Modern-Day Nazis (Blog)

[Savage]

Use this thread to discuss the following entry from Steve Pavlina's blog:

Modern-Day Nazis

[elainevdw]

Uh-oh, Steve pulled the Hitler card!

[Speedbump]

I have been a vegetarian for almost a year, but I'm not vegan yet, although I have been slowly transitioning naturally toward vegan. (And yes, Steve, you and Erin can credit yourselves for yet another veg convert!! )

I saw the "chicks in the grinder" story last night and it was all I could do not to throw up when I read it. I vowed right then I was never eating eggs again, and I meant it, even though I get most of my eggs from a local source.

Because of lack of choice where I live, I will be even more seriously limiting my options while eating out, but I don't care. I just cannot support that system anymore. Last night I also thought about increasingly small amounts of yogurt and cheese I still eat. Although I do my very best to source those in nonharmful ways...well, there is still harm.

I think it's high time for another 30-day trial.

Rachel

[ballhit2]

For the record, birds don't have vaginas, they have "vents."

[tomjen]

I get free range eggs or eggs from my parents chicken.

And if you wonder why everybody isn't a vegetarien, let me tell you that stuff like this is a big reason why.

[James81]

Hmm, I have no preference for eggs. I could decide today to never eat them again and it wouldn't be a hard decision at all for me.

But, to be honest, this post just makes me want to go home and have an egg feast.

Not because I have some innate desire to torture and enslave helpless animals, but because of the way it is written. I wonder how long it'll take for people to realize that this method of getting your point across is just polarizing people. The people who agree with your stance are going to support this post. The people who disagree are not going to be converted because it's such condescending tone. (something that I'm not used to seeing from you, Steve)

Wouldn't you think it'd be MORE effective if you stopped comparing people to nazis, and instead just showed them the video (which my browser wouldn't load so I couldn't watch it...will watch it later, though) and then gave them solid points as to why it'd be in their best interest to not eat eggs? (health benefits, etc.)

I ask that mainly because I'm wondering what you hope to accomplish with a post like this. Is your real goal to dissuade as many people as you can from eating eggs and encouraging practices like this? Or is this just a platform to cut people down? I ask that, mainly, because there's a more sensible, less polarizing approach than this for winning people to your cause.

Like I said, I'm not defending my once in a blue moon trip to egg-ville here. I was just put off by the tone of the post moreso than the content.

[Angela]

Originally Posted by tomjen

I get free range eggs or eggs from my parents chicken.

And if you wonder why everybody isn't a vegetarien, let me tell you that stuff like this is a big reason why.

What do you say to Steve's point that if you EVER eat any product that contains eggs that aren't local free range, like bread or desert in a restaurant, you are supporting the death camps? Are you sure you NEVER eat any traces of eggs that aren't pristine?

[jestlilome]

COMPLETELY AGREE WITH THE PREVIOUS POSTER!

your tone in this post not only made me want to eat a chicken, but has completely turned me off of you as a blogger.

What amazes me is that you liberal "animal rights activists" are the exact ones that support the murder of unborn children every day as a "woman's choice"... how about this... I'm a woman and i CHOOSE to eat chickens, and lambs, and cows, and deer, but especially chicken now because of you and your condesending tone. tonight i will toast to you over a freshly roasted chicken just for the hell of it.... I hope this post makes you cringe and dream of the dead chicken i will be eating tonight because you insulted me and called me a nazi.

and for the record, do I think it's cruel, yes. But instead of fighting for the rights of the male chickens, why don't you fight for the right for these male chickens to be sent to some 3rd world country to feed baby HUMANS!!!

[Caledfwlch]

There’s really no difference between this level of conscience and Hitler’s treatment of the Jews

I'm just wondering where you draw the line. I mean if you live in a city that sprays for mosquitoes/bugs are you supporting genocide? Certainly the killing of baby chickens is a lot more graphic and appeals to our hearts more because we can relate more to them. But where do you make the cutoff?

[Sam988]

Forgive me, but LOL on the video. That was really funny for those who don't mind some dark humor. Look at 0:39, the guy throwing the little birds at those holes, he misses one of them and disdainfully throws it straight at the wall LOL.

All this Nazi talk aside, but what happened to "being a darkworker" is alright, Steve? Such a heavily lightworker biased post you made..


edit: typo

[oscardelben]

UPDATE
I wrote a detailed response at Response To Modern-Day Nazis – Freestyle Mind

I want to give my opinion, please treat it as such.

That torture for chicks is something horrible, at the same level of humans in my opinion, but it's restricted to one (possibly multiples) source. I'm sure that there are going to be investigations about those practices which I think are illegal in europe. Anyway, that is far from saying that eating eggs (but it would be anything really) is like directly supporting those practices. Here's my vision:

- if you don't know such practices exists, you are not *directly* supporting them.
- if you know about that video and you care about chicks, you can select the source and if you tell all chicks are born from large industries, you've never seen a normal farm.
- if you know about video and you don't care anyway, then you may support directly such tortures, and here you win.

In case someone disagrees with point one, let me say one thing: every one of us is directly or indirectly supporting millions of bad things in our daily life, basically everything from eating, to clothing and watching tv, because there will be always someone who dislike something (in this example the majority of us). I too want to touch a nerve with this question: how can you be proud of living in America when your country is doing wars, contributing to climate change etc, wasting money.. etc? Shouldn't you move to another country?

That said, I just want to provide another point of view. My country is doing the same things and I do like America, but hopefully I triggered some interesting thought for some people.

[James81]

Originally Posted by jestlilome

COMPLETELY AGREE WITH THE PREVIOUS POSTER!

your tone in this post not only made me want to eat a chicken, but has completely turned me off of you as a blogger.

What amazes me is that you liberal "animal rights activists" are the exact ones that support the murder of unborn children every day as a "woman's choice"... how about this... I'm a woman and i CHOOSE to eat chickens, and lambs, and cows, and deer, but especially chicken now because of you and your condesending tone. tonight i will toast to you over a freshly roasted chicken just for the hell of it.... I hope this post makes you cringe and dream of the dead chicken i will be eating tonight because you insulted me and called me a nazi.

and for the record, do I think it's cruel, yes. But instead of fighting for the rights of the male chickens, why don't you fight for the right for these male chickens to be sent to some 3rd world country to feed baby HUMANS!!!

Heh, wow.

Your tone is really no better than Steve's tone in this post.

But this is an example of what I meant by polarizing people.

Although, I DO sorta wonder what Steve's stance on abortion is now.

[Savage]

Nazi: "I hate it when people point out how many kids I've left orphaned. That sort of propaganda makes me wanna go out and round up more Jews. If people really wanted me to stop killing Jews, they should try to convince me by talking about the health benefits of not firing my gun, like not having to breath in the smoke or get gun powder on my clothes and stuff. That might be something I'd care to listen to. But this... this kind of nonsense just riles me up and polarizes people. In fact, just for good measure, I'm gonna head right down to the Jewish bakery and do me some damage this morning."

Any more lame excuses?

[skinnyninja]

Question about the logic here....

Humans are "more conscious" than chicks

And chicks are "more conscious" than, say, worms

Should the chicks not eat the worms, and instead eat plants instead because the plants are "less conscious?"

Darn worm killers! How dare they not take the worms into consideration. They would probably eat humans too if they could.

And of course the worms are probably trampling the poor microorganisms too!

You might argue that this is logic is from social conditioning based on the food chain stuff, but I don't think that is right either.

The food chain argument is based on biology, not marketing. If I really buy into the logic of this post, then should I not be trying to convince animals to ignore their instincts and eat plants instead of other animals? Just because I stopped eating animals and animal products, what about other animals that are still carnivorous? Should I not try to stop them too? Or teach them a new way to live? Etc.

I mean, why target people at all for this? You can make a much bigger impact in the animal world I bet. Find critters that get eaten and breed them to taste bad or something. That would be much easier than trying to change human minds, no?

You might say that changing one human can have a bigger impact but I bet targeting the animal world is easier. Times a million thinking and all that....

[James81]

Hmm, for every vegetable you don't grow yourself, you support the slaughter of millions of innocent snakes, mice, and snakes that get ground up in the plows.

[Savage]

Originally Posted by Caledfwlch

I'm just wondering where you draw the line. I mean if you live in a city that sprays for mosquitoes/bugs are you supporting genocide? Certainly the killing of baby chickens is a lot more graphic and appeals to our hearts more because we can relate more to them. But where do you make the cutoff?

You can stop killing bugs too. Many people have.

[Trezker]

I'm mostly disturbed by the typos in the post.
Steve, can't you get better spell checking? I saw something cool on google wave, but wave itself isn't public yet and I don't know where that spelling tool may be available. It was context sensitive and generally awesome.

[usagi]

I thought this was some kind of joke, or that I was perhaps missing the point. Do you honestly not see how comparing Jews with chickens might be considered offensive? Have you ever heard of Godwin's law? At any rate, PeTA already did this campaign, and it didn't work very well for them, either.

[yoopersmith]

Don't carrots die after we eat them?

Fruit is ok, because we don't harm the plant, just eat the fruit...it's meant to be eaten...but carrots are roots...

Of course, I could be wrong.

Then again you say the say about all the micro-death that occurs every second to sustain our lives...let's just all jump off a roof!

[Savage]

Originally Posted by James81

Although, I DO sorta wonder what Steve's stance on abortion is now.

I'm pro conscious choice across the board. My job is to see that people are making their choices consciously and thoughtfully. If people experience an emotional reaction when I attempt to challenge their beliefs, it's a sign they've still got some "stuff in the basement" to work through (denial, hidden guilt, regret, etc).

[James81]

Originally Posted by Steve Pavlina

I'm pro conscious choice across the board. My job is to see that people are making their choices consciously and thoughtfully. If people experience an emotional reaction when I attempt to challenge their beliefs, it's a sign they've still got some "stuff in the basement" to work through (denial, hidden guilt, regret, etc).

And you really don't see how aborting a fetus (the "conscious" choice) is the same exact thing as eating an egg?

BTW, no emotional reaction here on the content of your post. My reaction is based on the tone of the post.

[jestlilome]

Originally Posted by Steve Pavlina

Nazi: "I hate it when people point out how many kids I've left orphaned. That sort of propaganda makes me wanna go out and round up more Jews. If people really wanted me to stop killing Jews, they should try to convince me by talking about the health benefits of not firing my gun, like not having to breath in the smoke or get gun powder on my clothes and stuff. That might be something I'd care to listen to. But this... this kind of nonsense just riles me up and polarizes people. In fact, just for good measure, I'm gonna head right down to the Jewish bakery and do me some damage this morning."



Any more lame excuses?

You're still comparing meat eaters with a nazi. As skinnyninja said, if you're going to try to talk humans into not eating chickens, you should first try to talk chickens into not eating worms. just because I eat meat DOES NOT make me a nazi. and while it is COMPLETELY YOUR RIGHT TO NOT EAT MEAT, it is COMPLETELY MY RIGHT TO EAT MEAT and NOT be called a Nazi.

What happened to all the "Right to free speech" all the liberals are always talking about??? If you can get hostile about me eating meat, I can get equally as hostile about my right to eat it.

And Yes, James81, I completely agree with you that I sunk to his level, but for the love of all that's good in this world I'm tired of people that literally SCREAM for the rights of chickens, pigs, cows, gays, lesbians, Muslims, etc, etc, etc. calling me a Nazi or some other derogatory redneck term. If everyone should be so FREE to do what they want and live how they live, SO SHOULD I. I don't ridicule and judge and I'm SICK AND TIRED of those that do... it just seems that over the past few years that those that are screaming to NOT be ridiculed are the ones firing the shots

[oscardelben]

Originally Posted by Angela

What do you say to Steve's point that if you EVER eat any product that contains eggs that aren't local free range, like bread or desert in a restaurant, you are supporting the death camps? Are you sure you NEVER eat any traces of eggs that aren't pristine?

Because you are sure? Anyone can be.

[talekhine]

I am usually a lurker but registered because I think I have a solution to this problem:

I used to be conflicted on this issue. Then I started to think of it in terms of subjective reality. I think Steve's subjective reality posts are great, and if I understand them correctly, it is not true that chicks are out there dying painful deaths unless I believe it to be true. If I hold the belief that this video is fake, and that all chicks are killed humanely and painlessly, then since everything exists only in my consciousness I no longer have to feel bad.

[James81]

I do have to give you props for one thing, this post has definately stirred people up and like half of the online users are reading this thread right now. lol

[cylon]

This doesn't make me want to stop eating meat or eggs, but it does make me want to put on "Meat is Murder", probably the best Smiths album.

[usagi]

Hey, you know who else was just like Hitler and the Nazis?

Hitler and the Nazis. That's it.

Reductio ad Hitlerum - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Perhaps next time, you should not base your entire argument on one ridiculous logical fallacy.

[Angela]

Originally Posted by oscardelben

Because you are sure? Anyone can be.

Thank you, oscar. I was specifically interested in tomjen's response, as he was the "target audience" of those particular remarks.

[corman]

So those of you claiming to have been offended by the tone of Steve's post, how do feel about the content of the post or the video? Do you find it the least bit disturbing? Are you really going to eat more eggs as a result of this, to show the world how offended you were?

What is this argument, exactly? "Your blog post was rude; therefore, I'm going to engage in immoral behavior"? I think this is a bad idea. Even if you disagree with the tone of the post (which, in my opinion, is entirely appropriate—the only sane way to discuss this horror), why not separate it from its content and think about it? If you're made uncomfortable or uneasy by the idea of baby chicks being ground alive, maybe you should devote some more thought into how your actions affect other living, conscious beings, rather that acting on totally misdirected "outrage."

[Trezker]

I accept that I may be compared to nazis. After all, if there wasn't a little nazi inside of me why would I even remember nazis existed?

Everything I remember is part of who I am. As long as nazi memories haunt me I am a kind of nazi and have some small or big issue related to nazis that I need to resolve.

There's nothing wrong with Steve's post, it pushes a real big button. This means those leaning to one side of the fence find it easier to jump. I think those quitting eggs will make a much bigger difference than the ones deciding to keep eating eggs. How much more eggs can you eat, if you increase eggs in your diet too much you'll probably get sick and die so that's a win for the no eggs side too. So the post is a win-win.