Separation (Blog)

[Angela]

Originally Posted by SomeRandomGuy

I don't think that posting from a phone is necessarily bad if you take the time and put forth the effort to use correct spelling, grammar, and formatting.

Yes -- and know that you don't have to, if you don't want to. You can keep posting using that texting style. There's no law that you have to accept feedback or implement suggestions. Personally, I will be skipping your posts if you continue to post like that, because I'll interpret it to mean that you can't be bothered (or don't have the ability) to communicate with me effectively, but that doesn't mean anything about you.

(I'm talking to The light, by the way, not you, SomeRandomGuy! )

[seeker5]

Guys, this thread is about the separation blog post for Steve and Erin. If you guys want to argue religious stuff, there's a whole forum for that called spirituality.

[Cado]

Originally Posted by seeker5

Guys, this thread is about the separation blog post for Steve and Erin. If you guys want to argue religious stuff, there's a whole forum for that called spirituality.

Duly noted. I'll go ahead and remove my entry.

[feedtherightwolf]

Originally Posted by yossarian

just how horny are you that it would be sacrificing your happiness to create a "stable" home? Since when is "stable" a euphemism for suffering?

To me, creating a stable home where many people can be secure and comfortable is practically the meaning of life. I guess I must be lower on Maslow's pyramid or something. Or perhaps I just don't need regular sex with tight young bodies to feel good. I wonder if sex can become addictive like heroin, making people give up all the other good things in life for just one more hit?

I always tend to come back to the simple pleasures. Having toast with jam. Sitting on the porch. Playing with the dog. The classics I guess. All this poly stuff and need for sex with 22-28 year olds just seems like a bunch of hype for neurotic people.

I think you are 100% right and you are my hero! I also think that true happiness does not come from chasing your penis for the rest of your life. No mater how hard you try it will always be 3-4 inches ahead of you Wow I really like this saying I think I will make it my personal moto from now on...

[Savage]

Originally Posted by feedtherightwolf

I also think that true happiness does not come from chasing your penis for the rest of your life. No mater how hard you try it will always be 3-4 inches ahead of you

3-4 inches? Hmmm... I guess I can understand your stance in that case.

They tend to work better when they're feeling inspired.

[James81]

Originally Posted by Steve Pavlina

3-4 inches? Hmmm... I guess I can understand your stance in that case.

They tend to work better when they're feeling inspired.

I just spit my drink on my computer. lol

If you're going to use that saying, I'd beef it up to a "good 18-24 inches ahead of you" just for sheer shock and awe value.

[Gene]

Originally Posted by James81

I just spit my drink on my computer. lol

If you're going to use that saying, I'd beef it up to a "good 18-24 inches ahead of you" just for sheer shock and awe value.

It entered the room a full minute before the rest of his body was visible!

[danijelg]

What a great thread!
It made me think deep and laugh hard

I am about to get married and naturally Steve's post had struck me like a lightning bolt. I've projected his experience onto my situation and instantly my consciousness got elevated - touché my friend Steve! I've realized that even though marriage can be a bad thing in so many ways, and it can most certainly end with divorce, this is still something that I really want to do at this stage of my life.

As for the laughing part, a mix of religious flames and penis measurement is sure to amuse me anytime

Anyhow, Steve and Erin - you both are an inspiration to so many of us and I wish nothing but the best for you.

[Cado]

Originally Posted by danijelg

As for the laughing part, a mix of religious flames and penis measurement is sure to amuse me anytime

It's funny, usually penises and fire don't mix.

[supertom]

Steve DP is so funny esp with the unshaven look, goes well with the "divorce" topic

[James81]

Originally Posted by supertom

Steve DP is so funny esp with the unshaven look, goes well with the "divorce" topic

Heh, I hope the rugged, three-day-old beard spills over into his writing and we get to see a more rugged side to personal development.

[HappyLuckyOne]

Originally Posted by Steve Pavlina

As far as marriage is concerned, I've only experienced one, so I only have that experience to go on. However, I wouldn't be too eager to get married again because it felt like marriage as a legal and social instrument often got in the way of building a truly conscious relationship.

Living consciously requires choice, and choice requires freedom. The institution of marriage restricts freedom a bit (partly legally and partly due to social convention), making free choices more difficult by introducing extra consequences.

But beyond the marriage issues, Erin and I also had compatibility problems that arose from living together. Some of those were present even before we got married (we lived together almost 4 years before we got married). So that's really a separate issue from the marriage itself. Otherwise we could have ended the marriage but continued living together.

Ha, if you are conscious enough, then you shouldn't be affected by the "social convention" that marriage restricts freedom! If you have such feeling, you are not that conscious after all!

[Parthon]

Originally Posted by HappyLuckyOne

Ha, if you are conscious enough, then you shouldn't be affected by the "social convention" that marriage restricts freedom! If you have such feeling, you are not that conscious after all!

I think you misunderstand what a social convention is.

It's the agreement that Steve and Erin made that restricted their freedoms. They made a vow to each other, and it was that vow that was in the way. The only logical step was to end the vow, and end the marriage.

We as people live in society, and it has certain social conventions which results in people reacting in certain ways. If Steve was talking intimately with a woman and said that he was married, the usual reaction would be the woman completely shutting down and wanting to escape. That is a social convention.

We all live in society, and society comes with it's own patterns and rules. To ignore that would be to turn away from the truth. To futhur our own goals, we have to learn how to use society's conventions in pursuit of our best purpose.

Steve is conscious enough to realise this and take the best action. It's a conscious step to acknowledge reality as it is and act accordingly. It's an unconscious step to ignore what's real and pretend it doesn't exist.

Marriage itself is a social and legal construct which doesn't help anyone form deeper and more intimate connections. It's build apon the need for security in a world of fear. When you don't have fear, there's no need to try and own another person through marriage. Marriage is the agreement that two people own each other. What conscious individual could live inside that construct?

[Savage]

Originally Posted by HappyLuckyOne

Ha, if you are conscious enough, then you shouldn't be affected by the "social convention" that marriage restricts freedom! If you have such feeling, you are not that conscious after all!

I have to call B.S. on that idea. I've seen some highly conscious people go to great lengths to pretend that they can transcend their environment, and it's not pretty to watch. I've never met anyone who has truly succeeded at it. Beneath the surface, the people who claim they can do this are so fake that it's nauseating to watch them make such claims.

In my book I explain in chapters 2 and 4 just how significant the "social soup" that surrounds us is. It has a major effect on us. A conscious living approach doesn't attempt to transcend it -- that only leads to denial and escapism. I offer a more practical solution in my book, one that actually works in the real world.

We do have the power to make changes to our social environment, but it's pure folly to thing we can remain immune to social pressures.

[supertom]

Originally Posted by Steve Pavlina

I have to call B.S. on that idea. I've seen some highly conscious people go to great lengths to pretend that they can transcend their environment, and it's not pretty to watch. I've never met anyone who has truly succeeded at it. Beneath the surface, the people who claim they can do this are so fake that it's nauseating to watch them make such claims.

In my book I explain in chapters 2 and 4 just how significant the "social soup" that surrounds us is. It has a major effect on us. A conscious living approach doesn't attempt to transcend it -- that only leads to denial and escapism. I offer a more practical solution in my book, one that actually works in the real world.

We do have the power to make changes to our social environment, but it's pure folly to thing we can remain immune to social pressures.

hes written about creating your environment before, bits and pieces, but not a article dedicated to it how one would go about.

[Angela]

Originally Posted by Steve Pavlina

I have to call B.S. on that idea. I've seen some highly conscious people go to great lengths to pretend that they can transcend their environment, and it's not pretty to watch. I've never met anyone who has truly succeeded at it. Beneath the surface, the people who claim they can do this are so fake that it's nauseating to watch them make such claims.

I know a couple of couples who have transcended the environment of marriage -- that is, they have generated a marriage without feeling constricted by traditional social convention. I don't think they've ever explicitly claimed that they have "transcended their environment" -- rather, they just go ahead and don't be limited in their freedom and full self-expression by the tradition of their socially conventional marriages.

One thing I admire about these particular marriages is that the people in them are not habitually seen as joined at the hip, as happens a lot in my experience of married couples. But at the same time, they seem to consider themselves to be in a strong, synergistic partnership -- each considering the well-being of that entity as well as the well-being of each of the individuals. At different times, the priority may fluctuate. But there's a lightworker approach to the whole shebang.

It's not fake or nauseating all all to see how bold, free, expressive, and joyful they are -- it's actually quite pretty.

[Savage]

Originally Posted by supertom

hes written about creating your environment before, bits and pieces, but not a article dedicated to it how one would go about.

I've written a lot on this topic. Some can be found in my book. I also talk about it at CGW. And here's an article to get you started:
Environmental Reinforcement of Your Goals

[Angela]

It's certainly very helpful to generate an environment that supports one's desired conscious desires, but I don't think it's b*llshit to suggest that a highly conscious person might live in accordance with his values and get the results he wants, regardless of the pressures of social convention.

[supertom]

Originally Posted by Steve Pavlina

I've written a lot on this topic. Some can be found in my book. I also talk about it at CGW. And here's an article to get you started:
Environmental Reinforcement of Your Goals

thanks, I was actually reading the chapter in your book at the time, i'll have to get your CGW on dvd thou.

[Betrade]

The whole idea of marriage being "man made' or a "social" convention or construct" is obvious, but not necessarily a bad thing; and in some cases; not necessarily good, depending on who's involved and under what circumstances.

We all live by "man made" rules, laws, etc. Science is a man made collection of data gathered and studied over long periods of time, our government and their constitutions are man made, our tax codes, our codes of social conduct, justice/law and order/court systems, penal systems, trade unions, workers unions, educational systems, science, philosophy,religion etc. Even the proper use of language is man made and follows man made rules.

The list of man made constructs is gigantic and we're all affected by them unless we're complete hermits with no exposure to outside human influences of any kind. The fact that we're humans obviously leads, or even compels us to live by human made social structures and constructs. This is so basic we generally realize this by the age of 3 or 4 when we understand that we don't get our own way when we want it every time and that authority does exist.

To dismiss something as somehow "bad" because it's a man made construct is kinda' ridiculous IMO; and I'm a genuine non conformist; but I also understand that I must frequently operate within the confines of the systems I live under in many cases whether I like it or not. I don't show up for a wedding in a Tee Shirt and shorts; I wear a jacket and tie because that's what's socially accepted and expected at a function like that and it's a matter of respect; not to mention I may not even be allowed in if I refuse to follow the dress code. This is very basic stuff.

For instance; I'm not going to jail because I don't agree with the tax code and refuse to pay. It's just not worth it to me. That could change at some point but until it does, I'll continue to pay the piper; yet still create the maximum deductions possible.

As far as marriage being man made is concerned, it's not hard to see why it was constructed if we just take a little look at history. Marriage, more often than not; creates a better environment for the creation, raising and educating of children than most of the alternatives, or at least; it has for a very long time throughout human history and it generally benefited all parties in one way or another, as well as society in general. Fatherless children tend to get involved in gangs, crime, etc. in higher numbers than those who have a strong responsible father figure to guide and teach them and a mother to nurture them.

That's not to say that there aren't many horrible parents who don't even care about their own kids, but most do and most do the best they can to care for them. I don't see that as a bad thing personally, nor do I consider something inherently negative because it's "man made". there's a bigger picture to consider that goes way beyond individual "happiness", which is different for everyone. One person's happiness can be another's misery and vice versa.

[JuleeQ]

I admittedly have not read all nine million pages of this thread. But I did read many of them. And I am surprised at the defense and flagellation of the idea of marriage. Marriage is nothing in itself. I know some vey happily married, long time couples who I truly doubt will ever not continue to be married to each other. They are able to use the vehicle of marriage to produce a fulfilling relationship. I know happily married people on a marriage that is not a first marriage. I know happily non-married people. You get it.

We are what we are. We can't be held to a standard that is unobtainable for US. A lot of people who have experienced divorce did not want the divorce but couldn't find or create enough value in the relationship. People really are what they are and can't be 'tweaked' to fit someone else's desire, or a moral code, or what have you.

Sometimes we can change and grow in a relationship. All relationships require that on an almost daily basis. But sometimes we change (I hope to gosh we are constantly continuing to change!) and we can do longer accomodate the continuation of the relationship. To have someone in your face saying, You MUST do this or that, doesn't change the reality of it taint gonna happen!

I will not accept a situation where I must stay in less than perfect circumstances for the sake of someone else's rule, law, demand, or feeling-that-it's-right-and-the-world-will-end-if-people-don't-do-it.

People can be very afraid they are unable to produce stabilty or happiness in their lives from inside and rely on outside walls to hold them together.

There is always a striving for balance between living conciously and being a jerk. People have been jerks about relationships, following selfishness instead of love. But that doesn't mean love can't be supreme and work even in divorced with kids situations. I have been divorced. Actually, I'm kind of practiced at it. My children are constantly held up as examples of well-adjusted children. And that's with them having endured a number of different living situations: living with a single stay-at-home mom, a single working mom, a remarried mom, a mom living with her boyfriend, and time over at dad's with him being single, then remarried.

There really aren't any right or wrong, or specific rules on how to do it 'right'. It isn't marriage or anti-marriage. It really is what you make it.