Law of Attraction Article doesn't make sense

[Angela]

I am not vibrationally aligned with having a big, heavy cow in my apartment. I'm vibrationally aligned with living cow-free -- I don't believe in bovine intervention.

[Daffy Duck]

Okay, okay. Don't have a cow!

Edit: Wait, it's supposed to be in the positive sense. If I say "don't have a cow," the Universe hears "have a cow." Let's try this again.

"I am living my life happily and free of cows."

[wolfgang]

What's the beef?

[Angela]

Are you trying to prod me?

[Daffy Duck]

We're trying to have a serious conversation here, people. Stop it with your udder nonsense.

[cylon]

Originally Posted by Daffy Duck

Okay, okay. Don't have a cow!

Edit: Wait, it's supposed to be in the positive sense. If I say "don't have a cow," the Universe hears "have a cow." Let's try this again.

"I am living my life happily and free of cows."

Lol, yeah I guess it does sound kind of stupid if you don't have experience with it. It's easy to make fun of, and to make fun of the people who believe in it. After all they are stupid and deluded, unlike you, you who are smart, intelligent, and has it all together.

But according to Abraham-Hicks stuff, this is an inclusion based universe. So it's not that a cow would go through your window, but if you focus enough on it, you will start to have cows pop up in your reality. In really bizarre ways.

[Daffy Duck]

Heh, well, I do have experience with positive affirmations. The first time I've heard about asking for things in the positive sense was when I was little and listening to a Jack Canfield tape. That's what I was thinking about when I made that post.

Funny how things like that stick with you. It mooved me.

[Daffy Duck]

Originally Posted by cylon

After all they are stupid and deluded, unlike you, you who are smart, intelligent, and has it all together.

Errrrr, no no. I don't think any of you are stupid or deluded. I think you don't have enough experience with me, which is why you say that. I don't think that way and I hope I didn't act like I do. Who here knows me a bit... hmm, Angela maybe. I doubt she thinks I believe that way.

Acting Like Godot and Angela are some of my favorite people I've talked to on any forum. I was also a big fan of John Freestone, who was ALG's total opposite in regards to LOA. Certainly not stupid or deluded.

I just don't think of objective/subjective reality in the same way many of you do. On most other things, we're in total agreement. I have a lot of Christian friends and many of them I don't agree with on certain things too. They're not stupid or deluded either, but I highly doubt that Jesus is the "only" way to God. I highly doubt that millions of people will burn in Hell. I seriously hope not.

I make jokes but I try not to make fun of anyone in specific, unless it's myself. Just trying to keep things a bit lighthearted. I hate it when discussions get VERY serious, even online. Don't you?

[cylon]

Well you sure like to marginalize people.

You spend enough time speaking AGAINST loa, and SR, so why not have some intellectual honesty and put yourself in the shoes of people who are trying this out for themselves? Doesn't it seem that to really KNOW an issue, you need to explore both sides? And in something like LOA, it's something you DO, not just talk about.

But your responses are little kids running around with fake capes making believe they are super-heroes, or people believing in SR eating rat poison or eating a steady diet of McDonalds. Just the most extreme stuff to make us look like buffoons.

That doesn't seem to me like taking the issue or the people who study it and use it, seriously. Which is probably the point.

[Daffy Duck]

I made the fake capes comparison, but I never suggested that SR believers eat rat poison or McDonalds. I think if you re-read my post with a different perspective you'll see that.

I thought the fake cape comparison was really good. Isn't that the point of subjective reality? If I really believe I'm Batman, then I am Batman, am I not? If you think this sounds foolish, then maybe you don't believe in subjective reality. I think it's a little foolish. I think that just because someone thinks they're Batman doesn't mean, objectively, that they are Batman.

Unless my understanding of the concept is wrong, Subjective Reality seems to suggest that "delusion does not exist" and "there is no such thing as an untrue answer." This is what I disagree with.

Piano thought the OP's post sounded angry. I didn't see any anger. You say I like to marginalize people. These things ARE subjective. I've seen Acting Like Godot say many offensive things too, at least, if you think of it that way. Some people would be offended by all the naked men. I laughed though.

I'll be back later.

[cylon]

Originally Posted by Daffy Duck

I thought the fake cape comparison was really good. Isn't that the point of subjective reality? If I really believe I'm Batman, then I am Batman, am I not? If you think this sounds foolish, then maybe you don't believe in subjective reality. I think it's a little foolish. I think that just because someone thinks they're Batman doesn't mean, objectively, that they are Batman.

Right, you go straight to the extremes. A kid with a cape pretending to be a superhero is a symbol of ignorance, naivete, not being wise to the world. Backwards.

Yet there are scientists pointing out that we can affect the world with our thoughts (yes, I know, it's not real science or their results are being misinterpreted), people who are normal, educated, functioning and productive members of society who are having very strange and interestig experiences that suggest they are influencing reality.... and the first image is the foolish child playing at being a super-hero, ie, don't take these people seriously.

And I'm not saying you SHOULD take it seriously. However in my personal opinion, for a subject you enjoy discussing and thinking about, the natural extension would be to literally try to experience this phenomena so you actually know what you are talking about. And if you had some experiences of your own, at the very least you may see these people not as caricatures who play-act at being superman, or who eat rat poison because they believe they can cheat death.

But then you'd lose the fun of making them objects of amusement.

[Breakaway]

After scanning through the 3 pages of posts, I'd have to side with Daffy. No one else seems to hold any logical arguments.

If you truly think the entire world is something you made up, then why does everybody make up the exact same rate of gravity? why did you and your next door neighbor both manifest the exact same Periodic table? Do you honestly believe that your parents, uncles, grandparents all only existed AFTER you thought about them?

If you really want to believe this, you would also believe that people should never go to jail, since they wouldn't be responsible for their actions because you manifested it all.

And why even bother going on a Vegan diet to be healthy? Why not eat lots of meat and use the Laws of Attraction to MANIFEST meat being healthy for you?

This is easy to test, but you are unwilling to put it on the line.

[James81]

Originally Posted by cylon

I understand that. I would like to ask if I could, why you feel it's necessary to challenge it though. If it's not an active part of your life, then why do you feel the need to challenge it in the first place?

Essentially, I don't feel comfortable giving people advice that I have personally tried and have discovered doesn't work. (so yes, I have tried it)

And then the answer for what I am saying is "obviously I wasn't doing it right".....right? Or I didn't truly believe it.

I also get annoyed at all the useless self help crap that is out there that is so obviously designed just to turn a profit. It's like, where the hell are the people who do this simply because they care about their fellow man? Not that I'm against making a profit from self help, but come on. If you are in the business of giving people advice, offer them something useful. Something that will really, truly help them on some level or inspire them. Don't blow smoke up their butt just to make a royalty.

That's why I love Steve's site. Sure, he's making a profit from this, but there is a mountain of absolute quality advice (and insightful at that) here. And most of it is available for free. No strings attached. One of the things I love about this place, actually.

Originally Posted by moonrambler

In my experience, when people do present a case anything like this, the skeptics find a reason to say it doesn't fit the criteria. I guess it's hard to literally sit around in a room and not interact with the world whatsoever. I've used the example here whenever somebody says "You can't win the lottery without buying a ticket," and mentioned that I've won the lottery three times now (although not large amounts) without buying a ticket. But the skeptics don't seem to think that counts.

And that's exactly my point. You can no more convince me that the LOA had anything to do with that, than I can convince you that I have tried it and it doesn't work and found it to be bunk.

That's the beauty of it. That's the beauty of any great lie. It's unproveable, but circumstantial evidence can be jammed into the mold and offered as "proof."

It's akin to the writings of Nostradomus or Horoscopes. If you leave something vague enough, people will provide the proof for you.

[Daffy Duck]

Originally Posted by cylon

But then you'd lose the fun of making them objects of amusement.

You really don't know me well at all. I have tested LOA techniques and have talked about this in other conversations on the forum. Anyway, I've been nice enough to you. It's okay for people to say that Objectionists are falling into an illusion (delusional), but when I say something similar, you seem quite offended. If you feel like I'm being insulting, then report me to a moderator and let them decide.

[cylon]

Originally Posted by James81

Essentially, I don't feel comfortable giving people advice that I have personally tried and have discovered doesn't work. (so yes, I have tried it)

And then the answer for what I am saying is "obviously I wasn't doing it right".....right? Or I didn't truly believe it.

That isn't what I was going to say. It doesn't bother me that you don't believe in LOA, it's no skin off my back. I was just wondering if it's not an active part of your life, why you feel the need to tell other people it's wrong. For whatever reason I find myself interested in people's motivations for doing things and I tend to ask those types of questions.

Originally Posted by James81

I also get annoyed at all the useless self help crap that is out there that is so obviously designed just to turn a profit. It's like, where the hell are the people who do this simply because they care about their fellow man? Not that I'm against making a profit from self help, but come on. If you are in the business of giving people advice, offer them something useful. Something that will really, truly help them on some level or inspire them. Don't blow smoke up their butt just to make a royalty.

Well that's a valid viewpoint. What you may want to consider though is that to many, it actually works for them. It's not considered crap, it's considered useful information that positively affects people's lives. It may not be your cup of tea, but that doesn't automatically invalidate it for everyone else.

What's your opinion of the people who actually DO get real value out of the self-help crap?

Originally Posted by James81

That's why I love Steve's site. Sure, he's making a profit from this, but there is a mountain of absolute quality advice (and insightful at that) here. And most of it is available for free. No strings attached. One of the things I love about this place, actually.

I agree. But Steve also believes in LOA and SR. Don't you think it's dangerous to on one hand give practical advice, and on the other, to talk about LOA?

Originally Posted by James81

And that's exactly my point. You can no more convince me that the LOA had anything to do with that, than I can convince you that I have tried it and it doesn't work and found it to be bunk.

I have no need to convince you, I already know you don't agree with LOA. I highly doubt you're going to change your mind. I obviously am curious to which LOA materials you read, and what was your method of practicing it,and how long, but it's not really necessary to tell me.

And it's not necessary because you've obviously found something better than LOA. My question is, if it's so much better than LOA, and is fulfilling you, then why the need to tell other people to not believe in it? How does me believing in LOA affect your day to day life?

Originally Posted by James81

That's the beauty of it. That's the beauty of any great lie. It's unproveable, but circumstantial evidence can be jammed into the mold and offered as "proof."

It's akin to the writings of Nostradomus or Horoscopes. If you leave something vague enough, people will provide the proof for you.

Unfortunately that's how I see OR. A big lie. But I don't think it has cruel motives, I just think you're wrong about how the world works. I don't see you as trying to harm me or others with your message.

[cylon]

Originally Posted by Daffy Duck

You really don't know me well at all. I have tested LOA techniques and have talked about this in other conversations on the forum. Anyway, I've been nice enough to you. It's okay for people to say that Objectionists are falling into an illusion (delusional), but when I say something similar, you seem quite offended. If you feel like I'm being insulting, then report me to a moderator and let them decide.

I do think they are falling into a delusion actually, but I don't think they are weird or childish for that. After all I lived most of my life that way, I can understand where they are coming from. I don't think poorly of them for it.

I'll drop it though, as you seem to see it as a personal attack. I apologize if you feel I lumped you in with a group and didn't treat you as an individual.

[Daffy Duck]

I never called it weird or childish. It IS weird though, now that you mention it. Weird = unusual = uncommon. LOA is not a common belief.

I use "LOA techniques" every day. I'm very watchful of my thoughts. I wholeheartedly believe that "As a man thinketh in his heart, so he is."

[cylon]

Well the world "LOA" is relatively new, but the concept has been around forever and is extremely common.

For example buddhists believe all is connected, and that we suffer because we perceive separation when we are all one. That is a very old and widespread belief.

And in the New Testament for example, Jesus talking about having the faith of a mustard seed and moving mountains and that we all can do what he does. That's a pretty widespread teaching.

Both common. Now, many people follow those religions and don't take them literally because they think it's all ancient foolishness. So while it's not uncommon it is probably not as widely practiced (ie, many people say they are christian but when you get down to it, they don't believe the things in the bible actually happened).

[James81]

Originally Posted by cylon

Unfortunately that's how I see OR. A big lie. But I don't think it has cruel motives, I just think you're wrong about how the world works. I don't see you as trying to harm me or others with your message.

I think it's damaging because it's encouraging everybody to sit back and do nothing, and passing that off as change.

And no change comes about by doing nothing. Sorry man, but change comes through action.

The funny thing is that I'm not discounting the entire idea of LOA. All I'm saying is that it's nothing without action. I'm a middle-of-the-road kind of guy. On one hand you have the woo woo thinkers who focus on the mind. On the other you tend to have the people who are down to earth, upfront, and action oriented.

The truth, I've found, lies somewhere in the middle (as it does for most ideas that are out there).

The LOA is great for getting your mind and your beliefs straight. Just not practical advice in and of itself.

Then again, most major changes require a smattering of techniques.

[Daffy Duck]

James, right. That's my observation as well. The most well known and successful people who talk about LOA all have a lot of hard work and action thrown in. They don't just sit in their house imagining things. The whole "woo woo thinking" is what seems silly to me. Even Jesus Christ had a whole lot of actions to back him up.

Getting close to midnight. As I said before, I think I'll stay out of this conversation from here on as I see no growth for me coming from it. Thanks everyone for the thoughts. Interesting day of tennis.

[Angela]

Originally Posted by Daffy Duck

As I said before, I think I'll stay out of this conversation from here on

Yeah, I'll believe it when I don't see it, Rafael.

[Acting Like Godot]

Originally Posted by James81

I would think that, for this theory to be true, there would have to be a case where someone literally sat around in a room on their ass, adjusted their thoughts toward acheiving something, and that something came to them even though they were just sitting in that room the whole time.

Well, it often works like that for me.

However, you don't believe me, do you?

James, over the past few years, I've given numerous examples from my own life on these forums. (Notice the huge number of posts I've made?). I'm not the only one either. There are quite a number of people on this forum who have reached this stage.

But you wouldn't believe us, would you?

That's why I frequently say: the best way is to try it for yourself. After all, you wouldn't deceive yourself, would you? Or if you would, then anyway there is no point trusting that reality is as you currently perceive it to be.

[Acting Like Godot]

Daffy, stop hating your calculus class. After all, it's very objective.

[Acting Like Godot]

Originally Posted by James81

The funny thing is that I'm not discounting the entire idea of LOA. All I'm saying is that it's nothing without action. I'm a middle-of-the-road kind of guy. On one hand you have the woo woo thinkers who focus on the mind. On the other you tend to have the people who are down to earth, upfront, and action oriented.

Action-oriented, yes, that would be me. I can't help it. It's my damned mind, it has all these intentions, and to fulfill those intentions, it makes my hands move, my legs walk, my mouth talk. That's how my mind creates my reality.

Apart from that, my mind also does a huge number of other things to create my reality and fulfill my intentions. Things beyond my own hands, legs, mouth, body ... way beyond my own physical actions basically.

That is what you don't understand yet, you see.

[Breakaway]

Originally Posted by Acting Like Godot

Things beyond my own hands, legs, mouth, body ... way beyond my own physical actions basically.

That is what you don't understand yet, you see.

So instead of constantly talking about all this, why don't you prove it? You say you can sit in a room and not really do anything and things happen through only your intention manifestations right? Okay, manifest the President of the United States and Michael Jordan visiting you sometime tomorow and then take a picture of it. I'm not talking about Photoshop either, I mean a real picture. This way there are 2 possible results:
Either you can prove you have this ability, or you can't prove it.

[Angela]

I suspect ALG is too busy manifesting what HE wants to bother with manifesting what YOU want, Breakaway.

[Acting Like Godot]

Originally Posted by Breakaway

So instead of constantly talking about all this, why don't you prove it? You say you can sit in a room and not really do anything and things happen through only your intention manifestations right? Okay, manifest the President of the United States and Michael Jordan visiting you sometime tomorow and then take a picture of it. I'm not talking about Photoshop either, I mean a real picture. This way there are 2 possible results:
Either you can prove you have this ability, or you can't prove it.

Would you really like to know the answer?

The short answer is as follows. The LOA does have limits. The limits are the extent to which you can focus, control and direct your thought.

One element in that process is desire. (Gee, you might have read that somewhere). Why? Because when you desire X, it's easier to keep thinking about it. In contrast, it's relatively more difficult to focus and build your thought around something that does not interest you.

Hope you are still following me so far.

I do maintain a current record of intentions. I've maintained such a list for years. These are my intentions, my goals, my objectives. These are of interest to me. They relate to matters such as my family; my career; my health; my finances; my spiritual life; my hobbies and so on. The list changes over time, of course - because I fulfill old intentions; I have new intentions, and so on.

Let me tell you three things that are not on that list:

(1) proving the LOA to Breakaway
(2) meeting the President of the United States
(3) meeting Michael Johnson.

One of the things you'll quickly learn about the LOA (I mean, if you are seriously practising it) is that our thought is very precious; and most of us waste a lot of it.

For example, we waste our thought, when we think about things that are trivial or unimportant. We waste our thought, when we focus on things that do not contribute to our wellbeing. We waste our thought, every time we allow ourselves to be distracted from what we have decided is valuable or worthwhile to ourselves.

To think about how to prove the LOA to Breakaway by getting the US President to take a photo with me .... is an incredible waste of thought.

The same effort is better spent, say, how to do my work very well ... .... or visualising a successful launch for my book in June .... or thinking about having a successful completion of my recent home purchase ... or visualise myself being a better, more loving father to my children .... or simply using a positive affirmation on myself.

I hope you're still following.

So I will offer you one little bit of advice. Even if you do not believe at all in the "mystical" or "paranormal" aspects of the LOA, try to understand that your thinking is highly inefficient. For your own benefit, do a little experiment and for one day, or one week, or one month, keep monitoring your own thoughts. Whenever you grow conscious of your own thoughts, simply ask yourself:

"Is this a useful thought? Is this a constructive thought? Is this thought beneficial to me?"

And if it is, then continue to play with it, explore it, develop it, let it expand and grow. But if it is not a useful, constructive or beneficial, then stop immediately.

Just by doing that alone, and consistently, you will find a big increase in the quality of your existence.

[GHI]

Originally Posted by Breakaway

Law of Attraction Article doesn't make sense

You're right. It doesn't. That article was written almost three years ago, when Steve was relatively new to this business of manifesting stuff.

You might be interested in reading what he has to say about the topic today. Here is an article Steve wrote a couple of months ago about the Law of Attraction:
Shifting Your Vibration to Manifest Your Desires

Finally, after three years of searching, he hit the nail right on the head. And I think even you, Breakaway, will find his new explanation plausible.

Originally Posted by Daffy Duck

The most well known and successful people who talk about LOA all have a lot of hard work and action thrown in. They don't just sit in their house imagining things. The whole "woo woo thinking" is what seems silly to me. Even Jesus Christ had a whole lot of actions to back him up.

That's true, and you know why?

Because if a person isn't willing to go out there and make a serious effort, he isn't focused enough. In fact, if you don't feel an unstoppable urge to go out there and do something, you're not focused enough.

See, it isn't the action itself which is important. Action is just a side-effect of the mentality required to manifest most things.

[James81]

Originally Posted by Acting Like Godot

One of the things you'll quickly learn about the LOA (I mean, if you are seriously practising it) is that our thought is very precious; and most of us waste a lot of it.

For example, we waste our thought, when we think about things that are trivial or unimportant. We waste our thought, when we focus on things that do not contribute to our wellbeing. We waste our thought, every time we allow ourselves to be distracted from what we have decided is valuable or worthwhile to ourselves.

Another damaging belief, because it sets up the thought process towards striving for something that people can never acheive: perfection. Or, as you put it, "never wasting a thought."

The thing is, no thought is wasted. Trivial and unimportant things are not a waste of thought. Not every thought needs to contribute to our wellbeing. Sometimes pain and failure are necessary and we should learn to not only face them, but embrace them.

Sorry man, if it works for you, that's fine. If it works for others, that's fine. I just know that I don't live my life like that. And I know that most people with serious issues don't live their life like that either. And any self help product that doesn't, at the very least, somewhere mention getting up and DOING something, is nothing but a farce and a waste of money.

And with that, I'm out. I think I keep repeating myself and we're kinda going in circles. So, I'll do my best to ignore the replies to this. lol

[Angela]

Originally Posted by James81

Not every thought needs to contribute to our wellbeing.

I agree. Not every thought needs to contribute to the thinker's wellbeing, and many people operate in life with a preponderance of thoughts that don't. Many people don't bother too much about deliberately thinking thoughts that feel good when they're thought. And that's why many people don't feel good most of the time -- because they're thinking thoughts that don't contribute to their wellbeing.

Sometimes pain and failure are necessary and we should learn to not only face them, but embrace them.

I agree that that belief is useful -- if you are a person who wants to be full of pain and failure.