Who Is Projecting Who?

[Rocket Surgery]

In his article on Law of Attraction, Steve Pavlina writes the following:

The idea that other people have intentions is an illusion because other people are just projections. Of course, if you strongly believe other people have intentions, then that’s the dream you’ll create for yourself. But ultimately it’s still an illusion.

This is a most intriguing concept to me, yet one that I have much difficulty accepting; at least in the way that Steve phrases it.

The way it reads is that Steve is telling us -- or ME, rather, that I am the only conscious person within the universe that I perceive around me. That everyone else is simply a projection of my own consciousness, without free will, and dependent upon my thoughts to dictate their behavior within this very realistic dream we call physical reality.

If this is true, then Steve Pavlina is nothing more than a character concocted by my imagination within this "great cosmic dream" that I -- assumedly "God" -- created within my mind for the benefit and amusement of the personality you all know as "Rocket Surgery." Of course, in Steve's concept, none of you are actually there even reading this since you're all projections of MY mind, the only one that exists or matters. And any responses to this post will also be fabrications of MY mind which, I suppose, serve the purpose to solidify MY illusion that you are all real people and NOT the projections that he/I claim you to be.

At the end of his/my article, he/I say....

I too am just a manifestation of your consciousness. I play the role you expect me to play. If you expect me to be a helpful guide, I will be. If you expect me to be profound and insightful, I will be. If you expect me to be confused or deluded, I will be. But of course there’s no distinct ME that is separate from YOU. I’m just one of your many creations. I am what you intend me to be. But deep down you already knew that, didn’t you?

Okay, now... that's what his/my concept SEEMS to be saying. But since all this is merely an exercise in cosmic mental masturbation, allow ME -- the only REAL mind in all reality, to offer a different take on the concept.

I can wrap my mind around the idea of there being only ONE great cosmic consciousness, and that all reality takes place within the mind and imagination of that same entity. I just have an awfully hard time with the idea that you are all projections of MY mind. And when I say MY, I mean the self-aware personality currently typing at this keyboard; not the OCC. Or OUCC. I don't have to spell out the initials. You're me, after all, so you know what they stand for.

Anyway, I think that perhaps I would like to interpret the above quotes another way. Maybe Steve is correct, but thinking about reality in this manner certainly tends to distract from what I believe to be a quite purposeful illusion.

While it may be true that AT A MUCH HIGHER LEVEL, I am in reality the OUCC, it seems to me to make more sense that I am ALSO a sub-category of consciousness created who-knows-how-long-ago as one of countless projections of the OCC for the purpose of experiencing reality through one of countless unique perspectives. I believe that the person known on this board as Rocket Surgery is no more or less "real" than each and every one of you, and that each and every ONE of us is a unique "point of EXPERIENCE" of the greater OCC.

I spend much of my time editing non-linear video. All video is captured to the hard disk from a SINGLE tape recording. From there, it is broken into "clips" which are in turn broken down into "subclips" for the purpose of better focus on the content thereof. Yet each clip and subclip, although assigned its own filename/identity, is in reality just a part of the ONE master tape.

So, am I the "master tape" of the universe? No. I am a subclip which contains a very small part of the whole picture. Each of you is a seperate subclip -- some no more than a frame or so different from me -- but still uniquely you when viewed from that perspective. You are not a part of me anymore than I am part of you, yet we are all connected to each other for we are all a part of the Master Tape that gave birth to us all.

The only way that I can sort of "buy into" Steve's perspective is by looking at reality through the "all things happen at once" filter, where I accept that Time-Space is a creation of the OCC in order to put events within a framework that they may be more closely studied by the OCC through the perspectives of we subclips -- er, physical human beings, to wit:

All Things Happen in the now, the present, and since Time has no meaning to the OCC, then He/She/All-That-Is has already experienced every other life I see around me, and is currently focusing on MY -- Rocket Surgery's -- particular experiences. When this personality "dies," the OCC will then shift focus to some other POE and experience that persective fully -- perhaps that of my wife.

So, basically, as John Lennon once put it.... "I am he as you are he as you are me and we are all together..." My wife is also self-aware just as I am, only at a different time from the OCC's perspective. The OCC's focus is not limited to physical time-space, therefore the OCC can focus completely through each and every one of us in turn... but from our perspective the OCC is focusing through everybody at the same time.

Like time travel in the movies, you can visit yourself in the past. You know its' the same consciousness in both versions of you, but you experience only one of them at a time, even though both occupy the same point in time-space. So the OCC is like a time traveler in that respect perhaps.

Each one of you "feels" like the current focus of the OCC because YOU ARE! As am I. The OCC is not only the ultimate time traveler, but is in actuality, a TIME-SPACE traveler, able to occupy all spaces (POE's) at any point in space-time it chooses. It's indeed all happening at the same time, but to the OCC, it's ONE at a time.

That's all I got for now. Any thoughts?

~ RS

[Dharma]

I just have an awfully hard time with the idea that you are all projections of MY mind. And when I say MY, I mean the self-aware personality currently typing at this keyboard; not the OCC. Or OUCC. I don't have to spell out the initials. You're me, after all, so you know what they stand for.

I must admit I did not read your whole post... too long for me. I'm responding to the quote above.

I am not a projection of your mind... the mind doesn't create anything. I am a manifestation of your consciousness. Your self-aware personality is a tiny tiny part of you that is very unaware of its vastness.

I am entirely real. I am consciousness that right now is present in the physical plane typing this to you/me.

[Rocket Surgery]

Originally Posted by Dharma

I must admit I did not read your whole post... too long for me. I'm responding to the quote above.

First, had you read the entire post, the quote you did respond to would have been viewed in context, and you would not have felt the need to respond defensively since I basically agree with you.

Secondly, given the topic of this discussion, what's your hurry? ;-)

~ RS

[DoAnyOfYouExist]

RS you are talking to me bro, thats all I have to say right now.

[Dharma]

Originally Posted by Rocket Surgery

First, had you read the entire post, the quote you did respond to would have been viewed in context, and you would not have felt the need to respond defensively since I basically agree with you.

Secondly, given the topic of this discussion, what's your hurry? ;-)

~ RS

Ok, so you answered you own question. My bad.

It's not really a hurry thing. It's how much stuff do I want to hold in my head at one time. I guess I believe it is work to read a long post and keep your train of thought and concepts in my head. I'm being lazy I guess.

[yacapo]

I just have a hard time believing that all the stupid people in the world are part of the same consciousness that I'm a part of. There are just so many ignorant people out there, I would hate to think I have something to do with their existance.

[eternomi]

Originally Posted by Rocket Surgery

Any thoughts?

I agree with you in that every "thing" we see is conscious and alive. Even the things we normally think are not alive such as rocks, stars, buildings etc. They have their own will and their own consciousness in a way you can call "separate than your consciousness", but obviously we cannot comprehend it. Theirs may not even be as complex as ours. I don't know. We have a hard time comprehending any other consciousness that lies outside of the human consciousness. The very top-level "God" can experience them all and in fact He does simultaneously. You are one of those many.

On the other hand, I also agree with Steve in that what you see has to do with your own consciousness. What shows up, what you experience is purely due to you and nothing outside of you. Each consciousness is a complete entity. Most people think their consciousness is comprised of their physical body, but to me, this is a very limited, insufficient scope. You have to expand that scope to "anything you are aware of in the physical or mental space-time continuum".

There is still no tug-of-war of intentions or contradictions. What you hold true in your consciousness space (not just any thought, but beliefs) will show up eventually. The correct type of consciousness needed to manifest your beliefs will show up within your consciousness space to have you experience what you hold to be true internally.

That's how I see it.

If this is true, then we'd better get everyone to genuinely believe "people rock!". Otherwise, even if a single person thinks "people suck!", then someone will have to be that consciousness to manifest this thought in that other person's consciousness space.

This actually gets very complicated very fast.. Because supposedly, the "God" consciousness intended everything as is.. Will we ever get everyone to believe "people rock!"? Who knows... But at least you better believe it yourself to avoid the wrath of consciousnesses that respond to "people suck!". Of course believing means acting in a way that supports the belief. You can't think people rock and then call them names or avoid them in fear...

Sorry.. I rambled a lot.

[magickmystik]

[DoAnyOfYouExist]

Originally Posted by yacapo

I just have a hard time believing that all the stupid people in the world are part of the same consciousness that I'm a part of. There are just so many ignorant people out there, I would hate to think I have something to do with their existance.

Were you not ignorant once, and are you not still ignorant to many things? Could these "ignorant" people not be old pieces of you?

[Julio]

As i see it, it's kind of hard accept the SR mindset if you think from your ego's point of view.

In this matter, when i say "I" i dont think in my physical body, because I Am not this physical body. This body it's just a tool that i use to experience this physical world, in a video game context: I am the player (real me, or god) not the character into the Game (physical body into a physical world).

[NightOwlNation]

Originally Posted by Rocket Surgery

Steve is telling us -- or ME, rather, that I am the only conscious person within the universe that I perceive around me. That everyone else is simply a projection of my own consciousness, without free will, and dependent upon my thoughts to dictate their behavior within this very realistic dream we call physical reality....

Definitely not saying you are the only conscious person...that goes more to objective again. You are Consciousness itself. The One Consciousness that is here. Like the same ocean filling an infinite number of containers.

"What are people in subjective reality?

People, including your own avatar, are projections of consciousness. They are not projections of your ego; your ego itself is a projection of consciousness as well.

Every human being is effectively a physical representation of part of the contents of consciousness. You are that consciousness, so every human being is a manifestation of a part of you. Consequently, everyone is significant and meaningful — there are no irrelevant or inconsequential people.

Every person you create in your reality is the manifestation of a thought. Every unique person represents a specific aspect of consciousness itself… a specific aspect of you....

What are human relationships?

Human relationships are the physical representation of the relationships between different parts of the content of consciousness. Whatever thoughts are contained in your consciousness will manifest in the form of human relationships.

For example, if you hold thoughts of conflict in your consciousness, you will perceive conflict between people. The people in your reality will seek to harm each other. If you hold thoughts of love in your consciousness, you will perceive loving relationships between people.

If you hold thoughts of attractiveness, new relationships will come to your avatar. If you hold thoughts of repulsiveness, your avatar will manifest that in his/her relationships...."

From: http://www.stevepavlina.com/blog/200...ctive-reality/

[ethereal]

My understanding of it is, our true identity is the Awareness underlying everything, and not our personal consciousness. Our personal consciousness is just a projection of the OCC. Without the subjective Awareness of God, consciousness would not exist. Consciousness is change, and what changes must occur against an un-changing backdrop in order to even exist, and Awareness/God/the real "you" is that backdrop.

The way we think of ourselves is like the center of a circle of consciousness, and the entire temporal-spacial universe represents the circumference of it. That circle is our "subjective reality." However, God being outside yet inclusive of time-space, is like being the center of every consciousness, and having no circumference. Our ego believes that our identity is the center of this circle we circumscribed about ourselves, and it thinks that being the "center" it is special and separate from the rest of the circle, but our true identity is what gave rise to subjective awareness in the first place, i.e. God being the centers of all possible circles.

A similar analogy is one that Steve talked about:

The body analogy

Suppose you’re convinced that you are your left thumb and nothing more than that. This is your total identity. You’re certain that you’re a thumb.

What is the right thumb then? From your perspective it is an entirely separate and autonomous thumb. It seems similar to you, and you feel a vague sense of connectedness, but in most ways the two of you appear independent.

Now what if that other thumb comes to you one day and says, “Hey! Do you realize you’re not just a thumb? You’re the whole human body?”

To you that is like saying, “You are God.” It sounds ludicrous.

So you tell the other thumb, “I know you’re crazy, but I’m an open-minded thumb, so I’ll give you a chance. Prove to me that I’m the whole body.”

Your friend replies, “I cannot prove to you that you’re the whole body while you cling to the perspective that you’re only a thumb. You have to release that belief first. Then I can begin to show you that you’re a body that has a thumb, not merely a thumb by itself.”

And you say, “But I cannot let go of the belief that I’m a thumb. I’m certain of it. Wait — I can prove it to you. See… I can move my own thumb body, but I cannot move yours. That proves I’m only a thumb.”

Your friend says, “That proves you believe you’re a thumb, but the only way to prove you’re not the whole body is to believe you’re the body and see if you can do more than a mere thumb can.”

You reply, “I’m unwilling to do that unless you can show me some proof first. Believing I’m more than a thumb is so crazy as to be unbelievable.”

Your friend says, “From the perspective that you’re really the whole body, the belief that you’re only a thumb is far more crazy. It limits your existence immensely. In truth the reason you’re unwilling to test the possibility that you’re the whole body is that you’re afraid… afraid of what it will mean if in fact you are the whole body and have been living unnecessarily as a thumb this whole time. You fear the power and the responsibility that the larger role would entail. You would also lose the ability to complain about your thumb ailments, unwilling to admit that you’ve been the cause all along. You’ve become attached to the illusion of security from life as a thumb.”

Your friend continues, “If you wish to believe you’re only a thumb, that is entirely your choice. But the perspective that you’re the whole body is nevertheless there for the taking when you’re ready to let go of your fear and claim it. You can deny that role as long as you like, but remaining a thumb only allows you to give away control, never responsibility. Deep down you know your greatest fear isn’t that a whole body belief system will cripple your ability to function as a thumb. Your greatest fear is that you really are a whole body, and what will that mean? It will make you responsible for the entire body, and you feel totally inadequate to the task. But in truth you’re already responsible; making yourself small serves only to feed your fears. It’s not the real you. Deep down you already know that you are far more than just a thumb.”

Believing you’re nothing more than a human body in a world that’s out of your control is an inherently limiting perspective, ultimately one that’s rooted in fear. You’re free to place such limitations on your life, but when you do so, you’re essentially saying, “Let me be less than I am.” And after living this way for so long, you begin to accept it as reality, even though it’s a reality you’ve created from a place of fear and contraction. The alternative is to create from a place of joy and expansion, but this level of creation is not available to you as long as you cling to the belief that you’re “just a body.”

I think it's a useful analogy, but I feel that he did not explain the following point clearly enough; your identity is that of the whole body, but your ego/avatar/personal consciousness is still that of the thumb. It is just that the thumb realizes that there is no separation between thumb and body, and that "thumb" is just a mental concept, just as much as "I" is a mental concept. When that realization occurs, then the thumb realizes that the other fingers, legs, organs, cells, even its own fingernail, are all equal to itself, because they are all the body. Likewise, when enlightenment occurs, you realize that you are just as much God as anybody else. Your ego/avatar still plays the role of a thumb, but now it doesn't need to fight the other fingers or strive for its own survival, it realizes that they are all One and that the body's circulation and immune system and conscious guidance was what ensured the existence and survival of the thumb in the first place. In fact, we can take it even further and say that all the actions the thumb did were not the thumb's actions at all, but the body's actions acting through the thumb.

I think the trouble is when the thumb believes that it is like a body, rather than knowing that its true identity is the body. Our egos think we are ultimately God, and in a sense we are, but only at the level of identity, not at the level of function. A thumb can't start ordering the other fingers around and tell them to do what it wants; it can only follow the body's orders to the best of its abilities and trust that the body knows what is best for its thumbs and fingers.