Attraction (Blog)

[cylon]

Originally Posted by Bliss Sage

What is that?

Whatever it is, it has absolutely nothing to do with what I was talking about. Let's just agree to call it "pain".

[James81]

Originally Posted by cylon

They are different. And the difference is women enjoy the drama of all this stuff. Men don't. Women have plenty of ways to disqualify a man before he gets to the point he can hurt her. They complain about the guys that don't treat them well yet these are the same men who they willingly choose.

Men have those same ways.

And men do the same thing. What you don't understand is that attraction is NOT a choice. For example, I simply cannot help the fact that I am not attracted to a morbidly obese woman. I can't change that fact at all, even if the woman herself has the perfect personality and compliments me in all ways, I still can't help that I am not physically attracted to her and would probably choose a more physically attractive women even if I knew she was wrong for me.

Women do the same exact thing. They can't HELP that they are attracted to those guys who don't treat them well because they POSSESS THE QUALITIES THAT THEY FIND ATTRACTIVE. Just like a nice body is attractive to us, those dominating, confident qualities exhibited by the jerks they date are attractive to them. The problem comes in (with both sexes) is that we take what we are attracted to and hope that we can CHANGE the person to be more compatible with us (which doesn't work).

And women don't enjoy the drama anymore than men do. That's a myth perpetuated by the insecure crowds within the PUA community.

[Bliss Sage]

Originally Posted by cylon

Whatever it is, it has absolutely nothing to do with what I was talking about. Let's just agree to call it "pain".

Sorry, I thought you were talking about rejection.

[cylon]

Originally Posted by James81

What you don't understand is that attraction is NOT a choice.

Actually, I do understand that.

Originally Posted by James81

Women do the same exact thing. They can't HELP that they are attracted to those guys who don't treat them well because they POSSESS THE QUALITIES THAT THEY FIND ATTRACTIVE.

I agree 100%. Men that put women on these emotional rollercoasters, are attractive.

Originally Posted by James81

And women don't enjoy the drama anymore than men do. That's a myth perpetuated by the insecure crowds within the PUA community.

I'm afraid you think I'm disagreeing with you, when I'm not. I agree with everything you just said. But this last point seems to contradict your entire point. Women are attracted to the men who provide drama. That is what makes it enjoyable (meaning, attraction feels good).

[Bliss Sage]

Btw, I ought to add, and, mind you, I've learned not to speak for "women" on this website, so I will only say "I," but men are far better equipped than I am to take rejection, so maybe, if Cylon is right about whatever form of rejection he claims men experience that women don't, maybe there is a reason that men get to experience it and ... I don't.

[James81]

Originally Posted by cylon

Women are attracted to the men who provide drama.

That's the myth that I was talking about that is perpetuated by the insecure sects of the PUA crowd. So we aren't agreeing on this particular point.

It's kind of ludicrous to say that women are attracted to any one particular thing. So much goes into creating that confident, charismatic man that it's hard to pinpoint any one trait and go "aha! THAT'S what women want."

It's much more effective to realize that, as a man, you need to set boundaries with her and be confident with her than it is to think you need to "create drama" for her to be attracted to you. that is called "supplicating" and it's no way to live (and not something someone with self-confident gets caught up in).

[Andrew Gubb]

Loved this article. Do you know, I think the seduction community made me more insecure? This article was what my gut was telling me all the time.

[cylon]

James unfortunately I think we have different styles of communication. Just about everything you have said in your last few posts I totally agree with. We seem to have a very similar view on this topic.

But for whatever reason you see me as either being hostile, or you have this need to "explain it to me how it is" and I do not have time for that. Perhaps you perceived me as doing the same thing to you, if so, that was no my intention and I apologize. I was coming more from a guy to guy place, not a teacher/student place.

Having said that, I think it's time I stopped this communication with you, at least in this thread. I can't justify arguing with someone I agree with, makes no sense to me.

[James81]

Originally Posted by Bliss Sage

Btw, I ought to add, and, mind you, I've learned not to speak for "women" on this website, so I will only say "I," but men are far better equipped than I am to take rejection, so maybe, if Cylon is right about whatever form of rejection he claims men experience that women don't, maybe there is a reason that men get to experience it and ... I don't.

I wouldn't say we're more equipped. I just think that some men make a much bigger deal out of "getting shot down" than it really is and it gives the appearance that they are better equipped.

Being shot down is piddly squat. So what if she doesn't want to go out with you? She doesn't even know you. She is rejecting you without even really knowing you.

As a writer, I equate it to submitting to agents/publishers. When I submit, the first thing I do is send a query letter outlining what my novel has to offer. They then decided, bases on that letter, whether they want to read my novel. If they read my novel, then they decide whether they want to represent/publish my novel.

Asking a girl out or making an approach is like the query letter. It's a short little "pitch" of sorts letting the girl know what I'm about, but it's far too short to be comprehensive or really show her who I really am. It's an image designed to create curiosity so that she gets to know me better.

As a writer, being rejected at the query stage doesn't bother me at all, simply because they aren't rejecting my WORK they are rejecting my sales pitch.

Same thing goes with asking a girl out. And as such, I realize that the rejection isn't THAT big a deal.

But for some reason, lots of guys like to make it seem like they are going through some massive pain when they do it. And that's just the ego getting out of control and blowing the situation out of proportion.

[James81]

Originally Posted by cylon

James unfortunately I think we have different styles of communication. Just about everything you have said in your last few posts I totally agree with. We seem to have a very similar view on this topic.

But for whatever reason you see me as either being hostile, or you have this need to "explain it to me how it is" and I do not have time for that. Perhaps you perceived me as doing the same thing to you, if so, that was no my intention and I apologize. I was coming more from a guy to guy place, not a teacher/student place.

Having said that, I think it's time I stopped this communication with you, at least in this thread. I can't justify arguing with someone I agree with, makes no sense to me.

Yeah, I guess if we are agreeing then it must mean that we are communicating things differently or see certain words/phrases differently. It looked to me like you were saying some things that I've heard other people argue before (who didn't agree with me). Guess I was off base.

[IFeelGood]

I do not enjoy drama unless I am watching a broadway show...

Eckhardt Tolle talks about drama as a way to feed the ego to feel alive. There are many other ways and not only women are ruled by their ego... ahem.

It would make a big difference if we can look at what the issues that are most challenging to women and to men. Honesty is always best and it seems that alot of the PUA community is not always about honesty. It is more about self serving ways to get women into bed.

There are some women who are only into men for sex, but the fact is that most are not. Most women want a connection, a relationship with someone they have chemistry with. Chemistry is far more than just sexual chemistry. I think this is where men have a more difficult time. They confuse sexual chemistry with a true connection at first. The hormones have taken over the brain for a while. Eventually it returns to normal...

I am not saying that men do not want connection or relationships but it seems that men are very happy for just sex, far more often than women and in order to do this they manipulate women into thinking that there is a connection when it is only a sexual one.

[MidasGirl]

Originally Posted by cylon

Women are attracted to the men who provide drama. That is what makes it enjoyable (meaning, attraction feels good).

No wonder people are selling copious books and audios peddling this lie. Even if we made it OK to treat women as a generality; women are attracted to men who make them come alive, feel ruthless passion about and for them. Men who draw out their feminine energy from its core and make it flow forth effortlessly.

Drama is for insecure drama queens. And those are of course the targets of the PUA's. Do you really think a confident, smart, attractive, self aware woman would put up with a man that puts her down or treats her like an *******?

[Angela]

Originally Posted by James81

And as such, I realize that the rejection isn't THAT big a deal.

Exactly! So what if someone passes on you? It doesn't mean anything about you -- unless you MAKE it mean something about you. Which puts you into kind of a downward spiral, because when you take on negative beliefs about yourself because someone doesn't want to be your honey, it generates a very dis-attractive vibe, and then you make THAT mean something, and so on. Yicchhhh.

[cylon]

Originally Posted by James81

Yeah, I guess if we are agreeing then it must mean that we are communicating things differently or see certain words/phrases differently. It looked to me like you were saying some things that I've heard other people argue before (who didn't agree with me). Guess I was off base.

No problem.

[James81]

Hmmm, I'd love to do an interview with some women here to find out what their most common concerns/complaints about dating/relationships/etc are and write an article about it on my blog.

Anybody interested, shoot me a PM.

[cylon]

Originally Posted by IFeelGood

I do not enjoy drama unless I am watching a broadway show...

Eckhardt Tolle talks about drama as a way to feed the ego to feel alive. There are many other ways and not only women are ruled by their ego... ahem.

It would make a big difference if we can look at what the issues that are most challenging to women and to men. Honesty is always best and it seems that alot of the PUA community is not always about honesty. It is more about self serving ways to get women into bed.

There are some women who are only into men for sex, but the fact is that most are not. Most women want a connection, a relationship with someone they have chemistry with. Chemistry is far more than just sexual chemistry. I think this is where men have a more difficult time. They confuse sexual chemistry with a true connection at first. The hormones have taken over the brain for a while. Eventually it returns to normal...

I am not saying that men do not want connection or relationships but it seems that men are very happy for just sex, far more often than women and in order to do this they manipulate women into thinking that there is a connection when it is only a sexual one.

I'd say this is a pretty fair and even handed assessment of the situation. I disagree with a few parts but not enough to bother with nitpicking.

I WOULD point out that "PUA" and guys talking about sex in the way some of us are, are not necessarily the same thing. You can have these same views about men and women without following some arbitrary system or methodology that's based on manipulation.

[cylon]

Originally Posted by MidasGirl

Do you really think a confident, smart, attractive, self aware woman would put up with a man that puts her down or treats her like an *******?

Is someone going to answer my question why women feel the need to list all of their qualities like this?

[Vermilion Sparrow]

Originally Posted by cylon

When you dump a guy, do you find that he hides these flaws from you when you first meet? Do these drama tendencies show up and totally take you by surprise?

That actually did happen once. For the first couple of months I knew him, the guy talked about nothing but his travels in Europe, his love of music and fine food, etc... Only after we started to actually be a "couple" did his dramatic tendencies emerge. Oh, and all those travels had happened 10 years earlier, a single whirlwind trip, in fact, and he'd scarcely left his hometown since. That guy turned out to be some kind of nightmare vortex of lies and drama.

I will admit, though, that with most guys you have enough advance warning of impending drama to let them go.

[IFeelGood]

Originally Posted by cylon

Is someone going to answer my question why women feel the need to list all of their qualities like this?

I guess it is just for emphasis...

[cylon]

Originally Posted by Vermilion Sparrow

That actually did happen once. For the first couple of months I knew him, the guy talked about nothing but his travels in Europe, his love of music and fine food, etc... Only after we started to actually be a "couple" did his dramatic tendencies emerge. Oh, and all those travels had happened 10 years earlier, a single whirlwind trip, in fact, and he'd scarcely left his hometown since. That guy turned out to be some kind of nightmare vortex of lies and drama.

I will admit, though, that with most guys you have enough advance warning of impending drama to let them go.

Sounds like he clouded your judgement with how exciting his lifestyle "was".

In my experience, women are pretty good at sniffing out a guy's real self fairly early on. There are ways to get around this if a guy is trying to be manipulative, which goes back to James' earlier point about being authentic. No need for games if you simply "are".

But I think women are pretty good at spotting a phony. Which is why I question whether they are perhaps subconsciously ignoring these "unattractive qualities" because their other needs are being met.

[Vermilion Sparrow]

Originally Posted by cylon

Is someone going to answer my question why women feel the need to list all of their qualities like this?

I dunno, but I haven't. Then again, I'm old-school enough that I assume that just saying I'm a woman on the internet is enough for people to assume I must be intelligent and beautiful (at least in geek terms). Or I'm a narcissist. You decide.

[cylon]

Originally Posted by Vermilion Sparrow

I dunno, but I haven't. Then again, I'm old-school enough that I assume that just saying I'm a woman on the internet is enough for people to assume I must be intelligent and beautiful (at least in geek terms). Or I'm a narcissist. You decide.

LOL. Yeah I'm (hoping) the people I'm talking with are intelligent and attractive people. At least on the inside. I AM HERE TOO, after all.

[MidasGirl]

Originally Posted by cylon

Is someone going to answer my question why women feel the need to list all of their qualities like this?

Shrug....just to get your goat

[cylon]

Originally Posted by MidasGirl

Shrug....just to get your goat

I see.

[Holistic Star]

Well as a voluptuous, sensual, IQ of 160, independent, successful woman I think it's sweet.

[Angela]

Originally Posted by Holistic Star

Well as a voluptuous, sensual, IQ of 160, independent, successful woman I think it's sweet.

Hey, let's start a club! You get to be president, because you're the smartest.

[cylon]

Is that a good IQ score?

[Angela]

Genius level.

[Holistic Star]

Well if it's good enough for Bill Gates, Beethoven and Einstein I think it's ok. Average is 100.

Although I may have exaggerated a teensy bit. I'm about 140, because I just can't do that damn spatial reasoning!

anyway it's EQ that counts! And that's a whole different ball game.


btw. Sorry if I've derailed this thread.

[cylon]

Never had my IQ tested, not sure what I could do with it. I probably have an IQ level though. Although I'm not that great with math.