Steve's opinion on Porn

[Joyous]

I like to know because I am confused with it,

is porn good or bad?

Quote from blog post 'Polyamory Resources',

For obvious reasons the porn business community is very poly-friendly. Since there was a major adult convention in Las Vegas earlier this month, I had the opportunity to hang out with a few porn stars. I found them very easy-going and friendly, and I enjoyed some great conversations about relationships, polyamory, sex, and more. I was surprised to discover how much we had in common, including a shared allergy to highly judgmental, close-minded people.

This remark encouraged me to write this post, because I am confused with porn, I donno how to deal my porn desires and I like Steve's opinion on this.

Thanks

[supertom]

He just means people with "werid" lifestyles are more interesting as people because they are open to other non- normal lifestyles. thats what i think

[Parthon]

Nothing is good or bad, so the question doesn't make sense. Now if you are asking whether porn has a positive or negative impact, or if it's moral, or if it's ethical, or if it's widely accepted, then you could get a concrete answer.

I'll answer the impact one, I like discussing impact.

The impact of porn can be positive or negative. On one hand you have people who exploit people or take advantage of people's carnal desires in order to make a few bucks.

On the other side though, you can have open and willing people who are exploring their sexuality and choosing to share it with the world. Nothing wrong with that at all.

It all depends on how you look at it, and what you believe in. Porn, just like *anything* else, isn't inherently good or bad.

[magic1]

your behavior dosnt matter in the slightest, from a quantum level...its how you feel....cliche but just sooooooooo true

[Xanafax]

magic taking your quantum theory I could say nothing matters, structurally there is no difference between a living person and a dead person, no difference between a person and a rock, or a tree, or an ocean.

Feelings least of all have any importance whatsoever.

[Joyous]

Originally Posted by supertom

He just means people with "werid" lifestyles are more interesting as people because they are open to other non- normal lifestyles. thats what i think

Is there anything wrong in asking weather he watch porn or not? and his opinion about it.

[sirkinm]

It's surprising to me the degree to which porn is becoming increasingly mainstream. More and more people are talking about it in a casual manner.

I think we can generally predict Steve's answer by putting the question into the Truth-Love-Power-o-matic 5000, which will give us statements on how it aligns with these three principles. As far as whether Steve engages in watching porn, who knows. If he does, I bet he does it in a healthy and mindful fashion, using avocado oil and a dye-free, hypo-allergenic towel under his butt while surfing YouPorn. Jk -- I couldn't help myself, so no disrespect!! I've had many towel-under-butt solitary experiences on the computer.

BTW, I love how S.P. is taking on sexuality this year, and I think the impact of his exploration of unconventional, non-monogamous relationships will be positive and widespread. I always wondered why his thoughts on romance and sexuality were lacking in the past, and I'm looking forward to everything he has to contribute.

[Keith]

My 2c:

(a) There is nothing intrinsically wrong with pornography. i.e. pictures and film (etc.) that portray sexuality for the enjoyment of the viewer.

(b) A lot of pornography is disempowering to women. Some is overtly violent, some indicates that women will automatically agree to sexual propositions - no matter how crude or unwarranted ("Hey babe, let's shag", "Oooh, okay!").

In other words, a lot of the pornography out there is very non-conscious.

P.S. I too would be very interested to hear Steve's response.

[Parthon]

I'm wondering:

Why is porn disempowering to just women in most people's views? Why is it not also disempowering to men?

I think most porn degrades both, men are seen as animalistic pigs and women as sex objects.

Discuss.

[magic1]

that's not because of the behavior, its only because of how we have chosen to wrap ideas around it....what if we woke up one day, and thought...hey lets make porn a beautiful thing, and suddenly we all decided to believe its amazing....would it be wrong then....

hey we do this all the time....being gay was not accepted last century and now it is....

[Joyous]

Originally Posted by Keith

My 2c:

P.S. I too would be very interested to hear Steve's response.

I am only interested in how Steve see Porn and how Steve manages this thread. Its not like harming him or challenging him, all self-help gurus have certain responsibility towards his/hers readers, because of the nature of Self-Help.

Why cant Steve disclose his opinion on porn?

[ssandra]

Originally Posted by Keith

My 2c:

(a) There is nothing intrinsically wrong with pornography. i.e. pictures and film (etc.) that portray sexuality for the enjoyment of the viewer.

(b) A lot of pornography is disempowering to women. Some is overtly violent, some indicates that women will automatically agree to sexual propositions - no matter how crude or unwarranted ("Hey babe, let's shag", "Oooh, okay!").

In other words, a lot of the pornography out there is very non-conscious.

P.S. I too would be very interested to hear Steve's response.

I agree with your point A, but not with point B.

What is more empowering for a woman to be able to say YES (or NO) when somebody says "hey baby lets shag".

I also don´t see how you come to the conclusion that there is a lot of pornography out there that is very non-conscious?

About the violence, there is a market for it, a lot of people like it, therefor it is made. As long as it is a fantasy, not reality, I don´t see the problem.

I think porn is all about woman empowerment. Owning your own body and deciding what to do with it, based on what you want, not what society tells you.

[sirkinm]

In the end, it's simply someone with a video camera filming sexual situations, and the sex that takes place can have all the same nuances of unfilmed sex: Sometimes exploitation is involved, sometimes it's empowering, sometimes it's the healthy playing out of violent fantasies, etc. People who take a all-or-nothing view seem to be missing a lot of the nuance -- I remember seeing a presentation of porn from a feminist perspective (obviously, there are many different feminist perspectives), and it made no distinction between Playboy and snuff films in condemning porn.

As for Steve's opinion, I don't see why he has a responsibility to tell us his view. Though as I posted earlier, we can probably discern his view by applying the principles he lays out in his book and elsewhere.

[Keith]

Originally Posted by Parthon

Why is porn disempowering to just women in most people's views? Why is it not also disempowering to men?

Because most porn shows the male in a position of power and the woman in a subservient role.

Originally Posted by ssandra

I agree with your point A, but not with point B.

What is more empowering for a woman to be able to say YES (or NO) when somebody says "hey baby lets shag".

Nothing. But the regularity with which it happens in porn makes it seem like the women are basically just there for the men to have sex with. There's never a possibility they might say "no" because they have no independent will.

Often they don't even appear to particularly enjoy the sex - they just participate in it because that's their role.

Originally Posted by ssandra

I also don´t see how you come to the conclusion that there is a lot of pornography out there that is very non-conscious?

About the violence, there is a market for it, a lot of people like it, therefore it is made. As long as it is a fantasy, not reality, I don´t see the problem.

I think porn is all about woman empowerment. Owning your own body and deciding what to do with it, based on what you want, not what society tells you.

It is possibly empowering for the porn actresses. It is rarely empowering for the characters they portray on-screen, which is all the viewers are seeing.

Over time, people subconsciously absorb the repeated message. In the same way Steve advocates avoiding the news because your subconscious absorbs the negativity, I advocate avoiding most pornography because your subconscious absorbs a negative stereotypical image of women from them.

Like I said at the start: there's nothing intrinsically wrong with pornography, but it's often implemented in a disempowering way. I'd like to see more pornography produced that portrays women as human beings with individual personalities as well as individuals who are wanting to have sex.

Originally Posted by Joyous

I am only interested in how Steve see Porn and how Steve manages this thread. Its not like harming him or challenging him, all self-help gurus have certain responsibility towards his/hers readers, because of the nature of Self-Help.

Why cant Steve disclose his opinion on porn?

He's probably just busy at the moment. Hopefully he'll turn up soon.

[sirkinm]

Originally Posted by Keith

I'd like to see more pornography produced that portrays women as human beings with individual personalities as well as individuals who are wanting to have sex.

Keith, I'm not sure you're really thinking this through. Are you wanting there to be porn where the actress portrays a multidimensional, nuanced character? How do you suggest they go about doing this, and should the characters be establishing their personalities for 45 min before they bang, or do they do it while they're banging? Can you describe more accurately this porn that you'd like to see?

Much of the porn these days doesn't bother with a story or characters, and the porn that does has such a contrived story that obviously only serves as a premise to have sex, because that is the convention in pornos (one that is probably going away as porn is now it's own thing and no longer derivative of Hollywood movies).

Yes, I think it's probably bad for the psyche to beat-off to scenes where women are obviously not enjoying themselves. And I think that both pro-porn and anti-porn arguments have merit. But for the knee-jerk response to porn that says, "Well I just think porn should show empowered women who say 'no' to men and have well-developed personalities," I think it misses the mark and adds little to the discussion, but maybe it just needs further explanation.

[Keith]

Sirkinm, you seem to be implying that it's not possible to make a viable porn movie which portrays women as real human beings. If that were true, then porn is simply something that's not of value to a conscious individual.

But I don't believe that it is true. I've seen porn which portrays (for example) an affectionate human relationship between characters.

You don't need 45 minutes of back story. You just need the people on screen to interact with each other as though they're actual human beings with some sort of emotional connection rather than props.

[Dan.Linehan]

Originally Posted by Keith

You just need the people on screen to interact with each other as though they're actual human beings with some sort of emotional connection rather than props.

It's not like there isn't plenty of porn out there like what you're describing.

Just like normal movies there is porn with good acting and bad acting, high and low budgets, authentic and non-authentic plots and characterization, etc.

Different strokes for different folks. (couldn't resist)

[TiffyLove]

If your questioning it because you like it, then you are questioning yourself? It doesn't matter whether it is good or bad to steve or anyone else?

Do YOU think it is good or bad? Or do you feel good about yourself when you decide not to watch it or do you feel good about yourself when you watch it?

Only you can answer whether it serves you or not (not in the urge but serves who you are)

[Andrew Gubb]

I gave up porn a while back. It's unnatural, I mean it conditions you to respond sexually to something you woudn't normally, it's antisocial, ejaculation is draining (I'm training myself to orgasm without ejaculation in sex, but even sex with ejaculation has an energy flow which compensates that to an extent)... I feel like I'm settling for second best, in effect. No, I do not like porn at all

[ssandra]

Originally Posted by Keith

Because most porn shows the male in a position of power and the woman in a subservient role.
....

I still don´t see why that is disempowering in women... I don´t like to be in a position of power when it comes to sex. I like to choose. I like to have it my decision.

I don´t like society forcing me to "like" one thing or another, weather it is being in power or being powerless. I want to do what I want, not what I should want. My porn watching habits reflect that.

And apparently for more people, because if there wasn´t a markt, they wouldn´t make it.

And maybe you just watch the wrong kind of porn. I have seen plenty where the women are the ones initiating sex, being on top (position of power) and are seeming to enjoy themselves.

Personally, if I want to see a nice movie with caracters etc I go and rent a "normal" movie.

I watch porn because it turns me on to see naked bodies having sex. I don´t care about a story or caracter. And there are more people like me, otherwise again, there wouldn´t be that kind of porn.

Everybody their own style, and it is ok if you don´t like porn, but it doesn´t mean that it is bad

(sexuality and the way people try to force other people to their own point of view is something I feel very strong about)

[sirkinm]

Great post, Sandra.

Originally Posted by Keith

Sirkinm, you seem to be implying that it's not possible to make a viable porn movie which portrays women as real human beings. If that were true, then porn is simply something that's not of value to a conscious individual.

You don't need 45 minutes of back story. You just need the people on screen to interact with each other as though they're actual human beings with some sort of emotional connection rather than props.

Keith, I still think you're missing the mark, and Sandra here illustrates how porn CAN have value, even if it doesn't portray an "emotional connection," "affectionate relationship," equal power between partners, or whatever else you're finding necessary for it to be of "value to a conscious individual."

Are you saying that sex must always coincide with an emotional bond? I think you're bringing your personal baggage and preconceptions about sex and portraying that as necessary for porn to be of value.

Your preferences are fine, but to condemn porn that doesn't adhere to them is short-sighted. Obviously if people are truly violated or dehumanized it is bad, but what the heck is wrong with, say, depicting sex in a way that is purely animalistic and not at all affectionate? Are you here to tell us that watching that, fantasizing about that, etc., indicates a "non-conscious" person.

[Keith]

Originally Posted by sirkinm

Are you saying that sex must always coincide with an emotional bond?

I never said always anything.

I'm surprised by the strength of your reaction. It comes across as a bit defensive.

P.S. "Animalistic" sex demonstrates an emotional connection too - passion. Far preferable to a mechanical "going through the motions", IMO.

[sirkinm]

Originally Posted by Keith

I never said always anything.

I'm surprised by the strength of your reaction. It comes across as a bit defensive.

P.S. "Animalistic" sex demonstrates an emotional connection too - passion. Far preferable to a mechanical "going through the motions", IMO.

I don't feel defensive -- I have no guilt or porn addiction if that's what you're getting at. I'd actually like to consume more porn, but I barely have the time or inclination, partly due to a live-in gf.

But if I sound aggressive, it's because I think we have to watch out for stuff that sounds right, but in fact contain dangerous or unhealthy assumptions and ideas. I'm not attacking you personally, and I would have the same reaction if the subject were something much less controversial -- say, dancing or television -- and someone said, "X type of dancing has no value because...," or that type of thing. Other people gave you strong rebuttals too, probably because they know that when you make broad statements peppered with key words ("disempowering," "subservient," "non-conscious"), it negatively affects the chance to have an intelligent discussion.

You said that porn that doesn't portray people as real human beings has no value to conscious people. Again, it sounds like the right thing to say, but what does it mean? Can you give an example of porn not showing people as humans? Most porn at least tries to show emotion, even if it fails miserably, so I just have no idea what you're talking about.

[Andrew Brunelle]

The question I have for the person who started this thread is: Who cares what Steve thinks of porn? What matters is what you think about it. If Steve said that porn was immoral or moral would that change your outlook on it? Just because of his opinion? Sorry to sound so blunt, but something as trivial as this doesn't matter in the long run.

[sirkinm]

Originally Posted by Andrew Brunelle

TWho cares what Steve thinks of porn?

I agree. It's obvious the original poster has a lot of respect for Steve, and that's great, but it borders on hero worship if you need his opinion on every important matter (if porn can be said to be important).

[Joyous]

Originally Posted by Andrew Brunelle

The question I have for the person who started this thread is: Who cares what Steve thinks of porn? What matters is what you think about it. If Steve said that porn was immoral or moral would that change your outlook on it? Just because of his opinion? Sorry to sound so blunt, but something as trivial as this doesn't matter in the long run.

I care Steve's opinion on porn, becoz Steve talks about all issues in life, When I read Steve, I read Steve as a person. I am not very concerned about weather he says right or wrong, what I care is Steve's consciousness, I am more interested in knowing Steve as a person, and his existential expressions.

So his opinion on porn is important, and his attitude towards this thread is also important.

[Andrew Gubb]

Originally Posted by Andrew Brunelle

The question I have for the person who started this thread is: Who cares what Steve thinks of porn? What matters is what you think about it. If Steve said that porn was immoral or moral would that change your outlook on it? Just because of his opinion? Sorry to sound so blunt, but something as trivial as this doesn't matter in the long run.

Well, Steve's an amazing guy, and it would be interesting to hear what he says about the matter. You don't need to worship him to get value out of what he says.

I reckon the guy hasn't spoken up because he hasn't thought this matter over enough to give us a dazzling opinion though

[Savage]

I prefer pornstars live and in person. The videos are fake. The people are more real and interesting behind the scenes.

I've met a few pornstars, strippers, and others who work in the adult industry, so for me it's not a faceless thing. I've made some friends in that field. There's a photo of me with a blond pornstar on my Facebook page that was taken in January. I also spent time hanging out with Johnny Soporno and his g/f Violet Marcell, and they came over to our house and hung out with me and Erin a couple times. Google her name if you'd like to find her site (explicit).

I really don't know how the adult industry works on the inside, but the people I know who work in the field don't seem to mind it. In fact, they seem pretty happy with the high pay for doing something they enjoy. I have to admit I was amused, but also impressed, by the time and energy they spend working on their skills.

If you like watching porn, enjoy it guilt-free. If you don't like it, feel free to diddle yourself w/o it, or get someone else to help you. IMO having a partner is a lot more fun than watching a video though.

[Angela]

Originally Posted by Steve Pavlina

diddle

{{{{{ Ohhhh, }}}}}} that's such a horrible sounding word... I think only the cat and the fiddle should be allowed to do that....

[Plato]

Does masturbation dissipate one's energy?

I find it does to an extent.

Then again, if I haven't had sex in a while I get really pent up and feel much better for letting go of the energy, even via...diddling.