Free Speech in Online Communities: The Delusion of Entitlement (Blog)

[Steve Pavlina]

Use this thread to discuss the following entry from Steve Pavlina's blog:

Free Speech in Online Communities: The Delusion of Entitlement

[Brutha]

I wonder how often I will point people to that article in the future

[James81]

Ha ha, I kept waiting for a "punch line" type of comment like:

"And it is with that that I sadly announce the closing of the Steve Pavlina forums"

or

"And it is with that, that I sadly announce that the Steve Pavlina forums are now pay only"

or

"And it with that, that I joyfully announce that I am selling StevePavlina.com to Larry Winget."



Anyway, the sense of entitlement on forums is the same sense of entitlement that is pretty rampant in our society today. We use the word "entitlement" to justify being rude and selfish and it's kinda sad to watch.

I think we've all brushed with that sense at one time or another. I know I certainly have in the past.

[Rose of Cairo]

Oh my God! I've never seen The Princess Bride! What is Count Rugen?

Nice post.

Edit: Oh, and I really am in favor of a pay-to-post fee (not necessarily a fee to read, since lurkers cause no additional administration work, but to post) so that the mods would get something. I think this would be an only fair exchange of energy. They do such an awesome job. Thanks mods.

[AuspiciousEight]

I love you Steve. You just made my day.

I wonder how long it'll be before someone registers.

http://www.personal-development-free...rom-anyone.com - I'm giving it about a week.

[ArthurHung]

If you go through life thinking you’re entitled to fair treatment by people who barely know you, well, let’s just say that you’re in for a rude awakening. The real world doesn’t work that way. Give it another decade or two, and reality will hopefully straighten out your belief system.

I used to feel like this, that I'm entitled to at the very minimal a very basic fair treatment by people who barely know me.

Then I tried to apply the Soulful Relationships mindset. It's sort of funny because if you are using the perspective that other people are already close to you and actually are you, you can expect more love from them... maybe?

Actually, I feel that maybe, what I quoted from the article and what I just said in the last paragraph contradict each other, but both might be accurate! I wonder what other people think about this...

[aelle]

I'm with you - cheese puffs should be banned.

[Brutha]

Then I tried to apply the Soulful Relationships mindset. It's sort of funny because if you are using the perspective that other people are already close to you and actually are you, you can expect more love from them... maybe?

If I would go around and insult a strangers I would afterwards feel bad about myself and would want to change my behavior.

Loving someone doesn't mean that you let them get away with bad behavior. Real love is about seeing the best in other people and holding them up to being their best selves.

[Holistic Star]

I've not seen The Princess Bride either. Do I have to resign?

I've loved this: "Tweeting is not a guaranteed right under the law."

[Fullcrum]

Just one thing:

If I catch you peeing in my yard, I will hose you.

Peeing helps plants grow stronger. It might even keep your Vegas tomatoes well lubricated.

It's like free plant growth hormones minus the hormones.

Oh zog.

[spirit4711]

Originally Posted by Rose of Cairo

Oh my God! I've never seen The Princess Bride! What is Count Rugen?
...

Please don't go and see it! It's really a most horrible book adaptation. Instead, read the book. Count Rugen is one of it's fascinating characters .

[spirit4711]

I liked the message, but I think the post was way too long and repetitious. In 1/3rd of the size it would have been much more powerful.

[MidasGirl]

“GET THE HELL OUT, BITCH! AND TAKE YOUR NASTY CHEESE PUFFS WITH YOU!”................made my day. Somebody make me a poster.

[cacheborn]

I agree with the post. I also like to think of private forums as someone's homes. One should always keep in mind that one is a guest when visiting them.

btw, I have not seen the Pricess Bride, either.

[aelle]

Seriously now, online communities are like real life groups - learn to gauge the spirit of the place before you scream me, me, me! Many people offend or start on a wrong impression because they don't take the time to read about the spirit of the community. What kind of jokes are okay? Is correct grammar, post structure and valid sources highly valued? Do they use a lot of smileys? Do people know each other in real life, and do they poke fun at each other in a way that would not be acceptable from total strangers? It's not that difficult to evaluate, and it brings a lot. There's always time for more daring and provocative behaviour later.

[Steve Pavlina]

Originally Posted by Fullcrum

Peeing helps plants grow stronger. It might even keep your Vegas tomatoes well lubricated.

Hosing people lubricates them just the same.

[William Womack]

I'd never thought about it before, but free speech isn't as free as we think it is. Even on my own website, if a comment that someone makes is derogatory and not helpful to the discussion, I definitely wouldn't allow it.

Interesting to think about where the power actually lies in online discussions...

[Gabo]

Very interesting post. Much more political than I would expect.
Steve, it seems to me you have a great deal of respect for personal property rights.
I absolutely agree about an owner's right to make the rules in their own house.

[Trezker]

Great rant Steve. It was really loooooooooooooooong.



I have seen TPB, I'm surprised so many in this thread haven't.

[seeker5]

Originally Posted by Holistic Star

I've not seen The Princess Bride either. Do I have to resign?

Lol, me neither! I need to be banned and sent to Count Rugen for rehabilitation!

[Michelle]

Sounds like the mod team needs some sort of TPB intervention.

Go buy the film!!!

[Steve Pavlina]

Take note of the 919 Amazon reviews for The Princess Bride DVD and the 4.5-star average:
Amazon.com: The Princess Bride (20th Anniversary Edition): Cary Elwes, Mandy Patinkin, Robin Wright Penn, Chris Sarandon, Christopher Guest, Wallace Shawn, André the Giant, Fred Savage, Peter Falk, Peter Cook, Mel Smith, Carol Kane, Adrian Biddle, Ro

[Angela]

There was a big public screening of TPB in my backyard a couple weeks ago -- thousands of people showed up, and they were hollering out the lines like it was a midnight Rocky Horror Picture Show. Amazing.

[Rose of Cairo]

Originally Posted by Steve Pavlina

Take note of the 919 Amazon reviews for The Princess Bride DVD and the 4.5-star average:
Amazon.com: The Princess Bride (20th Anniversary Edition): Cary Elwes, Mandy Patinkin, Robin Wright Penn, Chris Sarandon, Christopher Guest, Wallace Shawn, André the Giant, Fred Savage, Peter Falk, Peter Cook, Mel Smith, Carol Kane, Adrian Biddle, Ro

What are you trying to tell us with that comment, Steve? That because most people like the movie, we should watch it?

*duck*

[seeker5]

Originally Posted by Rose of Cairo

Oh, and I really am in favor of a pay-to-post fee (not necessarily a fee to read, since lurkers cause no additional administration work, but to post) so that the mods would get something.

That's one of the worst reason to change this forum to a pay forum. We mods do it gladly for free. Requiring people to pay first may mean that thousands of the casual people who stop to this forum to address their issues will not do so. Thus implementing a pay-forum in order to give mods money will mean all those people will no longer be able to get help from this forum.

You'll probably respond with some argument about how those people aren't serious about PD, and other such argument. You may be right, however, I still want those people to get help about their issues, and this forum is in a very unique place to do so. I don't want the desire to see money flowing in to me to be the reason why those thousands of people can no longer get help on this forum. That's one of the reasons why I'm a moderator in the first place, because I want to help maintain a forum where all those people can get help.

That's not to say a pay forum is not a good idea. Perhaps it is a good idea to move to a pay forum and there are many reasons why such a pay forum may be a good idea. Furthermore, perhaps once there is a pay forum, there are some good reason to then give a stipend to mods. I'm just saying that having a pay forum primarily in order to give my fellow mods and me money to keep doing the same thing we've been doing is a bad reason.

In a way, that's why I like the idea of having a forum where part of it is open to be posted and viewed for free and the other part is membership-based and non-viewable by non-members. That way those people not willing or able to pay a membership fee can still use the forum to get help, while those who pay a membership fee get the equivalent of going to a house and conversing privately with fellow members.

[spirit4711]

Originally Posted by Rose of Cairo

What are you trying to tell us with that comment, Steve? That because most people like the movie, we should watch it?

*duck*

That the average Amazon reviewer's got no taste?

That the taste of the reviewers of this movie is worse than national / federal politics?

That William Goldman is very sorry to have sold the movie rights?

*duck twice*

[seeker5]

Originally Posted by spirit4711

That the average Amazon reviewer's got no taste?

That the taste of the reviewers of this movie is worse than national / federal politics?

Spirit, did you not read the rules of this forum?

Thou shall not blast Princess Bride: We expect people to pay the utmost respect toward the movie Princess Bride. Those who do not can expect to get their post deleted, and their account banned from this forum. In addition, a hit order will be issued and you can expect to receive a knock on your door within 24 hours.

[bluemoon]

I liked this post. Both my legally minded self and my "why are people so rude on the internetz" self liked it.

As a matter of fact, only government entities can "censor", technically. Free speech, of the First Amendment variety only applies to government (okay, sometimes to private entities, but only in limited circumstances and only if they are extensions of the government, i.e. parking garage coffee shop where the garage is run by the state). Private entities can "censor" whatever the bleep they want.

I personally try and say only things on the internet that I'd say in real life. And I'm pretty polite in real life. Opinionated, yes, but polite.

Due to all my obligations I don't come on much, but I appreciate being able to drop by

[Michelle]

Originally Posted by seeker5

Spirit, did you not read the rules of this forum?

Hey! You haven't even seen the movie. How can you possibly enforce this rule?

[spirit4711]

Originally Posted by seeker5

Spirit, did you not read the rules of this forum?

I did. This clause was added after I signed up.

Anyway, the movie sucks, and the book is a miracle. Never seen a greater contrast between a book and the movie adaptation. So ban me .

For the door knocker: what's your pleasure? Tea, coffee, wine, fresh fruit juice?