Separation (Blog)

[TimRobinson]

Originally Posted by richardxthripp

If you're going to break up, I suppose you should go all the way. Move six women into those six bedrooms and become one of those David DeAngelo types. Make sure you charge them rent to pay that mortgage + child support.

Lol I see project Vegas starting in Steves house very soon

[ogrekilleat]

For those who are wondering whether marriages are compatible with being "highly conscious", I recommend the books by Hugh and Gayle Prather, particularly "I Will Never Leave You." I'm currently exploring the space that lies between the two extremes of total, unconditional commitment to another person, and total commitment to myself and my own needs and figuring out how to approach my own relationships, and this book has been a very important book for me in thinking about the first extreme. It is quite extreme, but it's a good read, and it's been useful for me to at least consider what it would mean to be totally committed (and totally committed to), particularly because I'm so uncertain about what I think is a good approach to relationships. If anyone reads it, I'd be interested in any discussions about it that anyone might be interested in having.

[yossarian]

Originally Posted by TimRobinson

Lol I see project Vegas starting in Steves house very soon

4300 square feet and 6 bedrooms... If they share bunks Steve could easily fit 20 concubines in this harem

Just don't forget the eunuch bodyguards!

And don't invite Tyler Durden to sleep in the closet!

[munish]

I think Steve has taken the decision consciously and for the benefit of his children and Erin.

[yossarian]

When I think about it, isn't this separation really just a formality at this point? They were already in an open relationship. The only thing that has changed is

1. They signed the papers

2. Erin moved out. Which is really no different than if the family bought a bigger house since they are going to add new roommates.

Every other aspect of marriage (besides the papers and living together) was already dissolved when they went poly.

So really this is about getting more space in the Pavlina home.

I wonder if Erin will change her name back to her maiden name? Could be bad for business since she has created an "Erin Pavlina" brand.

[Johnny Soporno]

Originally Posted by Steve Pavlina

Yes, I'm totally hot for Johnny.

Hey, Steve... Look... I like you...
It's just, well, like I told Shaq, when he started to get attached...
It's not you, you're great! ...I just prefer a taller man.



Johnny

[Steve Pavlina]

Originally Posted by Johnny Soporno

Hey, Steve... Look... I like you...
It's just, well, like I told Shaq, when he started to get attached...
It's not you, you're great! ...I just prefer a taller man.



Johnny

Sniffle.

[colibri]

It's strange, years ago I started learning from David D about women (it's not just him, it's the other people he interviews) just for curiosity. I don't know how, I developed a sixth sense for knowing when people is going to break the relationship. I just listen to the music of the words, not the words itself. I see them kissing and I feel "not a real kiss", some times people overact trying to hide reality from others and it becomes evident.

Love is not rational, so when people try to rationalize it, bad thing. Smart people have a HUGE problem rationalizing everything, I had it myself. I don't listen to rational arguments about love, just nonsense.

One of the things I learned, men use to get in love(sexual desire, reptile inner mind) with pretty , young faces with a pretty body, women needs are different. As much as you can love someone in the spiritual love, if not pretty, there is a void there, same happens when a women looks at you as a nice person but lacks man strength .

As an spiritual person myself, I can't help but fall in love with pretty women, I don't trick myself, I know is nature trying to make me reproduce for only the needed time for getting what she(nature) wants, same with women(they will get in love as long as needed). Good news is that you can trick nature too if you know how and making it last forever if you want.

Good luck in your journey.

[julien]

I believe Steve did a good job rationalizing what's happening to him; however, I cannot help but wonder whether the ultimate pursuit of "personal growth" didn't eventually estrange him from what should remain the most important in a person's life: his own kin. What deeply shocked me in the way Steve related to this transpires through the quotes below: cant you see ?

"Most likely Erin will get sole custody of the kids, and I’ll be paying some child support. That seems to be the best arrangement for both of us, given our future goals."

"I don’t mind taking on more of a financial burden in this case, not just with the bigger mortgage but with alimony and childcare payments too."

[ballhit2]

Mr Pavlina:

You should take in some temporary homeless lodgers with your three empty bedrooms and teach them hands-on intensive personal growth.

[Dukie]

Wow, I didn't see this coming myself. But I'm happy for the two of you. I wish you guys lots of growth and and an even happier future!

*hugs*

[pjhaggerty]

Originally Posted by julien

...however, I cannot help but wonder whether the ultimate pursuit of "personal growth" didn't eventually estrange him from what should remain the most important in a person's life: his own kin...

who are we to say what should be most important in steve's life?

Good for you steve, I'm happy to see you continuing to pursue your goals and what's most important in your life.

[ellie]

Originally Posted by julien

I believe Steve did a good job rationalizing what's happening to him; however, I cannot help but wonder whether the ultimate pursuit of "personal growth" didn't eventually estrange him from what should remain the most important in a person's life: his own kin. What deeply shocked me in the way Steve related to this transpires through the quotes below: cant you see ?

"Most likely Erin will get sole custody of the kids, and I’ll be paying some child support. That seems to be the best arrangement for both of us, given our future goals."

"I don’t mind taking on more of a financial burden in this case, not just with the bigger mortgage but with alimony and childcare payments too."

Yes that's what concerned me too. It just sounds like Steve, doesn't want to have too much involvement with his kids, of course I could be misinterpreting what has been written, but it does more like a transaction at this stage.
Even though I don't believe in the sanctity of marriage, I do think it's so important for both parents to be actively involved with their children lives. I think it does impact on a child when one parent is not there 100% in spirit or with their love and support.

[aelle]

Originally Posted by ellie

Yes that's what concerned me too. It just sounds like Steve, doesn't want to have too much involvement with his kids, of course I could be misinterpreting what has been written, but it does more like a transaction at this stage.
Even though I don't believe in the sanctity of marriage, I do think it's so important for both parents to be actively involved with their children lives. I think it does impact on a child when one parent is not there 100% in spirit or with their love and support.

You know, I thought I was projecting my own questionning on parenting for a while, but I think there's something there.

Years ago in a round of answering readers questions, Steve said that the big challenges of personal development he still had to tackle were achieving better closeness in intimate relationships and learning to be a better father. He has started dealing with relationships issues, but not the parenting ones.

In a couple of video interviews, when asked about childraising and having more children, you could sense a big discomfort between him and Erin.

He has carefully chosen to stay out of the numerous discussions on this forum regarding parenting and deciding to have children consciously.

And now he's moving away from his children and planning to give up custody.

I am eagerly waiting for the day Steve tackles consciously the issue of having and raising children. I am convinced extremely interesting (and disturbing, and going against societal standards) stuff will come out of it.

[ssandra]

I learned that I really enjoy relationships based on a deep emotional connection, openness, honesty, trust, compatible interests, and having fun together. I definitely want to have more of that in my life. But I found it very awkward to do this within the scope of my marriage. It was like trying to straddle two different worlds. An open marriage is practically a contradiction in terms. I found that I resonated more with the concept of openness than with the concept of marriage.

I just wanted to comment on this part of the blog. For the rest, if 2 people decide that they are happier alone than together, it is better that they are alone.

Marriage is nothing more than a signature on a piece of paper. It does not make you do or feel anything. An open marriage is not a contradiction in terms, because marriage (just as any relationship) is what you make of it.

My marriage we promised eachother to make each other happy where we could, to take care of each other and to love each other. How does that not work with an open marriage? It is all in your own head.

If you find marriage hard to combine with openness towards other people because of social conventions... maybe you should be working on courage (you in a general sense, not you Steve).

My opinion on marriage... it is nothing except what you make of it.

[bright]

Originally Posted by aelle

You know, I thought I was projecting my own questionning on parenting for a while, but I think there's something there.

Years ago in a round of answering readers questions, Steve said that the big challenges of personal development he still had to tackle were achieving better closeness in intimate relationships and learning to be a better father. He has started dealing with relationships issues, but not the parenting ones.

In a couple of video interviews, when asked about childraising and having more children, you could sense a big discomfort between him and Erin.

He has carefully chosen to stay out of the numerous discussions on this forum regarding parenting and deciding to have children consciously.

And now he's moving away from his children and planning to give up custody.

I am eagerly waiting for the day Steve tackles consciously the issue of having and raising children. I am convinced extremely interesting (and disturbing, and going against societal standards) stuff will come out of it.

There's nothing wrong with it if he doesn't want / like kids. He's free to do whatever makes him happy and he should do only what makes him happy.

[Glass Joe]

Originally Posted by yossarian

4300 square feet and 6 bedrooms... If they share bunks Steve could easily fit 20 concubines in this harem

Just don't forget the eunuch bodyguards!

And don't invite Tyler Durden to sleep in the closet!

When I first read that, I immediately thought of the original Tyler Durden from the movie "Fight Club".

Just think if Steve did go the Fight Club route and turned his house into a "Project Mayhem", but instead for personal development. Living in military-style bunks at Steve's house would be so intense!

There could even be an organic garden set up in the backyard, where all of Steve's live-in minions would do all the chores. And Steve could walk around in a pink bathrobe, yelling through his megaphone "You are not a unique snowflake! You are the all-singing, all-dancing, crap of the world..."

Originally Posted by aelle

You know, I thought I was projecting my own questionning on parenting for a while, but I think there's something there.

I agree with what other people have posted regarding the kids. I was thinking the same thing too. Actually, I could sense more of a disconnect early-on between him and his kids much more so than between him and Erin. (Of course, since I only know Steve through his blog, I could be totally and 100% wrong here.)

But if Steve truly doesn't feel a strong fatherly connection with his kids, I'm not sure what's worse in the long run: (a) pretending to connect with your kids when you don't really mean it, or (b) taking on a less-involved role with your kids and simply being honest about it.

Looking back, when I was a kid, although it was nice being given attention rather than being totally ignored, it felt weird when relatives tried to fit our relationships into these stereotypical family roles too much. Such as giving me abstract advice when I didn't ask for it, or asking me about stuff like grades when they obviously didn't really care, for example. The free money in greeting cards was not too bad though.

Maybe Steve can still have a loving relationship with his kids, but he shouldn't have to go about it in a way that feels incongruent or forced. Some of my favorite relatives are uncles who don't really act like uncles at all but behave more like cousins to me.

[aelle]

Originally Posted by bright

There's nothing wrong with it if he doesn't want / like kids. He's free to do whatever makes him happy and he should do only what makes him happy.

Absolutely, and I never said otherwise. I just pointed out that it's an uncomfortable constatation to make when you already have kids, and still think Steve would have a lot to bring on the topic from a PD perspective.

[marinik]

This is Erin's status on Facebook posted yesterday:

Erin Pavlina When you're in the dark, stop looking at where the light used to be. A new light source will almost always be close by, if you look for it.

I'm just wondering how mutual and how consensual this decisions was. I have to say that my feeling is that it was harder, much harder for Erin.

I have gone through a divorce 24 years ago and it was my decisions so I am not talking from the standpoint of a women left by her husband.

A women that is content with what is going on does not talk about the dark. But this is only my two cents.

I would love to hear from her honestly. Although it is her private thing to keep it all to herself. It is a bit all too public for my taste anyway.

Time is a fantastic cure. Hold on Erin the light is going to shine on your beautiful sole.

Love m

[pras]

I just now finished reading 'the celestine prophecy'. Wanted to share it here--> stumbled on your new post-->>slightly surprised--> making this post!You both are highly conscious people!

I believe a person who is as conscious as you would'nt do anything that hinders your (erin, your children) happiness.

Wish you all the very Best in your path, steve!

p.s :
I recommend you read the book ' the celestine prophecy' if you have'nt read it! I have a hunch you would have read it already!. Mainly the part which gave a-ha moments were those involving how humans should raise children....
quote from the book " we should view them as they really are, as end points in evolution that lead us forward. But in order to learn to evolve they need our energy on a constant Basis, unconditionally. "...

[Gene]

Originally Posted by Steve Pavlina

Yes, I'm totally hot for Johnny.

Now that would make an interesting blog article!

Congratulations for following your bliss.

I was married for fifteen years and decided living with someone as a brother/sister whom I still definitely loved, was mind and body numbing and was literally killing me.

We decided to be best friends and in this small Midwest community our friends, family and the community was mostly unable to understand we really were still friends. Making the decision to leave the marriage was really a release, even though I did experience sadness as we worked through our transition from couple to not a couple.

I believe in you both and in your ability to live consciously and to continue to grow.

[JoeRad]

Whats even more messed up than all this...is my reaction to it. While I have a bit of a cop-out (some wine does wonders for inhibitions) my reactions to this, for some reasons went through rage. I mean, come on, I hardly even know Steve & Erin. Quite interesting how adults can still be immature given the circumstances.

I at least learned something about myself in all this.

[Miia]

Most likely Erin will get sole custody of the kids, and I’ll be paying some child support.

I don`t want to be insensitive and hurt anyone`s feelings but Steve, your kids need you as much as they need Erin. This is coming from someone who`s parents divorced when she was 9 and whose dad only showed up on birthdays. I remember playing with my Ken and a baby doll all the time, going through all the situations that I would have liked to go through in the real world with my father...this went on until I was 14


Just my two cents....

Wish you all the best!

[Andrew Brunelle]

Wow, this is surprising. I really didn't see this coming. But I totally understand why. Well, I hope this all works out for you and your family. It may be tough on the kids for awhile, but as you said in your article, they know plenty of other kids whose parents are divorced and understand that it is actually more common than a long-standing marriage. Best of luck to you and best of luck to Erin and your children.

[James81]

Wow, didn't see this coming at all. Damn. Sorry to hear about it. While your article didn't really show any of the emotion that must be feeling right now, I know it has to hurt and how rough it can be because I've been there. Even in the most amicable of situations, it's not easy at all.

When I first started my blog, I wrote a whole series of posts on facing divorce/lost love. Hopefully there is something in there that might be helpful/encouraging for you during this time. Here's the posts:

Lost Love Part 1: Facing the Loss | Soul's Asylum

Lost Love Part 2: Finding yourself again | Soul's Asylum

Lost Love Part 3: All the little pieces… | Soul's Asylum

Lost Love Part 4: The Foundation | Soul's Asylum

Lost Love Part 5: Shrugged | Soul's Asylum

Lost Love Part 6: Conclusions | Soul's Asylum

[JoeRad]

Originally Posted by James81

Wow, didn't see this coming at all.

See, I think one of the things that pissed me off is that I saw if coming a while ago, but I convinced myself it was entirely the result of my own insecurities about relationships. I then started to idolize these two, seeing them as the epitome of conscious relationships. Then my original thoughts turned out to be true...not good.

Thus going back to my original belief that now seems reinforced by reality: relationships are a false construct, a mere temporary flirtation.

Sobering, isn't it?

[JustBe]

I wonder if it is possible to downgrade a relationship and not grow out of each other.

Going from marriage to open relationship is a downgrade (for her).

[Bliss Sage]

Originally Posted by bright

There's nothing wrong with it if he doesn't want / like kids. He's free to do whatever makes him happy and he should do only what makes him happy.

I'm sorry, this is bullsh*t. If he didn't want kids, he should have thought of that before he had them! Isn't there enough people in the world farting out babies like so much excrement and then abandoning them or torturing them with their own insanity??

There is so much wrong with having kids and then deciding it was a mistake and going off to put your own happiness first!! Having kids is the biggest responsibility in the world!! Forget marriage! Raising kids is far more important! These are human beings!! You don't say, after making human beings "Well, there's nothing wrong if Steve doesn't want or like his kids. He's free to do whatever will make him happy." These are human beings who did not ask you to bring them into the world! You wittingly, and with full knowledge of what you were doing, brought them into the world yourself, by your own free will. You have the biggest obligation ever to them! Sorry, you are not free from your kids!!

Is there no limit to the self-consuming narcissism that has infiltrated PD?? I would have thought, at least, where children are concerned, this "your-happiness-is-all-that-matters" attitude would not have permeated.

[Remiel]

Well, looks like the time for me to "Separate" from this blog has come as well. As you put it, my goals and future direction no longer line up with yours. I didn't particularly like the polyamory choice but thought that I might still be able to glean some value from your posts, and I did. But now? How am I supposed to respect you when you've practically abandoned your kids? Sorry but... I guess it is time for me to say goodbye. Thanks for all the "Aha's" you've given me. I appreciate your openness and honesty, I just don't resonate with your values anymore.


Once again I thank you for all the quantum leaps you've helped me achieve through your blog.
Remiel

[spirit4711]

It surprises me that so many people are shocked by Steve's and Erin's decision. Why would deciding for divorce be more shocking than continuing a relationship?

Steve, you wrote that it would be best for the kids to grow up in a single location. I don't agree with that myself. I've seen lots of co-parenting situations that work pretty well. As long as you live close together and the kids can go to the same school I think they would adapt pretty quickly to e.g a weekly change of house. But of course it's Erin's and your call.