Modern-Day Nazis (Blog)

[James81]

Originally Posted by oscardelben

Have you ever seen spiders? Or the terror in the eyes of a mice who knows it's about to be killed by a plow?

Fixed.

[jaydeschizo]

Originally Posted by Steve Pavlina

That's a pretty apt description of Nazi-level consciousness. Go along with the current system and hope it gets better someday.

I believe it was a rather concious choice, something you claim to be your sole reason for having a blog.

And what exactly is wrong with a Nazi-level consciousness? The Nazi's, when referred to the third Reich, did do quite a lot of wonderful things. They also did some things we, today, deem bad.
They consciously worked to make the world a better place, if ever there was a lightworker it was Hitler, he did all he could to make the world a better place. We just happen to have been taught by the victors that the better place Hitler had in mind wasn't that good at all.

If by suggesting that my conscious choice is on a Nazi-consciousness, aren't you propagating the same type of we vs them consciousness that the Nazi's ended up being remembered for?

[cylon]

Originally Posted by Steve Pavlina

That and the fact that I watched Patton on the weekend and was watching Band of Brothers this morning.

Damn, I love Band of Brothers. I'm going to have to watch that again now.

Those dudes ate meat though.

[colecarroll]

Originally Posted by James81

At what point does it become *MY* responsibility that there are sick freaks out there torturing these animals?

I mean, how do I know for sure the shirt I'm buying wasn't made by some 6 year old in a sweat shop? How do I know for sure that the computer I'm using wasn't made by some pedophile and is paying his paycheck?

See what I'm saying? There has to be a line drawn here between personally responsbile (i.e. I am the one torturing the chicken) and just marginally responsible (i.e. I am buying a dozen eggs, one of which was placed in the carton by some dude who grinds up chickens).

Does marginal responsibility (i.e. my money goes into some communal fund somewhere that traces back to torture of chickens) actually = personal responsibility?

I would assert that it doesn't.

I would say that you have to take responsibility for everything you do in your life. I'm not saying you can't avoid anyone getting taken advantag in the process of buying a product of in our culture.

But you clearly know that these animals are being tortured in the process and you are supporting the process by funding it, therefore you must be responsible. You can consciously choose to not eat eggs right? That's one of the points Steve is making, and I can say that part of the article is important.

You can take responsibility for what you eat now that you know this is happening to the creatures and thus you will be part of the solution.

Here is another example: Let's say you were really sick and subscribed and paid for a porn site where women are raped on camera or maybe you found out the women are forced to have sex, would you say you have no responsibility for that even though you are paying them to provide you with that service?

[danoodle]

I agree that a line needs to be drawn. Not sure exactly where though. Any other opinions on this post would be appreciated.

Originally Posted by James81

At what point does it become *MY* responsibility that there are sick freaks out there torturing these animals?

I mean, how do I know for sure the shirt I'm buying wasn't made by some 6 year old in a sweat shop? How do I know for sure that the computer I'm using wasn't made by some pedophile and is paying his paycheck?

See what I'm saying? There has to be a line drawn here between personally responsbile (i.e. I am the one torturing the chicken) and just marginally responsible (i.e. I am buying a dozen eggs, one of which was placed in the carton by some dude who grinds up chickens).

Does marginal responsibility (i.e. my money goes into some communal fund somewhere that traces back to torture of chickens) actually = personal responsibility?

I would assert that it doesn't.

[cylon]

Originally Posted by dmaterialized

Is "spilling your seed" murder, then?

Wow, if that is so I'm worse than Hitler.

I just have a question to those who are interested in subjective reality or LOA... what the hell are you watching a video of baby chicks being ground up for? Just reading your reactions I know it's something that would not resonate for me. People are being murdered, somewhere. Let's all turn on the local news and watch it, every day, day after day and keep a tally of crimes. There's a show on spanish language TV called "Alarma TV" where they show dead bodies and people being disfigured and stuff. Let's go watch that. Remember the faces of death series from the 80s? Let's watch that too, just because we can.

[Savage]

Originally Posted by James81

At what point does it become *MY* responsibility that there are sick freaks out there torturing these animals?

I mean, how do I know for sure the shirt I'm buying wasn't made by some 6 year old in a sweat shop? How do I know for sure that the computer I'm using wasn't made by some pedophile and is paying his paycheck?

See what I'm saying? There has to be a line drawn here between personally responsbile (i.e. I am the one torturing the chicken) and just marginally responsible (i.e. I am buying a dozen eggs, one of which was placed in the carton by some dude who grinds up chickens).

Does marginal responsibility (i.e. my money goes into some communal fund somewhere that traces back to torture of chickens) actually = personal responsibility?

I would assert that it doesn't.

So keep pushing the line forward. Don't halt your conscious growth just because you can't see a convenient end-point where you'll supposedly be done growing in this area. In truth the line can always keep moving forward. There is no end to the process.

Is your line moving forward toward greater congruence, are you stagnant, or are you backsliding?

[colecarroll]

Originally Posted by oscardelben

Have you ever seen spiders? Or the terror in the eyes of a mice who knows it's about to be killed by a snake?

Yes there is fear when any creature faces dealth, and I admit there is no perfect answer because animals eat other animals.

But those mice still had a chance to be born naturally live a natural life.

Everything about factory farming is not natural and it is disgusting and I think if you went into one you would be scarred for life.

I can't argue with eating food from wild grazing animals who live natural lives, even though I choose not to, but I think everyone can recognize that factory farming is inherently wrong and should not be support directly or indirectly.

Also, luckily humans don't need meat to survive. So if you can not harm and kill animals then its always a plus in my book.

[James81]

Originally Posted by colecarroll

I would say that you have to take responsibility for everything you do in your life. I'm not saying you can't avoid anyone getting taken advantag in the process of buying a product of in our culture.

But you clearly know that these animals are being tortured in the process and you are supporting the process by funding it, therefore you must be responsible. You can consciously choose to not eat eggs right? That's one of the points Steve is making, and I can say that part of the article is important.

You can take responsibility for what you eat now that you know this is happening to the creatures and thus you will be part of the solution.

The trouble with this is, that if you were to suddenly become away of all the effects of what you are doing by eating certain foods and made a choice to stop eating them, I'd probably starve to death in the process.

At what point do I decide "oh, hey, a bug's life is less important than a chicken's life"? But if I don't manage the bugs somehow, they'll destroy the vegetables I'm trying to grow. That's a very real example of choosing which life is most important. and it's not an exaggeration. If you don't deal with the bugs, they are going to kill the crops/fruit/etc.

If a company is knowing torturing animals needlessly, I can see your point. It is completely unnecessary to torture an animal just to give me a steak. It's possible to find more "humane" ways to treat these animals and, yes, even humane ways to kill them.

but by relegating to an extreme, by deciding that bugs are an "acceptable loss" because I have to eat, I am still devaluing the life of that bug.

There's a line to be drawn between sensible (i.e. not supporting the torture of animals) and off the wall ridiculous (i.e. torturing animals OR choosing not to eat animal products at all on some moral code, knowing full well that other life forms are killed in the harvesting of my vegetables).

One side is really no different than the other. They are just extremes and the balance is found in the middle.

[James81]

Originally Posted by Steve Pavlina

So keep pushing the line forward. Don't halt your conscious growth just because you can't see a convenient end-point where you'll supposedly be done growing in this area. In truth the line can always keep moving forward. There is no end to the process.

Is your line moving forward toward greater congruence, are you stagnant, or are you backsliding?

That depends greatly on what line I focus on. If it's religion, then I am a horrible backslider according to the dogmas I grew up in.

If it's personal growth? I feel like I am moving forward a little bit at a time.

[Angela]

Originally Posted by cylon

I just have a question to those who are interested in subjective reality or LOA... what the hell are you watching a video of baby chicks being ground up for? Just reading your reactions I know it's something that would not resonate for me. People are being murdered, somewhere. Let's all turn on the local news and watch it, every day, day after day and keep a tally of crimes. There's a show on spanish language TV called "Alarma TV" where they show dead bodies and people being disfigured and stuff. Let's go watch that. Remember the faces of death series from the 80s? Let's watch that too, just because we can.

You feel bad about that, cylon?

[Savage]

Originally Posted by James81

Ok, fair enough.

But what if the guilt doesn't exist within a person even after reading a post like this, but they still take issue with being labeled as a nazi just because they like egg mcmuffins?

I mean, is a reaction to an absurd comparison *really* a sign of "stuff in the basement" (love the Rocky reference btw )? Or is it possible to be defensive about being compared to a nazi simply for making a conscious choice to have some breakfast?

People don't get defensive about stuff unless they have something inside they find it necessary to defend.

If a person isn't operating at or near Nazi-level consciousness, then calling them a Nazi has no effect. They'll simply ignore the comment because it's meaningless to them.

[dmaterialized]

Originally Posted by Steve Pavlina

So what?

No response to any of my (as far as I can tell, given the limits of subjectivity) perfectly valid points, except to say this?

I'm hardly trolling, Steve. You, I'm not so sure about...

I think the problem with all of this is that you seem to be very intensely tied up in the issue on an emotional level-- that is to say, you seem to be lashing out at people who had nothing to do with the issue at hand, but who (for reasons you don't, and can't) know, are choosing to perpetuate it. But the hostility seems unwarranted.

Again: what do ground up baby chicks have to do with eating unhatched, unmatured and unconscious eggs, which hens lay every single day of their adult lives?

[chihuahuaking88]

So, I have a question. I'm vegan, but I buy food for my Grandfather. A lot of eggs and meats. He pays for it all, but I still have to go get it. : \

Am I not the same as someone who eats meat? Aren't I contributing to the torture of defenseless animals?

[seeker5]

Originally Posted by dmaterialized

Again: what do ground up baby chicks have to do with eating unhatched, unmatured and unconscious eggs, which hens lay every single day of their adult lives?

Everything.

The process here is the selection of baby chicks so they can become hens that lay eggs. All the chicks that aren't seen as productive get grounded up. This includes the males and sickly hens. Thus, in order to produce eggs, baby chicks have to be grounded up. The reason, is that requiring eggs requires hens, which requires letting eggs become mature chicks, which then requires the grounding up of chicks which won't become fully productive hens. Thus your demand for eating unhatched, unmatured, and unconscious eggs drive the need to ground up baby chicks. If you didn't eat those eggs, there would be less baby chicks grounded up to fuel the whole process.

[Savage]

Originally Posted by dmaterialized

Again: what do ground up baby chicks have to do with eating unhatched, unmatured and unconscious eggs, which hens lay every single day of their adult lives?

Should be rather obvious if you watched the video.

[ericabiz]

Hi Steve,

I thought I'd chime in with my 2 cents, in the hopes that it will help someone who is reading.

I read your earlier vegan posts with interest, and felt a burning desire to change something about my diet. You may recall I did a pescetarian 30-day trial, which I completed successfully, and continued to remain pescetarian for several months.

But something was still off. My energy levels weren't right. I was exhausted most of the afternoon. Tired of trying to diagnose myself on the Internet, I went to a nutritionist.

After multiple tests, here's what we discovered:

1) The worst part of it--the part that finally forced me into action, as I was sleeping 15-18 hours a day--was confirmed as mono by a blood test. I took a homeopathic remedy and felt better almost instantly (about 3 days.) The mono lasted a total of 5 weeks.
2) I am confirmed hypoglycemic. This means I can't eat several types of fruit, as they spike my blood sugar. Nutritionist put me on a low-carb diet. I lost 5 pounds in the next 3 weeks, even though I wasn't overweight to begin with. (My clothes don't fit any more!) I'm also taking 5 supplement pills with every meal. This has helped immensely.
3) My third test showed a parasite in my gut (Crypto -- a common parasite if you've traveled in third world countries, which I have). Treatment for that starts today and will continue for the next few weeks.
4) My most recent test is showing gluten sensitivity, which is being confirmed by a final test for genetic markers. I'll know more in 3 weeks. If the final test comes back positive, I will need to give up gluten.

I give credit to your blog posts for spurring me into action (that and the fact that I felt crappy--I strongly desired your energy!) However, the specific actions you've taken wouldn't work for me. Gluten sensitivity, for instance, means I can't eat soy. Your recent recommendation to try a tofu scramble would likely have me collapsing for 3-4 hours after eating it. Not exactly an effective way to change the world.

I tried a raw diet, but the high-GI content of many fruits made me sick, exhausted, and grumpy. I eat by the GI (glycemic index) now.

The best diet for me is actually the paleo diet. I have seen 3 natural health practitioners and all of them say a moderate amount of meat is fine and even necessary.

While I generally enjoy your posts on your diet, your specific advice may leave some people, like me, incredibly sick, exhausted, or tired.

If you are reading this and want to make a change, PLEASE see a nutritionist. Nutritionists aren't just there to lecture you about your diet; mine prescribed multiple tests, read them, prescribed specific supplements, and helped me get on the right track.

I'm no longer a pescetarian; I do eat meat (though usually not chicken.) I'm in the process of minimizing grains and gluten intake. I encourage all of you who are reading this to find a nutritionist and get tested to see what works for you--ESPECIALLY if you are exhausted after you eat or you feel like crap no matter what you eat. This stuff can be diagnosed and fixed. Blood tests are pretty painless, and the other tests are more annoying than anything else--spitting into a tube multiple times a day, for instance.

Take action and find what's right for you. Become empowered with knowledge of what works for you. And, most importantly, start putting together a team of practitioners you trust--because there is nothing more important than your health and wellness.

-Erica

[yoopersmith]

If we are all one...we are all Nazis...it's ok, I already forgave Hitler and his Nazis...they just need a historic hug!

[DJCT]

Originally Posted by colecarroll

...luckily humans don't need meat to survive...

It's open to debate how healthy not eating meat really is. There are a lot of smart people on both sides of that fence that can be very convincing. For most people that take up the cause on either side, it becomes an outlet for their obsessive/zealous streak and they attract similar obsessive/zealous types. Any logic that goes against their stance becomes an attack on their new faith (religion) and they lash out like fanatics.

Also, why do you say "luckily"? We are part of a natural system where animals eat other living animals to survive and thrive. Even you are part of this system. To deny that you are part of this system or that you can escape it for idealistic reasons is to deny reality. Your presence on this planet will have an impact on it and an impact on everything around you despite everything you do. Does that make you feel guilty?

[chihuahuaking88]

Originally Posted by DJCT

It's open to debate how healthy not eating meat really is.

Remember, though, that the issue isn't the health issues, but the moral ones.

[quickheads]

Steve, you're the Nazi!

I have several friends at PETA, but I've always found their Nazi tactics very off putting. I always appreciate when someone appeals to my intellect and reason, instead of trying to get gut reactions out of me.

Awe shucks, what the hell do I know. I'm just trying to live as conciously as possible. I don't eat eggs, but not for the reasons you mention. . .

. . . something about a Chicken's Menstral Cycle really doesn't appeal to me!

There are plenty more things for which I could be called a Nazi I'm sure. I promise to get in touch with my inner Nazi whenever I can coax him out!

[ArthurHung]

Originally Posted by MyEyeIsOpen

Hmm... well, you've made some people mad, but have you changed any minds?

That depends on the mind. Those who got mad would get mad at any little thing anyways. Just ticking time-bombs ready to splode'.

Originally Posted by MyEyeIsOpen

I mean, with every post you make the choice use some of your built up credibility capital. If the post is good, the investment pays off because it helps a bunch of people and you actually end up with more capital. Obviously you knew this one would hit your capital harder than other posts might... do you think the payoff will be worth it?

He raised his credibility capital with the conscious people (showing compassion by even working on the people who have issues with this, instead of writing a "higher level post" which in a way he would enjoy more), which provide more value for him and the rest of society anyways (and tend to have more capital too). He also gets props from life itself

Originally Posted by MyEyeIsOpen

I mean, you'll undoubtedly push some fence sitters over the edge (at least for a while)... but you didn't help us vegans, and you didn't convince any meat eaters.

He helped you vegans a ton. If you are writing in that tone, as a vegan, and not understanding the purpose of the post, it means you are not "naturally" eating, and have issues with how you consume your food at the moment.

Originally Posted by MyEyeIsOpen

Not only that, you drove some lower-consciousness people away who might have been ready for another of your messages, but not this one yet.

This is actually a good thing. Then when they come back they can realize how wrong they were, and have a story to tell to boot (instead of being unable to share value in the forum or being a self-help junkie).

[A.K.Light]

I eat eggs and meat, but I'm not offended by this post whatsoever. I respect Steve and I know that he has respect for me.

Let's stop being afraid of arrangements of words and start actually thinking about them instead. How about it?

Steve encourages CONSCIOUS growth. If his intention was to convince people to do what he wants them to do instead of making conscious decisions for themselves, I'm sure he would have written the post a lot differently.

[ballhit2]

It's much more comforting imagining the little baby chicks as the nazis, with little tiny swastikas and all, and then having them go in uniform into the grinder.

Try watching the video like that and see what it makes you think about being a vegan.

[jestlilome]

Originally Posted by talekhine

I am usually a lurker but registered because I think I have a solution to this problem:

I used to be conflicted on this issue. Then I started to think of it in terms of subjective reality. I think Steve's subjective reality posts are great, and if I understand them correctly, it is not true that chicks are out there dying painful deaths unless I believe it to be true. If I hold the belief that this video is fake, and that all chicks are killed humanely and painlessly, then since everything exists only in my consciousness I no longer have to feel bad.

if that way of thinking is correct, then murder of humans is perfectly ok as long as the murderer believes the death to be ok.... then again looking at the news every day, it appears that this way of thinking is more and more common.

[Savage]

Originally Posted by quickheads

Steve, you're the Nazi!

Biggest Nazi ever, right down to the blue eyes and blond hair.

I'm only 1/4 German though. My grandfather's last name was Schmidt, although he served in WWII on the American side (stationed in Germany at the end of the war).

[ericabiz]

The point of this blog post is not to debate whether killing chickens is good or evil.

The point of this post is your reaction to the post.

If you feel defensive, angry, or take it personally, that is an indicator that there is something within you that needs to change. (Before I went on my testing quest, I would have felt this way.)

It may not be that you need to become vegetarian. Those feelings--that reaction--is simply your body using your emotional guidance system to tell you something isn't right.

If your reaction is calm, a smile, or an appreciation for Steve (even though you may not agree with him), you're in the right place.

Thanks to my spirit guides for explaining that one in answer to my question "So, is killing chickens so I can eat eggs something I should be concerned about?"

And thanks, Steve. This was a good one. It's good to know that I'm in the right place for me in terms of my diet.

Appreciative,
-Erica

[yoopersmith]

Death feeds life...life feeds death.

Cruelty is the darkside of compassion.

The system is fine. It teaches us earth lessons, about opposites, Nazis, fruit, and et al.

None of those chicks really died...just their tasty little bodies did

All bodies die...life is without opposite and continues...regardless of our actions/behavior/or labels we use to describe each other...

Great post...would have went better with some bacon and eggs, but still a great post!

[DJCT]

Originally Posted by chihuahuaking88

Remember, though, that the issue isn't the health issues, but the moral ones.

If you operate under subjective reality you will need to define morality to me before I can respond.

[Savage]

Originally Posted by ericabiz

The point of this blog post is not to debate whether killing chickens is good or evil.

The point of this post is your reaction to the post.

If you feel defensive, angry, or take it personally, that is an indicator that there is something within you that needs to change. (Before I went on my testing quest, I would have felt this way.)

It may not be that you need to become vegetarian. Those feelings--that reaction--is simply your body using your emotional guidance system to tell you something isn't right.

If your reaction is calm, a smile, or an appreciation for Steve (even though you may not agree with him), you're in the right place.

Thanks to my spirit guides for explaining that one in answer to my question "So, is killing chickens so I can eat eggs something I should be concerned about?"

And thanks, Steve. This was a good one. It's good to know that I'm in the right place for me in terms of my diet.

Appreciative,
-Erica

You got it. Living consciously includes discovering, processing, and releasing various emotions like sadness, guilt, unworthiness, regret, anger, etc. Once those emotions are brought to the surface and processed (which can take a while), a sense of inner peace emerges.

My goal has never been to get people to go vegan. It's to get them to be congruent with their decisions.

The Nazis themselves brought a lot of stuff to the surface in terms of human consciousness. They pushed people to ask tough questions like, "What would you have done if you were in my shoes?" I think part of the reason they were so hated is because people were unwilling to acknowledge that deep down, they were equally capable of the same behaviors.

If you had been ordered to kill Jews, would you have pulled the trigger? If you had lived in Germany during that time, would you have done anything to stop it?