Man Transformation - How to Attract and Enjoy a Fulfilling Relationship (Blog)

[Savage]

Use this thread to discuss the following entry from Steve Pavlina's blog:

Man Transformation - How to Attract and Enjoy a Fulfilling Relationship

[Savage]

Incidentally, I have the following home study courses for women:

• From Casual to Committed
• Communication Secrets for a Secure Relationship
• Inside the Mind of a Man
• Natural and Lasting Attraction
• The Modern Siren
• Meeting the One

These are from the same publisher, but they're created by different experts -- Christian Carter and Rori Raye.

If anyone here has gone through any these courses for women, please let me know what you thought of them and whether or not you'd recommend them. If there's enough interest, I can probably arrange another discount or special deal with the publisher.

[seeker5]

That sounds interesting. When you mentioned back early this year that you were going to start reviewing products to sell on this site, I was concerned you might pick some product that advocates manipulation-based techniques for guys. From your description of the product that doesn't seem the case, so that's awesome.

I saw that in the fine print for the product at the checkout, that you're not legally allowed to let anyone else view the product nor resell it. This means you can't resell it on ebay or amazon once you've watched it, and you're not even legally allowed to give it to your cousin for them to watch it. While the latter is not enforceable, the former is pretty steep in my view and likely enforced. Me no like that.

You write that the product has a 30 day money back guarantee. However, the fine print of the product says:

IF YOU ARE NOT 100% SATISFIED WITH YOUR PURCHASE, WE WILL BE HAPPY TO ACCEPT A RETURN FOR UP TO 90 DAYS FROM THE PURCHASE DATE FOR A FULL REFUND. (ELECTRONIC PRODUCTS WILL BE REFUNDED UP TO 30 DAYS AFTER DATE OF PURCHASE.) PRODUCTS MUST BE IN THE CONDITION YOU RECEIVED THEM AND INCLUDE THE ORIGINAL PACKING SLIP. WE HIGHLY RECOMMEND YOU RETURN THE PRODUCT USING A TRACKING NUMBER. ALL TRANSACTIONS ARE CONDUCTED IN UNITED STATES DOLLARS (USD) AND NO ADJUSTMENT FOR CHANGES IN FOREIGN EXCHANGE RATES WILL BE MADE.

So, it would seem to me that the product would have a 90 day refund policy except for the downloadable part. Or is it because the whole product contains one small downloadable part, that the entire product is subject to just 30 day refund policy?

[Angela]

It sounds like a very inspiring program -- focusing on who you are being with women ("inner game") rather than all that goofy "outer game" stuff that just makes a man look foolish and manipulative and inauthentic.

From the sound of the description, it certainly sounds like it could really make a huge positive difference for becoming the man you want to be. I know I'm a woman, and you're not supposed to take advice from women but I think I will buy it for use in building hypnosis/NLP sessions.

[Savage]

Originally Posted by seeker5

So, it would seem to me that the product would have a 90 day refund policy except for the downloadable part. Or is it because the whole product contains one small downloadable part, that the entire product is subject to just 30 day refund policy?

The course includes a 30-day free trial, meaning that you won't be billed for it until you've had a chance to try it for 30 days. So if you return it within that time, your credit card won't be charged at all.

Between 30 and 90 days, you can still get a full refund if you wish to return it, but your credit card will have been charged by then, so they'll credit the charges back. This is a physical product, so the downloadable section doesn't apply.

As for the no-reselling requirement, I've seen a number of info product publishers doing that lately. Publishers and authors miss out on a lot of income if people start reselling their products all over the place. The value is in the information they created, not in the physical DVDs and such. As an author myself, I totally side with the publishers on this. If a copyrighted work is being re-sold, at the very least the copyright holder deserves to be paid something for the value they created.

[Scorpio]

I'm sure Man Transformation is a great product full of useful information, but there is such an insane amount of similar dating/seduction information available for free already online, I don't think anyone *needs* to buy this, especially considering the very high price.

www.datinggroundwork.com | You Don't Have To Buy Any Advice To Get Better With Women

Even the relationship stuff, which is this product's "hook", can be found for free or more cheaply. The seduction community has this funny insular approach towards real relationship advice. At first no one cared about it, or wanting a real relationship was looked down on, then the guys who started mentioning it were seen as semi-groundbreaking. In that myopic world what they had to say was fresh and interesting.

Meanwhile, in the real world excellent books about this stuff have been around for decades. The authors are often very qualified couple's therapists too.

[Savage]

Originally Posted by Scorpio

I'm sure Man Transformation is a great product full of useful information, but there is such an insane amount of similar dating/seduction information available for free already online,

This is true of any field, especially blogging. You can get tons of free advice online about any subject you want.

The benefit of comprehensive courses is that they can save you a lot of time digging, searching, and sifting. I find a lot of value in products that do that.

For some people time is a more important factor than money, myself included. If I want to learn something new, I'd rather not have to sort through tons of low quality info to find the good stuff if I can avoid it.

You can download the knowledge of an M.D. for free if you really want to. But it might be wiser to put a little money into it if you plan to practice medicine.

I've seen a lot of info from the seduction community, but I haven't come across anything with the scope and depth of what I saw in Man Transformation. I'm sure a lot of the ideas from that program are out there somewhere in bits and pieces, but I'd rather digest the big picture in very large chunks as opposed to endlessly sifting through blogs, forums, and video clips.

Nevertheless, free is always a great option if both your calendar and your wallet are empty.

[zentropy]

Incidentally, I have the following home study courses for women:

* From Casual to Committed
* Communication Secrets for a Secure Relationship
* Inside the Mind of a Man
* Natural and Lasting Attraction
* The Modern Siren
* Meeting the One

I haven't used any of the home study courses you've listed (though I am going to look them up now that I know they exist). But I'm really interested in what you'll recommend to the ladies.

I've been reading up on that topic lately, following a lot of relationship blogs, bought a few books & audio programs. I've purchased David Wygant's Woman's Mastery system and found it interesting. But so far my favorite has been The Tao Of Dating by Dr. Alex Benzer (I've listened to the audio book numerous times and gleen something new with each listening). I really like the wholistic approach, much akin to what you mentioned you enjoyed about the men's product you recommended. That it focused on working on the inner person, not just the outer game.

[Savage]

Originally Posted by zentropy

I haven't used any of the home study courses you've listed (though I am going to look them up now that I know they exist). But I'm really interested in what you'll recommend to the ladies.

I've been reading up on that topic lately, following a lot of relationship blogs, bought a few books & audio programs. I've purchased David Wygant's Woman's Mastery system and found it interesting. But so far my favorite has been The Tao Of Dating by Dr. Alex Benzer (I've listened to the audio book numerous times and gleen something new with each listening). I really like the wholistic approach, much akin to what you mentioned you enjoyed about the men's product you recommended. That it focused on working on the inner person, not just the outer game.

This will be more difficult because I can't really know what it's like for a woman to relate to men, so I may need to enlist help from Erin and/or some of my female friends who are really good at relating to guys.

It's been challenging to find good programs on relationships that are genuine and authentic and not shallow and cliche.

Rori Raye was one of the presenters in Man Transformation (she offered up a female perspective on the ideas being shared), and I liked what she had to say, so I have a feeling I'm going to be pleased with her courses.

[CatP]

Guys --

Here's my advice: Save your money and take a trip to Europe, grab a friend and start a business, take some piloting lessons, etc.

You can, of course, do those things AND buy this course -- if you did, which do you think would have a more significant impact on your life. Perhaps one of the reasons you're not attracting "10s" is the same mentality that hopes to get self-enhancement in a box.

The changes that come from hours and hours of self-study often pale in comparison to the changes that can come from getting up off your butt and having some type of experience.

[ericBETA]

I haven't seen Man Transformation, but I am familiar with Eben and you two are similar, I think you will really enjoy his stuff! (I think he reads your blog, Steve.)

-Eric

[Savage]

Originally Posted by CatP

Guys --

Here's my advice: Save your money and take a trip to Europe, grab a friend and start a business, take some piloting lessons, etc.

You can, of course, do those things AND buy this course -- if you did, which do you think would have a more significant impact on your life. Perhaps one of the reasons you're not attracting "10s" is the same mentality that hopes to get self-enhancement in a box.

The changes that come from hours and hours of self-study often pale in comparison to the changes that can come from getting up off your butt and having some type of experience.

The irony is that Man Transformation teaches a similar mindset. At least one of the speakers -- I don't recall which one(s) -- offers a much more detailed explanation of what it means to live an exciting life that will make you naturally more attractive.

[Chris_1977]

Would this course also be applicable for gay men? E.g., does much of the advice specifically apply to approaching women and or establishing soulful contact with specifically women? How often is the person you approach reffered to as "her" or by other specifically female words? I can understand that this is the default situation and that it is therefore mentioned sometimes but it gets very annoying if it happens all the time at a rate of 10 times a minute.

[James81]

Originally Posted by Chris_1977

Would this course also be applicable for gay men? E.g., does much of the advice specifically apply to approaching women and or establishing soulful contact with specifically women? How often is the person you approach reffered to as "her" or by other specifically female words? I can understand that this is the default situation and that it is therefore mentioned sometimes but it gets very annoying if it happens all the time at a rate of 10 times a minute.

I would think that a gay man would want materials geared towards how to attract a man, not a woman.

In fact, I would think that a gay person would want materials specifically for gay people as I am sure that the dynamic is a bit different.

[Savage]

Originally Posted by Chris_1977

Would this course also be applicable for gay men? E.g., does much of the advice specifically apply to approaching women and or establishing soulful contact with specifically women? How often is the person you approach reffered to as "her" or by other specifically female words? I can understand that this is the default situation and that it is therefore mentioned sometimes but it gets very annoying if it happens all the time at a rate of 10 times a minute.

It's definitely geared towards hetero men since the focus is on male-female relationship dynamics. I don't recall seeing any mention in the program of how to adapt it to gay relationships.

I imagine many parts would still be applicable to all relationships because there's so much focus on inner development. But I can't say how valuable it would be because I'm admittedly ignorant when it comes to the social dynamics of gay relationships.

[mattmcc]

Originally Posted by Steve Pavlina

As for the no-reselling requirement, I've seen a number of info product publishers doing that lately. Publishers and authors miss out on a lot of income if people start reselling their products all over the place. The value is in the information they created, not in the physical DVDs and such. As an author myself, I totally side with the publishers on this. If a copyrighted work is being re-sold, at the very least the copyright holder deserves to be paid something for the value they created.

Do they have a version you can purchase that is downloadable? Since the value is in the information, I don't see why I need the physical product if I can't resell it afterwards. Plus I live in Canada and having ordered products from the States before, I find Canadian customs tacks on another 25-35% in taxes and import fees.

[Savage]

Originally Posted by mattmcc

Do they have a version you can purchase that is downloadable? Since the value is in the information, I don't see why I need the physical product if I can't resell it afterwards. Plus I live in Canada and having ordered products from the States before, I find Canadian customs tacks on another 25-35% in taxes and import fees.

Unfortunately no, it's a physical product. But you can email questions@doubleyourdating.com to ask if they have other options for you.

[MidasGirl]

Originally Posted by seeker5

I saw that in the fine print for the product at the checkout, that you're not legally allowed to let anyone else view the product nor resell it. This means you can't resell it on ebay or amazon once you've watched it, and you're not even legally allowed to give it to your cousin for them to watch it. While the latter is not enforceable, the former is pretty steep in my view and likely enforced. Me no like that.

I don't think anyone can stop you from selling something you legally own, as long as you don't misrepresent the publisher or manufacturer, or claim to be associated with them. Ebay right now has over 100 DeAngelo items. If it were possible, all DeAngelo has to do is petition ebay to take down all their products. But I'm not a lawyer, just a person who has sold many things on ebay, including DeAngelo CD's

[seeker5]

Originally Posted by MidasGirl

I don't think anyone can stop you from selling something you legally own, as long as you don't misrepresent the publisher or manufacturer, or claim to be associated with them. Ebay right now has over 100 DeAngelo items. If it were possible, all DeAngelo has to do is petition ebay to take down all their products. But I'm not a lawyer, just a person who has sold many things on ebay, including DeAngelo CD's

I've read in the technical news that publishing places can legally require eBay to pull out items that infringe upon their rights.

When checking DeAngelo's "Man Transformation" program on ebay, there are only 4 program available. All are brand new and only available from "DeAngelo Store" and they sell for the same price as the brand new ones from his website: $485.

There are no used copy of that program, so they most likely have used their legal power to require eBay to yank them. The other DeAngelo used product on eBay are probably older programs that were sold before they added that no-resell restriction to their products.

[apl]

Originally Posted by Steve Pavlina

The irony is that Man Transformation teaches a similar mindset. At least one of the speakers -- I don't recall which one(s) -- offers a much more detailed explanation of what it means to live an exciting life that will make you naturally more attractive.

This makes me skeptical of this program. If you try to do something in order to make yourself more attractive, women will still see you for what you are: needy and insecure. Plus you just make yourself unhappy, because you're living up to other people's standards, rather than your own. Couldn't get any more inauthentic than that!

Go and live an exciting life because you want to, but not because it will make you more attractive. If you'd rather live a quiet, simple existence, then that is what you should do.

Steve, have you had the chance to see The Blueprint Decoded? It's probably very similar to this program, except the Blueprint focusses on moving guys away from their egos and neediness and towards real self-esteem. It's pretty groundbreaking IMO and has helped me change almost every aspect of my life for the better. I'm a bit of a fan-boy actually because it's had such a big impact on me. I highly recommend you check it out - your readers would get a lot of value out of it

[Savage]

Originally Posted by apl

Go and live an exciting life because you want to, but not because it will make you more attractive. If you'd rather live a quiet, simple existence, then that is what you should do.

That's the whole point.

[James81]

Originally Posted by apl

It's probably very similar to this program, except the Blueprint focusses on moving guys away from their egos and neediness and towards real self-esteem.

I'm pretty sure that's what this (and most PUA products actually) is focused on as well.

You probably shouldn't criticize a product that you haven't personally tried.

[Hyperchiller]

Originally Posted by apl

Steve, have you had the chance to see The Blueprint Decoded? It's probably very similar to this program, except the Blueprint focusses on moving guys away from their egos and neediness and towards real self-esteem. It's pretty groundbreaking IMO and has helped me change almost every aspect of my life for the better. I'm a bit of a fan-boy actually because it's had such a big impact on me. I highly recommend you check it out - your readers would get a lot of value out of it

The Blueprint is quite good but from what I have seen so far Man Transformation is top notch stuff. One selling point is that it has way more speakers and way more material. MT is also coming from a much more mature standpoint than Blueprint. Eben is a fantastic teacher and has produced numerous products lending him significant credibility no doubt about it.

Blueprint has around 20 hours of material and is only presented by Owen compared to the 30+ hours and numerous speakers in MT.

[Velorien]

Steve, you seem the perfect person to ask about this: how useful is the course for polyamorous men?

[Savage]

Originally Posted by Velorien

Steve, you seem the perfect person to ask about this: how useful is the course for polyamorous men?

Well, it's certainly relevant. The vast majority of ideas in Man Trans work for poly relationships too... at least those that involve male-female connections. That's because the focus is on transforming yourself -- your mindset, your beliefs, your communication skills, and your approach to intimacy.

There's a segment where Eric (Hypnotica) talks about what it's like to juggle multiple girlfriends at the same time, but the focus seemed to be more on multiple sex partners than on multiple intimate relationships. Personally he was my least favorite presenter of the program though. He's clearly passionate about what he talks about (and hugely experienced), but he's just not a very crisp or articulate communicator IMO. This part wasn't very relevant to me though because I'm not interested in trying to juggle a bunch of casual sex/activity partners. My interest in poly stems from wanting to take more of my male-female friendships to a deeper level of intimacy. Can I experience the kind of depth I enjoy in my relationship with Erin with other people? That may lead to sex in some cases, but it doesn't have to.

[CatP]

Originally Posted by apl

Go and live an exciting life because you want to, but not because it will make you more attractive. If you'd rather live a quiet, simple existence, then that is what you should do.

Yes, thank you. Yuck, I would hope not to meet a guy that has 30+ hours of "Man Transformation" going through his head, doing what he can to manufacture an "exciting" life for the purposes of attraction.

[Savage]

Originally Posted by CatP

Yes, thank you. Yuck, I would hope not to meet a guy that has 30+ hours of "Man Transformation" going through his head, doing what he can to manufacture an "exciting" life for the purposes of attraction.

Please don't project the assumption that Man Trans offers such immature advice -- that is simply false.

The problem that Man Trans is addressing here is this: Some guys fall into a trap of becoming so needy that they put their lives on hold while trying to master the art of attraction. They treat attractiveness as an end unto itself. Man Trans explains why that's counter-productive.

The point is to go out and live your life fully, and in so doing, you will naturally become more attractive to others. However, that attractiveness isn't the real goal -- it's simply a positive side effect. The real aim is to be happy and fulfilled with or without a relationship.

Over the past few years, I've obviously drawn a large circle of growth-oriented people into my life. I am constantly attracting people to me. That happened as a natural consequence of pursuing my own growth-related goals and doing what I love. It's not like I've been feigning an interest in personal growth all this time just so I could attract such people to me.

I'd expect that most women would be delighted to connect with a man who is actively working on being more fulfilled and purpose-driven, on improving his communication skills, and on overcoming blocks to intimacy. To me this is a sign of great maturity.

One of my friends who teaches a similar mindset, Zan Perrion, told me that when he talked about his work on a radio show in L.A. a while back, he got a huge follow-up from women wanting him to teach a course for them as well.

One reason this work is so important is that men (and women) get overloaded with so much counter-productive social conditioning from an early age that it drowns out their natural instincts. Many limiting beliefs get installed that hurt our ability to connect. Courses like Man Trans aim to raise awareness of false beliefs and de-condition them, so blocks to connection are greatly diminished. I personally think this kind of work is very important to creating a more conscious planet.

Yes, there are some really shallow teachers in this field where it's all about racking up more notches on your bedpost, but such an immature attitude really isn't present in Man Trans.

I think any women that watch Man Trans in its entirety would be duly impressed to see that men are coming together because they really want to learn how to connect with women authentically. Men are just as tired of fake, shallow game-playing as women are.

I was very lucky -- I met Erin in my early 20s, and I was able to work through a lot of my blocks with her. But most guys aren't so lucky. They don't know how to share themselves fully with another person. They hold back, get scared, and tell half truths. They need positive male role models to show them how to connect without so much ego-driven fear. They need people to show them that they don't have to be perfect to be loved.

[carenkh]

Originally Posted by Steve Pavlina

This will be more difficult because I can't really know what it's like for a woman to relate to men, so I may need to enlist help from Erin and/or some of my female friends who are really good at relating to guys.

It's been challenging to find good programs on relationships that are genuine and authentic and not shallow and cliche.

Rori Raye was one of the presenters in Man Transformation (she offered up a female perspective on the ideas being shared), and I liked what she had to say, so I have a feeling I'm going to be pleased with her courses.

I got a lot out of the book, Make Every Man Want You, by Marie Forleo. Her site has information about a program by her, unfortunately, it's set up as one of those "keep scrolling down, and we'll reveal secrets and tell you how much it is" deals, which just annoy me to no end.

Therefore, I don't know what the program offers or if it's helpful, but the book itself offered a really good perspective, of becoming someone YOU value.

[Angela]

Originally Posted by carenkh

I got a lot out of the book, Make Every Man Want You, by Marie Forleo. Her site has information about a program by her, unfortunately, it's set up as one of those "keep scrolling down, and we'll reveal secrets and tell you how much it is" deals, which just annoy me to no end.

Therefore, I don't know what the program offers or if it's helpful, but the book itself offered a really good perspective, of becoming someone YOU value.

I had the same experience, Caren --- the book sounds like it comes from a similar approach to Man Transformation; even thought the title makes it sound like it's all about catching a man, it's really all about being head over heels in love with your own life, and attracting men into your orbit is a nice by-product. And her seminars and programs just sounded like more of the feminine-power-bonding-spa things that Southern California's already a glut of.

[Johnny Soporno]

Originally Posted by Steve Pavlina

Well, it's certainly relevant. The vast majority of ideas in Man Trans work for poly relationships too... at least those that involve male-female connections. That's because the focus is on transforming yourself -- your mindset, your beliefs, your communication skills, and your approach to intimacy.

I have a great deal of respect for Eben's ability to coalesce the myriad of disjunct and juxtaposed (often internally inconsistent, and USUALLY contradictory!) 'methods' and models of the various speakers in this compilation into something market-ready and helpful.

I had the pleasure of being interviewed by him personally (in person, as a matter of fact!) for his "Interviews with Dating Gurus" series, and thoroughly enjoyed his wit, insights, and remarkable ability to comprehend my rather radical reframes so readily - despite the degree of 'counter-culture' the paradigms invoke!

While I haven't gone through the Man Transformation programme, I have every confidence that Steve has certainly 'done his homework' before opting to promote it.

Johnny Soporno
Lifestyle Guru