them rent to pay that mortgage + child support. Then in a year you'll want to be back with Erin and the kids.

I wish you good tidings and I hope you find what you're looking for.

[AdamA]

Wow Steve,

This is the most shocking post I think I've ever read here (and I've read a lot of them - including the polyamory stuff).

I'm sorry to hear that you and Erin are getting a divorce, but I'm glad to hear you'll be parting on such good terms. It's better for the kids that the parents get along.

As a kid whose parents got divorced, my heart goes out to your kids. I think divorce always affects kids no matter how "nice" it is.

I wish you and your family the best.

[marito]

Hope it's for the best for you Steve and for Erin! Wish you well!

[ericabiz]

Wow. Devastating.

I have never idealized marriage the way many people do, but I always looked up to you and Erin as a great example of two highly-conscious beings who were making marriage work. Now that you have decided to separate, it kind of trips up my world view.

Do you think highly-conscious people can ever be in a happy marriage with each other? Or will there always be a yearning for more that marriage just can't satisfy?

-Erica

[ant333]

Good on you both for looking at the hard truth and working out what lies there.

I've never thought much about marriage, it seemed to be a artificial construct designed to keep two people together via law. If people want to be together, they will, marriage or no marriage.

All the best and good luck with the transition!

[Rachel Rofe]

I can't stop thinking about this.

Are you sure 3 weeks is enough time to come to this decision???

I mean, you said you had no idea it'd come to this before the workshop and that wasn't even a month ago.

Maybe this is part of amplified emotions you're feeling right now...?

(I mean no disrespect at all there.)

Hmph. Maybe I'm getting so worked up about this because it makes me question things, makes me uncomfortable. I wonder if there are people who DO have amazing, fulfilling, excellent and intimate relationships for LIFE.

Like I said in my last post, I broke up with my ex. We had a phenomenal relationship, but we both thought there might be "more" out there.

This rubbish, elusive, "more".

Seeing you guys at the workshop and reading your blog entries, it seemed as if you guys had the best friend part down AND the intimate part AND the endless compliments AND the mutual adoration...

And it's just really, really, sad to me to see that even that wasn't good enough.

Again, I guess I understand. I understand the LOGIC behind it. I understand how it can be a growth thing to keep pushing yourselves, to seek out new experiences, to find people that have more similar goals to what you've moved on to...

But still. Blech!

Based on this and other things I've heard about lately, it seems as if there's no everlasting "comfortable" if you're constantly growing. That is, unless the comfort is in being uncomfortable.

[Anna Conlan]

When I read your post it felt like sort of shocking, a bit like when my parents decided to get divorced. I guess like Erica says I have always looked up to you two as people who could be in a marriage and still on a path of growth.

I am wondering the same thing as Erica asked – can marriage work for highly conscious people, long term? I always felt that it’s not my path because it would restrict my freedom to grow.

I wish you both the best and love how courageous you are.

[Alex]

Haven't commented in awhile, but you brought me back with this one. As many of your readers, I tend to learn a lot of life lessons through your personal life.

It was interesting for me to see which emotions I experienced as I read this article. I temporarily immersed myself in your situation, and found out a little bit about myself in the process.

I'm still trying to figure out how to fully utilize the principles of Truth, Love, & Power in my life. It's nice to see that you're living your life the way that you portray yourself -- with integrity.

Enjoy now, both of you.

[Manomanman]

Steve,

You have no idea how much "energy" you released during your first CGW workshop. I can't speak for every conference attendee, but I can tell you without a doubt that the course of my life was changed by your workshop. I'm having to "divorce" a lot of things in my former life, and I'm experiencing emotional pain on a daily basis. But it's the kind of pain that leads to healing.

My life has become unpredictable since I left Vegas earlier this month. And you want to know something? My life is all the better for it. Predictability is severely overrated. We're addicted to repetitive patterns, constantly held back by the inertia of our present circumstances.

Some people were somewhat aware of the struggle in your marriage at the workshop - a couple of people mentioned some things to me. I was not terribly surprised when I read this blog post.

Conscious growth can be a ♥♥♥♥♥ sometimes. I just hope the joy/sorrow continuum rebounds soon

[Manomanman]

Originally Posted by Rachel Rofe

Are you sure 3 weeks is enough time to come to this decision???

1. Steve is good at making decisions quickly. He just compiles all of the available data and then spends 1 minute deciding.

2. If you go back to Steve's polyamory stuff, you'll see patterns forming that led to this eventuality.

A conscious divorce is a lot different than a really negative, nasty divorce.

[Rachel Rofe]

Originally Posted by Manomanman

1. Steve is good at making decisions quickly. He just compiles all of the available data and then spends 1 minute deciding.

2. If you go back to Steve's polyamory stuff, you'll see patterns forming that led to this eventuality.

A conscious divorce is a lot different than a really negative, nasty divorce.

To be completely honest, I did see patterns developing. The polyamory was one thing, the raw foods in a mostly vegan household was another (that's a huge issue with a lot of raw foodies I know), and I actually did feel it (and asked someone for their hit on it) at the workshop.

However, I chose to rapidly dismiss all of that.

I think, like Erica, I loved the idea that conscious, growth-minded people could be happy together. Erin and Steve were my some of my sole icons for that kind of relationship.

That's probably why I'm having a hard time with it.

I do wish both of them the best though.

[Manomanman]

Originally Posted by Rachel Rofe

I think, like Erica, I loved the idea that conscious, growth-minded people could be happy together. Erin and Steve were my some of my sole icons for that kind of relationship.

Steve Pavlina is the least hypocritical person on the face of the planet. That being said, he truly does practice what he preaches. He constantly tells people, "If it's not working, leave, spare yourself the denial."

They are happy together and always will be. It's just that they are changing the way they will be together - less phyiscally connected. They will always have a spiritual/mental/ethereal connection.

[Rachel Rofe]

I meant happy together in an intimate, live-together romantic relationship sort of way. I know they'll always be happy together on a soul level.

[CAlex6977]

Gotta say. Though Im surprised, I am left with a grin. Im a 32 year old single man. I found your site sometime in 2007 and have since made nearly a full 180. I was on a destructive path ruining many things and basically looking at life through that why me lens we all had at one time. Through these years of growing and changing I have not had a steady relationship at all.
Mariage has always been a mystery to me. Look at most animals, mariage is virtually non existent in nature. I always just thought it was weird to tie yourself together with someone. The power of two beings sharing goals and focus can be exhilarating. There follows with all this that all people are slightly different. There are parts of others that simply just dont hold true with your own beliefs. Ive discovered this with girlfriends,family, work aquaintances, friends and even pets.
People change and recognizing the right time to break amicably is something that many of us are not very good with. Im happy for you two. Glad to see that one of the biggest influences in my life has yet again enlightened me and shown me a lesson I never thought I would discover from him.
When you start hitting the singles meetups and exploring the single world please let me know. Here in vegas things are always going. I wouldnt mind being in the PPS(Pavlina Pickup Squad). Conscious growth, intelligent conversation and deep emotional connections are our way. Honesty, openness, trust and fun are our game!

[estudiant9]

Wow.

Thanks for this honest and courageous post. I wish you well. I don't have a good grasp of how challenging a decision this may be for you, but be strong, and please take good care of yourself. You're important to me. I don't know what else to say.

I haven't been this emotionally moved by your post since I'd read The Meaning of Life series. Great post. Thank you.

[MidasGirl]

Oh well......welcome to the club

On a serious note, I'm just glad for you guys that you are splitting up in such an amicable way. But I don't expect anything less with 2 highly conscious people.

I'm sure some of your 'followers' will be sad or affected in whatever number of ways (always happens when people with a following of sorts divorce). But eventually they'll come to terms with it.

I just have to say this, please don't underestimate the effect this may have on your kids, even when it's amicable. I know you guys are pros, but many kids wonder if they weren't important enough for the parents to stay together, if nothing else, as they don't totally understand the complexities of the adult world of course. Sometimes kids might stifle their real feelings to not want to hurt their parents, just in case you didn't know.


All the best.

[mmartin2009]

Congrats! I hope I can bring this kind of honest clarity to my relationships!

[Rachelle]

Originally Posted by Anna Conlan

I always felt that it’s not my path because it would restrict my freedom to grow.

I think I know what you mean, Anna! I've been struggling with the concept for a while now.


...
Interestingly, I strongly felt this coming, for a while! I don't know if this means I'm intuitive on some level or what, but I do know when I was at the workshop this month, I got the strong vibe that Steve and Erin's marriage to each other was holding both of them back from fully realizing their individual potential. I had a little prediction of sorts in my mind that told me the marriage would be over before the end of the year. (To see this prediction actually come true is a little eerie for me.)

I hope Steve and Erin are both taking comfort that this really is the best decision for both of you. Your personal growth and development will certainly soar from here on in (for the both of you).

Love to you both.
xo

[Adrienne]

Congratulations on taking this next step to create the future you want. My thoughts are with you as you figure it out and move forward into the fugture you conscientiously create.

[Jeff Lilly]

For Steve:

No wonder you've been wandering in the desert recently. :-)

I've been divorced for a year now. We were married for ten years and had four children, ages ranging from 11 to 5. When we divorced, I had nowhere to live, and I had to suddenly move to a new place I had trouble affording. A few months after that, I lost my job!

But now I have a new place and a new job. Both she and I have found new partners, and we are all four on excellent terms. The kids are handling everything beautifully.

For me, the most wonderful thing about divorce was being able to spend time alone again. :-) I was able to draw a great deal of strength from the hours I could spend by myself, in various kinds of meditation. I was able to reconnect with the deepest parts of myself, parts I'd buried away for a decade, parts that had been too quiet to hear in a house full of kids. I found solid earth where I could stand, while the world moved and changed around me. This is what I credit most for our smooth transition and excellent outcome.

I've written a little about this on my blog, but mostly I've been too busy living rather than writing. :-) But anyway, Steve, I know you're going to do awesome; and if there's any way I can help, let me know.

[Amro]

Originally Posted by ericabiz

Do you think highly-conscious people can ever be in a happy marriage with each other? Or will there always be a yearning for more that marriage just can't satisfy?

Originally Posted by Anna Conlan

I am wondering the same thing as Erica asked – can marriage work for highly conscious people, long term? I always felt that it’s not my path because it would restrict my freedom to grow.

I've posed this same question to myself.

From my initial observations, it seems marriage is simply a (increasingly temporary) lock on a connection between two people - an institution designed to socially recognize (and to a great degree, enforce) a connection between two people while easing logistical issues in society. From what I've seen, people generally leave the institution because (a) they no longer have a connection with each other and thus choose to disconnect, (b) the need to expand their connection to include others (Oneness), thus expanding beyond the confinements.

The more I think about marriage, the more I see it as a simple (arguably archaic) form of socially recognized connection. Personally, I believe the idea of institutionalized monogamy is discordant with personal growth. Granted, there's nothing wrong with it - it's an option like any other.

I'm sure the same positive benefits, such as deep connection with another, can be had just as easily without the social framework of a marriage. Highly conscious people are aware of these things, the rules of certain institutions, and thus play by their own rules (guided by the TLP principles).

Edit: I was thinking about posting a link to Johnny Soporno's work, but he'd already posted below...

[Johnny Soporno]

Your shared love and appreciation for one-another has won-out over any ego-centric 'optics minded' posturing, and lead you both to an emotionally mature and relationship-protecting course of action!

As one would expect, you and Erin approached this with your eyes open and your loyalties in synch; each of you remaining loyal to YOURSELVES first, which thereby meant consciously considering the best things for your children, and your beloved friend in the process.

Both Violet and I wish you both great luck and success, and to remind you that you can count on our continued friendship, jointly and severally!

Johnny & Violet

[Hunter Nuttall]

(Resisting the instinct to express sympathy, since it doesn't seem to be needed/wanted/appropriate in this case.)

They say that marriages have a certain lifespan, and they're just not meant to last beyond it. This wasn't an issue back in the old days, when the lifespan of our marriages exceeded the lifespan of our bodies.

But we're living longer these days, giving marriages a better chance of reaching their natural end. And polyamory seems to be on the rise.