Separation (Blog)

[airplus]

Originally Posted by Aybee

Yes, of course people want to know, but why, other than pure nosiness? And what would Steve get from answering that, other than other people who don't know him picking apart their choices for visitation?

Nothing about nosiness I can assure you.

It is more because, as Steve very clearly has taught me, good intentions are nothing until reflected in real, measurable results.

So if he is indeed still being an involved father, I would logically expect some agreed, stable, predictable visitation arrangements already set up.

I would be happy if he just said "chill out Airplus, I have set up a visitation schedule already, I am keeping the details private but they will still be seeing lots of me".

However if you read all his answers, there is no mention whatsoever of anything like that.

Now you could say to me "so what if he is fizzling away from his kids’ lives? Surely that's not your problem, it is? And is that a problem anyway?"

Guys that drift out of their kids’ lives are difficult for me to respect. Dads matters. Already yossarian wrote about the devastation to the kids if dads are not involved.

Now you could tell me “ok, so what, just don’t take parenting advice from Steve and you’ll be fine”

Well, that’s what I tried to do yesterday. I started with the Abundance post and saw that now we have videos. Then I saw Steve there and I could not stand watching him. It was painful, so unbearable! And I am a long term reader, I read him regularly since the times of polyphonic sleep!!! I am surprised to feel that way.

So I quickly scrolled down, just to go away from him, looked at the Mac post, not a Mac fan, so I went to the previous entry about juicing and exercise, love that topic, I start reading and guess what… I could not keep on reading.

I think the reason is that I can’t accept advice from a guy that is not actively interested in his kids.

And that is a problem for me because I love Steve’s blog!!

I think if I force myself to read them I may eventually tolerate reading the posts, however they won’t be as useful as not all my internal parts will agree to take the message when it comes from a source I have conflicting feelings about.

I really want to believe I am wrong; however I have not found any evidence he still wants to be an involved dad.

Apologies for the long post.

[joyfulgrowth]

Originally Posted by airplus

I think the reason is that I can’t accept advice from a guy that is not actively interested in his kids.

You mean "from a guy that has chosen to, at this time, not publicly share what he has agreed on with his wife and kids regarding how often he will spend time with the kids"?

[airplus]

Originally Posted by joyfulgrowth

You mean "from a guy that has chosen to, at this time, not publicly share what he has agreed on with his wife and kids regarding how often he will spend time with the kids"?

No, I don't mean that.

I think I explain my predicament pretty well:

Originally Posted by airplus

I would be happy if he just said "chill out Airplus, I have set up a visitation schedule already, I am keeping the details private but they will still be seeing lots of me".

Is that asking too much?
Please if you have any quote from Steve anywhere about this issue, could you please provide me with it?
Thanks.

[Parthon]

airplus: Before the separation you saw Steve one way. Then you read about the separation, and now you see Steve in a different way. Steve is just the object in this event, a passive instrument, nothing more than an inactive tool. Everything that's going on for you in regards to how you act according to Steve is your doing. It's all under your control.

So why are you letting yourself get cut off? What do you believe in that distances you from Steve?

You say "I can’t accept advice from a guy that is not actively interested in his kids." Why?

I doubt you would feel this way if Steve had made the same post, but he didn't have kids. You'd more readily accept advice from someone who has never had kids, than from someone who has but has separated from his wife.

But just as a last comment, from Steve:

Children

Our kids (ages 6 and 9) are handling this transition pretty well. Las Vegas is a place where divorce is pretty common, so our kids have friends that have seen their parents get divorced. Emily was a bit concerned about it at first, but she’s gradually adjusting to it. Kyle is young enough that he sees this transition as more of an adventure. They’ll continue going to the same school (at least for the rest of the year), and they’re living in a home that’s still familiar to them, so the changes aren’t as dramatic as they might otherwise be.

Most likely Erin will get sole custody of the kids, and I’ll be paying some child support. That seems to be the best arrangement for both of us, given our future goals. Neither of us wants to subject the kids to a shared custody arrangement where they live part-time in two different homes. We think it’s much better for them to live in a single stable home.

Steve is doing what he believes is best for the kids. While there's no shared custody, Steve is paying child support and because He and Erin are still best friends, I bet he sees the children all the time.

Just because they are living in different houses doesn't mean Steve isn't an active parent. I would say he goes over Erin's house several times a week at least.

Edit: If you are the one having a problem, why is it Steve's job to make you feel okay? Isn't it yours?

[James81]

airplus,

I originally had the same thoughts as you about the subject of the kids.

But then I realized something. Steve has consistently talked about maintaining friendship with Erin, and apparently based on a few loose comments here and there, I gather they still talk frequently. He has also mentioned that they are shedding the marriage itself, but the intent is to remain good friends.

So, I put two and two together and realized that if he is taking strides to maintain the friendship with HER, it only stands to reason that the same strides are taken to maintain the relationship with his kids. I mean, I can't imagine him being like "Oh, well I'll be friends with Erin, but damn the kids. I'm going to ignore them completely."

I mean, most men, I think, drift out of their kids lives mainly because they can't handle the constant contact with their ex. I would wager that that is the biggest reason fathers don't see their kids (being divorced myself, I can definately see WHY they do this, even if I disagree with the action itself).

But he, apparently, has no qualms with remaining in contact with her, so the logical conclusion is that since he maintains his relationship with her, he's also maintaining a relationship with his kids.

[JSB]

Originally Posted by airplus

No, I don't mean that.

I think I explain my predicament pretty well:


Is that asking too much?
Please if you have any quote from Steve anywhere about this issue, could you please provide me with it?
Thanks.

I'm not saying this to stand up Steve, but just to point out something.

Do you realize that your position puts Steve in the role of having to justify himself and his behavior to you (and others)? Maybe that's a role he doesn't choose to play, even if he happens to be seeing his kids every day.

There's nothing wrong with you wanting to know more about this, but there's also nothing wrong with him choosing not to make the information public.

[joyfulgrowth]

Originally Posted by airplus

Is that asking too much?

I get that having a clear statement from Steve would really contribute to you finding some ease around this, and being able to continously enjoy the learning you get from his work.

I am worried that you might hold it as a slight demand and not as a request to which he would be free to say no.

And from Steve perspective, having the sense that his readers think they are entitled to have this information probably doesn't make it any more fun to share, given that it's tricky anyway - I don't know if I would want my kids to be able to read the whole world discussing their parents' divorce and the visitation agreement online...

[Steve Pavlina]

Originally Posted by joyfulgrowth

I don't know if I would want my kids to be able to read the whole world discussing their parents' divorce and the visitation agreement online...

Yeah... it gets a bit creepy to be judged and given unsolicited advice about such things over the Internet. I've pretty much had my fill of bad unsolicited advice to last me till I'm 50, and I'm already halfway through filling up my next life in terms of judgment received.

I talk freely about this part of my life with close friends who know me well, but posting about it online creates extra drama and really doesn't help. Suffice it to say there are lots of details yet to be worked out, there are many changes still happening in our lives, and it's premature to lock everything down all at once.

It's actually simpler and easier for me if people just assume I'm planning to be a deadbeat dad or something along those lines, post their condemnation based on that assumption, and move on to the next thing that feeds their drama addiction. That way I don't need to be involved since that's a script people can run sans assistance.

To accurately tell the whole story of what's really going on in our lives at this point would require writing at least one new book every two weeks. Maybe sometime next year I'll be able to share some of those truths publicly when I have a more distanced perspective on it, but for now it's enough of a challenge just to keep up with it myself.

[Daffy Duck]

Originally Posted by airplus

I really want to believe I am wrong; however I have not found any evidence he still wants to be an involved dad.

Considering the strong amount of evidence that he has always been a great dad, there is no logical reason to assume otherwise.

Originally Posted by airplus

Is that asking too much?

I haven't seen any evidence that you didn't rob a bank back in 1990. Can you provide some evidence? Is that asking too much?

If anything, Steve has told us too much. It's none of our business.

Godspeed to the whole Pavlina family. I think they're having less emotional turmoil over this than some of their readers, geez!

[airplus]

Originally Posted by Steve Pavlina

Suffice it to say there are lots of details yet to be worked out, there are many changes still happening in our lives, and it's premature to lock everything down all at once.

Thanks very much Steve, I wish the best for you, for Erin and your kids.

[drakecatz]

Originally Posted by Steve Pavlina

I can cope with heartbreak. It can be a good catalyst for growth.

Wow! Heartbreak can destroy a person. In my experience it is the deepest pain possible.

I think divorce can be difficult, but as one poster said in some forum recently, "there are some people who jump up and down and shout with joy when the divorce is final!"

Depends on where your're at, what has happened, and how you feel for the person. Not all divorce's are painful. I was sooo happy when mine was final, and that feeling hasn't changed in 3 years.

This seems to be a sad and life changing divorce. Not a heartbreaking one.

Most posting here get the vibe that Erin was more committed to the relationship. And we haven't heard otherwise. That's not a judgment, it's an observation.

And anyone who has gone to transformational personal growth workshops knows there are always the groupies in the crowd just longing to pounce the speaker....

[Steve Pavlina]

Originally Posted by drakecatz

And anyone who has gone to transformational personal growth workshops knows there are always the groupies in the crowd just longing to pounce the speaker....

Sometimes I really love my work.

[joyfulgrowth]

I'm not a native speaker, and everything I find in the dictionary doesn't seem to fit.
Would anybody let me know what "to pounce" means in this context?

Thanks!

[drakecatz]

Hee... It's slang, like "He really wanted to jump her bones." It means that there are "groupie's" that want to have sex with the person in power. So, for example, while Steve is speaking about personal growth, there are women, (or men,) in the audience thinking of ways to get him into bed.

Hope that clears it up for you.

[joyfulgrowth]

Thx! (That was my first thought, it just looked very different from what I found when I looked it up)

[supertom]

This separation will make Steve's relationship with Erin and his kids even deeper and more dynamic. Blessings

Do you guys think the reason they weren't able to sell the house is because of this separation happening??

[Erin Pavlina]

I remember tuning in to our house a couple of years ago and asking the guides if we would sell it or just rent it and they said neither. I was like, "What the heck does that mean?" I didn't see us selling it or renting it. What else is there to do with it? Keep it vacant? Then we gave the house for a short time to a family who was facing homelessness, so they lived here for a while before getting back on their feet and moving. In that case we didnt' sell or rent it as they weren't paying rent.

Then it was vacant again for like 9 months. Now I''m living in it. So I think that's why I didn't see us renting or selling it. I was pretty weirded out at the time because I couldn't fathom another use for it. We discussed making it a Personal Growth house but never got around to it.

[The light]

Ive being following the 2 of You for almost 2 years, Ive mixed my cristianity with ur wisdom and both of Your teachings and your experiences and i must say Im a higer human now, and i feel like if the 2 of you were open to cristianity.. you'd be far much more than u are right now .with all due respect,I feel like the 2 of you separating isnt right, even if you didnt say until death due us apart, you no the real perpouse of marriege is to be Together forever, thats what God created it For. If thats not the case why did you marry?

[Steve Pavlina]

Originally Posted by The light

Ive being following the 2 of You for almost 2 years, Ive mixed my cristianity with ur wisdom and both of Your teachings and your experiences and i must say Im a higer human now, and i feel like if the 2 of you were open to cristianity.. you'd be far much more than u are right now .with all due respect,I feel like the 2 of you separating isnt right, even if you didnt say until death due us apart, you no the real perpouse of marriege is to be Together forever, thats what God created it For. If thats not the case why did you marry?

The purpose of our marriage wasn't to be together forever. That would have been a delusion since all human relationships end in separation or death.

The purpose of our marriage was to learn, grow, and to be happier within the marriage. Once it became clear that we'd both experience more learning, growth, and happiness w/o the marriage, it was time to let it go. It's clear to both of us (and to many of our friends) that this was the best decision.

It's safe to say that God would have done the same thing in our situation, and in truth he did so by creating us in his image and giving us the free will to express that image. Personally I think he's quite pleased with us right now.

[Cantando]

Steve, you said:

But an even deeper causal factor beneath that was my commitment to conscious growth. The desire to relate to other people as consciously as possible eventually made it impossible to continue giving my power away to an external structure like a marriage. That was a problem for both of us. For years we fell into the trap of treating the marriage as something more powerful than ourselves, something we must preserve at all costs even when it didn’t make us happy to do so. I’m glad we finally saw the folly in that mindset.

Did you not see marriage as an internal commitment between both of you rather than just as an external structure?

This is a bit delicate, so tell me to take a hike if need be, but what do you think about Erin's involvement with the occult?

Do you think her talking to spirit guides may have widened the gap between your two paths to such an extent that your marriage was no longer real?

You strike me as a practical, down to earth guy who wouldn't have much time for such things. Or, did you share her occult interests?

[bunnyman]

Originally Posted by Cantando

Did you not see marriage as an internal commitment between both of you rather than just as an external structure?

An "internal" commitment might take the form of "I promise to ..." where that blank might be different things for different people. When you call it a "marriage," then people outside the marriage have their own ideas about what a marriage should be. That is what makes it external.

What if two people agree to do all the things that a marriage usually implies, but they just never call it that? They live together, raise a family, love each other, make a commitment... but they still file taxes separately. Would you look down on them for that? No diamond ring means the relationship is not serious?

Originally Posted by Cantando

You strike me as a practical, down to earth guy who wouldn't have much time for such things. Or, did you share her occult interests?

I think it is fair to say he has taken interest in the supernatural. He has written about it a fair bit.

[Steve Pavlina]

Originally Posted by Cantando

Did you not see marriage as an internal commitment between both of you rather than just as an external structure?

This is a bit delicate, so tell me to take a hike if need be, but what do you think about Erin's involvement with the occult?

Do you think her talking to spirit guides may have widened the gap between your two paths to such an extent that your marriage was no longer real?

You strike me as a practical, down to earth guy who wouldn't have much time for such things. Or, did you share her occult interests?

Marriage is a legal institution (external). The internal commitment is a conscious choice to help each other grow, and that commitment still stands. But I wouldn't call that a marriage because marriage is the wrong word to describe it. Spiritual alliance might be a better term.

IMO the word "occult" is an outsider's term often used by people who are trying to label something they haven't experienced. But if you're asking if our separation had to do with spiritual differences, then that's an easy no, not even close. We're extremely compatible in that area.

[James81]

You know, an interesting observation just occured to me about this.

The responses have been kinda spotty in this thread...some people support the decision, and others criticize.

The interesting thing I noticed is that of all the criticism in this thread, none of it has been pointed toward Erin. It's all been placed on Steve. Not that I personally think Erin deserves criticism, I'm just saying that it's interesting that all of the lashing out has been mainly focused toward Steve.

Makes me kinda curious as to how Steve has received most of the brunt of the criticism.

[James81]

And in other news, isn't it absolutely marvelous that we can all come here and pick apart Steve and Erin's relationship like it was some kinda candy in a dish somewhere? lol

[Cantando]

Originally Posted by Steve Pavlina

Marriage is a legal institution (external). The internal commitment is a conscious choice to help each other grow, and that commitment still stands. But I wouldn't call that a marriage because marriage is the wrong word to describe it. Spiritual alliance might be a better term.

IMO the word "occult" is an outsider's term often used by people who are trying to label something they haven't experienced. But if you're asking if our separation had to do with spiritual differences, then that's an easy no, not even close. We're extremely compatible in that area.

Ah, right - it was an external, civil marriage.

I'm not sure what you mean about helping someone to grow - mentally, emotionally, spiritually, financially, or all of the above? It doesn't quite gel with me, somehow, that you might want to marry someone in order to help them grow (grow from what into what?). Why do you have to marry them to do that?

If you are both extremely compatible, spiritually, then surely that takes precedence over compatibility in other areas (culture, education, religion, personality, sexuality, etc).

[Cantando]

Originally Posted by James81

And in other news, isn't it absolutely marvelous that we can all come here and pick apart Steve and Erin's relationship like it was some kinda candy in a dish somewhere? lol

Sorry, but that's what you get if you publish your personal life for all the world to read about and then invite comments about it.

I think Steve is big enough to take any flak from the likes of me, don't you think?
He's got a big pair of shoulders as far as I can tell.

[Cantando]

Originally Posted by bunnyman

I think it is fair to say he has taken interest in the supernatural. He has written about it a fair bit.

Where, exactly?

[openeyes]

Originally Posted by Cantando

Where, exactly?

Here's one from a few years ago:

Ask Steve – Psychic Development

"I prefer not to push too forcefully into psychic development when most of my readers are still working hard on their physical world challenges. Erin’s site, however, attracts a different audience than mine, so she feels more free to focus on psychic phenomena. So if this is your main area of personal development right now, I would recommend you start reading her site.

"3. Thirdly, this web site isn’t my main outlet for exploring psychic development. My wife and I continue to experiment on our own, and we recently started hosting weekly gatherings at our house with like-minded individuals."

[Cantando]

Originally Posted by openeyes

Here's one from a few years ago:

Ask Steve – Psychic Development

"I prefer not to push too forcefully into psychic development when most of my readers are still working hard on their physical world challenges. Erin’s site, however, attracts a different audience than mine, so she feels more free to focus on psychic phenomena. So if this is your main area of personal development right now, I would recommend you start reading her site.

"3. Thirdly, this web site isn’t my main outlet for exploring psychic development. My wife and I continue to experiment on our own, and we recently started hosting weekly gatherings at our house with like-minded individuals."

You have just proven my case. Steve was never really interested (or believed) in spiritualist phemomena such as spirit guides. He went along with it for Erin's sake, or perhaps it was economically more feasible, (though I would rather grant the former reason out of graciousness).

[The light]

Originally Posted by Steve Pavlina

The purpose of our marriage wasn't to be together forever. That would have been a delusion since all human relationships end in separation or death.

The purpose of our marriage was to learn, grow, and to be happier within the marriage. Once it became clear that we'd both experience more learning, growth, and happiness w/o the marriage, it was time to let it go. It's clear to both of us (and to many of our friends) that this was the best decision.

It's safe to say that God would have done the same thing in our situation, and in truth he did so by creating us in his image and giving us the free will to express that image. Personally I think he's quite pleased with us right now.

Steve,God is not happy with your separation atall.and marriage is not just a phyical union,its also spiritual,and 2geda4ever isnot a delusion.ur phyicalself might diebut ur spiritualself remains intect.&in marriage you have to invite god so that he helps keep bothofu 2geda,withouthimitnevaweks