Separation (Blog)

[James81]

And lol, maybe we should get a new thread for this stuff? Or maybe a mod can split this discussion out or something so we don't keep mucking up Steve's thread?

[James81]

Originally Posted by marinik

James I babysit my step-granddaughter when ever I am asked too. But I never had any help from anyone while I was raising the kids. My parents lived 19.000kn away and my mother in law was an "I" type. But I understand what you are saying. Wait until you get there. At 50 we are not grandmas any more. You can not live for others all the time.

Heh, yeah, I understood what you were saying too.

You post just sparked something in me...something I thought I'd dealt with but apparently I need to examine a little bit more.

[seeker5]

Originally Posted by James81

And lol, maybe we should get a new thread for this stuff? Or maybe a mod can split this discussion out or something so we don't keep mucking up Steve's thread?

There already is a thread about our own exploration of divorce here if you're interested in participating: Divorce Note: That thread is only for exploring your own emotional reactions to divorce. The other thread that is about discussing children reaction in a divorce is here: Children of Divorced Parents

[cylon]

By the time my Mother had me she had already had two kids with another man and had been married since she was 17 years old, so when I was born it was "now it's my time!" She was never really there for me growing up (my Dad raised me), and now that she's pushing 60 she's wanting to make up for lost time and giving me guilt trips for not calling her all the time, whereas before I was a bit of an inconvenience for her.

Oh well. We get the family we get I suppose, no sense in complaining. But this discussion brings that stuff up for me.

[Radactrice]

Originally Posted by James81

I've structured my new life around my kids and I've found that it works pretty well so far.

You shouldn't make it sound like that the non-custodial parents just teeters our of their kids life because of the divorce. The non-custodial parent makes a choice...and that choice involves either remaining in their kids' lives or choosing to phase themselves out.

That's the absolute key...you've structured your new life around your kids and you've made a choice. However, it is easier for the non-custodial parent to have the "out of sight, out of mind" attitude. To be honest, it's harder to be a vital, present, active divorced parent than it is to be one in a marriage. Certainly not impossible and my ex and I did co-parent, but we made the choice. The days the kids were with me were non-negiotiable and vice versus. The kids came first. Period.

[carenkh]

Originally Posted by seeker5

There already is a thread about our own exploration of divorce here if you're interested in participating: Divorce

They're not discussing divorce, exactly. They're discussing... availability of parents, maybe? Not sure how it would be titled. Grandparents babysitting?

[James81]

Originally Posted by Radactrice

That's the absolute key...you've structured your new life around your kids and you've made a choice. However, it is easier for the non-custodial parent to have the "out of sight, out of mind" attitude. To be honest, it's harder to be a vital, present, active divorced parent than it is to be one in a marriage. Certainly not impossible and my ex and I did co-parent, but we made the choice. The days the kids were with me were non-negiotiable and vice versus. The kids came first. Period.

I moved my reply to this to this thread:

Children of Divorced Parents

[seeker5]

Originally Posted by carenkh

They're not discussing divorce, exactly. They're discussing... availability of parents, maybe? Not sure how it would be titled. Grandparents babysitting?

Good point, however, it does reflect upon bad beliefs concerning divorce, which I would think would involve all this stuff about kids.

Instead, maybe a new thread can be called "Dealing with kids in a divorce".

[Rapid]

Hi, everyone. Betrade, I want to thank you for sharing your story. I come from a nuclear family. I've seen my parents going through some rough patches but the word "divorce" never came out of their lips as far as I know. I'm so glad that they are still together after all these years. I can't tell you how important it is for me to have both a father figure and a mother figure in my life. My parents are strong and soft in different ways, if this makes any sense. I've learned different lessons from each of them. Even though I'm in my thirties, I know that news of a divorce would still leave me broken-hearted.

I think having "complete freedom" to do whatever you want is over-rated. I used to wish that I were a millionaire so that I could live life as I wish. What a foolish idea that was (at least for me). Has anyone else read The Paradox of Choice? I tend to overanalyze and worry so having a million bucks in my bank account would probably make life worse for me. Of course, this is only a conjecture, but an educated one at that.

Thank goodness that "complete freedom" is trapped in the Pandora's box. I think "limit" is here for a reason. I've never been financial well-off but always managed to find resources to conduct life experiments on a small scale. For instance, I found out after spending only a few thousand dollars (over a period of time) on courses and a small options account that trading wasn't for me. I'm glad that I didn't have $50,000 to waste on the experiment.

I was surprised when I read Steve's "Separation" post, but I wasn't shocked. I've come to expect the unexpected from Steve. So, people, just let things (i.e. whatever you read here) roll off your backs.

Best wishes to all.

[James81]

Originally Posted by seeker5

Good point, however, it does reflect upon bad beliefs concerning divorce, which I would think would involve all this stuff about kids.

Instead, maybe a new thread can be called "Dealing with kids in a divorce".

Yeah.

Michelle kicked me out of her thread too.

We just need a new one.

[seeker5]

Originally Posted by James81

Yeah.

Michelle kicked me out of her thread too.

We just need a new one.

James, just sent you a pm explaining it. I actually moved you out when I realized the mistake I did in directing you guys to that thread. I took your post and started a new thread here: Children of Divorced Parents.

[Daffy Duck]

This is a little surprising, but than again it's not. Every once in a while when browsing the forum and reading about Steve and Erin, I had this nagging feeling that they would eventually divorce. I always thought it was just a silly thought but I guess it had some merit.

As always, I wish you two and your family the best. I really do. I'm sure this will work out just fine. I'm glad you two are highly aware of your children in this decision.

God bless!

Originally Posted by ericabiz

Do you think highly-conscious people can ever be in a happy marriage with each other?

Of course! Do you think there are no two highly-conscious people in the whole world that are happily married? Besides, Steve and Erin were conscious and happily married for many years.

It all depends on what those two conscious people want out of their life. With Steve and Erin, it seems their personal goals are not fully compatible with the idea of marriage. To stay happy and love in a committed relationship, your personal moral and goals have to be aligned with the idea, and it's a choice you have to make every day until you die. Ya know? Ya know. I know ya know.

I don't think we can create specific rules on what a conscious person does or doesn't do. That's what we have religion for!

[bluedragon]

I see that people really got hung up on this one thread. I never thought anything of is rather than a conscious decision, which it is. I continue to think of Steve and Erin in exactly the same way. Yea, of course I asked myself, does this mean that Polyamory doesn't really work, but that's mainly because I expected everyone else will now say that, but the truth is, the reason why you would chose polyamory is that you don't want to limit yourself, and that is exactly the reason why you may chose to get a divorce later on. No contradiction there. There are people who stay in a monogamous relationship and then split up, or even worse, cheat on one another.

As the taoists say, you never know if a decision is good or bad. One day it may look good, and the next something bad may happen as a result of what happened today, or the other way around. Good or bad are such relative concepts, and feelings are so changeable. What matters is what is beyond good or bad, beyond right and wrong, and that is who we are as souls and even deeper than that, and if you understand that, than a break-up is just a passing (even if sometimes very serious) episode of this game of life, this "Play of Lilla".

[Radactrice]

How Erin, Steve and their children fare is something only time can tell. It's way too early to decide this is totally the best thing ever for all of them or the most disasterous decision possible. To be honest, I'm betting that it, like most divorces, will end up somewhere in the middle. Not all roses and rainbows but not all storm clouds and downpours.

[minervana]

This caught me by surprise, but at the same time I think it's a good thing. If Steve and Erin feel that it's time for their marriage to end, then they should end it. Why not? If it will make them happier people, and better parents, I don't see why not.

It's interesting how many people in this thread project their own bad situation growing up onto Steve and Erin's. That's human nature, I guess. But you have to remember that your situation is different from theirs.

I don't know if getting a divorce will permanently scar kids in every situation. A lot of the time, the trauma is not so much the change in living situation (although that's part of it) but the bitterness, pettiness and animosity between the parents. One of the biggest traumas of divorce is open parental conflict. A contentious marriage or a contentious divorce are going to have their strain on the children.

It's nice to know that a good marriage can come to an end. There's this idea that happy marriages should go on and on and on and on, that longevity is the only true test of a relationship. That's not the case. I remember seeing something in the newspaper of "Happy Couple Celebrates 75th Wedding Anniversary." Both of them were scowling at the camera and had their arms crossed over their chests. What good does that do?

[lafingguy]

funny, the thing that most caught me by surprise was the part about Erin having full custody of the kids.
I thought Steve would want more of their presence in his life. I may also have missed something about them spending time with him.

I've just completed a very smooth (ok, excellent) divorce and both my ex and I were firmly focused on the kids. We have 50/50 custody, the kids enjoy being at both homes and I'm continually thankful for their presence.

I'm very curious how this will all work out :-)

Best of luck Steve,
B

[alekseykravtsun]

Steve, Erin, Separatoin was a first post which insulted and disappointed me since I became regular visitor of your site (since end of 2005). You was so close to be a perfect pair, and be a good example for others. Every day I train my wife on things out of this website and tried to apply things you advise, but what will I tell her tonight, Steve and Erin separate, let's try the same... No, I will not do that... I love my wife and my kid. Regarding you both I am completely depressed but respect your desision and wish you all the best.

[munish]

Why are you feeling insulted?

If you read Steve's posts , he has clearly said that he doesn't believe in the institution of Marriage anymore .

[alekseykravtsun]

I feel insulted because Steve's life style was pattern for me, but not any more... and such feeling coming from braking pattern.

[Marth]

Hey good luck man, I am going through a big transition too, I just lost my main job online and am looking for more work. It's been a struggle to say the least.

Ill say small prayer for both of you mate.

[airplus]

Hi, first time poster

Steve is asking people to stop making assumptions, so I will only point out the known facts:

- he is giving sole custody to Erin.

Yes, that's right, upfront, right away, at the very outset, he is already giving up on the custody. This is a fact.

The rationale presented is to provide a "stable" home. Steve, who told you the kids need a "stable" home? Have you consider giving them "stable" parents instead?

- The other fact is what is not said.
You see, you have already discussed business arrangements, living arrangements, etc. Kids have already moved out and you guys have updated Facebook, blogs, etc.

But the visitation arrangements (yes, visitation, you now "visit" your kids, you gave up custody remember?) are not even mentioned. This is a fact. They are not in your post, you have not mentioned it in your answers so far and this speaks volumes.

If, as per your "rationale", you want to bring “stability”, don’t you think the kids needs to have clear, regular, STABLE, predictable visitation schedule arrangements?

These are just the facts.

Now my opinion

You can divorce your partner, but PLEASE don’t divorce your kids. Even if you think playing Halo is the only thing you can do as a dad.

How about a 90 days trial of shared custody / shared parenting time? If you/the kids don’t like it you can always revert to the current situation. You may find it really a great growth experience to blog about.

And unlike most divorced men, you are blessed with the time, money and big house to do it. Please consider doing a shared custody trial.
You may find it is worthy; after all, you have made bigger sacrifices with previous, more trivial trials.

And is also fair on Erin, she may want to have some free time to try new things now

[MidasGirl]

I find it almost comical that there are people so disappointed at Steve because they made him their role model and now he has failed them in their eyes I guess. Do you realize you made the choice to make a human being your role model and that this human being did not participate in your decision? There's a difference between role model and god-like figure.

You realize that Steve is a human being right? Take the things that you admire about him and throw away those that you don't. But it is completely foolish to idolize anyone as if they were perfect. Maybe you what you can take from this is that he's courageous enough to live his truth, regardless of what others think of him, and model that from him. If you made him your role model, then you're failing yourself by not modeling this very bold move on his part(for him it's letting go of his marriage, what about you, what things do you need to let go in your life?). That.......or stop making other people your idols. Make yourself your idol.

[julien]

Aside from the kids, who are the most important, one of the very difficult things to handle for Erin will be her business trademark "Erin Pavlina". When you think about it, even if Steve and Erin get a divorce, Erin will have to carry Steve's name for the rest of her life (since losing the domain name is roughly equal to losing the business, given the search engines' ranking algorithms and given the brand image). It can be a particularly thorny issue -psychologically at least-, especially if someday she plans to get remarried. Besides, a huge part of the Pagerank going to Erinpavlina's website comes from the link from Stevepavlina, which also means that Erin's website will be dealt a massive blow if someday Steve removes the link to her website (not removing the "do-follow" link on Steve's page is actually equivalent to a HUGE transfer of traffic and diminishes the pagerank and thus the rank of stevepavlina in Google, since Pagerank can only be transferred).

[Aleksander Krstic]

Originally Posted by julien

Aside from the kids, who are the most important, one of the very difficult things to handle for Erin will be her business trademark "Erin Pavlina". When you think about it, even if Steve and Erin get a divorce, Erin will have to carry Steve's name for the rest of her life (since losing the domain name is roughly equal to losing the business, given the search engines' ranking algorithms and given the brand image). It can be a particularly thorny issue -psychologically at least-, especially if someday she plans to get remarried. Besides, a huge part of the Pagerank going to Erinpavlina's website comes from the link from Stevepavlina, which also means that Erin's website will be dealt a massive blow if someday Steve removes the link to her website (not removing the "do-follow" link on Steve's page is actually equivalent to a HUGE transfer of traffic and diminishes the pagerank and thus the rank of stevepavlina in Google, since Pagerank can only be transferred).

She is going to keep her last name and I believe Steve won't delete her link. Or forums.

[julien]

Originally Posted by Aleksander Krstic

She is going to keep her last name and I believe Steve won't delete her link. Or forums.

Precisely, imagine the psychological impact that keeping the last name can have on a recomposed family ... I think it must be terribly hard to handle, not only for Erin in this case, for her family in the future ...

If Steve keeps the link on his site, it will be equivalent with transferring the pagerank of his website towards Erin's, and considering Steve's website, this is worth tens if not hundreds of thousands dollars a year ... (but I know Steve's generous, so yeah, maybe he'll keep the link there )

[aelle]

Originally Posted by julien

Precisely, imagine the psychological impact that keeping the last name can have on a recomposed family ... I think it must be terribly hard to handle, not only for Erin in this case, for her family in the future ...

Blah. It's just a name. It only has as much significance as you give it - and Erin seems to be okay with it. Everyday some women take their husband's name - and there's no big trauma of abandoning your birth family because of it. Everyday women get married and keep their maiden name, and it has nothing to do with refusing to commit to your marriage. It's a strong symbol for some people, for others it really is neutral. Erin says she's fine with keeping her married name, I have no reason not to believe her.

[Gene]

Originally Posted by julien

Aside from the kids, who are the most important, one of the very difficult things to handle for Erin will be her business trademark "Erin Pavlina".

I think even if Erin changed her last name she could still use Pavlina as her business name. In the theater and movies actors often have stage names and in business the enterprise could be Erin Pavilina even if her name changed.

[joyfulgrowth]

Thanks, MidasGirl!

[Dan Morelle]

Freedom and living consciously is challenging your own assumptions, expectations and conditioning.

A strange dividend of your 'separation' is that you're both getting lots more attention; increased comments on facebook, twitter as well as the emails. People care but some people are also being entertained. Are you enjoying this extra attention?

Seriously though, Erin wouldn't make the switch to a Mac right?

[Magicinthenight]

Originally Posted by James81

Then you really have no idea what the hell you are talking about, do you?

Look, I see your point because I've been a leader of sorts to kids my whole life (and am myself a single father btw).

But it's one thing to be standing outside of a situation looking in and saying all kinds of stuff on how things *should* be. It's something completely different to walk that path yourself and know what it's like.

How easy it is to stand outside and cast judgement on people for the decisions they make when we don't have to live with those decisions ourselves.

I really don't get the vibe that Steve is just going to up and abandon his kids, so I think most of what you are saying here doesn't really apply.

So one can only have an opinion if they've experienced the situation from a certain side only? Well, how about: you can't know what divorce does to a child until you've been a child who's lived through their parent's divorce?

FWIW, I said in my first post I wasn't addressing Steve's situation as I don't know how they will handle things, I quoted the post I was writing in reply to aswell so if anything, I was casting judgement on the tone of that post.