Attraction (Blog)

[Steve Pavlina]

Use this thread to discuss the following entry from Steve Pavlina's blog:

Attraction

[Elfwing]

It was very synchronistic to see this for me. I've felt naturally attracted that way to somebody before, and though the relationship went downhill, we just clicked. It was amazing while it happened. I remember a woman coming up to us in a spiritual store and commenting that we were like blue and orange, we balanced and complemented each other. I wish we could be close friends again, but she's keeping her distance and I'll respect that. For now, at least, our time's over.

Years later, when we met up to go to an event, it was like we'd never been apart. Even now, we're similar in core attributes - she's grown and matured, and I have as well. (I still have a long way to go, though, and I always will. ) At the same time, we're complete opposites in other regards. She has great grades, I abhor school. She has a lot of friends, I don't. She's bubbly, I'm quite shy (except around her).

I hope I manage to experience more things like this. You're right - similarities are boring.

Strangely enough, I have a current online friendship that's similar, but in a different way - if that makes sense. We constantly aggravate each other, but we can't stop talking to each other. I don't feel like I click with him, but I still marvel that we can't seem to leave each other. I don't miss him when he's gone, but we still manage to keep talking.

[Bliss Sage]

Interesting post.

I used to want a man who was opposite to me, but "opposite to me" means practical and grounded in this world, which meant that they were so practical and grounded that they didn't like me. Such men were also so "hard" and unfeeling, or hard-hearted (or judgmental with these "rules") that I didn't feel safe being myself with them. They didn't understand me and thus didn't appreciate me either. I just go into a shell when faced with people like that, and also when faced with people, like extroverts, who don't "make space" for me. I found that men who are more sensitive and "soft" and less intellectual make a safe environment for me to be myself and to be free. Unfortunately, though, their qualities are not ideal for a love relationship for me. So I still haven't found the right combination in a man.

[seeker5]

When I read the description of ISFP, I also note that it’s a good description of the types of women I feel most naturally attracted to. Erin isn’t an ISFP, but she does have many ISFP qualities, especially sensitivity and loyalty. (When I asked Erin what type she was, she couldn’t recall, but I remember it wasn’t my exact opposite.)

Erin's personality is ENFJ

[munish]

Originally Posted by Steve Pavlina

Use this thread to discuss the following entry from Steve Pavlina's blog:

Attraction

As someone said.

Women like those guys ,who don't care what they(women) like.-)

Opposite attracts.

[Holistic Star]

How funny. My husband is ENTJ and I'm and ENFP. Similar dynamic.

It's a combination that works because we are similar enough to appreciate the extrovert intuitive side of each other, but different enough that there is space for learning and understanding. Yes I'm the messy one too, he's the neat one. I was hoping his neatness might rub off on me, but it hasn't worked yet!

John Demartini says the purpose of a relationship isn't happiness, it is growth. You attract in a partner the denied parts of yourself. So Steve, you attracted Erin because you wanted to own the loving parts of yourself. Erin was attracted to Steve because she wanted to own the confidence parts of herself etc.
The annoying things about your partner are always aspects that you need to accept in yourself.
You then have children and they embody any additional aspects that you as a couple still need to accept and own so you get even more growth.

Isn't it great that growth is the default way of being!

[roxyruby]

I loved this post I guess it resonated with me alot because of the experiences I've had.

A guy of "stereotypical" desirability didn't really do it for me long term.

A few years ago I manifested the "perfect" boyfriend. He was tall, handsome, made good money as a chef, I went out with him for a week or so, mainly I couldn't cope with having a relationship at that time though because of very bad social anxiety disorder I had at the time, I only saw him twice I think & with a girlfriend with me. It also broke up cause this other guy was really jealous & although he was being a jealous jerk I actually ended up with him and he's my boyfriend right now!

You see this other guy who had been my friend for a long time (and we had naturally started flirting and found out we were very compatible sexualy!) I think thats the difference....No other guy turns me on sexually as much as he does, and its the same the other way around.

And, we are also best friends, and sometimes have discussions all night long. He is not amazingly handsome in a stereotypical way but I have all the feelings I need when I'm with him. But it is good that he is taller & bigger than me ^ ^
And yes we DO help eachother grow.

I feel like most people would be jealous of the relationship we have...

He actually helps me so much with the social anxiety. He tells me strongly "but why would you care what other people think?" And just everything that I need to hear.

Contrast it to my mother and fathers relationship. It seems to me that my mother sort of married my dad just to fulfil expectations in her family, or because she wanted a guy with a stable job that she could get money off.

It just seems to me like natural attraction wasn't the case, and because of that there is not really any love or romance between them.

So I think the most important things for a successful relationship is NOT stereotypicaly desireable traits, but 1. Friendship (common interests, you could talk for hours etc) 2. Sexual compatibility (do you turn eachother on heaps? have similar sex drive? similar fantasies?) 3. Love- do you feel in love with them? Wanna cuddle up to them and kiss them while saying I love you? Lol

Well those are the three things I think.... If you want a friend...then you only need the first one, if you just want a sexual partner, then u need the second one & could also have first with it.

Ofcourse me and my bf are very different in ways... I like flowers, peace, relaxation, cute animals, pretty things LOL he likes wierd alien things, He is more atheist while I'm more agnostic & new age, and all "guyish" sorta stuff i guess.. oh yeah he is like "**** authority and rules" but I have a different mindset

he does have a soft side though...I can make him cry if he thinks I'm gonna break up with him or he's gonna loose me! But even then he's ashamed of crying, prob cause of that strong masculine stereotype

[James81]

This is a great post. (Was this spurred by your reviewing of David DeAngelo's products? haha)

Not enough people in the PUA/dating world give this particular perspective, though, and I appreciate that you are able to see beyond the BS and present the situation in the way it is.

I read a book a couple of years (it's a free ebook from an online forum called "The Book of Pook"....google it if you are interested...it's on a webpage called jbspencer I think) that presented this same sort of perspective to the guys (the book was for men struggling with women) and he encouraged men to stop focusing on using tips and tricks to get women and just go out and live their lives, build their own worlds, and be men. I loved it and I still try to live by a lot of the principles that are in that book today.

Seems like the search for compatibility has become a lost art in the dating world. Everybody seems to think that they can just get with someone and change them instead of using dating as a trial and error, weeding out process.

But this was a post I needed to read today and I agree wholeheartedly with you.

[rozoweskarpetki]

In the MBTI system you get your "opposite" if you reverse the two middle letters rather than all four. The idea behind MBTI is that we can sort of generalize that there are four ways to take in information from our environment and four ways to make decisions based on the information we gather. All people can use all of these, but everyone will have their preferences.

The order of preference for an ENTJ is:

1. Extraverted Thinking
2. Introverted Intuition
3. Extraverted Sensing
4. Introverted Feeling
5. Introverted Thinking
6. Extraverted Intuition
7. Introverted Sensing
8. Extraverted Feeling

So the opposite of this is an ESFJ:

1. Extraverted Feeling
2. Introverted Sensing
3. Extraverted Intuition
4. Introverted Thinking
5. Introverted Feeling
6. Extraverted Sensing
7. Introverted Intuition
8. Extraverted Thinking

For Erin, as an ENFJ, it would be:

1. Extraverted Feeling
2. Introverted Intuition
3. Extraverted Sensing
4. Introverted Thinking
5. Introverted Feeling
6. Extraverted Intuition
7. Introverted Sensing
8. Extraverted Thinking

So I guess we could conclude that the way you take in information is very similar (all the perceiving functions are in exactly the same positions for ENTJs and ENFJs), but the way you arrive at decisions and opinions is vastly different (the judging functions are in completely opposite positions).

[Steve Pavlina]

I should mention that when Erin and I first met, I was actually INTJ. Somewhere along the way, that shifted to ENTJ.

As I wrote in my book, I agree it's good to have some similarities for the basis of a good connection, and the differences are there to fuel growth.

If you're too similar, there's no growth. If you're too different, there's no connection.

Similarity-wise, Erin and I are both trekkies and are going to see the new Star Trek movie in IMAX today.

[Vermilion Sparrow]

It was this line that got me: "The nice thing about improving through a relationship (as opposed to improving for a relationship) is that you get to enjoy life with your very best personal coach at your side. Instead of growing to get the relationship, you experience growth because of the relationship."

That line describes exactly what I've always known, what I've always wanted for myself. I've spent the last decade spinning my wheels because I feel like I can't start my life without someone to share it with.

I'm 28 years old, and every time I have felt a strong attraction to someone, they have not shared it, with only two exceptions. The first was a much older man who was in the middle of a divorce at the time. I expressed my feelings about desiring to grow in a relationship, and he said he couldn't feel any emotional attachment to someone who wasn't a "whole person" yet, whatever that means. The second was someone whose life was in shambles at the time, and he latched on to the fact that I wanted my own child and he already had two kids and didn't want to make his "freedom date" any later than it already was (also, lots of negative energy there--I still talk to him, and he's sorted things out a bit since then, but if he'd still have me it'd be a big compromise).

By now I have to face the fact that I am nearly 30, and my dreams of finding a companion to grow and share with in any formative way are practically nil. Sure, if I ever do find someone it can still be meaningful, but it doesn't seem like I can have someone help me grow in the beautiful way that I always wanted, because by my age everyone already expects a "whole person" (again, whatever that means). I hate doing it all on my own; I spend more time lost and confused than anything else, but I'm beginning to realize that if I don't start to grow on my own, I probably won't do it.

And then I got this far into writing this and forgot what my point was going to be. Oh well.

[Steve Pavlina]

Originally Posted by Vermilion Sparrow

By now I have to face the fact that I am nearly 30, and my dreams of finding a companion to grow and share with in any formative way are practically nil. Sure, if I ever do find someone it can still be meaningful, but it doesn't seem like I can have someone help me grow in the beautiful way that I always wanted, because by my age everyone already expects a "whole person" (again, whatever that means). I hate doing it all on my own; I spend more time lost and confused than anything else, but I'm beginning to realize that if I don't start to grow on my own, I probably won't do it.

Smack!

Stop abusing your power. You're using your age as an excuse for starters.

"practically nil" + "everyone already expects" + "I hate" + "time lost" + "confused" = your statements of intent. This is what you're creating right now.

You might as well grab a whip and start flogging yourself.

What do you want? What do you desire? What do you want to create?

The surest way to attract more of what you don't want is to complain about it.

You're better than this. Stop repelling love.

[munish]

Originally Posted by Steve Pavlina

So instead of choosing partners that we actually want, we get caught up in judgments that cause us to rule them out.

“My parents won’t like him.”

“He’s too short and too bald.”

“She doesn’t have the same hobbies I do.”

“My friends would make fun of me if I went out with him.”

]

I would like to add here.

Originally Posted by Steve Pavlina

if I saw a woman eat a piece of animal flesh, it would gross me out, and I'd probably consider her unkissable.
]

And i would never go on a date with someone ,who is not atleast a vegan.

[footprints]

Are you in my head, Steve? Normally I'm a lurker, but I couldn't NOT comment on the synchronicity of this article apprearing today.

Because this morning as I lay in bed thinking about my day, I prayed/intended to know why on earth I am so incredibly attracted to a particular person. She is nothing like me; we have nothing in common; she is beautiful, but there are many other beautiful women out there. Basically I was asking WTF is going on here? .

And then I read this post! Talk about intention-manifestation! You have explained it all - not just my attraction to her, but down to describing us both almost exactly.

I am an INFP, quiet, sensitive, a bit of a hippy and quite a bit like your description of Erin. The woman who I'm attracted to is very much like you - very organised, authoritative, confident, decisive etc etc. In other words, the complete opposite of me, and not even someone I would usually expect to get along that well with.

However, I've noticed that I do tend to be attracted to powerful, confident, decisive women and I thought that I would have to change myself in order for someone like that to be interested in me. You have opened my eyes to the possibility that she or someone else could like me BECAUSE I am their opposite.

You wrote: "First, attraction helps to align you with truth. Attraction teaches you to let go of falsehood and denial and to practice acceptance. Can you talk about your attractions openly, even if it means others might reject your preferences? Are you ashamed of those you find attractive? Or can you accept this part of yourself completely and without judgment?" just consider my mind completely blown, because this is exactly where I am in my life as I come to terms with being bisexual/gay. Is this why she is in my life, to teach me acceptance of myself and who I find attractive?

Whatever the reason, I'm so grateful that she is in my life, whatever the outcome.

I assumed that we were a little awkward around each other because she finds me unbelievably ditsy and chaotic. But perhaps she is just madly attracted to me without knowing why, as well I think she is 100% straight, but you at least give me hope.

[munish]

Originally Posted by Vermilion Sparrow

By now I have to face the fact that I am nearly 30, and my dreams of finding a companion to grow and share with in any formative way are practically nil.

May be you should read and listen to this one,by a pick up artist.

Watch Sean Stephenson on Jimmy Kimmel

[staceyterry]

Thank you Steve...

That one hit like a train.

I'm still in the midst of processing my last relationship. It was a confusing one for us both. Personality wise, we are quite different. I actually laughed when you mentioned how when Erin leaves a kitchen it's like a tornado leaves the room. I used to do that too, open cupboards and drawers everywhere. It became one of our jokes. Actually, I can see many similarities between myself and Erin (great at being empathetic, kind and loving, but needing lots of encouragement to be brave and confident) and you and my ex (very logical, able to set and achieve goals, rolls eyes at "butterflies and kittens").

Right from the start, I had a strong attraction to this man. But I also had a lot to gain from him. No other person has helped me grow as much as he. And he continues to be my most supportive friend. Oh boy... here come the water works just thinking about it.

The falling short seemed to be in what I had to offer him. I have to admit I have problems loving myself, but I always had the sense or feeling that I loved him, and I expressed that love to him whenever I could. I still do. They say you can't love someone else until you love yourself first, so maybe some would say I didn't really love him. But I have always valued his company... I look forward to each chance I have to see him or to talk to him. And even though our relationship ended, I guess I still think the sun shines out his ass, to quote the movie Juno. He also introduced me to you! How could I not love him for that!

But even though we had a great relationship in many respects, for him, a natural bodily attraction to me just wasn't there. We had long, open talks about it. They were hard for me, but it brought a level of honesty to the relationship that I have never encountered before. I know how much he struggled, how much he wished things were different. But in the end, there was no real option other than for him to stop feeling badly about something that wasn't there. Reading the last part of your blog so much reminded me of what we went through.

And happily, because we shared that level of honesty, we have remained friends, so I do still enjoy the benefits of growing and learning from him. I still have the "that should have worked" feeling a lot of the time. But if I'm truthful, I know that I would prefer to be in a situation where there is a natural attraction on both sides and I didn't feel the pressure to match someone's perception of beauty.

I'm rambling on now! So... once again, thank you. I appreciate any thoughts and words that help me wrap my head around this part of my life.

Much love to you and Erin!

[James81]

Originally Posted by Vermilion Sparrow

I'm 28 years old, and every time I have felt a strong attraction to someone, they have not shared it, with only two exceptions. The first was a much older man who was in the middle of a divorce at the time. I expressed my feelings about desiring to grow in a relationship, and he said he couldn't feel any emotional attachment to someone who wasn't a "whole person" yet, whatever that means. The second was someone whose life was in shambles at the time, and he latched on to the fact that I wanted my own child and he already had two kids and didn't want to make his "freedom date" any later than it already was (also, lots of negative energy there--I still talk to him, and he's sorted things out a bit since then, but if he'd still have me it'd be a big compromise).

In the first case, the guy was projecting his insecurities onto you. In the second case, you were simply incompatible. That's just 2 guys out of 3 billion though, so it's not a hopeless case just yet.

What I find interesting is that the only 2 guys you've felt intense attraction to were both guys who had their lives in shambles. What does that say about you? (that's a rhetorical question, and not intended to be offensive or anything like that...just trying to make you think)

For example, I've noticed that *I* find myself attracted to these crazy psycho-type girls who are going through rough patches in their relationships, are married or have boyfriends who don't treat them right, but are completely wild and free thinkers, who experience the world through intense emotion.

After some introspection, I discovered that I was attracted to these types of women because they were emotionally unavailable to me. After digging deeper, I realized that that was because I grew up in a house with emotionally unavailable parents and that experiencing emotion isn't something that I am comfortable with nor is getting close to people. So I seek out these wildly emotional and broken women because it allows me to keep my own emotions at bay (by helping THEM deal with THEIR emotions) and I don't have to get close.

I encourage you to do a similar introspection and see what you come up with.

Originally Posted by Vermilion Sparrow

By now I have to face the fact that I am nearly 30, and my dreams of finding a companion to grow and share with in any formative way are practically nil. Sure, if I ever do find someone it can still be meaningful, but it doesn't seem like I can have someone help me grow in the beautiful way that I always wanted, because by my age everyone already expects a "whole person" (again, whatever that means). I hate doing it all on my own; I spend more time lost and confused than anything else, but I'm beginning to realize that if I don't start to grow on my own, I probably won't do it.

Look at it this way....in 2 years you're still going to be 30. You can either be 30 and alone or you can be 30 and with someone. It's never, EVER too late to go after the things you want. The only things that change over time are the obstacles keeping you from what you want. And those obstacles are just that...obstacles. They aren't things that make it impossible. They are mountains for you to climb. Stop trying to MOVE your mountains and start CLIMBING them.

Originally Posted by Vermilion Sparrow

And then I got this far into writing this and forgot what my point was going to be. Oh well.

Heh, well subconsciously this WAS your point...to reach out to us. Welcome to the boards. Glad to have you here.

[jinkster]

good article steve, thanks!

last fall i decided to go for it and explore a relationship with someone i feel very strong attraction to but have many logical reasons to avoid (one being distance; we don't live in the same city). the idea of natural, biological attraction is interesting and appealing.

it's a very freeing feeling to let go of the logical and practical, even when it's a huge internal challenge. i am 26 and was a bit blindsided when i met this person and started thinking of children - the attraction felt natural and animalistic - i want this man as my mate! however, it also feels like this natural, maybe even hormonal, attraction enlivens my possessive and scarcity instincts!! oh well. an injection of logic might help

the attraction is strong enough to explore and embrace the challenges of a long distance, hopefully long term, poly/open relationship.

[Vermilion Sparrow]

Originally Posted by James81

For example, I've noticed that *I* find myself attracted to these crazy psycho-type girls who are going through rough patches in their relationships, are married or have boyfriends who don't treat them right, but are completely wild and free thinkers, who experience the world through intense emotion.

After some introspection, I discovered that I was attracted to these types of women because they were emotionally unavailable to me. After digging deeper, I realized that that was because I grew up in a house with emotionally unavailable parents and that experiencing emotion isn't something that I am comfortable with nor is getting close to people. So I seek out these wildly emotional and broken women because it allows me to keep my own emotions at bay (by helping THEM deal with THEIR emotions) and I don't have to get close.

Yeah, I'm one of those broken, overly emotional women, but rather than being a wild, free thinker, instead I have an overactive nurture gland, which is why I'm attracted to men who are also broken. My mother and grandmothers were bossy, selfish, manipulative creatures, and my father and the one grandfather I knew were completely unavailable and the primary givers of punishment. My parents still believe I learned how to fake tears at a young age, because once I started crying about something I couldn't stop. I was constantly accused of being manipulative when I was genuinely upset, and even as an adult I still get accused of that, when I let anyone see it. As a small child I was frequently punished for not stopping crying, and this only taught me that I shouldn't let people know I was upset by something.

I also have a tendency to feel closer to people than they feel to me, as a result of my ability to form intense attachments easily. This also makes it difficult to hang onto friends, for various reasons. Either I come on too strong for their liking, or I consciously try not to and they think I'm not interested (I find that everything I do seems to be like a firehose: either full blast or not at all, and I haven't yet found anyone at all who can handle me full blast in large doses). The flipside of this is that I am a terrible judge of whether or not people are interested in me, because normal-person signals come in below my radar. So while I do have confirmation in many cases that there was no attraction from people I was attracted to, it's possible that the only times I notice attraction coming from someone else is when it comes in the firehose manner that I display myself.

But now I'm just rambling.

[James81]

Originally Posted by Vermilion Sparrow

Yeah, I'm one of those broken, overly emotional women, but rather than being a wild, free thinker, instead I have an overactive nurture gland, which is why I'm attracted to men who are also broken. My mother and grandmothers were bossy, selfish, manipulative creatures, and my father and the one grandfather I knew were completely unavailable and the primary givers of punishment. My parents still believe I learned how to fake tears at a young age, because once I started crying about something I couldn't stop. I was constantly accused of being manipulative when I was genuinely upset, and even as an adult I still get accused of that, when I let anyone see it. As a small child I was frequently punished for not stopping crying, and this only taught me that I shouldn't let people know I was upset by something.

I also have a tendency to feel closer to people than they feel to me, as a result of my ability to form intense attachments easily. This also makes it difficult to hang onto friends, for various reasons. Either I come on too strong for their liking, or I consciously try not to and they think I'm not interested (I find that everything I do seems to be like a firehose: either full blast or not at all, and I haven't yet found anyone at all who can handle me full blast in large doses). The flipside of this is that I am a terrible judge of whether or not people are interested in me, because normal-person signals come in below my radar. So while I do have confirmation in many cases that there was no attraction from people I was attracted to, it's possible that the only times I notice attraction coming from someone else is when it comes in the firehose manner that I display myself.

But now I'm just rambling.

Yeah, I'm kind of like that too. I'm an "all or nothing" kind of person. It's either all there and it's crazy intense whirlwind or I'm just bored. lol

You mentioned the word "broken" though, and I'll comment on that. That's a word that I used to describe myself with (in fact, I compared myself to Humpty Dumpty, shattered and couldn't be put back together again), and then I realized that I wasn't broken, I was just down. Broken, to me, implies a certain impossibility to "fix." It created an endless cycle that always left me down and out.

These days I try to avoid describing myself like that, and just that simple realization has helped me grow quite a bit.

[Bruce Achterberg]

Originally Posted by Holistic Star

John Demartini says the purpose of a relationship isn't happiness, it is growth. You attract in a partner the denied parts of yourself. So Steve, you attracted Erin because you wanted to own the loving parts of yourself. Erin was attracted to Steve because she wanted to own the confidence parts of herself etc.
The annoying things about your partner are always aspects that you need to accept in yourself.

I find this to be very true.

The very aspects and traits I would consider annoying are really just strengths, or at least, positive attributes, that I do not yet embody or understand (or both).

E.g. In terms of truth, love, and power, I'm mostly truth and love. At the moment, I'm learning about power, and it's very easy for me to see the exercise of power as lacking in truth or love, but really, there is love--I just don't understand this "foreign language" of power yet. To use an analogy, it's like the mix of truth + love + power looks like it's almost fully lacking truth and love, but it's just a different "mix"--a sort of cocktail--I'm yet to understand. I'm used to seeing truth, love, or truth + love--those are cocktails I am familiar with and enjoy--but add the ingredient of power to the mix and I say, "ugh, what is this strange drink! It needs more truth and power!" But really, the ingredients of truth and love are there... the power just gives it a unique flavor; one I'm starting to enjoy and appreciate (generally with the flavours of truth and love still present) because it has different, more desirable "nutritional" benefits to drinks made only with love, truth, or both.

To the degree I resist power, avoid it, or paint it as "bad" in my mind, I won't understand it. Perhaps one of the most helpful habits I've developed in my life is to simply keep connecting with something until I understand it. I try to find a way to love--to include--everything in my reality (or at least, the things that seem important, or the things I'd really like to learn to love). I may not opt to express it or engage with it after that, but I no longer feel the need to distance myself from it out of fear once I understand it.

I'm learning that there can still be fear in play which can get in the way of constructive expression of each principle, but, well... whenever I perceive someone in someone as "bad" these days, I'm using Byron Katie's "turn around" to point it right back to me so, firstly, I can see the person, and secondly, so I can begin to consider the situation more clearly.

It's easy to respond to fear with fear; much more challenging (and fruitful) to do your best to respond with love.

Originally Posted by Holistic Star

Isn't it great that growth is the default way of being!

I wouldn't have it any other way, but it can be bloody annoying sometimes! Heh.

I'm learning to whine less, though. Whining is such a waste of my power.

(I really need to drop this self-congratulatory sense of humour I have, but damnit, it amuses me so.)

[Steve Pavlina]

Originally Posted by staceyterry

But if I'm truthful, I know that I would prefer to be in a situation where there is a natural attraction on both sides and I didn't feel the pressure to match someone's perception of beauty.

FWIW I think that guy must have been completely blind.

[MidasGirl]

Excellent post. I never quite "got" the whole PUA thing, honestly. Attraction is soooo natural. Although I call myself a hottie, I'd never call myself a 10 and yet I've never had any problems attracting guys in my life. My current boyfriend has studied the whole DeAngelo thing back to back and is very adept at causing women to be attracted to him. He probably would admit he would not have been immediately attracted to me, were it not for the fact that we talked on the phone for 3 hours every night for 3 months before we ever met. Relax people, it's as natural as finding the right puppy for you. And men, quit kidding yourselves. There's only one Angelina Jolie, or whoever else your fantasy 10 is. Meanwhile, incredibly attractive women are all over the place, if you'd only get a grip and let attraction happen naturally instead of placing your value on the fact that you banged a super attractive woman!

[James81]

Originally Posted by MidasGirl

Excellent post. I never quite "got" the whole PUA thing, honestly. Attraction is soooo natural. Although I call myself a hottie, I'd never call myself a 10 and yet I've never had any problems attracting guys in my life.

You don't get it because you are a girl. It's that simple. Attraction is so natural to you because, as you say, you are attractive. Being attractive is like 80% of the battle for a girl when it comes to attraction. Thus, you attract guys without ever having to think about it or worry about it.

Thing is, it doesn't work that way with guys. If it did, I would never have to worry about getting a date either. Not that I'm God's gift to women, but I am fairly attractive myself. There are LOTS of factors that go into attracting women. Being a "hot guy" isn't all there is, because girls don't measure hotness the way we do. To us (guys) "hotness" is mostly superficial at first. Her hair, her body, etc. In time, that goes away a little and personality comes into play, but initial attraction (the kind of attraction that gets you dates), is mostly about surface looks.

For girls, they are more attracted to qualities than looks. Looks are important, but things like confidence and stuff like that is more important.

So, in essence, the best PUA stuff will focus on teaching guys the path towards self-confidence, helping the "nice guys" (overcompensating nice that is) recover and establish boundaries, and how to get what you want out of life so that you are naturally attractive to girls.

Trouble is, most PUA stuff focuses on trickery, using canned lines, etc.

But there is definately a need for PUA for men. Because for men, it's a little more complicated than doing your hair and putting on a sexy outfit.

[MidasGirl]

You do make some really good points James. I understand PUA from the perspective of helping a guy who never got laid to help him do so. That said, I just think it's nothing to brag about. You got laid so what? You got laid by the most attractive girl in the group, so what? So that means now he's worth more than he was yesterday? Ya know.........

As my guy says, (only) getting laid is for wimps. Try creating a lasting connection with a woman....

[James81]

Originally Posted by MidasGirl

You do make some really good points James. I understand PUA from the perspective of helping a guy who never got laid to help him do so. That said, I just think it's nothing to brag about. You got laid so what? You got laid by the most attractive girl in the group, so what? So that means now he's worth more than he was yesterday? Ya know.........

Yeah, I get annoyed with those guys too. The PUA community tends to take insecure, overly compensating nice guys and turn them into insecure, overly compensating jerks....the result? the new "jerk" gets more sex than he used to. Big deal.

True PUAs, however, recognize that there is more to it than just surface treatment. The truly being attractive and changing from the insecure lifestyle involves a massive amount of introspection and core changing of beliefs, which them naturally bubbly to the surface over time.

The problem? It's far easier and quicker to just learn some tricks to get laid than it is to undertake changing yourself at the core level.

[IFeelGood]

You don't get it because you are a girl. It's that simple. Attraction is so natural to you because, as you say, you are attractive. Being attractive is like 80% of the battle for a girl when it comes to attraction. Thus, you attract guys without ever having to think about it or worry about it.

James, I agree that it is very easy for many of us women to attract men in the sense that men want to have sex with us very readily, but when it comes to finding and attracting a compatible mate... we are all in the same boat. I believe that chemistry is very important so when it is covered up with canned dialogue and cheesy cologne it is really just a turn-off...

In my opinion, the more real we can be, the more likely we will attract our most compatible mate. I really have no time or use for the nonsense and games that I see happening in the dating world. Therefore, I do not date, I usually know when I have chemistry with someone. I don't need to go to dinner or sit through a movie with someone to try and see if i do or not... Yes, as you point out, I could have a date every night if I wanted to but to me quality matters. So it doesn't matter how many men are attracted to me. It matters that the right one is :-)

[James81]

Originally Posted by IFeelGood

James, I agree that it is very easy to attract men in the sense that men want to have sex with us very readily, but when it comes to finding and attracting a compatible mate... we are all in the same boat. I believe that chemistry is very important so when it is covered up with canned dialogue and cheesy cologne it is really just a turn-off...

The canned dialogue and cheesy cologne is comparable to women who paste on makeup, get boob jobs, etc. Yeah, it works, but it's not real. So I agree with you there.

And I think you are rate about being in the same boat trying to find a mate. A lot of the arguements made against women (typically by a lot of the PUA crowd, now that I think about it) can just as easily be turned around on men too.

Originally Posted by IFeelGood

In my opinion, the more real we can be, the more likely we will attract our most compatible mate. I really have no time or use for the nonsense and games that I see happening in the dating world. Therefore, I rarely date, I usually know when I have chemistry with someone I don't need to go to dinner with someone to try and see if i do or not...

I don't understand how you have relationships without dating. Dating isn't JUST about games and nonsense. Dating, actually, is MORE about DOING stuff with someone you are attracted to so that you can get to know them.

[cylon]

Originally Posted by MidasGirl

As my guy says, (only) getting laid is for wimps. Try creating a lasting connection with a woman....

Are women that difficult to make lasting connections with? That's the first thing a girl says she wants, a meaningful connection. I don't understand why it would take such an effort to pull that off since they are all saying that's what they want.

Guys are usually more than happy to make a connection with a woman. The problem is they aren't going out and getting laid (being wimps) so they are putting too much emphasis on each interaction, thinking each girl they come across is their soul mate and they are meant to be together for the rest of their lives. The girl perceives this as 'desperation' and puts her attention back on the guys who turn her on, the guys that get laid frequently and therefore don't have that weak puppy-dog look when ever they look into the girls eyes.

But that is the fairy tale romance they have been sold through popular culture, so you can't blame them for expecting that sort of death do us part result. Until they see first-hand that it doesn't work. Then you can start blaming them.

The advantage going out and getting laid has is it lets the guy see past his physical and sexual attraction for the woman. He builds a tolerance to that and can actually see her as a real human being, not as a sex machine. But to get from here to there, it is probably a good idea to have as many partners and experiences as possible to make an educated choice on who to build a relationship with--- not just settle for a girl who is willing to have sex with him.

[cylon]

Originally Posted by James81

You don't get it because you are a girl. It's that simple. Attraction is so natural to you because, as you say, you are attractive. Being attractive is like 80% of the battle for a girl when it comes to attraction. Thus, you attract guys without ever having to think about it or worry about it.

This is our burden to bear though. It is always going to be this way. Women do not understand what rejection feels like so don't waste your time trying to explain it to them.