Understanding Human Relationships (Blog)

[Sean.M.Connelly]

I notice a lot of the questions in this thread are a result of thinking about how the idea would objectively work. So some posts think the idea doesn't make sense. Well... of course it doesn't make sense if you are insistent on viewing it from an objective standpoint.

You have to force yourself to keep in mind that the relationship exists inside your head ONLY. Which is true - objectively speaking, your ideas and beliefs about the relationship are only inside of your head. This relationship-idea is not outside of yourself, floating around. It is inside.

So - as an example you guys gave - what if someone annoys you because they are always late? How can you "fix" this? The goal isn't to force them to be on time. The goal isn't to force yourself to accept that they are always late. Don't try to define a goal. Look INSIDE YOURSELF. I have a few friends that are late a lot... so I will look inside my self right now to see what I think about it. This process will be entirely different for you, even though we both share the same annoyance. Digging into the mind tends to become long winded :-P.

My friend Mark is always late. It bothers me because being late is disrespectful to other people. Being late means that you didn't properly plan ahead. Mark should be planning ahead before he leaves his house. If he notices that he is constantly late, then that should be an indicator to him that he needs to leave 5 or 10 minutes earlier than he normally would.

I mean... people are sitting there WAITING on Mark. That's just rude. His actions are causing people to waste time, and throwing off schedules. We all have places to be, we all have things we need to accomplish. Everyone else can manage their time to ensure they are on time. Why does Mark have such a problem?

Being late, even by a little amount, is deception. When we set a time, and everyone agrees to show up at that time, and Mark doesn't - then he was lying. Maybe not consciously - but at that moment when Mark told us he would show up at that time, he essentially lied to us.

What does this mean about myself? Well, it means that when I tell someone I'm going to do something, then I follow through. It means that the words that come out of my mouth mean something. I want others to give it to me straight, so I can work things out in my head without having to worry about "what ifs". Because of that, I am straight with other people. When I say something, they shouldn't have to think to themselves, "What if Sean doesn't do what he says?". Like my father told me when I was young: Mean what you say, and Say what you mean.

Being late ultimately comes down to not meaning what you say. It adds a whole other level of uncertainty to reality. Perhaps the reason I don't like it when Mark is late is because I am afraid of that extra level of uncertainty. If we can eliminate uncertainty, we should! And with being punctual, it's very easy to eliminate that uncertainty. All you have to do is leave early. So do it.

What's so bad about uncertainty? I mean... nothing in life is guaranteed. Hell, I have been late sometimes. Things DO come up. What does that mean to me if things start to become uncertain?

Well, it's about control. If we want to accomplish something, then we need to be in control. I have the self control and discipline to show up on time. That means I can plan things out. That means I can control the direction I'm moving in. When Mark shows up late, that threatens everyone's ability to control the situation.

...

I want Mark to be more in control of his life. I want him to have more discipline. Does that mean I view my own life as out of control? Does that mean I view myself as lacking discipline? Well yeah.

My life IS out of control. I have no larger goals. I also do lack self discipline. One area that immediately comes to mind is my health. I need to have the discipline to exercise regularly. I sleep too much. I set goals to sleep less, but I never follow through.

So: my solution to this problem is to set some larger goals for myself, so I know what direction I'm working towards. And also, something I can immediately do is to sleep less, and exercise more.

Hrm. I wonder if that will work. Now, when I started typing that out, I really didn't expect myself to solve Mark being late by sleeping less, exercising, and having long term goals.

Now you were to ask me, "Hey, does Mark being late bother you?" - "Yeah, but I'm going to exercise more, sleep less, and come up with some long term goals. I hope that will fix it."

That wouldn't make sense.

But it does make sense, now that I think about it. In fact, me and Mark had a conversation about sleep. I told him that I get, on average, 9 hours of sleep a night. He told me he gets 3 - 6 hours. 6 hours if he's lucky. I totally forgot about that conversation - but I wonder if Mark thinks of it when he is late? He might be thinking to himself, "Yeah, I know I'm a little late, but how can Sean complain? He gets three times as much sleep as I do." If not consciously, then I bet he does subconsciously.

I also told Mark I was going to go lifting with him, but never followed through. I wonder if that is also inside of Mark's head when he is late. "Yeah, I need to work on not being late, but at least I exercise all the time. It's easy to be on time when you sleep 9 hours and walk your lazy ass to work."

In fact, I bet he does think that! :-P

In that way, if I started to sleep less, and exercise more - not only would it improve myself, but I suspect it would start giving Mark less excuses on why he can be late.

---------

I'm not sure if what I just did above is what Steve's article is outlining, but I think it is. If you've read this far, then wow - good job :-).

~Sean

[paurnima]

Originally Posted by Steve Pavlina

Use this thread to discuss the following entry from Steve Pavlina's blog:

Understanding Human Relationships

hi steve,
this was very nice informative and at first glance quiet hard to digest issue. I found it good once i read it..

thanks a lot.

[Angela]

Complaining and bossing ("advising") are not effective ways to make another person change. Most people will resist, and if they do change, there will probably be resentment, a feeling of being "owed", or other thoughts that don't feel good. But complaining and bossing are great sources for your own growth! But it's not so eye-for-an-eye, as some people in the thread have been baffled about. If it was, it would be so easy to see! You have to look a little deeper. Here's some conversations I had in December:

(Angela to Angela, silently): V. is always late, and it drives me batshit. I keep my word and be on time, so she should, too. I feel trapped when I'm kept waiting, and it's wrong of her to trap me! She acts like her time is more valuable than mine. She's training me to not trust her. Just because she's busy and overwhelmed....d'oh! It occurs to me that I'm really busy and overwhelmed at work, and there are little resistances I'm doing there that cost my boss my time. Plus it just adds to my overwhelm. What, me? passive aggressive?! Rats. Maybe it's not V. I'm complaining about.

(Angela to V., out loud): V., I'm uncomfortable waiting for you when you don't show up at the time we agreed to. I love you and love spending time with you, but this has become a problem for me. I'm sorry I've gotten mad at you and made things worse. The discomfort really kicks in for me after waiting for about 10 or 15 minutes, so going forward, if you're 15 minutes late, I will have ordered my meal, or gone ahead into the movie, or simply left. Does that work for you?

(V. to Angela -- V. is crying a little): You know, I've been really busy and overwhelmed with kids, husband, and house, and I can see that being late is one way I sort of feel in control. It's not fair that you've had to pay the price for that, and I'm sorry. In the future I will do my best to be on time, and if you're gone, then I'll know I have no one to blame but myself. Would you please at least keep your cell phone on so I won't have to worry?

(Angela to V.): sure! (love love hugs hugs).

(Angela to Mr. Boss): You and Mrs. Boss have been piling more tasks on me than I can handle, and we all get upset when things fall through the cracks. I've been overwhelmed and haven't been doing the best possible job for you, but I love you and want to do a great job and have us all be succesful. How about we hire another person to help out?

(Mr. Boss to Angela): I know. I'm really overwhelmed lately, too. Just do the best you can and we'll have to deal with things falling through the cracks. I'm not going to hire another person right now. We love you and want you to work for us forever, though; I'll tell Mrs. Boss to back off. Meanwhile, what else would it take to make you happy?

(Angela to Mr. Boss): More money would help -- how about a 15% raise?

(Mr. Boss to Angela): Ok. You want another mojito? (glug glug)

[John Wesley]

This reminds me of a famous quote I've heard, "The things that you don't like reveal your faults." I've found this to be very true when I take the time to reflect on the things that I'm against.

Another interesting aspect of relationship is that each and every personal relationship is unique. In reality we have no idea what the relationship between 2 other people is like because there is so much we don't know.

[aartist]

You must be the change you want to see in the world.” Mahatma Gandhi.

Steve has presented the same concept and has gone in depth, to explain how to live this.

[Antemeridian]

There are a few points on this I'd like to contribute.

As far as the original article, I'd largely have to agree. This actually reminds me of a time in high school (probably a little over 10 years ago now, I guess) when a band director who was a large influence on me said something along the same lines. Basically, when you recognize something, whether it be good or bad, in another person or in music, etc., then you're really recognizing it in yourself. That's something I've kept in my mind since then, and this article further expands on the idea, and I very much enjoyed it.

Now, the second point I wanted to make was this. Reading the article and these posts, I've also thought that this is a tool to use when dealing with others as well. In some cases, it can be easier to understand where certain behaviours are coming from if you look at other people's actions towards you in the same way. Now, this is taking things a step further away, which means that it may not be accurate, or might be too subjective, but its an interesting way to further extrapolate.

For example, and if this seems a little convoluted, I apologize, I'm working as I go here:

A friend/colleague of yours has been complaining to you about certain things, perhaps commenting over how they feel you aren't being ambitious enough in your career advancement goals. Thus, you may be able to infer that they may be unhappy with their own drive for success. Now, depending on your situation, you may be able to do something to help, you may not, but at the very least, you may now have a better understanding of the person you are working with, and what they are thinking and feeling. And, when tied into the previous article on gratitude, you may now find it easier to feel grateful for the person complaining or commenting, as you can see deeper into the situation.

I guess if I worked with the article's example, it would be that Erin would understand that Steve was really, unknowingly unhappy with his own level of organization if he started commenting on how she should become more organized.

Hmmm . . . not sure if that's making a whole lot of sense, but I'll put the thought out there, as perhaps as a group people will be able to make more of it rather than my own ramblings . . .

Thanks,

Adam

[ferociousgoals]

Don't have much time here, sorry if this is hurried--

Though I don't agree with much of Steve's blog this time, I think some people are misreading the lateness issue, which can be fixed in your own head (I know because I had to do it with one persistently late pal who was driving me CRAZY).

She was late because she didn't value other people's time is the ultimate conclusion. She valued being able to take her own time, screw around, mess with her own stuff, knowing that others were waiting for her. After a long time of steaming about it, I realized that by waiting for her, I also wasn't valuing someone's time--my own. As soon as I prioritized my time and stopped waiting for her (value-free**) she began to respect my time in turn. I had the power to place value on it for myself.

**I didn't yell or moan or even confront, I just left if she wasn't there after ten minutes past our agreed time. When she asked, I'd say, neutrally, something like "oh yeah, I had a bunch of things to do so I didn't have the time if you weren't there when we agreed. Does next Saturday work?"

[Gary]

I don’t think Steve is saying that unconditional love is unconditional acceptance. At least I didn’t read that in his post.

I think that he is inviting us to look into our own mind when we have criticisms and emotional reactions to other people. He is inviting a level of emotional mastery that not too many people consider, and even fewer attempt. It first requires that we take complete responsibility for all our emotions. And then challenge our self to master creating emotions and thoughts consciously, instead of through reactions.

Consider the case of the co-worker who is always correcting someone even when there is nothing wrong. He might be disrespectful, and even unkind, but in the end who is creating your emotions?

People might be kind, rude, and disrespectful, but if we have judgment of them isn’t that in our own eye?

It is a real mastery to not be offended when others are unkind, rude, and disrespectful, but it can be done.

[danas]

Originally Posted by eastcoastgirl

I have a friend who is habitually late; I’m habitually on time. How is she a reflection of me? And my being on time has not influenced her to be on time. She's still just as late as ever.

I do agree completely, though, with what Steve said about interacting more with others as a way to learn about yourself. I also agree that improving your internal relationships improves your relationships with others.

I believe, like steve, that if it bothers you, then you must look inwards.

Ask yourself why does her being late bother you? Is it that she is inconsiderate of others? In that case, maybe you are always on time, but perhaps you are inconsiderate in other ways. Work on that, and she might change.
Its like if my friend's smoking bothers me and I dont smoke. If its the fact that they neglet their health that bothers me, then I must ask myself : How am I negleting my health?
I believe that if its in my life and it bothers me- then its a mirror. The stronger it annoys me, the more accurate the mirror, and the greater oppurtunity to grow by changing myself.

[Fusebox]

Yep, this whole thing is similar to a sermon I heard a few months back. "Happiness comes from within".

And this is what personal development is about too.... improving oneself to improve their life, be more successful etc.

Excellent article Steve.

[Vanilla]

Originally Posted by ferociousgoals

Don't have much time here, sorry if this is hurried--

Though I don't agree with much of Steve's blog this time, I think some people are misreading the lateness issue, which can be fixed in your own head (I know because I had to do it with one persistently late pal who was driving me CRAZY).

She was late because she didn't value other people's time is the ultimate conclusion. She valued being able to take her own time, screw around, mess with her own stuff, knowing that others were waiting for her. After a long time of steaming about it, I realized that by waiting for her, I also wasn't valuing someone's time--my own. As soon as I prioritized my time and stopped waiting for her (value-free**) she began to respect my time in turn. I had the power to place value on it for myself.

**I didn't yell or moan or even confront, I just left if she wasn't there after ten minutes past our agreed time. When she asked, I'd say, neutrally, something like "oh yeah, I had a bunch of things to do so I didn't have the time if you weren't there when we agreed. Does next Saturday work?"

I agree. While a friend's lateness may play a totally different role in another person's life. It's about finding the role that their lateness plays in your life. And in your case it was about valuing your time.

[impaul99]

I really liked this article and I know it's true because I've seen it happen to me.

I actually wrote an article about 6 months ago that adds one more layer to this here: How to Change the People Around You

Basically, I just point out that when you do this process of changing yourself, the people around you might not necessarily change immediately. Meaning, if you become a tidy person on Monday and you get home on Tuesday, it doesn't mean your partner will all of a sudden be interested in being Tidy. Or if you start exercising tomorrow, it doesn't they will too. Sometimes it takes a while for people to "catch up". I believe it has to do with your own re-alignment on the inside which takes a while.

[joanmhe]

Originally Posted by happymomof2

Have any of you read Byron Katie's book Loving What Is? Steve's message sounds very similar to Katie's, specifically the process she calls "The Turnaround."

If you're interested, check out her website http://www.thework.com/. I find myself automatically employing her 4-step process (followed most importantly by the "turnaround'), whenever I am bothered by relationship issues.
.

I definitely see the parallels with Byron Katie - she advises parents to start picking up the socks if you want your kids to pick up the socks. Sort of hard for me to stick to completely.

Okay - so my daughter is goofing off on the computer and IMing her friends instead of doing homework or chores, and her grades are not what they should be - I am goofing off on the computer when I should be working? Yes. She is disrespectful - I am disrespectful to her - yes. She pointed out to me when I commented on her report card, that I am not the most exemplary mother (yes, exemplary) - perfect choice of words.

Then my relationship with my mother - last night she called me and was so difficult that after 30 minutes, I told her that I'd had enough and hung up on her, then spent several hours lying awake in bed reminding myself that she is irrational and delusional and I can't do anything about it So I should be more sane? Have to think about this.

[Megan]

Paul, I loved your blog! Just bookmarked and printed it--thanks!

The only solution I've found is to keep moving yourself forward and almost like magic the people around you will follow along. If advice isn't working, you need to turn inwards and work on your current problem, not theirs. It's the only thing that will help them.
--Paul Piotrowski
How to Change the People Around You

Lawrence Kohlberg's conception of Stages of Moral Development contains this general 'social updraft' idea also, I think:

If Kohlberg is right about the hierarchic nature of his stages, we would expect that people would still be able to understand earlier stages but consider them inferior, In fact, when Rest, et. al, presented adolescents with arguments from different stages, this is what he found.

They understood lower-stage reasoning, but they disliked it. What they preferred was the highest stage they heard, whether they fully understood it or not. This finding suggests, perhaps, that they had some intuitive sense of the greater adequacy of the higher stages.

Kohlberg's Moral Stages

So, even if people don't act on higher advice, they are still responding to it in some way--the seeds are planted.

happymomof2, thanks for this reminder also:

The Work of Byron Katie
Four Questions

1. Is it true?
2. Can you absolutely know that it's true?
3. How do you react when you believe that thought?
4. Who would you be without the thought?

And remember to turn it around.

The Work of Byron Katie - Byron Katie International

What would happen if a critical mass of people started thinking/acting this way?

[Lychee]

If someone is complaining about superficial relationships, does that mean the person is superficial, or at least has a superficial relationship with their own self?

If you're having a fight with a friend, does that mean you are fighting with yourself?

I'm really having trouble understanding this.

[Erock]

The best thing about Steve is how he takes a radical concept like subjective reality, and breaks it down in to simple understandable day to day circumstances, like human relations. I can see that some people "get it" and some people don't. That is neither a bad nor good thing, but the responses are almost more informative then the actual blog entry itself.

Erock

[Tsuyu]

After reading Sean and FerociousGoals's posts, I understand now. I still have yet to try it for myself to see whether it will work well, but I get the idea.

Thanks! =3

[escapee]

For example, if you dislike George Bush because you think he’s a poor leader, could this be because your own leadership skills are sub par? Then go to work on your own leadership skills, or work on becoming more accepting of your current skill level, and notice how George Bush suddenly seems to be making dramatic improvements in this area.

I understand pretty much about everything of the article except above. What I do know is that if Bush is left to do things unchallenged, there is definitely a very high risk of another unnecessary and bloody middle east war (eg : Iran) for USA and its "unwilling" allies. Bush's action and decision need to be balanced back by swift opposite energy(Ying and yang) before he does something that's unimaginable. The guys in democratic party (and some republicans with conscience) and those who are actively pro peace and pro non-aggression offer the best hope to stop another nightmare. I believe direct action speaks louder than indirect action in this case. Just my 2 cents Steve No war with IRAN petition / No War in Iran - Signatures

[Dharma]

Originally Posted by Lychee

If someone is complaining about superficial relationships, does that mean the person is superficial, or at least has a superficial relationship with their own self?

"Look, there's me complaining that I'm being superficial with myself. I guess I'm showing me I don't like when I do that."

Originally Posted by Lychee

If you're having a fight with a friend, does that mean you are fighting with yourself?

Exactly.

And for those who mention George Bush....

"The part of me that has control of the most powerful parts of me, and has the most influence on me, is not the wisest leader I could choose. But time and time again I keep choosing the less evolved parts of me to run all of me. I guess it's a pattern I have.

I see plenty of other parts of me that could do this better. But I never put them in the position of leader. I guess I'm showing me that I need more consciousness in the choices I make and what parts of me I put in charge of me. "

[Kelvin]

Hi Everyone, I am new here.

This blog/article entry from Steve is pretty timely for me. Not too long ago, I was reflecting on myself for the sour relationship I have with my current colleagues. I even blogged about it questioning my EQ, my style or behaviour at work etc.

Cut the long story short, being in the middle management, my peers dont like to work directly with me reasons being

1) I dont tolerate nonsense, when I find something(project) done not right, I would point out straight away, hoping to improve for good of everyone. Perhaps is the way I put the message across, people felt intimidated, even to a more experience and senior peers.

2) Felt that I am a threat in their company position. Some purposely try to bypass me on some key projects, shutting off information from me or claim credits once there is some result.

Over time, it seems that all are going against me, making things difficult for me, and not wanting to deal with me directly. Office politics exist, trying to oust me, till a stage I think even my boss cant save me. And I begin to lose favourtism from boss slowly.

I did try to mend the relationship, being nice and work things with them but in the end they tried to take advantage of the situation and push the responsibilties back to my team. I got no choice but revert back to more principle oriented and firm at it.

I am not sure if I describe the situation it well enough. Although I would start from fresh again in 2 months time due to restructering in the company and my existing colleagues would not be working with me again then. I still wants to figure out if I were put in the same environment how can I handled it better.

Been dwelling on Steve's article to see if there is a link to it, and accordingly to Steve's principle, I should be working on my attitude to others and would solve it all.... or mine is just an exception case and I am unlucky to be surrounded by such colleagues..

[Lychee]

Originally Posted by Gary

I don’t think Steve is saying that unconditional love is unconditional acceptance. At least I didn’t read that in his post.

I think that he is inviting us to look into our own mind when we have criticisms and emotional reactions to other people. He is inviting a level of emotional mastery that not too many people consider, and even fewer attempt. It first requires that we take complete responsibility for all our emotions. And then challenge our self to master creating emotions and thoughts consciously, instead of through reactions.

Consider the case of the co-worker who is always correcting someone even when there is nothing wrong. He might be disrespectful, and even unkind, but in the end who is creating your emotions?

People might be kind, rude, and disrespectful, but if we have judgment of them isn’t that in our own eye?

It is a real mastery to not be offended when others are unkind, rude, and disrespectful, but it can be done.

Hm...so what would be the ideal way to a react of a friend hurts your feelings and disrespects you? Would it be to remain aloof and uncaring of the relationship?

According to Steve, he's saying that if someone disrespects you, you are disrespecting yourself. But it's such a broad concept how will you be able to correct it?

[Scientist]

So, if I'm mad at other people for driving gas-guzzling SUVs, I'm really just mad at myself for not being better at fuel conservation?

If I conserve more fuel, then less people will drive SUVs?

But, it isn't enough for me to just save fuel is it? If I walk more often or get a new job within walking distance, that wouldn't be enough would it?

I would have to intend to use less fuel, I would have to vibrate on the same frequency as the thought of fuel conservation, and hold that vibration in order for it to have any substantial effect?

[Megan]

It's not about fuel, it's about how we connect with people.

When we judge other people, it just adds to the burdens they are already carrying. It's like static in their heads.

What we've done is transfer the static in our heads to their heads, via projection/scapegoating.

When we withdraw judgment, there is a palpable lifting of oppression, and they are more free to behave in resourceful ways.

If we are modeling those higher ways, it potentiates their growth.

I know this whole idea is counterintuitive, but maybe just sit with it awhile, better yet, experiment with it, I would say.

[Gary]

Hm...so what would be the ideal way to a react of a friend hurts your feelings and disrespects you? Would it be to remain aloof and uncaring of the relationship?

According to Steve, he's saying that if someone disrespects you, you are disrespecting yourself. But it's such a broad concept how will you be able to correct it?

For the disrespectful issue

I think it is important to break it down into smaller pieces. You can’t look at an emotional interaction between two people and say one element is “the” issue. Dynamics in our mind and emotions are complex enough. When you add another person you multiply it by about six. (That’s right I said six) But here are a few elements to consider.

1. Someone can disrespect you totally independent of what you do. They are late to meetings as their own habit. They are rude and say unkind things as a matter of their personality. This is their half.

2. We take it personally. We are offended by their behavior and feel hurt. This part is our half. We create it by our interpretations of what their behavior means about us. We react because their behavior doesn’t fit our expectations of how people should treat us or others. Treating our self with this kind of emotional reaction is disrespectful to our self. We are hurting our own emotional body. They didn’t create our emotions.

Our reaction is based in the unseen beliefs of these expectations. With different beliefs and expectations we would have a different emotional reaction. Therefore, our emotions are our half.

3. Not wanting to feel hurt emotionally, we go to defend our self from their hurt. The mechanism to do this is to generate anger which would push them away. This is often how we learned to create boundaries. Anger and frustrations are our creation. Generating anger and treating our emotional body to this experience is not respectful either.

How someone else treats us is one thing. How we create our reaction is a completely separate event. How we react is an indication of how we treat our self.

4. Boundaries are healthy. Anger is a way of forming a boundary. Its roots design is to control another’s behavior through punishment. It’s unconscious and poor logic, but it goes like this; people will treat us better if we punish them with anger when not treating us well.

A boundary can be a good healthy and self respecting thing. When done with anger however it tends to be disrespectful and detrimental to both parties. With conscious awareness we can place boundaries with people who are disrespectful without using anger.

5. How should you react to someone when they are disrespectful??? That depends on whether you can dissolve the taking it personally and the anger reaction. As long as those are in play you choices will be limited.

6. In any case put boundaries there or make adjustments. Someone said earlier, if the person they are meeting is habitually late, leave after ten minutes, or bring a book or invite another friend, or don’t agree to meet them. There are a thousand choices. The change that will make the real difference in your emotions is to drop your expectations of what they should do. That expectation is your half that I assume Steve is writing about. It is your subjective reality of them. It isn’t them.

When you shift the expectation you dissolve the taking it personally and anger reaction. Then you might conclude that their behavior is no big deal. It is no big deal because you no longer create emotional reactions to them. At that point why would you need to go change someone that you aren’t creating emotional reactions about?

7. Create Boundaries. To continually put your self in situations where people disrespect you is disrespecting your self. You can’t always control this. Not reacting may not change another person’s behavior. Sometimes in a job it may not be easy to just quit. If you have to pay rent and feed children you don’t always have the option to stand up to an angry boss or quit. It may take time to create an exit strategy. But in the mean time, you can dissolve the core beliefs and emotional reactions that make up your half of taking it personally.

Placing a boundary with person is a separate element. Your choices in how you do that expand as you clean up your half of the emotional reaction.

In summary. There is how a person treats you. Then there is your reaction. Third, there is the boundary or what you do about it. Each of the three parts has its own subparts of emotions, interpretations, core beliefs and expectations. The way to clean up your half is to do a core belief inventory on it.

Relationships are complex issues. When there is conflict and emotional reactions there isn’t one thing to point to and say, “That is the problem.” It’s some work to break it down and understand who owns what, and what you will do about your half. But at least then you aren’t chasing a symptom.

[Leela]

Fundamentally, I agree with Steve's post. I was familiar with that particular idea before Steve wrote about it and it's something I've practiced with reasonable success.

There has been 1 case thought where it seems to have been detrimental rather than healthy.

I had this friend, let's call her K. To cut a long story short, I think K has a full-blown case of what's called histrionic personality disorder. In other words, she's a major drama queen. The thing is, fundamentally, she is a very insecure person who needs constant reassurance. I believe that she does mean well fundamentally but she is just really draining to be around.

On occasion, I'd meet her and I'd leave feeling really irritated and exhausted. And I'd analyse myself endlessly "what does it say about me that she irritates me so? what is it about me that must change?" etc etc. I thought my inability to tolerate her behaviour said something about me specfically, like I was lacking in empathy or something.

Then I happened upon the book 'Emotional Vampires' which was eerily apt in describing her behaviour and I realised "this isn't about me, this is about her and the fact that she has issues". Then, I met some of her female colleagues at work and got the strong impression that they were all equally irritated by her behaviour.

The conclusion to the story is that I stopped seeing her, I tried to do the 'fade-out' thing but she just got more clingy so eventually I had to get more obvious. I have tried to tell her that it's exhausting listening to the constant litany of complaints and that she should seek professional help but one of the symptoms of HPD is that they will constantly ask you for advice but not listen to anything you say.

The worst thing is that I do care about her and a part of me feels like I'm being a ♥♥♥♥♥ for abandoning her but at the same time, I can't help feeling she was just really unhealthy to be around. I still don't know what all this means or how to reconcile it all.

If your views on another person are actually informed by your views fundamentally on yourself, does that mean I have HPD? That I have HPD traits? If the other person has a personality disorder, does it make this principle null and void? It's all very confusing...

[Angela]

Leela, maybe it's not so much about the person who you say had a personality disorder, but that you attracted a person who presented you with this challenge; you dealt with the challenge by defining your boundaries, and yet the whole relationship still seems to be causing you pain even though it's in the past.

Your encounter with this lady was a great gift for you, one that keeps on giving, and all you have to do is unwrap it. I hope you share what you uncover with us.

(by the way, "histrionic personality disorder"??? Is that for real, because it is very funny. I guess not so funny to the people who deal with it!)

[Megan]

Well, I think of drama as a distraction, so I ask myself what I'm distracting myself from by participating in drama, which I seem to like to do.

See, I think it's not necessarily about things like other people's personality disorders. or fuel usage. With me, I think sometimes it's anything to distract, to stir things up so they don't become too, you know...clear.

Maybe things will seem too *empty* without drama to endlessly analyze (allowing my own responsibility for my life to loom up menacingly), so I either create it, or get tangled up with people who create it for me.

You can't analyze craziness, you can only let it go. You can only let it go if you take 100% responsibility for it.

Yeah, I've read the vampire books too, & it's entertaining to think how those evil others are out to get us.

But it's really never the other person. That's what I keep coming back to.

We all have one mind. That's the secret. Anything anyone else is capable of, I'm capable of also.

It's never the other person. Never. Craziness only comes to us if we're a good 'host.'

Once you decide to take 100% responsibility for the drama in your life, watch how quickly it disappears.

[Scientist]

Originally Posted by Megan

...When we withdraw judgment, there is a palpable lifting of oppression, and they are more free to behave in resourceful ways

If we are modeling those higher ways, it potentiates their growth.

I know this whole idea is counterintuitive, but maybe just sit with it awhile, better yet, experiment with it, I would say.

Thank you for replying.

So, I just need to let go and stop judging people? I need to stop thinking about other people and just focus on how I want myself to be?

My thinking about what other people should or shouldn't do is interfering with what they are doing and not doing? How is it that my thoughts are able to affect other people?

[Lychee]

Originally Posted by Gary

For the disrespectful issue

I think it is important to break it down into smaller pieces. You can’t look at an emotional interaction between two people and say one element is “the” issue. Dynamics in our mind and emotions are complex enough. When you add another person you multiply it by about six. (That’s right I said six) But here are a few elements to consider.

1. Someone can disrespect you totally independent of what you do. They are late to meetings as their own habit. They are rude and say unkind things as a matter of their personality. This is their half.

2. We take it personally. We are offended by their behavior and feel hurt. This part is our half. We create it by our interpretations of what their behavior means about us. We react because their behavior doesn’t fit our expectations of how people should treat us or others. Treating our self with this kind of emotional reaction is disrespectful to our self. We are hurting our own emotional body. They didn’t create our emotions.

Our reaction is based in the unseen beliefs of these expectations. With different beliefs and expectations we would have a different emotional reaction. Therefore, our emotions are our half.

3. Not wanting to feel hurt emotionally, we go to defend our self from their hurt. The mechanism to do this is to generate anger which would push them away. This is often how we learned to create boundaries. Anger and frustrations are our creation. Generating anger and treating our emotional body to this experience is not respectful either.

How someone else treats us is one thing. How we create our reaction is a completely separate event. How we react is an indication of how we treat our self.

4. Boundaries are healthy. Anger is a way of forming a boundary. Its roots design is to control another’s behavior through punishment. It’s unconscious and poor logic, but it goes like this; people will treat us better if we punish them with anger when not treating us well.

A boundary can be a good healthy and self respecting thing. When done with anger however it tends to be disrespectful and detrimental to both parties. With conscious awareness we can place boundaries with people who are disrespectful without using anger.

5. How should you react to someone when they are disrespectful??? That depends on whether you can dissolve the taking it personally and the anger reaction. As long as those are in play you choices will be limited.

6. In any case put boundaries there or make adjustments. Someone said earlier, if the person they are meeting is habitually late, leave after ten minutes, or bring a book or invite another friend, or don’t agree to meet them. There are a thousand choices. The change that will make the real difference in your emotions is to drop your expectations of what they should do. That expectation is your half that I assume Steve is writing about. It is your subjective reality of them. It isn’t them.

When you shift the expectation you dissolve the taking it personally and anger reaction. Then you might conclude that their behavior is no big deal. It is no big deal because you no longer create emotional reactions to them. At that point why would you need to go change someone that you aren’t creating emotional reactions about?

7. Create Boundaries. To continually put your self in situations where people disrespect you is disrespecting your self. You can’t always control this. Not reacting may not change another person’s behavior. Sometimes in a job it may not be easy to just quit. If you have to pay rent and feed children you don’t always have the option to stand up to an angry boss or quit. It may take time to create an exit strategy. But in the mean time, you can dissolve the core beliefs and emotional reactions that make up your half of taking it personally.

Placing a boundary with person is a separate element. Your choices in how you do that expand as you clean up your half of the emotional reaction.

In summary. There is how a person treats you. Then there is your reaction. Third, there is the boundary or what you do about it. Each of the three parts has its own subparts of emotions, interpretations, core beliefs and expectations. The way to clean up your half is to do a core belief inventory on it.

Relationships are complex issues. When there is conflict and emotional reactions there isn’t one thing to point to and say, “That is the problem.” It’s some work to break it down and understand who owns what, and what you will do about your half. But at least then you aren’t chasing a symptom.

Hm, so we should carry expectations ourselves but never for others? If that were the case, how would an employer make sure that the work was getting done by the employees?

I think what you're saying that you have to have expectations set by yourself of how people can treat you. Either you settle for it or don't and if someone violates the boundary that you've set, you let them know. Anger can be the good way to enforce that boundary but caution should be used before doing something that may damage the relationship even further.

But getting upset and keeping that anger doesn't make sense. Recognize your emotion and move on. The purpose of anger isn't for the sake of getting angry, but to recognize an expectation which wasn't met. Am I right? Let it go and focus on being friends with people who do respect you?

[Gary]

I don't think what you are describing as your understanding is at all what I said.