Climate Change (Blog)

[Gabo]

Originally Posted by chrisrushton

This article has been the proverbial straw that has convinced me to give vegetarianism a try. 30 Days, I will see what happens. I've been a meat eater all my life and proud of it so this could be a bit of a shock for me. There are a couple of things motivating my massive U turn but this was definitely the final one..

That's great to hear! My advice would be to stock your kitchen with good vegetarian food and get rid of all your meat before you begin. There are plenty of healthy and delicious vegetarian options out there!

[joylangtry]

Originally Posted by chrisrushton

This article has been the proverbial straw that has convinced me to give vegetarianism a try. 30 Days, I will see what happens. I've been a meat eater all my life and proud of it so this could be a bit of a shock for me. There are a couple of things motivating my massive U turn but this was definitely the final one.

I just can't quite face giving up meat cheese and butter in one day but in 30 days time I might just kick them to the curb as well.

Good for you! There are so many excellent resources these days, you should have no trouble finding info and recipes. Enjoy!

[nin64]

I thought that this thread would reach 3 pages in around 3 days. I guess I was a little off.
I knew this kind of things would induce serious debates, just visit health boards if you want to know why I made that prediction.

Kind of troublesome really, to eat meat. Too much stuffs to do. Too much time needed. Too much energy wasted.
Hunting? Yeah, right. I doubt that you have the patience for your prey to fall into your traps.

Article remind me of one of The Simpsons episode where Homer his family and his gangs eating buffaloes and Lisa keep on objecting their actions. In the end all of them were saved by the apples which Lisa have planted. Yeah, apples are easy prey, crunchy and delicious too. Too bad I can't grow it here.

Anyway, cool story bro.

[Hyperchiller]

I've got a few words to this.

CORRELATION DOES NOT IMPLY CAUSATION.

Just because the Earth seems to be warming by scientific reports does not mean us humans are causing this warming. I've done a bit of research into this and found that a few scientists found that not only is the Earth increasing in temperature, but other planets in the Solar System are increasing in temperature. I don't have any sources of this on hand so do your own research.

How the hell do you explain that?

I think it is possible that the warming is caused by factors that are external to the Earth. Ok so the scientists are looking at factors on this planet. What about variables that are related to outer space? Are we actually entering into a special part of the Milky Way that is increasing the energy of our Solar System? What is going on outside of Earth?

I agree that the Earth is warming. I also agree that humans have some influence. But are we having a large influence? IT IS possible that we are not.

However, I do agree that we should take care of the environment regardless. Going vegan is definitely one way for each individual to take this problem into their own hands. It's absolutely ridiculous that whole forests have to be paved away for farmland to grow food FOR livestock which we eventually eat. If we didn't eat so much damn meat we wouldn't be cutting down so many forests.

If people understood that link, maybe more people would be eating less meat.

[TimG]

The question of where people can make the biggest impact is very individual. In other words, the 80/20 is different for all of us. Depends where you live, what your current habits are etc.

Where I live, coal-fired electricity generation is the single biggest contributor to per capita emissions, not agriculture. Where you live, it is probably different.

That said, I think 80/20 is not enough in this case.

Are we only prepared to put in a 20% effort on global warming?

[JSB]

I doubt that we will see widespread adoption of veganism in the Western world anytime soon; meat is just to common, too well-liked, and too much a part of the culture.

I'm not even convinced that a vegan or vegetarian diet is always the healthiest option for everyone (though it probably is for some), but I'm sure most people would benefit from eating a lot less meat -- perhaps a few times per week instead of multiple times per day.

[mojoman]

IMHO the "Climate Change/Global Warming - believer or denialist" white noise played out in the media masks what should be the real concern - what happens when the Earth's finite resources are used up?

[Milena]

So... I find this interesting...

Since humans are supposedly at fault for global warming, we must become eco-friendly in order to save the world.

Or we must become vegan to stop animal suffering.

I personally think that my lifestyle should be 'eco-friendly' so I'm not wasting resources. Not because there's a limited quantity, but because I want a sort of minimalist existence. And I think that I should be vegan (raw foodist) because eating that diet makes my body feel good.

And so I have my personal (liberal?) beliefs. But I also have my own reasons. I'm astonished by these mass-movements to get people to change their behavior because someone (Al Gore or PETA) gave you enough evidence. And isn't it just crazy that for every theory you have scientists providing evidence for the anti-theory? I'm gonna go watch 'The Great Global Warming Swindle' now. Thanks a lot for the link.

[nixxbox]

Originally Posted by joylangtry

And it still supports Steve's points in his post, for the most part.

It certainly doesn't support the point that vegan diet is the healthiest diet there is.

[chrisrushton]

Originally Posted by Hyperchiller

I've got a few words to this.

CORRELATION DOES NOT IMPLY CAUSATION.

Just because the Earth seems to be warming by scientific reports does not mean us humans are causing this warming. I've done a bit of research into this and found that a few scientists found that not only is the Earth increasing in temperature, but other planets in the Solar System are increasing in temperature. I don't have any sources of this on hand so do your own research.

How the hell do you explain that?

I think it is possible that the warming is caused by factors that are external to the Earth. Ok so the scientists are looking at factors on this planet. What about variables that are related to outer space? Are we actually entering into a special part of the Milky Way that is increasing the energy of our Solar System? What is going on outside of Earth?

I agree that the Earth is warming. I also agree that humans have some influence. But are we having a large influence? IT IS possible that we are not.

I'm an astrophysicist (working on a doctorate in star formation now) and I'm pretty sure that's unlikely to be the case. It's true that the sun works in cycles but the fluctuations in global temperatures measured (for example) in ice cores over the course of the earth's "life" are small compared to what we have seen over the last 50 or so years. 50 years is very short in an astronomical sense, less than the blinking of an eye. The universe is 1000000000 years old (ish) so 50 years is a fraction of a fraction of a fraction of a percent. We are talking a massive coincidence and thats shaky ground.

Venus heats up because it has greenhouse gasses. It is closer to the sun so hotter on the surface and means that many lighter gasses evaporate off the surface. The heat makes volcanoes more active and the surface chemistry is different. The net result is more greenhouse gasses are emitted but cannot be fixed in rocks in the way that they can be on earth. Earth will end up like Venus if greenhouse gasses are not taken under control, that is a fact. Not in my lifetime but it would be inevitable. I've not seen any research about any other planet temperatures.

Either way, if humans are the cause or not, we are still pumping out plenty of greenhouse gasses and should cut back on them. They aren't good for the world in the long run, even if they aren't the cause of the short term spike in global temperature we are seeing at the moment.

By the way, if you want to make scientific claims, you really should present a source to back them up. Not being snotty, but it looks like you just made it up if you don't.

[Beuford]

Well regardless if our lifestyle is the cause of global warming or not, I definitely agree with people who have said that we need to take care of our planet anyway. Even if we aren't the cause of global warming, let's try not to turn our home in to a dump Less meat on our plates and less fossil fuel usage.

[run_fly]

Originally Posted by chrisrushton

This article has been the proverbial straw that has convinced me to give vegetarianism a try. 30 Days, I will see what happens. I've been a meat eater all my life and proud of it so this could be a bit of a shock for me. There are a couple of things motivating my massive U turn but this was definitely the final one.

I just can't quite face giving up meat cheese and butter in one day but in 30 days time I might just kick them to the curb as well.

If you need any help trying the 30day trial give me an email: chrislandryfly@gmail.com

I have been vegan for a year now and I made that transition

[joylangtry]

Originally Posted by nixxbox

It certainly doesn't support the point that vegan diet is the healthiest diet there is.

I don't really think that "the point that vegan diet is the healthiest diet there is" was stated specifically in the article or this thread, though perhaps implied.

Maybe the paleo diet is better for some people, and I would offer appreciation to anyone taking that choice, as it does eliminate beef & pork from the diet, and that is a good step in the context of the OP.

Diet is so much like religion to many people. For me, I adopted a vegan diet in Sept of 2007 when enough evidence and information convinced me that it was worth a 30-day trial. I went from a final fast-food cheeseburger on 9/23, to eating up the last of the fish in the freezer on 9/24, to intending completely vegan on 9/25. With occasional bumps along the way, it's a permanent change for me.

I did a 30 day trial with my husband, and I'm really glad we went straight to vegan, as the changes were mind-boggling. By the end of 3 weeks, we were completely convinced that this was the way to go.

I did this specifically for health and nutrition, but as I learned more and more, I'm psyched about the side effects of environmental friendliness and Animal Rights. I'm also aware that some would take offense at my calling Animal Rights a side effect. Whatever. Any reason that a person has for embracing a plant-based way of eating is fine in my book.

I think it's awesome that chrisrushton is trying a 30 day veg trial, and I trust that there will be others finding this article or discussion the tipping point, others who may never post here. For that reason more than any other, I'm thrilled that Steve posted this article.

[Plato]

Truth hurts. I'm seeing a lot of resistance in this thread. We can't get enough of the happy happy world of quick fix personal development (early rising, et al).

I know Steve doesn't write with the intention of quick fixes but that is what a lot of people (myself included often enough) read. When Steve talks about the benefits of personal growth we don't think about slow long term gradual imrpovement. We think "Oooh, a new fantasy to occupy my head space for 2 days and fill me with the hope I can live for ever and ever without ever putting in any effort, ever again, and life will be a wonderful dreammm..."

I know by making it sound so ridiculous we all go "Nah, not me, that's absurd"... but go on, admit it. We read Steve Pavlina not because we are looking for strategic, sustainable (A.K.A. smart) growth and development. We read his articles because they give us hope that we don't have to suffer any more. They point to a brighter future... unfortunately one that is pure fantasy. Here and now is where it's at. Growth isn't always visible and that can be distressing. We want it to be dramatic and climactic, and go whiz pop, with a nice burst of Existential pleasure.

I think if we are all being honest, there is little hope of the environmental problem being reversed. In a way I'm really glad we have this issue. What could be a better legacy to future generations than a defiled world? It screams "This is what the quick fix mentality does!"

Future generations are going to have the privilege of a constant reminder to grow and take care of the world. They're also going to have the fun challenge of trying to survive in some really funky conditions.

The perspective I choose is that this isn't disaster. A bit of healthy self destruction is exactly what we need. After that we can get on with the long, pleasurable and strenous path of mastery.

[theknightwhosaysni-NI]

Wow, I have you on Google's first page for the keyword climate change, congrats, if it stays there the article is going to have a huge positive impact.

Now is an important time to put pressure on decision makers about climate change because the coming conference on climate in Copenhagen in December 2009 will be a key moment in the future of our planet.

If major decisions are taken during this conference, it will positively impact on climate change.
Due to the delay between the moment a decision is taken and the moment we start to see its effects, we really have to take decisions right now.

If world decision makers can't arrive on an agreement in Copenhagen, it will again delay the change we could make, but if they find some consensus and decide to act now, I believe humanity can effectively stop the current trend.

[MasterD]

There is more wrong with Al Gore than just the fact that he eats animal products.

You are aware of the fact that he switches cause and effect in his movie An Inconvenient Truth? CO2 concentration in the air follows temperature, not the other way around. Just that tiny piece of purposefully misinforming the public made the whole movie worthless to me.

Further, if if you are such a proponent of a healthier climate and better usage of resources, please don't live in a 20 room home and produce an electricity bill of 20 times the national average.

To me he comes across as a complete hypocrite.

[Milena]

Originally Posted by GranCanaria

Don't take my word for it. The documentary The Great Global Warming Swindle is a great eye-opener.

Oh man. So I'm watching this documentary right, and I feel bad because I think one of those anti-capitalist anti-industrialists that they're talking about. I know I should probably open a new thread for this, but does anyone have any thoughts on industrialism having a negative impact on us (aside from hurting the environment) ??

[Gabo]

Originally Posted by chrisrushton

It's true that the sun works in cycles but the fluctuations in global temperatures measured (for example) in ice cores over the course of the earth's "life" are small compared to what we have seen over the last 50 or so years.

According to ice core data, the earth's global temperatures have been higher than today's temperatures in at least 4 periods within the last 500,000 years. (See http://www.sierraclub.ca/national/pr...k-ice-core.jpg)

The number that has increased in recent times is CO2 concentration in the atmosphere, which is currently about 25% higher than it ever has been (370ppm in 2002 vs. ~300ppm 320,000 years ago). As someone else already pointed out, CO2 changes are a natural effect of temperature fluctuation, not the other way around. While you are correct that we would "end up like Venus" if CO2 continues to increase, we certainly have a LONG way to go.

The atmosphere of Venus is 960,000ppm (96%) versus our current 370ppm (0.37%). Human emissions have contributed to just 70ppm (0.07%) increase in the concentration of CO2 in our atmosphere over natural limits.

[Liveformx64]

Even if we could prove beyond the shadow of a doubt that humans had no play in the warming of our sphere, that changes nothing to the fact that we need very quickly curtail our consumption.

There may be a question to the degree of our influence thus far, but we definitely WILL have an impact on the planet if we keep it up.

The average American way of life is not sustainable, plain and simple.

[Daffy Duck]

Originally Posted by bigadam

This sentence is confusing. I've yet to meet a vegetarian that drinks 300 gallons of water per day. I'm sure death would follow.

Might be referring to the ultimate amount of water that person uses. Not drinks.

[Andrew Michaels]

Steve and others.

While I completely agree that giving up meat is a tremendous thing everyone should do for their health and the planet, where the environmental benefits of eating really become interesting is when we switch away from grains to a fruit-based diet.

If we replaced our fields of grains with orchards, not only would we be not adding large amounts of C02 to the atmosphere via animals, but we'd be absorbing it, we'd start adding to the topsoil layer instead of reducing it, and our major water problems would be considerably reduced.

Check out this article: Save The Environment: How What You Eat Changes The World.

[Gabo]

Originally Posted by Andrew Michaels

Check out this article: Save The Environment: How What You Eat Changes The World.

Great article Andrew!
And also, great website for raw food info!

Thanks!

[Inthon]

Originally Posted by Steve Pavlina

For me this is a human issue, not a political one. This is about making conscious choices as individuals.

Bingo. This is why I frequent this website.

[bigadam]

Originally Posted by Daffy Duck

Might be referring to the ultimate amount of water that person uses. Not drinks.

I knew that's what he was saying. Just letting him know the sentence is a little clunky. He actually changed it on his blog post.

Steve's an amazing writer. I'm just pointing out typos to help, not criticize.

How can I now delete my typos post since the typos have been corrected? Is that possible? Maybe a mod can delete it please. And this one too.

[Alex Wu]

I went vegan after reading The China Study. It was written by a scientist who has spent his whole life doing health research on diet. He grew up on a dairy farm, and believed (like most people) that dairy, meat and eggs are good for you. He winds up advocating for a primarily vegan, whole foods diet.

There are a lot of "opinions" out there about veganism and diet, but honestly, do some homework and give it a 30 day trial to see how you feel. Personally, I've seen a small boost in my energy level, I'm sleeping a little better, and my digestive system is almost 100% regular now. I also rarely feel heavy after a meal. After 6 months on a vegan diet I still have a lot to learn but so far, so good. It's certainly helped to be part of a vegan community that provides support, friends, potlucks and other social gatherings that reinforces my motivation to stay on the diet.

I get a lot of flack for being vegan, including from my boyfriend for whom anti-vegan jokes are perennial ammunition. I just say, that if you want to comment on the vegan diet, do some real research, and try it out for yourself before making remarks such as "humans need protein", or "you can't get [insert nutrient] from vegetables", or "we have canines so we should eat meat", etc. which usually show a lack of homework and generally reflect a lot of social conditioning and basically no motivation to make any positive diet changes.

[Daffy Duck]

Originally Posted by bigadam

I knew that's what he was saying.

Oh I see. Cool.

Feel free to leave your posts. Up to you.

[jamesbiz]

Well after reading the climate change article, I'm glad to come on here and find out I'm not the only one that had a bad taste in my mouth. No we don't need more " how to be a morning person" but this isn't my idea of personal development either. I recommend a lot of people to his blog, and most of the people I know will run at that first site of anything having to do with global warming. No need to use the sugar coated new terminology the PR department thought up of. They are saying our globe is warming, there for it's global warming. That way people will be able to remember the global cooling trend that happened a few decades ago. This article just does not seem like a positive type of article that would come out of stevse mouth. All these global warming treats are fear tactics, and fear does not belong in our minds. If you want more people to be vegan, then that's great. I'm cool with that. Please just don't use fear mongering propaganda to do it. You are telling us meat eaters that we are damning the planet. I drive a V8 muscle car so I guess I'm even worse. This is no better then religion using hell to get people to do things the way they want. If you want people to be vegan, then tout the POSITIVE aspects of the life. Not the negative aspects of the opposite life. So many times you've mentioned in your blog about positive affirmations. How is this a positive affirmation? You wanna fight meat eaters, then guess what. You'll just create more meat eaters. As cliche as it might be, I might as well use mother Teressa quote.

I was once asked why I don't participate in anti-war demonstrations. I said that I will never do that, but as soon as you have a pro-peace rally, I'll be there.

Not everyone has the type of metabolism to where they can be vegan. This is not right for you to put this kind of guilt on people. Just because the goverment or scientist says something, does not make it true. You've said it your self that you are no expert on this matter. So why bother talking about something you aren't an expert on? You are brilliant and can figure out the inner workings of our minds better then anyone I've ever read. Please stick with what you are amazing at, and stay away from things that way to many of us are ignorant about. We came here to listen to you speak about what you know well. I truly hope this isn't the direction you are taking this blog. This is YOUR blog and we are only guests and I know we have no say in it. I also know that you respect other peoples views, and you use us as ( in your own words) " your beta testers". I hope that you view our response for what they are. The people responding are your loyal readers. I've been reading it for over a year now. I can honestly say that you saved me from completely destroying my self 1 year and 5 months ago and I have nothing but gratitude for you in that regard. I'm not going away, and will continue to read your archive, but it doesn't mean that my self or your other loyal readers will stay on course reading what you write if this continues. Scaring people does nothing but create more sheep to follow. I'm coming at this whole thing exactly the way you would have from what I have read about you. I hope that has not changed.

[James81]

I know one thing's for sure, I'm certainly not noticing any increase in temperatures in my area. Seems like around here the winters are getting colder and the summers are getting cooler.

I mean, it's July and it's like 65 degrees outside right now. I can't remember a July when the temperature go below like 80. Except for this year and last year.

[jamesbiz]

Originally Posted by James81

I know one thing's for sure, I'm certainly not noticing any increase in temperatures in my area. Seems like around here the winters are getting colder and the summers are getting cooler.

I mean, it's July and it's like 65 degrees outside right now. I can't remember a July when the temperature go below like 80. Except for this year and last year.

Eh, I don't know if you can use that as a reason tho. Climate changes are not always the same globally. I live in florida, and it has been getting hotter. I don't remember it ever being this hot. At the same time tho, so many other people are experiencing no change, or even opposite change. There are to many elements in play effecting everything around us. Then we have sources outside of this planet to contend with which people have not even started to put into the equation. Water currents change, which is why it gets hotter some places and colder in others. Is the globe warming? I don't see why anyone would say otherwise. Is it going to hurt us or is it something that WE can control? No one has proven that thus far, or in my opinion even come close. Our little tiny spec of dirt we call America is nothing compared to the other developing nations.

By the way. It's ironic because global warming is supposed to make for worse weather, yet... I live in florida and the more they tout global warming, the less hurricanes we seem to experience. Try to explain that one.

[Hyperchiller]

Originally Posted by chrisrushton

I'm an astrophysicist (working on a doctorate in star formation now) and I'm pretty sure that's unlikely to be the case. It's true that the sun works in cycles but the fluctuations in global temperatures measured (for example) in ice cores over the course of the earth's "life" are small compared to what we have seen over the last 50 or so years. 50 years is very short in an astronomical sense, less than the blinking of an eye. The universe is 1000000000 years old (ish) so 50 years is a fraction of a fraction of a fraction of a percent. We are talking a massive coincidence and thats shaky ground.

Venus heats up because it has greenhouse gasses. It is closer to the sun so hotter on the surface and means that many lighter gasses evaporate off the surface. The heat makes volcanoes more active and the surface chemistry is different. The net result is more greenhouse gasses are emitted but cannot be fixed in rocks in the way that they can be on earth. Earth will end up like Venus if greenhouse gasses are not taken under control, that is a fact. Not in my lifetime but it would be inevitable. I've not seen any research about any other planet temperatures.

Either way, if humans are the cause or not, we are still pumping out plenty of greenhouse gasses and should cut back on them. They aren't good for the world in the long run, even if they aren't the cause of the short term spike in global temperature we are seeing at the moment.

By the way, if you want to make scientific claims, you really should present a source to back them up. Not being snotty, but it looks like you just made it up if you don't.

I'm definitely not a scientist but I did physics and chemistry in senior high school. So I base a lot of my claims on claims other scientists have made, as I have not personally discovered myself that any other planets are indeed getting warmer.

If you do a bit of research - I just googled solar system heating up and you will find quite a bit of info.

Sun Blamed for Warming of Earth and Other Worlds | LiveScience

Global Warming on Mars, Pluto, Triton and Jupiter

The Whole Solar System is Undergoing Global Warming., page 1