A Fixed Income Is a Sucker Bet (Blog)

[Brickman]

Then you can't see far into the future.

Never claimed otherwise....

I can't predict exactly what that world would look like, but I know that just because we have a system in place it doesn't mean that the world can't function if the system is fundamentally altered, it just won't continue as it is now.

Depends on what you mean by altered, could be better, could be worse...

This argument boils down to, "some people will have to live lives they hate to keep things running" and it's ultimately an excuse for why you're stationed where you are. If you're not living how you want and you've got an ernest desire to change, you've no one to look to but yourself.

Not sure if this is a generic statement or it's directed at me, but.....
You assume that people that dig ditches or do labor intensive jobs for a living hate what they do......not always true.
The last part of the quote baffles me, did I give the impression I'm not living the way I want?

And don't assume that if no one were employed (in the sense that people are now) that the roads would be in disarray and everyone would spend their time watching TV. Why do you think roads got built in the first place? The creative urge that drove those projects forward are still present in human beings. And if you think no one would want to handle the sewage or the garbage or what have you, you underestimate the range of human interests. Some are happy just being given a problem and an opportunity to solve it.

Here we are, back to this....This is not the point of the thread, I already said this. I was focused on fixed income jobs and their benefits. I'm really sorry that my attempt at some sarcastic humor has derailed the subject at hand, But if you insist....
It is not I that assumes, it is you. You assume that without the massive amount of labor it takes to maintain critical infrastructure that things would go on, altered or otherwise.
It is not I that underestimate the range of Human interest, it's you....
Not even the Egyptian worked without compensation....Do you think people are going to come along and clear your roads and bring you food and medical support or pick up your garbage for free? Why? for the sheer opportunity of it....Not without their fixed income and benefits they won't. At least not in the capacity that is needed.
The bottom line is you are totally unaware of what it takes to maintain the quality of life you enjoy in this Country.

And I know why roads were built, do you?......
Roads were built to expand territory, civil or otherwise. Roads were built to bring communities together for trade of commerce and goods. Just to name a few reasons. Mankind has always known the important role that roads play in the survival and progress of a civilization. All you need to do is look at Countries that don't have a modern and functional road infrastructure to see the quality of life you might have without them.

Also, if no one cares to build roads, maybe it's safe to say that we would be better off without them? And if people really want all these fancy roads and stuff, road-makers will be paid big bucks. That's where the phrase "If I don't do it, somebody else will" comes from. And people being people, we'd be lucky if 20% of people take Steve's advice.

I mean it's quotes like this and what you said above that confirms my suspicion that most don't want to be informed or are just happy being uninformed. Your just not grounded in reality. And the more people try to explain away my sarcastic scenario the more you prove that it would come to pass.
Let's look at Louisiana as a great example of how delicate things are, and quickly they can change. It is estimated that a lack of general maintenance on this countries roads were not performed for a period of one year. 40% +/- of the roads would be impassable. And this is to mean general maintenance, not critical overhaul. This percentage is based solely on environmental impact. Floods, snow, wind, ice, mudslides and excellerated erosion. Without passable roads power and utilities would come to a halt. Trucks couldn't deliver food and basic needed supplies. So you wouldn't have food, electric, running water or the basic necessities to live. You would also be without Emergency Response Teams, Law Enforcement and Fire Response. Most likely whole communities would burn to the ground because Firetrucks couldn't get through. So do I think we need are fancy roads, would we be better off without them, you tell me......

And this takes me back to beginning and my humble remark......

No food, no water,......extended bellies and flies up your nose. Why.....

"If I don't do it, somebody else will"

Because of that kind of thinking......

It seems you assume Steve tells us to get rid of our jobs.

I never once said anything to indicate or insinuate this......were did you pull this from.....

That's one picture. Another picture: people providing these services for a fee instead of in a 'fixed income' job.

You are aware that that's how it's done now,....right.....Through the private sector and Unions. You seem to forget the fact that most of what I'm talking about takes extreme man hours, and man power. Not one guy pushing a broom.... And that work force would still be on a fixed income.....

My point, which a lot of you seem to be having trouble grasping, is the fact that fixed income jobs are not only a great source of solid and long term income, but are a requirement for social and structural growth. How?
Most of these jobs offer decent and needed benefits such as health care.
If your waiting for the government to give it to you for free, don't hold your breath.

[Brickman]

Originally Posted by Bud921

Brickman:

I apologize if my tone was somewhat arrogant. That was not my intention.

No worries an no need to apologize. Always up for a good exchange of words.
I don't get my feelings hurt that easy......

[James81]

Originally Posted by komorian

I quit my day job about 3 months ago.

Couple questions for you, if you don't mind.

1. Did you quit your job before or after you had some form of income lined up?
2. Are you the primary breadwinner in your house? (i.e. are you the only source of income or do you have backup income from a spouse, roommate, etc.?)

I'm only asking because I feel like I am at a crossroads with my own job. I have a couple different irons in the fire for income streams (outside of my day job), but I keep thinking that if I were to quit and devote my time entirely towards those things that I could grow that income much faster.

I've also been tempted to quit my day job and go to work somewhere part time, andt hen spend the rest of the time building up those other income streams.

I guess I'm just feeling like the comfort that my day job provides financially (it pays my bills, provides health insurance, child support, and retirement) have sort of got me paralyzed to where it's hard to motivate myself beyond that to stick with something.

[Savage]

Originally Posted by James81

I guess I'm just feeling like the comfort that my day job provides financially (it pays my bills, provides health insurance, child support, and retirement) have sort of got me paralyzed to where it's hard to motivate myself beyond that to stick with something.

Sounds like a classic case of a 7 out of 10.

[James81]

Originally Posted by Steve Pavlina

Sounds like a classic case of a 7 out of 10.

lol You couldn't be more right about that.

That was probably one of the most insightful things I discovered about your book actually, was how surprised at how true it was when I rated things at a "7 out of 10" that I was sorely mistaken.

[Brickman]

If you've looked at the possibilities of getting a job vs. not getting a job, the consequences of doing taxes or not doing taxes, etc. then guess what

?

I don't know.....what?

KazeCraven, I don't think you or anybody is attacking me, sorry if you get that impression.

I simply disagree with advocating the elimination of the fixed income position, especially for those just entering the job market.

I should have said avoiding instead of eliminating.

spirit4711
Asked: Why?

Because a good fixed income job offers a solid and steady source of income. And generally very good benefits. It's up to the individual to decide the pay scale they can be happy with. People entering the job market can take a job like,.......the Post Office. Has all the bennie"s that a government job has to offer, including major medical. And still that person can pursue any supplemental income source they want. Now they have all their paid days and Holidays, pension and health plan that their not paying out of pocket.

That's one interpretation. And a valid one if you were not thinking .

Yea, but thinking makes my head hurt..........
Steve Pavlina said:

I'll take it as a compliment that you think my writing could threaten the volume of sucker jobs in the world and lead to mass infrastructure collapse.

Not that it should matter to what I think, but I never said I didn't like your writing. I wouldn't be here otherwise.

I find the argument that bridges can only be built by employees to be rather silly.

Of course you do, because you are obviously unaware what is required to build and maintain them. Assumption based on this quote.

When the world is free of sucker jobs, I will personally maintain our bridges.

Bombs that blow up bridges (and people) are also built by employees, so be sure to take credit for those too.

Why would I take credit for building and dropping bombs? What do bombs have to do with me......

No sucker jobs means it would be much harder to conduct war.

Now I find this amusing....You yourself said that jobs are a fairly new concept in society, not word for word but......

How long has man been making war?...........
I think it's safe to say that one has nothing to do with the other....

But you have yet to answer the question on your health care....
How do you maintain and tend to maintain you health care?
Do you even have health care?
Do you pay for it out of pocket?

[spirit4711]

Originally Posted by Brickman

...
I never once said anything to indicate or insinuate this......were did you pull this from.....
...

I concluded that from the fact you seemed kind of insulted for having a job, given your reactions in this thread.

My point, which a lot of you seem to be having trouble grasping, is the fact that fixed income jobs are not only a great source of solid and long term income, but are a requirement for social and structural growth. How?
Most of these jobs offer decent and needed benefits such as health care.
If your waiting for the government to give it to you for free, don't hold your breath.

This can be accomplished too if you work as e.g. a contractor too. No need for a job there.

It strikes me as kind of a dependent point of view to choose a job because of the benefits as health insurance, pension etc. Again, no problem if you make such a choice, but please don't equate that with 'the one true way'. It isn't.

[James81]

Originally Posted by Brickman

Do you even have health care?
Do you pay for it out of pocket?

For shits and giggles one day, I sent off for a quote from Blue Cross/Blue Shield to get an estimate of what it would cost to have health insurance that I alone paid for out of pocket should I quit my job and start my own business.

The plan was equivalent (not the same, but it was along the same ballpark as far as "quality" is concernet) to the plan I have now through my employer.

They came back with a quote (with different deductibles the price changed) and the quote was along the lines of around $400 per month.

Now to me, that seemed expensive. But do you think that $400 a month would seem expensive to somone like Steve? I highly doubt it.

And, getting back to the point of this article, now I know what I need to make to cover the cost of insurance on my own. Instead of thinking "I'd never be able to afford that," I think "Hey, I just need to make sure I factor that in as a cost when I figure out what I need to make to quit my job and work for myself."

[Brickman]

I concluded that from the fact you seemed kind of insulted for having a job, given your reactions in this thread.

Again, your drawing conclusions...Why would I be insulted for having a great and well paying career? And one to be proud of I might add. That goes for my wife also. She teaches young minds and the kids love her for it, a very honored profession. It seem the mindset here that if you disagree with Steve, your admittedly peg insulted, angry, unhappy with one's life. What's wrong,...afraid of another opinion?

This can be accomplished too if you work as e.g. a contractor too. No need for a job there.

As I already stated, I owned and operated a masonry contractor company for over 23 years......How many of your own business have you owned?
I also stated that the business generated great profit, but it would have cost an arm and a leg to provide my Family with the level of benefits I get through my fixed income job.....Not sure what you mean by, "No need for a job there."

It strikes me as kind of a dependent point of view to choose a job because of the benefits as health insurance, pension etc. Again, no problem if you make such a choice, but please don't equate that with 'the one true way'. It isn't.

Does it?...... I choose the job because they were part of the package....Do you have kids?......I do, and they were part of my consideration for choosing the job...... Do you have any idea what good benefits cost?.......I do, that's why I choose a career that offered this up....Do know the financial drain uninsured people are putting on this Country?... If you answered yes to any of these questions, I would have to ask, do you yourself have health coverage?....Or do you just go to the hospital knowing they will have to take you and pass your cost onto those that pay into the system?
I never equated fix income as the only option......

[spirit4711]

Originally Posted by Brickman

Again, your drawing conclusions...

Yep, part of being human

Why would I be insulted for having a great and well paying career?

You tell me. Again, your reaction came across to me as being kind of insulted. Why you would be insulted I don't know, you do.

And one to be proud of I might add. That goes for my wife also. She teaches young minds and the kids love her for it, a very honored profession. It seem the mindset here that if you disagree with Steve, your admittedly peg insulted, angry, unhappy with one's life.

Maybe you are drawing conclusions too? Welcome to the human race!

What's wrong,...afraid of another opinion?

Nothing's wrong, I think? And no, not afraid of other opinions.

As I already stated, I owned and operated a masonry contractor company for over 23 years......How many of your own business have you owned?

Why does that matter?

I am self-employed and happily so. I've had 'regular' jobs before in the past and though they were valuable experiences, it didn't fit with what I want.

I also stated that the business generated great profit, but it would have cost an arm and a leg to provide my Family with the level of benefits I get through my fixed income job.....

Kind of contradictory, 'great profit', if you can't afford the benefits you get with the job you're having now. I'm not belittling you or what you did. In the end, your net income after paying for all the benefits, insurance etc determines what you can buy.

Not sure what you mean by, "No need for a job there."

I mean that every regular job may as well be done by a freelancer / contractor as by a salaried employee.

Does it?...... I choose the job because they were part of the package....Do you have kids?......I do, and they were part of my consideration for choosing the job...... Do you have any idea what good benefits cost?.......I do, that's why I choose a career that offered this up....Do know the financial drain uninsured people are putting on this Country?... If you answered yes to any of these questions, I would have to ask, do you yourself have health coverage?....Or do you just go to the hospital knowing they will have to take you and pass your cost onto those that pay into the system?
I never equated fix income as the only option......

Yes to all questions except the last.

Again, I don't judge you for the choices you make. I respond to what you write in this topic.

[Brickman]

They came back with a quote (with different deductibles the price changed) and the quote was along the lines of around $400 per month.

I assume that was just for you. Now add three kids and a wife...see what it cost then....it's out of control, buts that's because the system is so abused and over taxed with uninsured people...

Now to me, that seemed expensive. But do you think that $400 a month would seem expensive to someone like Steve? I highly doubt it.

I haven't a clue, because he has yet to answer the question on the subject. I do however no some pretty wealthy people and they struggle with the expense out of pocket...

And, getting back to the point of this article, now I know what I need to make to cover the cost of insurance on my own. Instead of thinking "I'd never be able to afford that," I think "Hey, I just need to make sure I factor that in as a cost when I figure out what I need to make to quit my job and work for myself."

Just make sure you calculate your retirement years and how you'll pay for it then......

[James81]

Originally Posted by Brickman

I assume that was just for you. Now add three kids and a wife...see what it cost then....it's out of control, buts that's because the system is so abused and over taxed with uninsured people...

The whole reason health insurance is a *must* for me is because I have two kids. The quote was for myself and my two kids. So, no, my costs and your costs would be very similar. And I am already paying $200 a month with my current employer. So the "cost" of working for myself is an extra $200 a month. But I'm pretty damn sure that working for myself I could easily double my current income. Easily. So it's a non-issue for me.

Originally Posted by Brickman

I haven't a clue, because he has yet to answer the question on the subject. I do however no some pretty wealthy people and they struggle with the expense out of pocket...

If these wealthy people have trouble with a $400 a month payment, then they aren't wealthy.

Originally Posted by Brickman

Just make sure you calculate your retirement years and how you'll pay for it then......

There are plenty of retirement plans out there for people who work for themselves.

But here's the way I look at it. My definition of retirement is:

"Not having to work at a job that I truly love."

Planning for retirement (for me) is more than just putting money into a retirement fund. Putting money into a retirement fund is a PART of how I am planning for retirement, but it's not the only a part. The other part is remaining debt free, owning a home outright, etc.

And then the final piece of planning for retirement is finding work that I love to do so much that I never ever want to quit doing it. Hence, planning for retirement for me is more about "ok, what do I have to do to make sure I'll be ok should I become physically unable to work?"

Another piece of retirement planning is living and leading a healthy lifestyle NOW, while I am young. So that the odds of me becoming incapable of working are lessened.

[Brickman]

Maybe you are drawing conclusions too? Welcome to the human race!

Come on Spirit,... you just opened your response with....

You tell me. Again, your reaction came across to me as being kind of insulted. Why you would be insulted I don't know, you do.

After I already told you I wasn't insulted. that's not drawing conclusions, it's a fact....right there.

Kind of contradictory, 'great profit', if you can't afford the benefits you get with the job you're having now. I'm not belittling you or what you did. In the end, your net income after paying for all the benefits, insurance etc determines what you can buy.

Hmmm,.......I think I was trying to illustrate that paying for insurance out of pocket would have cost and arm and leg.....that's not the same as not being able to afford it. If I had no other means, the business would have had to do for bennies. As it turned out I wasn't faced with that decision because I have a job that has befits.

[Brickman]

If these wealthy people have trouble with a $400 a month payment, then they aren't wealthy.

lol....not struggle financially to be sure, but struggle with the fact they have to spend their money in such a way......I suspect.

[James81]

Originally Posted by Brickman

lol....not struggle financially to be sure, but struggle with the fact they have to spend their money in such a way......I suspect.

And that's exactly the mindset that Steve was talking (and criticizing) about in this article.

[cacheborn]

Good article.
I should have said 'Bon Apetit' before reading it. Gave me a lot of food for thought.. or is it thoughtification?

[JoeRad]

OK, seriously?!?

This is getting annoying, and I know Steve, you couldn't care less. But let me put it to you this way.

You're completely out of wack from reality. As much as you would like to believe, there are certain facts that are in this world, and for some of us who actually still struggle very ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ day, we actually have to work HARD. We work for our families, for those who cannot support themselves. We work to get through school, so we can one day work better, and work a little less hard. We work, we work at the jobs that support lifestyles such as yourself. maybe we are slaves, but dammit, while I work to make the things you upper-class people consume on a regular basis, maybe you could not freaking insult me while I do it!

I work hard, I work hard to help others that NEED MY HELP! I work to support others. Did I choose this, no! Am I happy, NO! But SOMEONE had to do it, and it sure as hell won't be people like you!

I usually keep an open mind about all of these articles you right, but now you're just conceited, looking down on all us salaried lower-class persons with contempt. I actually try, you know? I once hard hope, and dreams of better things, instead, I got obligations and concept from the very people who are supposed to have helped me toward my dreams.....I'm so sick of it....I'm tired of this bull.

Take my money. Take my life, but dammit, try to have a modicum of respect for the fact that not everyone gets as lucky as you, or can afford to take the time to blaze a trail through school in 2 semesters. Some of us just struggle everyday to support others...some of us are not in control of our own destinies!

[cobaltblue09]

Originally Posted by Steve Pavlina

I took those down a while ago. I got tired of visitors freaking out each time they saw it.

Last month was probably my best ever income-wise though, so were getting there. Fun to see it gradually manifest.

Perhaps you need to attract visitors who think $100,000 is too small.

[bradgatewood]

Working for a living is like being a slave - agree
Factory processing of animals is sick - agree
Eating natural foods is good - agree
Comparing people who eat meat to Hitler - disagree
Everyone who works for someone else is a sucker - disagree
personal development advice in the form of rants and insults - disagree

I know you glaze over the "your wrong, and off your path" posts so I'm keeping it short.

Personal Development for Smart People --> Smart people don't like to be insulted or guilted into change

[James81]

Originally Posted by JoeRad

OK, seriously?!?

This is getting annoying, and I know Steve, you couldn't care less. But let me put it to you this way.

You're completely out of wack from reality. As much as you would like to believe, there are certain facts that are in this world, and for some of us who actually still struggle very ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ day, we actually have to work HARD. We work for our families, for those who cannot support themselves. We work to get through school, so we can one day work better, and work a little less hard. We work, we work at the jobs that support lifestyles such as yourself. maybe we are slaves, but dammit, while I work to make the things you upper-class people consume on a regular basis, maybe you could not freaking insult me while I do it!

I work hard, I work hard to help others that NEED MY HELP! I work to support others. Did I choose this, no! Am I happy, NO! But SOMEONE had to do it, and it sure as hell won't be people like you!

I usually keep an open mind about all of these articles you right, but now you're just conceited, looking down on all us salaried lower-class persons with contempt. I actually try, you know? I once hard hope, and dreams of better things, instead, I got obligations and concept from the very people who are supposed to have helped me toward my dreams.....I'm so sick of it....I'm tired of this bull.

Take my money. Take my life, but dammit, try to have a modicum of respect for the fact that not everyone gets as lucky as you, or can afford to take the time to blaze a trail through school in 2 semesters. Some of us just struggle everyday to support others...some of us are not in control of our own destinies!

Hell, I get your frustration in a big way. I'm the guy who is "chained to a job I hate, in a town that's old school--which get's annoying sometimes, working to give an ex-wife a paycheck that she doesn't use much for kids." So, I get your frustration. I can even understand your disdain for Steve's tone (sometimes it irks me a little too).

But when I discover that Steve's posts are irking me, I realize that it's *usually* (I say "usually" because I don't think the last post on eggs was even in the same ballpark as the other posts) because it's prodding that sensitive area that I fear too much to go into, that's actually holding me back.

Understand that his target audience is a very specific niche of people. He makes no bones about the fact the he's not here to appeal to everybody. He's hear to speak to a very specific niche, and thus most of his posts are geared towards people in that niche. Because of that, sometimes his tone can become arrogant sounding because, well, he makes no effort to appeal to the others outside of that niche (whereas most other PD people try to appeal to everyone). And that's actually something that I appreciate.

(at least that is my take on it...maybe I'm wrong)

Anyway, if this post caused a reaction within you, then that's a good thing. It means you are unhappy with where you are and that that unhappiness can be used to fuel your desire to change your circumstances.

[spirit4711]

Originally Posted by Brickman

After I already told you I wasn't insulted. that's not drawing conclusions, it's a fact....right there.

Yes I draw conclusions. So do you, and everyone here on this board.

I've also stated why I drew those conclusions. Based on my interpretation of what you wrote. Doesn't mean that that is the correct interpretation, but as long as I don't see reason to change that interpretation, I'll stick with it.

Hmmm,.......I think I was trying to illustrate that paying for insurance out of pocket would have cost and arm and leg.....that's not the same as not being able to afford it. If I had no other means, the business would have had to do for bennies. As it turned out I wasn't faced with that decision because I have a job that has befits.

So benefits are expensive. Then it's better to earn more so one can pay for those benefits, no?

In my country the rule of thumb is that as a freeelancer your profit before taxes should be about double what you would make in a regular job, then it evens out more or less (including benefits as pension, healthcare etc in a regular job). So if you earn more than double of a regular comparable job, you'll be doing better financially.

[Savage]

Originally Posted by JoeRad

OK, seriously?!?

This is getting annoying, and I know Steve, you couldn't care less. But let me put it to you this way.

You're completely out of wack from reality. As much as you would like to believe, there are certain facts that are in this world, and for some of us who actually still struggle very ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ day, we actually have to work HARD. We work for our families, for those who cannot support themselves. We work to get through school, so we can one day work better, and work a little less hard. We work, we work at the jobs that support lifestyles such as yourself. maybe we are slaves, but dammit, while I work to make the things you upper-class people consume on a regular basis, maybe you could not freaking insult me while I do it!

I work hard, I work hard to help others that NEED MY HELP! I work to support others. Did I choose this, no! Am I happy, NO! But SOMEONE had to do it, and it sure as hell won't be people like you!

I usually keep an open mind about all of these articles you right, but now you're just conceited, looking down on all us salaried lower-class persons with contempt. I actually try, you know? I once hard hope, and dreams of better things, instead, I got obligations and concept from the very people who are supposed to have helped me toward my dreams.....I'm so sick of it....I'm tired of this bull.

Take my money. Take my life, but dammit, try to have a modicum of respect for the fact that not everyone gets as lucky as you, or can afford to take the time to blaze a trail through school in 2 semesters. Some of us just struggle everyday to support others...some of us are not in control of our own destinies!

That's good. Keep going. What comes up once you get past how you feel toward me? What else do you have to say about this?

If I were in your shoes, I'd be pissed too, but I think I'd be a lot more pissed that you seem to be. You're still holding it in too much.

[Jaben]

My general floccinaucinihilipilification of money conflicts with this article as it stands, but if I replace income with outcome it resonates pretty well.

[cylon]

I'm on fixed income right now, courtesy of the government's "extended vacation" program, no I don't expect to stay this way.

I was on the "oh my god I hate my job and want to kill myself" fixed income plan for over seven years, which ended several months ago.

Some of the benefits I experienced from that fixed income plan were depression, an inability to connect to others, and inability to think of anything OTHER than my job. During the weekend, I would think about how much I hated my job, and at my job, I would think of how much I wanted to go home.

Probably the biggest benefit I received was burn-out. It has taken me several months to detox, and actually allow myself to contemplate a future that does not include that habitual nightmare of a job---I finally accept all those people are gone, and I never have to see them again, and that my future is actually in my own hands.

I accept that I stayed in a bad job and that I had the power to change it, and I didn't until that change was made for me. I want to live my life and embrace wealth, but part of me knows if I "get a job" again, I could very well lose myself and go over the deep end again. I try to take action to get things going, but my gut says "no-stop. Don't do it." Like if you were going to put your hand in a fire and your reflexes stop you, that's how I feel about employment.

When I read this article, I felt good that I had my freedom, and that I can now choose how much money I made. But I also felt this big feeling of dread, like "I don't want to do this again.... I don't want to get in the rat race again.... I can't take it." I think I really would rather die than work for someone else again. And I haven't had this feeling of independence and power that long, I'm not used to applying it to the world of money.

But, it may be necessary for a short time... I don't know. But this idea of a fixed income does bother me, whether it's an unemployment check or a go-nowhere job.

Has Steve written any articles about burnout? I find myself unable to take action towards employment at this time, and probably for reasons that are illusory.

[Brickman]

I've also stated why I drew those conclusions. Based on my interpretation of what you wrote. Doesn't mean that that is the correct interpretation, but as long as I don't see reason to change that interpretation, I'll stick with it.

And there in lies the problem,.....your unwilling to change...I've expressed two prior times that I was not insulted. Again proving my point that disagreement is akin to assuming one is angry, insulted, unhappy with ones life....
Do you really think I wouldn't express those emotions if I felt the need....

So benefits are expensive. Then it's better to earn more so one can pay for those benefits, no?

No....that's why I opted for a job that paid them for me, for the rest of my life.....

In my country the rule of thumb is that as a freeelancer your profit before taxes should be about double what you would make in a regular job, then it evens out more or less (including benefits as pension, healthcare etc in a regular job). So if you earn more than double of a regular comparable job, you'll be doing better financially.

Well the fact that we're not talking about the same Country tends to change things, a lot. As a contractor you need to earn three times the cost of the job. Now, your trying to simplify and compare a host of different variables. For starters, I had nine employees. If you had less to none, the comparison is pretty much over in that respect. The reason is that the contractor business made great profit, but required large sums of money on hand to operate. Payroll, workmen comp, liability Ins, taxes, truck Ins, maintenance, equipment rental. I was a Union shop, which meant payment to the Local and Washington. I did government contracts on State and Local levels, which meant waiting at time up to 3 month for payment. Monthly cost ran from 10K TO 50K. The weather was a huge factor, you could have tens of thousands on the street and unable to recover due to bad weather. And a whole host of things I'm not going to mention. The point is that these obligations had to be met on time every time. So the company needed to be liquid. to meet the demands, I didn't want my Family's health dependent on the weather. It took a lot of money to run the Company wright, but in the end the payoff was well worth it.

[Sam988]

I don't know why Steve doesn't mention one thing.

Getting a "sucker" corporate job has one big advantage: you get to leverage your abilities with someone else's money and structure, while earning an income that you wouldn't be able to earn if you didn't have those resources available. And if you screw up, the worst that can happen is you get fired, but you're not responsible for the money you lost (unless you did something illegal).


When you don't have any capital, that's certainly a great deal. It's like someone lends you money and you get to keep a part of what you gain from the investments but if you lose you don't have to pay anything.

Now how is that a "sucker" thing to do? When the person is starting up it's the wisest choice. And this is not even counting all the support/learning, growing/traiging and networking he can do inside the company.


Look at the finance/investing/banking industry. People there earn huge sums because they are given lots of other people's resources to work with. So Steve could say: "Ah look at these suckers working their a**es off to make money for other people" but the truth is these people are also getting a big piece of the cake, a piece that they'd never be able to get if they were to only invest with their own money and "keep it all" of whatever little they make.



Of course, for a near-broke 40 year old, stuck in his position and with not enough education or skill to rise higher inside the corporate structure it totally sucks and he would be better off doing something else.

[Andrew Brunelle]

I love the attitude of this article. Fixed income is a sucker bet. I thought it was a very in depth article and had a ton of great insights. Some people on this forum are concerned that if there were no wage slaves that things would not get done. We would find a way. If we are highly conscious, we will find a way to take care of everything while at the same time living our dreams. Besides, I'm sure there is someone who is passionate about maintaining the roads and someone who is passionate about other things we would consider menial. You can always find ways to make more money and as Steve says, saving money is no fun.

[lclark0751]

Good article, still reading. I noticed one typo. I think that the line, “I can cope with torture.” should say "“I can't cope with torture.”

[komorian]

Originally Posted by James81

Couple questions for you, if you don't mind.

1. Did you quit your job before or after you had some form of income lined up?
2. Are you the primary breadwinner in your house? (i.e. are you the only source of income or do you have backup income from a spouse, roommate, etc.?)

1. I had some income and savings before quitting. That helps to make the decision.
2. No spouse as of yet, no debt or other financial obligations. That might help too, I know.

After taking some interest in personal development I knew the decision will come one day.
Being a software developer, interested in personal development, I created a time tracking app for iPhone. After collecting stats for a few months I knew how I spend my "working time". It was like 80/20 for day job/personal projects. And income was in "personal projects" favor, not to mention satisfaction and fulfillment.

I always liked tactical and economic games. I liked the idea that in programming you really create something from nothing, from scratch, just by setting bits in the right order. I have A LOT of respect for all creative people.

If you are on crossroads now, you'll come back to it again and again, in 1, 3, 5, ... years until you try to walk your own way. Despite the comfort and safety your day job gives you. You'll just never get over that thought "if I don't try I'll regret it". That's my experience and gut feeling.

I'm not a risk taker. I'm really not. Yet, I managed to get over my fears somehow. And it's OK, it feels pretty normal and obvious now, Earth is still spinning Not a big deal

All the best,
Marcin

[Savage]

Originally Posted by lclark0751

Good article, still reading. I noticed one typo. I think that the line, “I can cope with torture.” should say "“I can't cope with torture.”

Not a typo. That's a Princess Bride reference, one of many in that article.

I do things like that to challenge myself as a writer and keep the process of writing fun. Otherwise... over too quickly.