Law of Attraction Article doesn't make sense

[Breakaway]

To summarize the article, it started off by talking about criticism of the theory, such as what would happen if 2 people are competing for the same job and they both manefest getting it; or what if a child is molested? Would the child be responsible?

The rest of the article then talks about subjective reality. It essentially says that everything exists as part of your own consciousness. To quote the article: "The only intentions are yours. You’re the only thinker in this universe."

First of all, you are obviously not the only thinker in this world, because even if you were never born, there would still be a universe, jobs, marriages, child molestation in the world. You cannot possibly manifest it if you weren't alive. Things like murder and rape existed for thousands of years before you were ever born.

Here's another quote from the article: "If a child is abused, does that mean the child intended it in some way? No. It means YOU intended it. You intend child abuse to manifest simply by thinking about it. "

No, I'm pretty sure it existed before I was alive. It would exist even if I never thought about it.

Reality is objective. People are getting killed regardless of whether or not you are thinking about it.

I rarely think about starving children in 3rd world countries, yet it probably kills millions every year. Because reality is not subjective at all. What happens happens regardless of how much you think about it.

Here is another quote from the article: "If you stop thinking about something entirely, does that mean it disappears? Yes, technically it does."

No it doesn't. I didn't sit here and invent hundreds of languages and cultures in my head. I didn't manifest chemistry, math, water, the internet, bacteria, laws of gravity that existed before I ever had thoughts about them.

[pianoperformer]

Originally Posted by Breakaway

To summarize the article, it started off by talking about criticism of the theory, such as what would happen if 2 people are competing for the same job and they both manefest getting it; or what if a child is molested? Would the child be responsible?

The rest of the article then talks about subjective reality. It essentially says that everything exists as part of your own consciousness. To quote the article: "The only intentions are yours. You’re the only thinker in this universe."

First of all, you are obviously not the only thinker in this world, because even if you were never born, there would still be a universe, jobs, marriages, child molestation in the world. You cannot possibly manifest it if you weren't alive. Things like murder and rape existed for thousands of years before you were ever born.

How do you know?

Originally Posted by Breakaway

Here's another quote from the article: "If a child is abused, does that mean the child intended it in some way? No. It means YOU intended it. You intend child abuse to manifest simply by thinking about it. "

No, I'm pretty sure it existed before I was alive. It would exist even if I never thought about it.

Reality is objective. People are getting killed regardless of whether or not you are thinking about it.

I rarely think about starving children in 3rd world countries, yet it probably kills millions every year. Because reality is not subjective at all. What happens happens regardless of how much you think about it.

How do you know?

Originally Posted by Breakaway

Here is another quote from the article: "If you stop thinking about something entirely, does that mean it disappears? Yes, technically it does."

No it doesn't. I didn't sit here and invent hundreds of languages and cultures in my head. I didn't manifest chemistry, math, water, the internet, bacteria, laws of gravity that existed before I ever had thoughts about them.

See above.

You sound kind of angry about it though. It's just another perspective. You can ignore it if you don't like it.

[Breakaway]

I'm not exactly sure what you mean by the word "know". If you want to be literal about it, nobody "knows" anything and everything in the world could be fake, and we're all just computer generated characters. But unless there is a reason to believe that, it would be kind of stupid to just assume we're in a computer game.

I could say that there is an invisible polar bear standing beside you right now but unless I can prove it to some degree, you would be foolish to believe it (even though you can't "know" if there is one or not).

So how do I know that things like murder, rape, starvation have existed before I was born? Well I can talk to people who were born before me, I can read books that were published before my birth.

[drama07]

Everything wasnt intended by your mind, but rather beyond it. You can't say the world will still exist once you die more than you can say it will not. Everything is simply an illusion including what you said.

[Acting Like Godot]

Originally Posted by Breakaway

But unless there is a reason to believe that, it would be kind of stupid to just assume we're in a computer game.

And what assumptions do you have instead?

Are you assuming for instance that there is really a separate external reality, quite apart from yourself? And are you also assuming that there is really such a thing as your "self"?

Ah, the usual illusions.

[Dharma]

You are the only thinker in the world and it is reflected by 6 billion people.

The world disappears every time you go to sleep. And when you wake up it's back again. You make it appear as if time went by.

In your fresh new world that appears in the moment you mix in the universe, jobs, marriages, and child molestation.

It is all a reflection of you. Don't take it so seriously. It's not real.

[Daffy Duck]

Dharma, talking to yourself again?

Acting Like Godot, I think both of us are still suffering from the usual illusion that we must wear clothes to work. Think we can get away from that? Ducks are meant to be naked.

Breakaway, ask yourself this: Are you able to convince yourself that two plus two equals five? If not, then you shouldn't bother with subjective reality much. You will either dive straight in and believe everything is made up and depends entirely on YOU [Yes only YOU, Mr. Who Is All That Exists (talk about being full of yourself!)], or you'll think that some people just like to believe in fairy tales. When I was younger, I used to pretend I was a superhero. I tied a blanket around my neck as a cape and called myself Batman. It served a fun purpose at the time. You'll think that many people still do this (make things up for fun, or comfort).

Or maybe you'll think something else!

I still think two plus two equals four. Don't be afraid to stick around in this objective illusion with me. Some might call you crazy though!

[drama07]

Originally Posted by Daffy Duck

Dharma, talking to yourself again?

Acting Like Godot, I think both of us are still suffering from the usual illusion that we must wear clothes to work. Think we can get away from that? Ducks are meant to be naked.

Breakaway, ask yourself this: Are you able to convince yourself that two plus two equals five? If not, then you shouldn't bother with subjective reality much. You will either dive straight in and believe everything is made up and depends entirely on YOU [Yes only YOU, Mr. Who Is All That Exists (talk about being full of yourself!)], or you'll think that some people just like to believe in fairy tales. When I was younger, I used to pretend I was a superhero. I tied a blanket around my neck as a cape and called myself Batman. It served a fun purpose at the time. You'll think that many people still do this (make things up for fun, or comfort).

Or maybe you'll think something else!

I still think two plus two equals four. Don't be afraid to stick around in this objective illusion with me. Some might call you crazy though!

Funny how you can dive straight in and believe everything as objective. I guess this is how a conditioned mind operates.

[cylon]

Originally Posted by Daffy Duck

You'll think that many people still do this (make things up for fun, or comfort).

I think some people cling to objective reality for similar reasons, because it gives them comfort, and it makes everything very cut and dry and easy to handle (perhaps). Only problem is, it seems OR isn't as objective as we like to think.

A lot of people are trying to make heads or tails of what science is now telling them, and sometimes even what their own experiences are telling them. That's when they REALLY want to cling to OR, big time.

[Acting Like Godot]

Originally Posted by Daffy Duck

Acting Like Godot, I think both of us are still suffering from the usual illusion that we must wear clothes to work. Think we can get away from that?

Yes ... At the rate that I'm manifesting wealth, it may be not be too long before I cease to need to go to work. However, I don't like to boast too much about this.

Daffy - the point you've missed (again - I believe you've missed this before) is that knowing that something is an illusion is a different issue from actually being able to unravel it.

I have unravelled some illusions for myself; and am still unravelling certain other illusions; and when I'm done with those, I'll move on to others. Manifesting nudity at work however is not my current list of intentions. The question of whether I personally could unravel it therefore does not arise.

Nevertheless, I thought that these may inspire you:


Entrepreneur Richard Branson on a working day.



Professional golfer Henrik Stenson, competing on a muddy golf course


Thousands of nude people, posing for famous photographer Spencer Tunick



Photo from World Naked Bike Ride, an international event



New Guinea natives in their usual clothes (the penis sheath is called a koteka).



Hadaka matsuri nude festival in Japan. Sometimes used as a team-building exercise for executives working in Japanese corporations.



Vincent Bethell, founder of the "The Freedom to be Yourself" group.

[James81]

^ Damn, does this board REALLY allow unlinked nudity? I know that nudity is a beautiful thing and all, but some people might be on computers in a library or something and seeing that kind of thing could get them in trouble.

****

Anyway, the "Law of Attraction" is mostly bunk. You don't manifest things outside of your own world by thinking about them. Someone molesting a child isn't a result of you or anybody thinking or manifesting that. It's the result of the CHILD MOLESTOR thinking or manifesting that.

The only real benefit from the Law of Attraction is the realization that no action within your own life happens until you first gravitate towards the thinking that spurs you toward the actions you want. It's not magic. It's simply if you change your mode of thinking from that of a failure to that of a success, then more realistic solutions will manifest themselves in your mind. You still have to ACT on those thoughts.

I simply don't believe that the law of attraction is anything more than that. You can't, for instance, manifest world peace within yourself and think that that will solve world peace. Instead, you can manifest peace WITHIN yourself by realizing that YOU can be peaceful, and in turn your actions change your limited scope of the world.

However, there are people out there who are manifesting these terrible things because that's what they are thinking about. YOU can't stop that. The only way to stop that is to help these people realize that THEY need to stop feeding their thoughts with these things that causes them to do these horrible things.

[Daffy Duck]

Originally Posted by drama07

Funny how you can dive straight in and believe everything as objective. I guess this is how a conditioned mind operates.

You're mistaken -- is this how an unconditioned mind operates? I don't believe everything is objective and neither is everything subjective. There's a reason these two words exist and that's because not everything is objective and again, not everything is subjective.

Acting Like Godot, I had a feeling you would post or mention people who go to work naked, and sure enough you did. I wasn't expecting pictures though!

For someone who doesn't like to boast about his wealth, I see you mention it quite often. Of course, "talking" and "boasting" are two different things.

And I already knew your point about "something is an illusion is a different issue from actually being able to unravel it." I even had a feeling you would mention that. I'm 2 for 2!

My post was mainly for Breakaway. "Everything goes" is basically how subjective reality works and that's what I was explaining. If you want to believe cows fly, then go ahead. Your "truth" is no more less or true than my "truth." If only my professors thought the same thing, I might always get perfect scores!

Breakaway, one time my niece brought me a piece of paper with a bunch of random lines. Not sure of what it was, she told me it was a cat. Oh, duh! Obviously it's a cat. I just needed her to convince me. Likewise, some people can be convinced that two plus two equals five. But does it? And would it serve you at all to think it does? And Breakaway, finally, you'll find people here who tell you that you believe in illusions. Oh, you think you have a self? Haha you're falling for the usual illusion! But if you say the same to them, well, you're wrong! The secret is that deep down they still believe and live in an objective reality too. That's why they brush their teeth everyday.

[spirit4711]

@Breakaway, what you remind me of is the Jim Carey character (movie name escapes me) where Jim plays a guy who from birth is the unknowing star of a TV reality show. Everybody around him knows, except he.

See the movie. It's got some interesting points of view.

[Daffy Duck]

There was still an objective reality in The Truman Show (Jim Carrey's movie). Carrey was just being lied to about it. Personally, I'd entirely admit that it's possible we're being fooled, but this is very different than saying there is no such thing as an objective reality or Ultimate Truth.

Example: Life. Life is an objective truth. If someone told me that Life doesn't exist, they're not only expressing their perspective, they're ultimately wrong. How could they even tell me that if Life didn't exist? This is probably the most simple example I can think of.

[Angela]

Do you know what the Ultimate Truth is, Daffy?

[Daffy Duck]

Nope. But I can point out the silliness is trying to argue for a subjective reality as if it's an objective truth. If you could somehow prove subjective reality is true, at that very moment, you would prove it is false, according to how we humans define subjective and objective.

Note: When I say "subjective reality" in this post, I mean a 100% subjective reality. Obviously, as stated before, I think some things are subjective. For example, "I am unable to make a million dollars" is a subjective belief/illusion that can be changed.

Cylon, I don't mean to be rude. I saw your post. I agree with you.

[Angela]

Originally Posted by Daffy Duck

Nope. But I can point out the silliness is trying to argue for a subjective reality as if it's an objective truth.

I agree with you there -- that would be silly.

[Daffy Duck]

I think I see what you did there.

Anyway, I hate rehashing this. Acting Like Godot just keeps attracting me to topics like this, probably so he can practice more. It's all his fault.

But yeah, Breakaway, this topic alone gives a good idea of what subjective reality believers believe. Looks like you already know what you want to believe though. A part of me hates arguing against it, because it's not like it produces any bad results like other beliefs do (such as the beliefs of Ku Klux Klan members). But I'm with you. Life existed before me. I didn't create hundreds of languages either. And if I did, I did a good job of making myself forget, and I probably had a good reason to do that.

At the end of the day, we're all just doing our best to figure stuff out, eh? We really suck at it though. Compared to all the knowledge in the Universe, we know so little... man, most of us have enough trouble putting together sentences. Is that comma in the right place? Who cares.

[Angela]

Originally Posted by Daffy Duck

Anyway, I hate rehashing this. Acting Like Godot just keeps attracting me to topics like this, probably so he can practice more. It's all his fault.

That's because Acting Like Godot is an aspect of You. You keep attracting ALG, probably so you can practice more.

What are you practicing?

[Daffy Duck]

Originally Posted by Angela

That's because Acting Like Godot is an aspect of You.

You say that as if it's objectively true. How do you know?

What are you practicing?

Tennis, lately. You?

[Angela]

Originally Posted by Daffy Duck

You say that as if it's objectively true. How do you know?

How do you know I'm saying that as if it's objectively true? How do you know the difference between a person speaking their truth as if it were subjective and as if it were objective?

[Angela]

Originally Posted by Daffy Duck

Tennis, lately. You?

Yes, it looks like very much like tennis!

[Matiasfx]

Originally Posted by James81

I simply don't believe that the law of attraction is anything more than that. You can't, for instance, manifest world peace within yourself and think that that will solve world peace. Instead, you can manifest peace WITHIN yourself by realizing that YOU can be peaceful, and in turn your actions change your limited scope of the world.

I don't agree with you.

Thats what u believe and it is true for you maybe, but not for all of us as you try to explain.


Dr John Hagelin - The Effects of Group Meditation on Crime

Best regards James

Matt

[Daffy Duck]

Originally Posted by Angela

How do you know I'm saying that as if it's objectively true?

I don't, but I assumed you would correct me if I was mistaken.

So which was it?

How do you know the difference between a person speaking their truth as if it were subjective and as if it were objective?

Depends on the subject. But when discussing objectivity vs. subjectivity itself, it helps to specify.

You mentioned "their" truth just now, so I take it you mean subjectively.

Here's an interesting link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Objectivity_(philosophy)

[cylon]

Originally Posted by James81

The only real benefit from the Law of Attraction is the realization that no action within your own life happens until you first gravitate towards the thinking that spurs you toward the actions you want. It's not magic. It's simply if you change your mode of thinking from that of a failure to that of a success, then more realistic solutions will manifest themselves in your mind. You still have to ACT on those thoughts.

That's your own interpretation of LOA though. That's not the LOA we all know and love. No one who actually believes in LOA believes in it the way you say, so you're really not talking about LOA. I think you're talking about traditional goal-setting then putting the "LOA" stamp on it.

LOA means your thoughts, literally attract things to you. Not metaphorically.

[James81]

Originally Posted by Matiasfx

I don't agree with you.

Thats what u believe and it is true for you maybe, but not for all of us as you try to explain.


Dr John Hagelin - The Effects of Group Meditation on Crime

Best regards James

Matt

Originally Posted by cylon

That's your own interpretation of LOA though. That's not the LOA we all know and love. No one who actually believes in LOA believes in it the way you say, so you're really not talking about LOA. I think you're talking about traditional goal-setting then putting the "LOA" stamp on it.

LOA means your thoughts, literally attract things to you. Not metaphorically.

Fair enough. I disagree, but that's just me.

The beautiful thing about this theory is that it, like religion, is unproveable either way. I wish people would quit marketing this is fact, and, instead, market it as relgion instead.

For example, if I decide to adjust my thinking to attract large sums of money to me, how can it be proven that it was just my thoughts that did it or the fact that by changing my thoughts, I changed my actions in tune with my thoughts which set me on a path toward acheiving large sums of money?

I would think that, for this theory to be true, there would have to be a case where someone literally sat around in a room on their ass, adjusted their thoughts toward acheiving something, and that something came to them even though they were just sitting in that room the whole time.

Find me a case like that, and you'll make a believer out of me.

Until then, I'll choose to believe that my thoughts guide my actions, and that without my actions, my thoughts are never going to truly manifest my desires. But if I choose to act, then and only then will my thinking attract the things I desire because my thoughts will ultimately guide my actions.

[James81]

And, for that matter, calling it a "law" is also deceptive and wrong. In order for something to be a law, it has to be proven beyond any shadow of doubt.

For example: gravity.

[drama07]

The only real benefit from the Law of Attraction is the realization that no action within your own life happens until you first gravitate towards the thinking that spurs you toward the actions you want. It's not magic. It's simply if you change your mode of thinking from that of a failure to that of a success, then more realistic solutions will manifest themselves in your mind. You still have to ACT on those thoughts.

Who is ACTING on those thoughts? Are you sure its YOU?

[drama07]

Originally Posted by James81

And, for that matter, calling it a "law" is also deceptive and wrong. In order for something to be a law, it has to be proven beyond any shadow of doubt.

For example: gravity.

LOA is proven. You attracted everything you perceive this moment.

[drama07]

Originally Posted by Daffy Duck

You're mistaken -- is this how an unconditioned mind operates? I don't believe everything is objective and neither is everything subjective. There's a reason these two words exist and that's because not everything is objective and again, not everything is subjective.

How do you know what's subjective and what's objective? Can they both be one?