Climate Change (Blog)

[Savage]

Use this thread to discuss the following entry from Steve Pavlina's blog:

Climate Change

[Manomanman]

A member of the media asked during the press conference if the scientists were influenced by the White House to alter their findings. The scientist who answered the question responded, “There was no political pressure for us to change anything in this report. This is about scientific integrity. None of the authors would participate in that kind of a process.”

There is no political pressure for the vast majority of scientists to come to any particular conclusion.

There is, however, pressure from publication outlets to conform to certain standards and to work within certain theoretical paradigms. This may cause a subtle influence on the outcome of the results to lean in a particular direction.

Just look at physics pre-Einstein. Anybody who espoused his ideas prior to his work was laughed at. Then Einstein ushered in a paradigm, and suddenly everything is interpreted in terms of the new theory.

Science = data, nothing more. We can rely on their interpretation of their data, or we can take the conscious path and interpret it for ourselves (like people do on this forum every day). I'm sure they're leaving solar activity out of their model. It's called "willful ignorance."

[Andrew Brunelle]

Steve, this is one of your best articles in awhile. I, as a meat eater, wish that the meat I ate was hunted in the wild instead of being factory farmed because those animals cause so much pollution being cramped together and so many resources go into it. I remember reading in the Omnivore's Dilemma that Michael Pollan actually went hunting for a wild pig and they were actually much more nutritious, albeit more work to eat. I would much rather eat animals from a small, local farm than participate in the factory farm system. So that's what I've started doing. I eat meat about 4-5 times a week, dairy almost every day in my coffee, and hardly ever eat eggs. I feel that if the animal that is being eaten is a healthy animal and has healthy fats in it, it is much better for our health than one of those animals being fed genetically modified corn and soy. This is why even if I do not go vegan, I still do not contribute to factory farming.

I'm not someone who can go vegan, at least not yet. I love the taste of meat too much. Chicken, cow, some fish, it's all delicious and it gives me B12 and protein that I won't get anywhere else unless I eat a pound of greens a day, which frankly is almost impossible at this moment. Eating less meat and more naturally farmed or wild meat could help to an extent, but not to the extent of going vegan. Hopefully someday, I'll at least be able to go vegetarian because at least then I can still have my coffee with half/half and the occasional ice cream.

Great post, Steve. I was waiting for you to cover this topic in greater detail.

[Lena Carpenter]

Originally Posted by Andrew Brunelle

Hopefully someday, I'll at least be able to go vegetarian because at least then I can still have my coffee with half/half and the occasional ice cream.

Hi Andrew. Sorry, this is completely off topic, but have you tried vanilla almond milk or hazelnut milk in your coffee? They are really delicious!

This article is a great extra motivation to get back to vegan!

[tstesen]

I already offered up praise for this post on Twitter but thought I'd mention again how great it was of you to post something of this nature. You have incredible power of suggestion for your readers and I think this is one suggestion we all need to take seriously.

I for one would like to tell my children yes there will something left for you when you're grown up. We are raising the future and I couldn't think of a better gift to give them then the knowledge and tools they need to change what we haven't been able to.

Thanks again Steve!

[Gabo]

Great article on the environmental effects of animal consumption.
Poor article on the nature and cause of global climate change.

I have no doubt that the report Steve mentions and links to is a well conducted piece of scientific evidence, and that the many scientists behind it fully believe their conclusions will be true. However, there are also many scientists standing against the idea that humans are the primary cause of modern climate change. For instance, the Petition Project is a group of over 31,000 American scientists that disagree with the findings of Al Gore and others.

I am glad, at least, that Steve has the sense to be wary of Gore himself and the show he puts on. Al Gore's movie was a tearjerker meant to stir up emotions by molding a scientific subject into a sob story about a former president hungry for political means to his questionable ends.

My recommendation to Steve is to not take sides in the debate over climate change. As you said yourself, you are not an expert in the area. I admit that I'm not either. Because of that, I don't support any particular view on this subject, but rather focus on the important:

Eating a healthy vegetarian or vegan diet, reducing consumption of foreign oil, decreasing air and water pollution, and developing cleaner energy are GOOD for us even if global warming is a farce!

If everyone spent less time bickering over whether climate change is man-made and more time making personal changes to improve their environmental impact in the world, we would be a lot closer to a greener planet.

[ClareDragonfly]

Great post, Steve! I must say I was surprised to see you writing about climate change but I'm certainly glad you did. I didn't expect it to go into veganism but I shouldn't have been surprised about that--I already knew that factory farming is one of the worst things for the environment.

Incidentally, is this report publicly available?

A 2006 United Nations report found that the meat industry produces more greenhouse gases than all the SUVs, cars, trucks, planes, and ships in the world combined

I'm surprised by that statistic and I'd be interested to see it. Though it does make me feel better about the four transatlantic flights I've taken--all since I went vegan!

I knew when I read this post that there would be plenty of angry doubters showing up to clutter the thread. I see a few already. Primo antagonists, Steve

[TimG]

Grilling with gas or charcoal: What’s better for the environment?



Not sure whether to laugh or cry!

[AlanFurth]

Great to see you write on this crucial topic Steve, keep it up.

I agree in general that the world would be a better place if we all significantly reduced our consumption of farm-raised animals, but Im not convinced that reducing our animal consumption is the action we can take on a personal basis that has the biggest impact in terms of saving the environment.

I highly recommend you to check out a marvelous little book available online for free published by David MacKay, Prof. of Physics at the University of Cambridge, "Sustainable Energy Without the Hot Air": David MacKay: Sustainable Energy - without the hot air: Contents

I'd never read a more straightforward, simple, yet well researched and relentlessly fact-based analysis of the issue of the environmental impact of human activity.

As you will see, according to Mac Kay a vegetarian diet has an important impact, but in terms of saving energy, there are other actions that have a more dramatic impact, like driving less, buying less stuff and avoiding packaging.

[Beuford]

"To produce one pound of meat requires, on average, about 5000 gallons of water. Compare that to 25 gallons for a pound of wheat. A vegetarian needs 300 gallons of water per day, while a typical meat-eater needs 4000 gallons. It takes energy to transport all that water too, and this means more greenhouse gas emissions."

I used to read about how much water it takes to make meat, and I found very different results from different websites. Beef is really the killer when it comes to water consumption I found, but I don't think the number is quite 5000 gallons of water for 1 pound of beef. Probably because they use plenty of growth hormones to grow them.

Though still, the difference between a vegeterian and meat eater is still significant in water consumption, but I think you should have been a bit more loose with that estimate.

It is good that you wrote this article hopefully some more people will open their eyes from reading it to one of the main, if not the main, cause of global warming.

[freqincy]

It's not that I disagree with any of the points mentioned in the blog post. Nevertheless I am some kind of annoyed, to be honest. In one of the former posts - I think it was in the cooking recipe - Steve mentioned he'd get almonds from spain, which I think is rediculous when you are raising your finger and remind everyone to do their best to reduce carbondioxide emission.

After all emission is all about energy consumption and whether imported goods are shipped by boat or plane it's a segnificant amount of energy just to enjoy some kind of food.

People who don't wish to eat dead animals are afraid of either dying too early or some kind of cosmic retribution for eating animals they incorrectly think are conscious like they are. Plants and plant products are okay to eat, because they don't have eyes and don't seem to be as conscious as cows and chickens.........how ridiculous.

I don't know why you get that annoyed by choices of other people. I for myself am not afraid of dying too early or cosmic retribution. As a matter of fact, animals happen to have pain perception. I have decided to cause as little pain to any living creature as possible. I do not want to support killing and torturing, not of humans and not of any other species.

[Aleksander Krstic]

This article made me smile, especially the proposition to Al Gore.

[liverpool footballer]

factory-farmed animals emit greenhouse gas
the planes that fly in imported food "emit" greenhouse gas

logic = no eating of imported food/ factory-farmed animals

[Channing]

I agree that having vegatarian or even vegan diet, using less petroleum and being generally lessing polluting is something that we need to do.

The problem that I have with this issue is that it basically is, or is usually promoted as, a fear-based outlook. That means it makes people focus upon their fears and upon what they don't want. It also leads to silly ideas such as the banning of certain types of light bulbs in the EU and Australia. It is some possibly valid problem that is being given a twist in the wrong direction by the agenda of the elites that control the money and mass media.

What Steve does not mention, btw, is that the greatest greenhouse gas is water vapor.

But even if the temperature of the Earth rises somewhat. Is that going to be such a bad thing? Maybe it will happen slowly enough that we will be able to adapt easily. There already was a slightly warmer period during the Middle Ages, which AFAIK, did not cause the world to end. In fact, places like Greenland became habitable, hence the name.

[ssandra]

Very very good and strong article.

I have decided to join the vegitarian group from today on. Working on a better environment is very important to me. I will only eat meat from "biological" farms where animals kan be animals until they get killed. I know it is not great, but I do like my meat to much to give it up completely.

Besides that I think that although being vegan or vegitarian is very good, it is not the last thing or the only thing you should do. Every little bit will help, even if it is just showering for 2 minutes less today, not letting the water run while you brush your teeth, walking to the store or going by bike, having a hybrid car, turning off lights as much as possible, using special light bulbs that last longer and use less energy, not leaving applicances plugged in and on stand by etc.

If sea level rises by up to 3 feet, large portions of Florida and the Gulf of Mexico will be underwater.

Euh.... isn´t the gulf of mexico already under water, with it being a sea and all...

[Xanafax]

Enivronmentalism is the new Communism.

Don't listen to this nonsense. Yes we producea lot of CO2 from these, but you should research how much CO2 is produced during other things, the meat industry suddenly looks pretty puny in comparison. Soy bean fields anyone??

[Beuford]

Xanafax, don't they use the soybeans to feed cows anyway?

[nixxbox]

"It's all so nice and rosy in the vegan world. Come, join us!"

I guess the only problem with vegan diet is that there is scientific evidence that it is unnatural and unhealthy for humans (unless someone can educate me how to get enough calories, proteins, and healthy fats while not eating potatoes, grains, and legumes.)
And no, eating feedlot animals' meat isn't healthy either.
What do we do, then? Hunting seems to be the healthiest option, but if we try to feed 6.5 billion people by hunting wild game, we'll kill all edible mammals in no time.
It is a catch 22, isn't it?
And now, ladies and gentlemen, you have to decide what you're going to eat.
Enjoy your meal!

[James81]

Wow, this post was out of nowhere and doesn't have much to do with personal development at all. lol

I mean, I can agree with you that mass farming of cattle for meat is unethical, but there's no way you are going to tell me it's the number one contributor to greenhouse emissions.

[GranCanaria]

Steve, regarding your climate change post: I think for the first time you are actually wrong. (And yes, you may take that as a compliment. ) Although I do think it is a great idea to reduce our intake of animal products, I don't think humans are to be blamed for global warming.

I am what they call a global warming sceptic. Please allow me to explain why. The climate is always changing. For the past years though, average global temperatures have actually gone down instead of up. The reason: a decrease in the sun's activity. Yes, it's the sun that is responsible for temperature trends, not CO2. (If CO2 were responsible, just consider that the human contribution to annual CO2 production is a only a tiny tiny fraction of CO2 produced by volcanoes, animals and bacteria, rotting vegetation and let's not forget the oceans that cover two thirds of this planet.)

Don't take my word for it. The documentary The Great Global Warming Swindle is a great eye-opener.

Weather channel founder John Coleman and a network of 30,000 scientists are taking Al Gore to court: YouTube - Weather Channel Founder (John Coleman) & 30,000 Scientists Suing Algore

Also think: who might be benefitting from this? It is clear that reducing CO2 emissions will benefit the technologically advanced nations, who will be able to come up with alternative forms to generate energy. It will create lots of jobs. At the same time the CO2 restrictions basically "prohibit" developing nations from developing their economies.

Don't ever trust politicians, Steve, and especially the USA variety. Just don't. They are all in it for their own personal gain.

[MidasGirl]

Originally Posted by nixxbox

It is a catch 22, isn't it?

I think life is a catch-22, period! Naturally speaking, I don't think we can ever escape the paradox that is life. Luckily, its 100 years at best and we're outta here!

Don't plants thrive best when we use animal manure to grow them?

I don't disagree with the atrocity that is the beef industry, (and I am happy that I don't consume beef in particular). But I wonder how much plants would thrive if we, for example got rid of 90% of domestic meat animals. Would they continue to produce healthy nutrients to feed humans healthily? As it is, in most places the soil is depleted of nutrients due to over-farming.........

Nitrogen-rich fertilizer comes mainly from animal urine and feces. Fish-based fertilizers also contain a lot of nitrogen and other valuable nutrients for plants. Nitrogen helps to keep a plant green.

Some fertilizers have phosphorous. Phosphorous type fertilizer comes from ground-up animal bones from slaughterhouses.

Iron-rich fertilizer may have dried animal blood that came from slaughterhouses. Iron is used for plants when there is an abnormal yellowing in the foliage (a sure sign of iron deficiency in plants).

Eating a healthy vegetarian or vegan diet, reducing consumption of foreign oil, decreasing air and water pollution, and developing cleaner energy are GOOD for us even if global warming is a farce!

Agreeeeeed!! I'd just change it to (for me)....or eating meat consciously

[Savage]

Originally Posted by James81

Wow, this post was out of nowhere and doesn't have much to do with personal development at all. lol

You'd prefer another article about how to get out of bed in the morning?

I mean, I can agree with you that mass farming of cattle for meat is unethical, but there's no way you are going to tell me it's the number one contributor to greenhouse emissions.

I just did tell you that. I don't think the words "no way" mean what you think they mean.

What do you believe is the #1 contributor to greenhouse emissions?

[Daffy Duck]

Originally Posted by Steve Pavlina

What do you believe is the #1 contributor to greenhouse emissions?

I think green houses are to blame.

[beautyscientist]

I read Steve's blog because he writes stuff that I can't imagine anyone else writing a lot of the time.

I would say that this particular post though is one that doesn't have Steve's unique take on things. I can imagine a lot of people coming up with something similar. Not that Steve shouldn't have written mind.

I think it is really refreshing to hear what is really the salient point about meat eating, which is that it is energy intensive and probably unsustainable in the long run.

Personally I am a regular eater of meat and I don't plan on stopping altogether but I am painfully aware that the price I pay for my meat doesn't reflect the burden it imposes on the planet. I don't know how long we can continue to eat the amount of meat we eat but I do know that something is going to happen to stop us some time.

Climate change may be the mechanism. I am convinced by the argument that human activity is affecting the climate. But even if this isn't true, eating meat is not in the clear. It will still be a hugely wasteful way to feed people.

Is a vegan diet more healthy? I doubt it personally. But this irrelevant really. We know that vegans remain alive, so it fulfills the basic requirement of any diet. The question is how can we reduce our dependence on meat eating as a society.

[Caledfwlch]

First off, I liked the article because I think its great when Steve explores other topics other than the standard "getting things done", "getting out of bed", etc personal development things. I totally agree that factory farming methods are a major problem in this country and one that needs to be dealt with if we want to slow down climate change. We have to move to much more sustainable methods and decreasing or eliminating the meat from our diets is a great step.

Steve, could you point me to the United Nations report that you referenced saying that agriculture is the largest C02 emitter?

A little searing got me the following data from the International Energy Agency that shows agriculture as 4.7% of the total with the majority coming from Public Electric and Heat Production. I'm sure politics influences these statistics to an extent, but wouldn't the UN also have a bias?


International Energy Agency (IEA)
2001 data: Percent of Carbon Dioxide (CO2) Emissions by Sector

Public Electricity & Heat Production: 42.3 %
Other Energy Industries:4.6%
Manufacturing Industries and Construction: 11.5%
Internal Transportation:30.3%
Residential:7.8%
Other Commercial,Public, and Agricultural Sectors: 4.7%

Source:http://earthtrends.wri.org/pdf_libra.../cli2_2005.pdf

[James81]

Originally Posted by Steve Pavlina

You'd prefer another article about how to get out of bed in the morning?

Yeah, actually. lol

Your personal development stuff is top notch. I'd hate to see you start getting all preachy.

Originally Posted by Steve Pavlina

I just did tell you that. I don't think the words "no way" mean what you think they mean.

What do you believe is the #1 contributor to greenhouse emissions?

Looks to me like it's Power stations.

File:Greenhouse Gas by Sector.png - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[GranCanaria]

Originally Posted by Steve Pavlina

What do you believe is the #1 contributor to greenhouse emissions?

What are greenhouse emissions? Are you referring to something that warms the planet? It's the sun that is resonsible for temperature on earth. Switch the sun off and it gets very cold. Actually, the sun has been dimmed for a while and temperatures have gone down for the past 11 years.

The oceans that cover two thirds of this planet produce a lot of carbon dioxide. Volcanic eruptions are a big contributor too. People only contribute 0.00104 percent of the atmospheric CO2.

Why do so few people question the USA? Why did so many countries blindly follow the USA into war with Iraq? Why do they buy the global warming story?

[nixxbox]

Originally Posted by GranCanaria

The documentary The Great Global Warming Swindle is a great eye-opener.

Thanks for the link. It really is thought-inspiring.

[joylangtry]

This is the UN report that addresses this issue: Livestock's Long Shadow was produced by the Food and Agriculture Organization of the United Nations.

Not sure if that is the reference to which you referred, Steve, but I do believe the info you cited is contained in there.

I'm happy to see your statements on this. I'll add mine, too:

Given the concerns over health insurance and the costs of health care, people miss a huge opportunity if they do not seriously try a plant-based diet. Read The China Study by T. Colin Campbell. Read The Food Revolution by John Robbins.

We have been taught to disconnect from the source of our food. Any of you who say, "I acknowledge that this is true, but I just like to eat meat too much", please consider just how much propaganda and commercial advertising went into that preference.

Most of us have been fed burgers, KFC, Thanksgiving Turkeys, Easter Hams, etc. all our lives, and associate these things with all that is best in American Life. As a mother of grown children, I felt like I was nurturing then in sustaining those traditions.

I'd like to see it be mandatory that every third grade class in the US be taken on a field trip to a slaughterhouse, chicken processing plant or other factory farm. We'd have a new generation of vegans on our hands!

If you find that a horrible idea, then how can you feed your children the products that come out of these places?

OK, enough for now.

Thanks Steve!

[MidasGirl]

I think the big huge elephant in the room that most people don't want to touch is 'population control'. That coupled with the entitlement mentality (read egos) that says I'll consume as much as I can greedily handle, sue me!