Steve please reconsider this article.

[The NorthStar of Hope]

Hello there Steve,

I'm hereby to offer you a genuine gesture of kindness. I'm not trying to delude you or anything.
I'm just asking you as a extremely growth-oriented man to reconsider one of your "top" articles.
Which encourages other not to have a religion. Which I find so disappointing for someone as intelligent as you are.
I mean to think based on your personal experience of Christianity, you write an entire article claiming that other religions are false as well.

One of the main things that highly encouraged me to post this thread is that you tell people to read the Bible from cover to cover and then decide or something like this...

My folks, I won't tell you that, but Allah "The Almighty God" Challenges His servant to read His book The Holy Qur'an so carefully with the greatest focus possible and find the tiniest flaw EVER!...

I personally didn't read the entire Qur'an that many time. But there's a high possibility I read it "entirely" dozens of time in the past few years. Now The Qur'an is consisted up of 30 Chapters. The average Muslim reads a chapter a day. So basically, we read it twelve times a year. Of course that excluding the number of times we read it in the month of Qur'an "Ramadan" I'm sure you've heard of it. I know people who read from 30 to 33 times only in this particular month.

Steve.. I honestly admire your spirit and intelligence. So, please, I'm not asking you to convert to Islam. And I'm certainly now here to urge with you. I'm only here to tell you this:

Steve, as smart as you are, do you think that a book which some people claim to be written by humans' hands doesn't change for 1430 Years? Not a even single word not even a single letter not even a single vowel. Allah Says He Protects it. Tell me, is it like the Bible? No, the Bible has many different versions. Yet The Qur'an has always been the very same. And it never ceased to astonish the greatest scientists in the world. Steve, you said once, that maybe our role model of reality is corrupted. Let me assure you most your beliefs and realization are well-known to our pre-preschoolers, which means you come with alignment with God's word. You are now at a point of growth wherein if you decide to expand more than you need to do two things. Read The Holy Qur'an and about who His last messenger was...

Steve, and his followers.. I'm here simply as a humble messenger delivering Allah's words to you. To all of you who read books and honestly think that they are intelligent enough. I ask you to dwell so deep into this great book whilst trying your best to figure out why do the thousands of people who convert on a daily basis "know" it's the right path and true religion ...

Please if you are an Anti-Religion or someone who is against the idea. Please I'm not here to urge with you. I'm a messenger. And I'm delivering a message.

YouTube - Amazing recitation of the Qur'an by a young child!


In this website, if you clicked on "play" you will be able to hear a true recitation of The Holy Qur'an plus a translation in English:


Quran Explorer


P.S I didn't know where to post this request so I posted it here. Feel free to move it.


May Allah bless those who follow Him and His word.


Sincerely,
Mustafa..

[Manomanman]

Originally Posted by The NorthStar of Hope

Let me assure you most your beliefs and realization are well-known to our pre-preschoolers, which means you come with alignment with God's word.

Until you understand what it means to have an inaccurate vs. accurate view of reality, it's going to be difficult to understand just how strikingly different Steve's beliefs are vs. the preschoolers'.

[Steve Pavlina]

The "best of" list in the sidebar is auto-generated based on the number of people who refer others to that article with the "Email this article to a friend" feature. Consequently, the religion article will remain on that list as long as people keep referring their friends, family, and co-workers to read it.

When people lose interest in that article, it will drop off the list automatically. But for now, some people still resonate with it.

Islam doesn't particularly excite me. It has too much overhead for my tastes, but otherwise it's still too similar to other major religions. Wrong direction for me to explore right now.

If you find Islam to be a useful lens for exploring your reality, have fun with it. Apparently it's quite popular, so you're sure to have plenty of company.

[Manomanman]

Originally Posted by Steve Pavlina

If you find Islam to be a useful lens for exploring your reality, have fun with it. Apparently it's quite popular, so you're sure to have plenty of company.

It's also more aesthetically-appealing than Personal Development (i.e. Heaven, virgins, beautiful children singing.) Hmmm....

[James81]

Northstar of Hope...

I felt compelled to click on this thread and I now realize why that is. I must ask YOU to reconsider this post and your beliefs on religion. I know this might sound crazy, but I ask you to do me one favor. Click on this website:

Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster

And please read the articles there and consider giving your life to the Flying Spaghetti Monster.

Remember what it felt like to eat that first bowl of pasta? It was FSM wooing you with his noodly appendages to serve him.

Could you please convert to the Noodle Religion?

Sincerely,

James

[Manomanman]

ROFLsauce!!!! I saw a brass FSM embossing on somebody's car today. HA HA HA! Take that Jesus Fish!

Every time I get trolled on an INternet forum, I always use the FSM paradigm against the person's argument. Most people don't "get it" (the whole satire thing). They're so stuck in their way of thinking they can't even recognize the absurdity of their thought patterns.

[The NorthStar of Hope]

Originally Posted by Steve Pavlina

The "best of" list in the sidebar is auto-generated based on the number of people who refer others to that article with the "Email this article to a friend" feature. Consequently, the religion article will remain on that list as long as people keep referring their friends, family, and co-workers to read it.

When people lose interest in that article, it will drop off the list automatically. But for now, some people still resonate with it.

Islam doesn't particularly excite me. It has too much overhead for my tastes, but otherwise it's still too similar to other major religions. Wrong direction for me to explore right now.

If you find Islam to be a useful lens for exploring your reality, have fun with it. Apparently it's quite popular, so you're sure to have plenty of company.

I perfectly understand..
Just so you remember, I did indeed deliver His word to you.

[YourHumbleNarrator]

It's insulting to think the will of God could be printed in a book, and in human tongues no less. I have not seen the face of God so perhaps I am ill-equipped to conjecture, but I think if someone knew divine will they would not speak it, they would display it.

[Steve Pavlina]

Originally Posted by The NorthStar of Hope

I perfectly understand..
Just so you remember, I did indeed deliver His word to you.

I only accept delivery of Allah's word face to face. I'm sure Allah can respect my desire for authenticity.

[st33med]

Originally Posted by Steve Pavlina

I only accept delivery of Allah's word face to face. I'm sure Allah can respect my desire for authenticity.

I am a little more strict. I need face to face contact, hand written signature with a fingerprint on the contract that he is signing, photo ID, social security, blood, sweat, email, voice recording for recognition, eye scan, and a casual hand shake to show I am friendly.

[Manomanman]

Originally Posted by Steve Pavlina

I only accept delivery of Allah's word face to face. I'm sure Allah can respect my desire for authenticity.

It would have to be spirit-face to spirit-face, because Allah is too perfect to limit his existence to 3 dimensions.

[bright]

Being an ex muslim I can tell you that what Steve describes in that article very much applies to Islam as much as it does to christianity. Here i'll address some of your points.

I personally didn't read the entire Qur'an that many time. But there's a high possibility I read it "entirely" dozens of time in the past few years. Now The Qur'an is consisted up of 30 Chapters. The average Muslim reads a chapter a day. So basically, we read it twelve times a year. Of course that excluding the number of times we read it in the month of Qur'an "Ramadan" I'm sure you've heard of it. I know people who read from 30 to 33 times only in this particular month.

First, the average muslim doesn't read one chapter a day. Only very religious people who also say their prayers 5 times a day, read it every day.

Secondly, the quran is in arabic, hence even those who do read 1 surah (chapter) a day often don't understand it, since they can't speak arabic (at least many of them, including me). There are very few people who read the quran's translation every day.

Thirdly, Steve challenges you to read the whole book from cover to end in 1 sitting. Not over a few days. Start 1 morning from the first chapter and read through the end, or at least, as much as you can manage. And in a language that you can understand. And then decide how brilliant/boring it is.

Steve, as smart as you are, do you think that a book which some people claim to be written by humans' hands doesn't change for 1430 Years? Not a even single word not even a single letter not even a single vowel. Allah Says He Protects it. Tell me, is it like the Bible? No, the Bible has many different versions. Yet The Qur'an has always been the very same.

I just took my quran and wrote a lot of random stuff on it. Did a lightning bolt come from the sky and hit me? No. Its baseless to say that because the book hasn't changed it has come from the skies. Many of the shakespear novels have also not changed in hundreds of years, what does that prove? If there is a single authority who is allowed to publish the quran, then obviously no one else can legally copy and publish it, and hence they can't change it.

I ask you to dwell so deep into this great book whilst trying your best to figure out why do the thousands of people who convert on a daily basis "know" it's the right path and true religion ...

I will tell you: because they were either born in that religion, and because of peer pressure. In a religion where people who stop believing in it, they are to be be-headed, how many people do you think will admit they no longer believe in it or think about converting?

Secondly, asking any sort of questions about Islam and the inconsistensies in it is also considered a sin, and your parents, siblings, etc will sharply tell you not to do it and just to take everything on faith. This causes a great many people to stop using their brains, like apparently you have.

Here are some links for you:

Contradictions in Quran

If you want to read the quran from front to end, i highly recommend doing so from this url:

SAQ 1: The Opening

[vartann]

Originally Posted by Manomanman

It's also more aesthetically-appealing than Personal Development (i.e. Heaven, virgins, beautiful children singing.) Hmmm....

hey don't agree Man, Heaven/ nice chicks and money are available for a Shift - in THIS physicality too - why wait ??.

[Trezker]

I have a kind of respect for people who have read the bible from cover to cover. I respect their incredible patience and resiliance against boredom. Any person able to read the bible probably has no need to do so.

[SmartAlx]

Steve, I think the OP was asking you to reconsider your stance that everyone should shed their religious beliefs. Your defense of the article is apparently, "if religion works for you then keep doing it." You seem to think that it's okay for other people to practice religion, which sort of contradicts your belief that everyone should not have a religion. But I didn't hear a recantation in your response. Are you recanting? Or do you still believe that people should not have a religion? If you don't think people should have a religion, then I don't understand your response to the OP. It would be contradictory.

Can you help me to understand?

[Steve Pavlina]

Originally Posted by SmartAlx

Steve, I think the OP was asking you to reconsider your stance that everyone should shed their religious beliefs. Your defense of the article is apparently, "if religion works for you then keep doing it." You seem to think that it's okay for other people to practice religion, which sort of contradicts your belief that everyone should not have a religion. But I didn't hear a recantation in your response. Are you recanting? Or do you still believe that people should not have a religion? If you don't think people should have a religion, then I don't understand your response to the OP. It would be contradictory.

Can you help me to understand?

I have nothing to recant because I don't "believe" anything I write. What I shared is a perspective. I don't claim ownership of a perspective since that would be pointless.

Having a multi-perspective view is no more contradictory than your computer's ability to function as both a productivity enhancement tool and an entertainment machine. It's perfectly capable of both and sees no point in wrapping its identity around one or the other.

Read Chapter 13 of my book if you require a more detailed explanation of why it's not helpful (and unnecessarily limiting) to wrap specific beliefs into one's identity.

My "stance" is not a fixed position.

[SmartAlx]

You take ownership when you charge people to hear your message.

[Steve Pavlina]

Originally Posted by SmartAlx

You take ownership when you charge people to hear your message.

I don't own the money either. It just seems to like flowing through my life.

Does this bother you?

My message has always been free.

[Trezker]

Originally Posted by Steve Pavlina

I have nothing to recant because I don't "believe" anything I write. What I shared is a perspective. I don't claim ownership of a perspective since that would be pointless.

Having a multi-perspective view is no more contradictory than your computer's ability to function as both a productivity enhancement tool and an entertainment machine. It's perfectly capable of both and sees no point in wrapping its identity around one or the other.

Read Chapter 13 of my book if you require a more detailed explanation of why it's not helpful (and unnecessarily limiting) to wrap specific beliefs into one's identity.

My "stance" is not a fixed position.

Good stuff. This is how I see my opinions too. Any opinion I have is just there for the moment, if I express an opinion I might change my mind as soon as it leaves my mouth.
I frightens me that people may try to hold me to my words a long time for something I said just once.
My view of most people is that they form an identity of me from their first impression and after that it is very hard to change that identity. A first impression only needs one instance, but in order to change something in that impression you basically have to apply brainwashing methods.

[Steve Pavlina]

Originally Posted by Trezker

Good stuff. This is how I see my opinions too. Any opinion I have is just there for the moment, if I express an opinion I might change my mind as soon as it leaves my mouth.
I frightens me that people may try to hold me to my words a long time for something I said just once.
My view of most people is that they form an identity of me from their first impression and after that it is very hard to change that identity. A first impression only needs one instance, but in order to change something in that impression you basically have to apply brainwashing methods.

My experience is that it's almost a rule that highly conscious people go through at least one period in their lives where they trash/destroy everyone's expectations of them. This gives them the freedom to shed the old labels that defined them and to consciously create something new to experience.

If my old beliefs defined me, I'd be a meat-eating Catholic computer programmer today.

[SmartAlx]

Originally Posted by Steve Pavlina

I don't own the money either. It just seems to like flowing through my life.

Does this bother you?

My message has always been free.

I'll ignore the fact that you just tried to sell me your book. Besides I'm sure you mentioned it innocently and I know your motivation is not money. I know that you are trying to educate. I don't think you are a snake oil salesman. I know you are trying to do good and your intention is to help people. In fact I don't fault you for making money off of this. We should all be so lucky to make a good living doing what we are passionate about.

But even so, you do make money with your advice. Even if you didn't sell books, people take you at your word and you make ad money. You are making money because you sell yourself and people buy your advice by clicking on ads. It's not really fair to say that you don't "own" the money either because if that were true you wouldn't charge people for your book and you wouldn't have ads on the website. You made the effort to monetize your website. Because of that, you must accept your own word and you believe it enough to think it helps other people enough to attract enough traffic to make a living on it. You believe your message enough to think other people will buy into it, and they do. So IMHO, when you say you don't claim ownership of what you make a living on, or really what you want to base your life on (because this is your career now) you seem to me at least a bit... cagey. It just seems like you are avoiding the argument.

I mean no offense. I admire your desire to help your fellow man and your ability to make a living from it. I just wish you would stand behind what you write, and accept your fallibility.

[Steve Pavlina]

Originally Posted by SmartAlx

I'll ignore the fact that you just tried to sell me your book. Besides I'm sure you mentioned it innocently and I know your motivation is not money. I know that you are trying to educate. I don't think you are a snake oil salesman. I know you are trying to do good and your intention is to help people. In fact I don't fault you for making money off of this. We should all be so lucky to make a good living doing what we are passionate about.

But even so, you do make money with your advice. Even if you didn't sell books, people take you at your word and you make ad money. You are making money because you sell yourself and people buy your advice by clicking on ads. It's not really fair to say that you don't "own" the money either because if that were true you wouldn't charge people for your book and you wouldn't have ads on the website. You made the effort to monetize your website. Because of that, you must accept your own word and you believe it enough to think it helps other people enough to attract enough traffic to make a living on it. You believe your message enough to think other people will buy into it, and they do. So IMHO, when you say you don't claim ownership of what you make a living on, or really what you want to base your life on (because this is your career now) you seem to me at least a bit... cagey. It just seems like you are avoiding the argument.

I don't sell any ads on the site. I stopped doing that more than a year ago. The only ads are for products I recommend, so mainly they just link to my reviews. But yes, it's an income generator for me that pays for all my organic produce and then some. I feel good about that.

I base my life on doing what I love, not on having any particular career. Making money is something that happens easily for me as a result of doing what I love.

If I really focused on the money, I could probably earn 3-10x what I'm earning now with the same level of web traffic. But I don't bother with that because I simply don't need the money.

I just wish you would stand behind what you write, and accept your fallibility.

Why is that important to you? Why get so attached to what I do or don't do?

Consider that this may be advice you're trying to give to yourself. It has nothing to do with me.

[James81]

Originally Posted by Steve Pavlina

I don't sell any ads on the site. I stopped doing that more than a year ago. The only ads are for products I recommend, so mainly they just link to my reviews. But yes, it's an income generator for me that pays for all my organic produce and then some. I feel good about that.

Hmmm, I was always under the impression that your affiliate ads were your top income generator. But this sounds like it's only bringing you like $300 to $500 a month (unless you eat a lot of organic produce lol).

[Kathe76]

Any time that you give away your personal power and "will" to a higher power other than yourself, you have lost the ability to be authentic in your beliefs and the power and growth that comes from any new expierence that you choose to create. You limit yourself to the role of follower to someone else's beliefs, not your own. It is fine to stay in any religion that you choose that feels right to you, but you will get to a point in your spiritual growth that you will only want to be lead by your essence, your true self.

[SmartAlx]

Originally Posted by Steve Pavlina

Why is that important to you? Why get so attached to what I do or don't do?

It's not me. It's your followers. I expect a leader in the community, a guru of the Law of Attraction to have integrity. Thousands of people look up to you and if when you aren't willing to stand behind your word, you can say anything you want and change your position at any time without regret. You aren't a politician in Washington. You are a personal development coach trying to improve people's lives. If you keep changing your message, it dilutes what you teach. How can anyone trust your advice if you keep changing it? What might be true today might be wrong tomorrow. That weakens your message.

Consider that this may be advice you're trying to give to yourself. It has nothing to do with me.

You should know that I stand behind what I write. I don't change my position. I take ownership of what I do here and everywhere.

It IS for you so you can deal with people like the OP without frustrating them. Or do you not care that you frustrated the OP and gave him a non-answer? In fact you dismissed his question. Do you care that you are giving me a non-answer? That you are dismissing my questions? Don't you care about your readers? Or do you only care about the choir? I don't believe that you do. I think you do care. So why won't you answer the question? Did you contradict your own message that no one should have a religion when you told the OP that he should stick with Islam?

You aren't giving opinions in your articles. You are giving advice. Your message in the religion article was quite black and white and definitely directed at us. You didn't say that it was just a perspective and we should take it with a grain of salt. You told us that if we knew what was good for us, we would get rid of religion. Period. That not a perspective. That's a directive. And now I hear you telling me that you don't need to stand behind your word. I can not understand how any guru of personal development who is selling himself as a man with all of the answers won't stand behind his own words. That completely weakens his message. Do you doubt yourself that much? Of course you don't. Your logic won't allow for it. But doesn't that make your logic a defense mechanism? Yeah. That sounds more realistic. You are afraid if you stand behind what you write you'll be found out. Is that it? Sure seems like it.

If you won't come out and deal with the tough questions head on, and instead choose to avoid them, then what kind of a teacher are you?

Please Steve, come out of the cave and fight the monster. You don't want to stay holed up in there your whole life do you?

Answer the question.

[MidasGirl]

Originally Posted by SmartAlx

You didn't say that it was just a perspective and we should take it with a grain of salt. .

Really? I thought this was just common sense. Maybe common sense isn't that common after all. Maybe Steve needs to write an article called, "How to have your own perspective".

[Ekb]

Lol, I love people. But only for today.

[SmartAlx]

Originally Posted by MidasGirl

Really? I thought this was just common sense.

You think it's common sense to not have a religion? Tell that to 5 billion people.

Maybe you meant that everything we say and hear should be taken with a grain of salt.

Then why are you here?

Steve said:

In this article I’ll share 10 reasons why you must eventually abandon the baggage of organized religion if you wish to pursue conscious living in earnest.

That's not a perspective. That's direction.

Maybe common sense isn't that common after all.

Then maybe it should be called be personal sense.

[SmartAlx]

Originally Posted by Kathe76

Any time that you give away your personal power and "will" to a higher power other than yourself, you have lost the ability to be authentic in your beliefs and the power and growth that comes from any new expierence that you choose to create. You limit yourself to the role of follower to someone else's beliefs, not your own. It is fine to stay in any religion that you choose that feels right to you, but you will get to a point in your spiritual growth that you will only want to be lead by your essence, your true self.

If you believe this, then why are you here?

I do agree that there is nothing wrong with questioning one's beliefs. Why me questioning my faith has made me an even stronger Christian. It also made CS Lewis a stronger Christian. So much so that he became one of Christianities most cherished philosophers.

But, we must acknowledge that we are not smart enough to figure everything out on our own. We are a society built on cooperation. We give one another advice. We take advice from others. In truth your beliefs are an amalgum of your own experiences, thoughts, and influences from other people. To deny that is to deny yourself.

[MidasGirl]

Originally Posted by SmartAlx

Maybe you meant that everything we say and hear should be taken with a grain of salt.

Then why are you here?

"Here" where?