Attraction (Blog)

[IFeelGood]

Usually for me to be close enough to a person to want to spend time with them as in "a date", I already know that I have chemistry with them so it usually leads to more of a relationship. I feel like I am leading someone on if I say yes when I know there is no chemistry.

[Steve Pavlina]

Originally Posted by James81

I don't understand how you have relationships without dating. Dating isn't JUST about games and nonsense. Dating, actually, is MORE about DOING stuff with someone you are attracted to so that you can get to know them.

I also feel that dating is overrated and unnecesary. Erin and I became a couple before we had our first date. Most of the time we'd hang out with other people together. We also talked on the phone a lot.

The stuff people do on dates can actually become a barrier to intimacy. The fluffy parts become a distraction.

Dating can also make a lot of people tense, which makes it harder for them to just be themselves.

That said, dating is still fun, and I enjoy going out on dates, but I think it's better to have it later in a relationship, not right at the beginning. I would much rather go on a date with a friend than with a stranger.

[James81]

Originally Posted by IFeelGood

Usually for me to be close enough to a person to want to spend time with them as in "a date", I already know that I have chemistry with them so it usually leads to more of a relationship. I feel like I am leading someone on if I say yes when I know there is no chemistry.

Originally Posted by Steve Pavlina

I also feel that dating is overrated and unnecesary. Erin and I became a couple before we had our first date. Most of the time we'd hang out with other people together. We also talked on the phone a lot.

The stuff people do on dates can actually become a barrier to intimacy. The fluffy parts become a distraction.

Dating can also make a lot of people tense, which makes it harder for them to just be themselves.

That said, dating is still fun, and I enjoy going out on dates, but I think it's better to have it later in a relationship, not right at the beginning. I would much rather go on a date with a friend than with a stranger.

I think that what I'm trying to figure out here is how you go from "not knowing a person" to "relationship" without having some sort of "dating."

I mean, I dunno, technically meeting up in a bar every weekend to "hang out" is a date. Hanging out together with other people is dating as well. At least it seems that way to me.

IMO, "dating" just means spending time with someone you enjoy being around and want to make a deeper connection with. How you do that makes no difference.

[IFeelGood]

This is our burden to bear though. It is always going to be this way. Women do not understand what rejection feels like so don't waste your time trying to explain it to them.

Cylon,
Beautiful, attractive, intelligent females get rejected too! Yes, that is true. The thing is, what many people fail to understand is that rejection is actually a good thing. If I feel something for someone and they don't feel it back, hey that means that this person is not the right match for me. It means that someone else is and I need to have the patience and courage to find that person.

What most men do not understand is that a big challenge for women is trying to sort through the guys who are only in it for the sex....There are many men who go out looking for one sexual conquest after another with no regard for the feelings of the women. These are beautiful, attractive women who are rejected once the guy has sex with them.

Stop filling your head with the idea that you have it so bad and women have it so easy. This is not true and you are just perpetuating this in your life...

[cylon]

Originally Posted by James81

I think that what I'm trying to figure out here is how you go from "not knowing a person" to "relationship" without having some sort of "dating."

The word 'date' gives whatever the interaction is more significance than it deserves, which adds unnecessary pressure. Unnecessary pressure=chemistry killer.

It may seem like hair splitting, but the word date has too much history and baggage behind it.

[cylon]

IFeelGood-- the reality of what rejection means and is like for men and women are worlds apart. Really no point in elaborating on it. They are completely different things.

[IFeelGood]

Cylon,
the "reality" is that both sexes experience rejection (often for different reasons). When experienced, we need to learn to make the best of it and move on from it.

[indefatigable]

IFeelGood - hear hear! Both sexes experience rejection. It's a shame that so many potentially informative, interesting threads about relationships and attraction on this forum are derailed with "gender wars." There are some differences, but they are only TRENDS, vary immensely when additional control factors are taken into account, and most importantly each individual's experience is different. The overuse of stereotypes here is very off-putting.

I'm an (attractive/intelligent) female and I know EXACTLY what rejection feels like and how painful it is (or can be). To claim this impossible because I lack a penis is to make a statement completely out of touch with reality.

An accurate statement would have been, "people who haven't experienced rejection do not understand what rejection feels like ... etc etc."

[cylon]

Originally Posted by IFeelGood

Cylon,
the "reality" is that both sexes experience rejection (often for different reasons). When experienced, we need to learn to make the best of it and move on from it.

That's all well and good. I was talking to James about the experience of rejection men can feel when they are the ones who have to approach the woman and potentially get shot down, and all the pressure that goes along with it. You're talking about something completely different.

I do agree with your point about learning from our experiences and moving on.

[cylon]

Why do women always feel the need to point out that they are beautiful and intelligent on these threads?

[Vermilion Sparrow]

Originally Posted by cylon

... they are putting too much emphasis on each interaction, thinking each girl they come across is their soul mate and they are meant to be together for the rest of their lives.

This is probably one of my main problems in human interaction, period. And I'm a woman. Anyone who shows interest in me at all gets treated like a new best friend/soul mate, if only for a few minutes before they start to think I'm weird and make excuses to leave.

[IFeelGood]

Cylon,
You stated that "men bear the burden of rejection" and "women do not understand what rejection feels like" I simply pointed out that this is not true. I have nothing more to say to you about this.

[cylon]

Originally Posted by Vermilion Sparrow

This is probably one of my main problems in human interaction, period. And I'm a woman. Anyone who shows interest in me at all gets treated like a new best friend/soul mate, if only for a few minutes before they start to think I'm weird and make excuses to leave.

It depends on the context. I've had "extremely beautiful and intelligent women" attach themselves to me way too soon and it is kind of creepy. I can understand why that sort of behavior is such a turn off.

But, admittedly, it is nice to have someone just bathe you in attention. The problem is you know it's not the real you, it's the idea of you that the person is so attracted to. People like to be seen for the real people they are, not just fantasy figures that can save you from yourself.

[James81]

Originally Posted by cylon

The word 'date' gives whatever the interaction is more significance than it deserves, which adds unnecessary pressure. Unnecessary pressure=chemistry killer.

It may seem like hair splitting, but the word date has too much history and baggage behind it.

It only puts pressure on it if you choose to allow it to put pressure on it.

To me, it's very important that there is a distinction made in my interactions with women between a "date" and "hanging out." Because I want my intentions to be CLEAR to her about what I'm wanting. It really helps alleviate the whole "friendzone" aspect when you are clear about dating as opposed to "hanging out." "Hanging out" could potentially mean that two people are on two different pages (one things it's friendship, the other romantic).

Aside from that, dating is natural. making it into something full of pressure is a construct of your own reality. You choose to add pressure to it by believing it adds pressure to it.

Originally Posted by Vermilion Sparrow

This is probably one of my main problems in human interaction, period. And I'm a woman. Anyone who shows interest in me at all gets treated like a new best friend/soul mate, if only for a few minutes before they start to think I'm weird and make excuses to leave.

*backs away slowly*








j/k

[cylon]

Originally Posted by James81

Because I want my intentions to be CLEAR to her about what I'm wanting.

It probably comes down to what we are talking about when we say "date". If you're talking about taking her out to dinner and spending money to impress her because society has told you that's how to woo a woman, that is what I mean when I say date.

If you're just hanging out you can still make your intentions clear. I'm just talking about removing the ceremony from the 'dating' process and making it more laid-back and natural.

[MidasGirl]

Originally Posted by IFeelGood

Cylon,
The thing is, what many people fail to understand is that rejection is actually a good thing.

Well said. Saying that attraction is natural does not mean it is easy. Recognizing that people have a right to reject you without you throwing a fit or feeling like your life is over is part of that natural process. I've certainly liked guys that turned out didn't care for me. Oh well.......next?

[JSB]

Originally Posted by IFeelGood

Cylon,
You stated that "men bear the burden of rejection" and "women do not understand what rejection feels like" I simply pointed out that this is not true. I have nothing more to say to you about this.

I agree that both sexes can experience rejection from a partner or potential partner, but men are FAR more likely to experience being "shot down" --- a specific type of rejection --- simply because men are more often than not the ones expected to approach and initiate an interaction.

[James81]

Originally Posted by cylon

It probably comes down to what we are talking about when we say "date". If you're talking about taking her out to dinner and spending money to impress her because society has told you that's how to woo a woman, that is what I mean when I say date.

If you're just hanging out you can still make your intentions clear. I'm just talking about removing the ceremony from the 'dating' process and making it more laid-back and natural.

My default definition of a date is simply this: Two people who do something together (hang out, dinner, skydiving, whatever) because they enjoy each other's company and want to pursue a romantic relationship with them.

Anything over and beyond that is simply society's adding undue pressure where it's completely unnecessary.

[Elfwing]

Whoever said that irritating aspects of our partner is something we need to accept in ourselves - that does seem true. My friend can really irritate me because he likes to provoke me and he can be really negative. Unfortunately, I can be the same way and it's something I hate about myself.

And as for partners helping you grow... just realised I'm attracted to people who are extroverted, yet openly weird. That's what I want to be - to have the courage to be openly myself. When I'm around people, though, my mind goes completely blank and I'm reduced to just nodding, shrugging and grimacing.

[cylon]

Originally Posted by JSB

I agree that both sexes can experience rejection from a partner or potential partner, but men are FAR more likely to experience being "shot down" --- a specific type of rejection --- simply because men are more often than not the ones expected to approach and initiate an interaction.

It's expected of us. That's what we're "supposed" to do. Women expect it. So for a woman to say she knows what that feels like is a bit silly. You can tell by the responses here how it's never happened to them.

And I'm not saying it's supposed to. Women expect men to be brave and approach. And there are plenty of women out there who appreciate the courage it can take to approach a stranger and initiate a conversation, so it's not like the system is bad.

Is what it is.

[James81]

Originally Posted by JSB

I agree that both sexes can experience rejection from a partner or potential partner, but men are FAR more likely to experience being "shot down" --- a specific type of rejection --- simply because men are more often than not the ones expected to approach and initiate an interaction.

Is "being shot down" worse than the rejection of "being used for sex and then forgotten about"?

Personally, when you look at it like THAT, we (men) have it pretty easy. At least being shot down doesn't involve an emotional investment or risk of pregnancy/disease.

[cylon]

Originally Posted by James81

Anything over and beyond that is simply society's adding undue pressure where it's completely unnecessary.

Precisely. It's "what you would do anyway".

Originally Posted by James81

Is "being shot down" worse than the rejection of "being used for sex and then forgotten about"?

Do you have any experience with this?

[MidasGirl]

Originally Posted by cylon

IFeelGood-- the reality of what rejection means and is like for men and women are worlds apart. Really no point in elaborating on it. They are completely different things.

No true, we are just more graceful in handling it

Seriously though, if you are a confident guy you won't put so much energy into being rejected by one woman, especially one you hardly even know!

[James81]

Originally Posted by cylon

Do you have any experience with this?

Actually, I have experience with both types of rejection.

The "No thanks I don't want to go out with you" type of rejection I got over in like 5 minutes.

The "hmm, this girl just wanted to have some sex and made me think otherwise and then ended things with me" took a few months to get over.

I'm siding with the women on this one.

I understand your points and what you are saying (I am a man after all), I just think that you don't recognize that women have just as many struggles with relationships/sex as we do. They are just different.

[cylon]

Originally Posted by James81

I understand your points and what you are saying (I am a man after all), I just think that you don't recognize that women have just as many struggles with relationships/sex as we do. They are just different.

They are different. And the difference is women enjoy the drama of all this stuff. Men don't. Women have plenty of ways to disqualify a man before he gets to the point he can hurt her. They complain about the guys that don't treat them well yet these are the same men who they willingly choose.

[Vermilion Sparrow]

Originally Posted by cylon

They are different. And the difference is women enjoy the drama of all this stuff. Men don't.

Um, what? This woman doesn't enjoy the drama. I've dumped guys for causing drama.

I've got enough internal drama of my own, I don't need external drama as well.

[Bliss Sage]

Originally Posted by cylon

It's expected of us. That's what we're "supposed" to do. Women expect it. So for a woman to say she knows what that feels like is a bit silly. You can tell by the responses here how it's never happened to them.

So...what is it when a girl really likes and wants to have a certain guy in her life (in order to get to know him better/well, potentially for a future...), but when he finds out she won't have sex with him unless they are married, he disappears? What is it? If not rejection, if not the guy's way of telling the girl "Sorry babe, you're a waste of my time if I can't have sex with you!" It feels a lot like rejection of everything that girl is beyond her body (which is her entire life and essence), and if she had had sex with him, he still would reject her, because his behavior has revealed that it was about sex, not who he would have been having sex with.

What is that?

[Elfwing]

I don't enjoy drama. I always want to run and hide from it.

[cylon]

Originally Posted by Vermilion Sparrow

I've dumped guys for causing drama.

When you dump a guy, do you find that he hides these flaws from you when you first meet? Do these drama tendencies show up and totally take you by surprise?

[st33med]

Erin is very nurturing and motherly. In college she majored in psychology, partly so she could understand people better. She loves to encourage people and help them feel better about themselves. If our kids ever feel bad, she’s always there to cheer them up and help them solve their problems.

But she smacked me...

Anyways, any advice on people who are really shy of you? I am very attractive, and I think that my brains + looks kinda pushes them away because of courage issues.
To quote one girl I tried asking out: "You're too good for me"

... In which I think is the biggest pile of kittywompus I've heard.