Confused about Light/Darkworker

[aphorist]

I've just recently found Steve's blog and as I'm reading further and further into his previous posts, I found the articles on Lightworkers and Darkworkers. I feel like I personally relate to the Darkworker side, but I don't understand how it involves taking advantage of everyone. I currently "use" people who have knowledge and wisdom, but those people are all willing and able to help. Furthermore, it's really not in my best interest to tie them up or force ideas from them.

So my question is, if, as a darkworker, I have no interest in monetary or social gain, then to truly polarize, do I still have to harm other people?

It seems to me like people fall out of the equation, like a true darkworker would be apathetic to people, with no use of helping or harming them. I have no desire to gain status or wealth, which seem to be what the discussions are all about. In reality, it's actually better for me to buy people lunch and appear humble (might be harming people through lying) so that they will share their knowledge with me. Is there a conflict in this scenario? Should I just embed this mindset and see if there are conflicts?

With everyone talking about the darkworker like it's the more extreme, unacceptable option, I'm trying to figure out how socially "evil" it really is.

[magi13]

interesting point of view.

maybe the post he wrote about has something to do with the people who are invisibly controlling the society or those who are lawful evil who take advantage of people's weakness.

how do you interpret steve's words? as much as possible try to apply is as it is, then see it in an alternative point of view and choose the one that works for you.

it's just another classification of the rich who have friends in position. they may not actually be dark workers, but just part of the system.

so this part can be really really vague.

pm steve, he should be able to tell you the difference. in your case you may even be classified as a light worker. >,<

[Eric Revelin]

Darkworkers don't have to be bastards. The key tenet is, "honor thyself". If you can honor yourself by truly enjoying someone else's company then by all means do so. You can't follow a self-focused path and forsake your nature. That's counterproductive.

Darkworkers are capable of love for the same reason everyone else is- it feels good. They're likely to have a code of honor where they will only destroy those who insist on attacking them. They are capable of showing gratitude, they're just very selective when doing so. Generally you'll have to work a lot harder to earn a darkworker's respect than you would with other people.

For much more comprehensive perspective than I can provide, I'd recommend going here: Welcome to the Crimson Curtain! This site will show you what it's like to be a darkworker without being a dick.

[aphorist]

Thanks for the link Eric... I'll have to go reading. It does seem like it should be possible, but are you fully "polarized" and opening the doors to new potential if you're even remotely worried about being a dick?

It may just come down to a values thing, in which case society should have no problem with the darkworker i'm proposing.

[Plato]

Huh?

The appeal of darkworking, no, the whole POINT of it is the state of absolute dominance. This is not an objective thing. It is a feeling of power, energy and dominance that totally consumes and drives you. It's a furious rage that will not be withheld.

It smashes through limiting beliefs. It stampedes over obstacles you encounter. It will not be controlled by others. It will have it's way at any cost.

That happens when you have built up enough fear energy.

To understand darkworking you need to become aware of what your beliefs are whilst in that state.

I really don't recommend that website. Our friend Asmoday doesn't understand.

[MasterD]

Originally Posted by Plato

Huh?

The appeal of darkworking, no, the whole POINT of it is the state of absolute dominance. This is not an objective thing. It is a feeling of power, energy and dominance that totally consumes and drives you. It's a furious rage that will not be withheld.

It smashes through limiting beliefs. It stampedes over obstacles you encounter. It will not be controlled by others. It will have it's way at any cost.

That happens when you have built up enough fear energy.

To understand darkworking you need to become aware of what your beliefs are whilst in that state.

I really don't recommend that website. Our friend Asmoday doesn't understand.

Plato, you seem to understand this distinction.

I am having my doubts about this whole lightworker/darkworker distinction the more I read and think about it. It seems to me that it is just a nice theory Steve made up combining some different interesting psychological concepts, but having no truth in reality whatsoever. Of course I could be wrong, and if so I am open to be proved the contrary, but I just don't see it in reality.

To me, what are so-called darkworkers, are just heavily ego-dominated individuals, like Hitler, Stalin, etc.. but these weren't happy persons I would say. It seems to me that these guys were more like 'run by the mind' rather than 'using their minds in a creative way' for a purpose they felt really connected to. That is not consciousness.

Further, guys, like Donald Trump aren't either darkworkers or lightworkers. Such highly succesfull guys are just very passionate about the work they are doing and therefore making a lot of money with it. Also many successfull guys go rockhard for themselves first, but once they reached a certain level of success they decide to give back to society.

Of course I know the feeling that you are talking about. It's a great and powerful feeling and drives me to action, however it doesn't mean that I will be totally self-interested (though I may appear to be very selfish to the outside world) in the long term. I am very aware of the fact that it drives me to action and makes me to do things, but I may very well use the power I accumulate to give it back later to society.

[Plato]

Originally Posted by MasterD

Of course I know the feeling that you are talking about. It's a great and powerful feeling and drives me to action, however it doesn't mean that I will be totally self-interested (though I may appear to be very selfish to the outside world) in the long term. I am very aware of the fact that it drives me to action and makes me to do things, but I may very well use the power I accumulate to give it back later to society.

Yeah, the thing is you can't really use this state for good purposes. It is inherently destructive.

The road to hell is paved with good intentions.

My belief is that if you want to do real good in the world, which is to bring love, acceptance and peace to all human beings your tools are understanding, compassion, and courage.

To think the end justifies the means is fear mentality. A "lightworker" realises that material things don't matter, even physical suffering and death. Trying to save another person from suffering is futile. The best gift they can be given is love, which helps the person move towards a perspective of oneness.

[Eric Revelin]

Originally Posted by aphorist

Thanks for the link Eric... I'll have to go reading. It does seem like it should be possible, but are you fully "polarized" and opening the doors to new potential if you're even remotely worried about being a dick?

It may just come down to a values thing, in which case society should have no problem with the darkworker i'm proposing.

It not a matter of whether or not you're a dick so much as why. Motivation and intention are key.

[MasterD]

Originally Posted by Plato

Yeah, the thing is you can't really use this state for good purposes. It is inherently destructive.

I don't agree. I can exhibit a great amount of fear energy to other people and make them change their lifes in a positive way without me benefiting from it whatsoever other than that it feels good and that it is a method of self-expression. It is a feeling of 'If you succeed, fine, if you don't, also fine, I will be just on my path, but you, yourself, have to take responsibility for your life. I will love you from a distance, but I won't let you come to close.'. I think it is very good to mix up fear and love energy every now and then.

As a so-called 'lightworker' I think you will definitely benefit from using fear energy when the time is right. If you need to get things done that have a positive impact for other people in the long term, not just yourself, you still may want to look with the 'evils-eye' to people who are trying to bother you.

[Plato]

Why would a lightworker need to use fear? Everything is perfect already!

[Eric Revelin]

Originally Posted by Plato

Huh?

The appeal of darkworking, no, the whole POINT of it is the state of absolute dominance. This is not an objective thing. It is a feeling of power, energy and dominance that totally consumes and drives you. It's a furious rage that will not be withheld.

It smashes through limiting beliefs. It stampedes over obstacles you encounter. It will not be controlled by others. It will have it's way at any cost.

That happens when you have built up enough fear energy.

To understand darkworking you need to become aware of what your beliefs are whilst in that state.

I really don't recommend that website. Our friend Asmoday doesn't understand.

The hell are you talking about?

Rage is a tool within the darkworker arsenal but at the very least the darkworker should have control over it. The aim is first and foremost to become a god unto oneself and that is not an inherently destructive process.

It doesn't mean a darkworker will never have cause to destroy. A true nemesis should not be allowed to stand. Aside from that it's a matter of discretion, but a key skill is restraint. Power wielded carelessly will result in an untimely end.

A darkworker driven solely to dominance by rage will burn out. It's unsustainable. Very few people have what it takes to be sociopaths and that doesn't change when one chooses this polarity. Any paradigm that fails to account for the three-dimensional nature of human beings is invalid.

[Plato]

Originally Posted by Eric Revelin

The hell are you talking about?

Rage is a tool within the darkworker arsenal but at the very least the darkworker should have control over it. The aim is first and foremost to become a god unto oneself and that is not an inherently destructive process.

It doesn't mean a darkworker will never have cause to destroy. A true nemesis should not be allowed to stand. Aside from that it's a matter of discretion, but a key skill is restraint. Power wielded carelessly will result in an untimely end.

A darkworker driven solely to dominance by rage will burn out. It's unsustainable. Very few people have what it takes to be sociopaths and that doesn't change when one chooses this polarity. Any paradigm that fails to account for the three-dimensional nature of human beings is invalid.

The more you use fear the more cause you'll find to use it. Everything becomes a threat.

The more you use love the more goodness you'll find in the world around you.

It's crazy but it's true. I only want to be with you. Scrap the last sentence.

[Eric Revelin]

The split between darkworkers and lightworkers isn't as simple as fear vs. love. Darkworkers don't lose the ability to love anymore than lightworkers lose the ability to get angry.

Their polarity frames things differently. The darkworker might say, "I love you because it feels good and because you are someone I can respect. I have tested you and I know that you will be loyal." A lightworker harnesses anger when he expresses righteous indignation. In other words they become far more selective with their expressions.

Also, love and fear can be harnessed in different ways than we often realize. Love can be destructive when it blindly believes that it knows best and it proceeds to do something that's actually harmful (IE, killing heathens). Fear can be directed entirely inward and used to become so strong that nothing can intimidate you. Some degree of fear is necessary since even lightworkers will have to face their fears to become stronger, and darkworkers need a bit of love (even if it's only self-love) to ensure that they don't lose their minds.

[aphorist]

Plato: I cannot accept what you say is the darkworker because you explain him as someone who is extremely limited in emotional breadth and lacking conscious. I don't understand how "everything becomes a threat" if you still need food and water and air (so plants and lakes are threats?). Furthermore, if I'm totally self serving, but I have a strong value system (this is possible, right?), then, for me, I no longer have a use for people.

What I see is that if I work solely for the purpose of self-knowledge gain, then in some instances i need people to help me along that path. In other instances, worrying about people only gets in the way of my goal, so I'll just have nothing to do with them. How does Fear and Anger come into play here?

I'm being 100% self serving, but I also have no use for Fear or Anger. If Fear and Anger are prerequisites to darkworking, then maybe I'm finding these names just a little too neat and tidy.

[Eric Revelin]

Originally Posted by aphorist

I'm being 100% self serving, but I also have no use for Fear or Anger. If Fear and Anger are prerequisites to darkworking, then maybe I'm finding these names just a little too neat and tidy.

Steve would probably tell you that they are necessary. Talk to some people that have actually polarized this way and they'll tell you a different story.

Darkworkers are encouraged to use the shadow emotions, but with discretion. If you truly have no need for anger or fear then honor yourself and set them aside.

That is the key: honor yourself in all things. That's all you need to do.

[magi13]

what do you call one which applies both light and dark principles? i believe to understand each other is to understand both sides of the coin, not just one side. >,<

anyway, i'll be practical with this and you do not have to agree.

Use what works if it works. ^^, it's the result that matters in the end.

[aphorist]

Magi13: The problem is that steve, and others, are saying that to truely explore your potential, you have to pick a side of the coin and run with it until you reach the extreme (health of the overall body in which you're one cell). They all say that if you use both, it's fine, but you'll never reach your full potential.

It's hard to just use what works if it works, if I don't know the alternatives and how well it could be working. Yes, I could test every aspect and avenue to eventually get to where I want, but I find it easier to use collective knowledge to quickly gain insight (even if it's shaky) onto the topics.

[Plato]

Darkworking is what happens when you perceive yourself to be fundamentally unsafe.

Eric, fear and love are the definitions of beings a darkworker or lightworker. Serving self or whole is a product of relating to the world with fear or love. The more you relate to the world with fear, the more self serving you will be. The less connection you feel to others.

Likewise, act out of love and you will begin to perceive connection with others. If you mix the two you will uncertainly sway between feeling connected and not. It doesn't work.

Originally Posted by aphorist

Plato: I cannot accept what you say is the darkworker because you explain him as someone who is extremely limited in emotional breadth and lacking conscious.

If you don't hunger for power you are not a darkworker. That is it, to be honest.

I don't want to talk about it too much because "when you stare into the abyss, the abyss stares back into you" (I'm following a different path at the moment) but I think I can clarify things.

Being in this state is not lowering your consciousness. It increases your consciousness in several ways:
1- You are hugely aware. That cloud of fuzz that normally clouds our focus is gone.
2- You are 100% certain of who you are and why you're here.
3- You are unstoppably motivated
4- You are 100% focussed on what you want
5- No hesitation, or self doubt

This is best known by trying it though.

Have you ever heard the expression drunk on power? Once you've tasted it you just want more and more, until eventually the pursuit of power takes over your life. It's really addictive.

It is a path of rapid personal growth. The incessant struggle builds immense self-control, discipline, self belief, resourcefulness (both internal and material) and courage.

To Eric who said it isn't sustainable: you're right that one can't be on the go the whole time. However, a state of fear is maintainable because when you polarize with fear you will be attacked repeatedly. When I said everything appears a threat, what I mean is that you interpret many things as threats. It's a bit like paranoia.

[aphorist]

Originally Posted by Plato

fear and love are the definitions of beings a darkworker or lightworker. Serving self or whole is a product of relating to the world with fear or love. The more you relate to the world with fear, the more self serving you will be. The less connection you feel to others.

Thanks Plato, I think I get why there seems to me to be a dichotomy within this model. I think there needs to be 2 more categories or something. Things just aren't this black and white (although I agree by making them so you do gain vision and motivation). So far we have:

1. Using Fear to self serve
2. Using Love to serve others

But couldn't we add two more to the mix?

3. Using Fear to serve others (if you know what's best for them)
4. Using Love to self serve (love yourself independent of others)

Therefore, we need to know what defines Light and Darkworkers. Is it the forces they use (Love or Fear) or is it the outcome they're advocating (Self or Others)?

Are you Dark because of the "shadow emotions" you use, or are you Dark because you're inward, self looking?

On the other side, are you Light if you Love yourself, and only yourself? Or do you need to use Love and be outward (toward the sun) looking?

[Plato]

Originally Posted by aphorist

But couldn't we add two more to the mix?

3. Using Fear to serve others (if you know what's best for them)
4. Using Love to self serve (love yourself independent of others)

No, and here is what will make everything click into place if you get it:

When you act out of fear you lose your sense of connection with others. I could only speculate why, but it happens. When you lose connection with others you feel isolated and even more fearful. Acceptance turns to hate. Partners turn into competitors. You lose your reason to serve others and gain reasons to serve yourself.

I know I said it before but it's too good not to say again: The path to hell is paved with good intentions. Engage in fear and you are on the way to being entirely self serving, no matter what your initial intentions.

Besides when you polarize with love you accept what IS. You don't feel a need to change other people. They are perfect as they are. If you choose to help people it is in the form of helping them love better. You don't get people to love by relating to them with fear. You connect with them.

When you act out of love you gain connection and understanding. Enemies become humans who are not flawless, but worthy of love and respect. At this point you have no reason to fear them.

[Eric Revelin]

Now that's better. These posts are of the quality I'd expect from you, Plato.

It's interesting how our experiences differ. When I focus on myself I don't feel fear, I just feel extremely powerful. I don't become paranoid but my senses are heightened. I feel like I can do anything and if I do run into a challenge I relish it. A brush with death is an opportunity to improve.

This could simply be my warrior nature coming forth. There is no question that I'm a warrior in the philosophical and spiritual sense. There's no greater thrill than tossing myself into an impossible situation and coming out in one piece. I would willingly plunge into the depths of hell if it meant I would emerge unconquerable.

The thing is, I feel even more powerful when I act honorably. It's a thrill in itself to dine in the company of demons without being corrupted (according to my own values); it increases my mental fortitude. Furthermore, doing harm doesn't seem to be a sustainable path to power. People catch on, and no matter what position I put myself in I will always need something they can provide me with. If I build them up I improve my reputation and I make it more likely that they will stand at my side if, for a moment, I'm weak. It also stands as a testament to my greatness- only the powerful can truly inspire. And if they choose to compete with me? Like I said, I love a challenge.

I invoke fear constantly, not to channel it but to overcome it. A true warrior can fear nothing. I don't feel an intense connection to the whole but I know that without it I would perish. More than anything I'm deeply in love with myself and that is a bond I seek to strengthen.

The aims of the darkworker- power, clarity, confidence- are not dependent on fear, at least not in the way it's commonly thought of. This has been my experience. I seek to gain power and I define power as the ability to carry out my own will. If that isn't darkworking then I don't know what else to call it.

[supertom]

The thing i want to know is that are darkworkers needed to balance lightworkers?? Or will it eventually just be lightworkers??

[magi13]

i believe harmony is needed in our world.

[aphorist]

I was thinking about if lightworkers needed darkworkers or vice versa, because if the whole world couldn't be populated with one type, it would seem unsustainable.

It doesn't seem like there's a need to balance. Like steve's written, they both lead to the same path if you don't fall into the syndromes of each side. If the whole body of cells work together to help the body the body lives and if the whole body of cells work for themselves the body lives.

But I've also come to the conclusion with magi that this model is a little too simplified.

[magi13]

why don't we visualize 3 worlds as an example.

1. world where the light workers run supreme
2. dark workers run supreme
3. there is balance in between

What do you think? Let's hypothetically create a scenario between these three

[aphorist]

Okay, I'm going to make the math a little easier for myself (lets say the world is 1 million people large).

1. everyone is looking out for everyone else. Meaning everyone is putting in 1/1,000,000 of their effort for each person. In the end, the system has 1,000,000 people worth of effort, and every individual person is accounted for with 1 person's worth of effort.

2. Everyone looks out for themself. Meaning there is still 1,000,000 people worth of effort in the system and 1 person's worth of effort for each person (I believe darkworking is sustainable if individuals recognize their need of the whole. This just means, in a darwinian-like model, everyone looks out for themselves, but the system evolves through competition).

3. Half of the people are putting out 1/1,000,000 of effort for everyone and some are keeping all their effort for themselves. So the lightworkers are left with .5 person's effort each while the darkworkers have 1.5 person's effort. This leaves people in conflict, which probably leads to degridation of the system.

I am not accounting for whether cooperation (lightworking) would be more productive than competition (darkworking), but that's a pretty long debate.

How does this sound?

[magi13]

it is good. the model you proposed is easily understood.

now that we have a model, we can dissect the issue, and it goes against my intuition. but it is valid. (that's why i rely on mathematics, it does make things clear)

1. is the ideal state. <- we really should go for this. your example made it clear. now the problem is if we include the factor of reality. it will not go this way but we can hope for it.

2. is scary, only the resourceful will survive here. hehehe, but in some areas of the world this is reality.

3. world three as you describe it shows our world as it is now. there are those who are kind and hope to help and others who take advance of other people's kindness.

world one is ideal. i don't know how to achieve this except via education with world wide support

world three is where we are now as a whole. scary. waaa

[Theo77]

I think the main thing to know is darkworking is not operating from the heart. Its not about empathy. Its about fear, not love.

I am sure people will argue with me. But the way I look at it that's how it works from my 30 day darkworker trial.

But if people saying you are heartless and lack empathy bugs you, you aren't a darkworker, anyway.

IMO though reality as we know it is created by the dynamic tension between various polarities, so I am not saying that no one should be a dark worker, but if you want to operate from the heart its not the choice for you. That's not to say light workers have to be totally self sacrificing all the time and be a martyr.

[Eric Revelin]

A 30-day trial isn't enough to get a good feel for what either path entails. It's a transforming experience and like nearly all transforming experiences it occurs in stages.

At first self-focus and increased power will kill many of your emotions. It's volatile and difficult to control. It's almost like you devolve into a mindless beast and work your way up. (I recall wanting to punch literally everything I saw. I felt insane but at the same time I'd never felt better. I also had trouble figuring out what the long-term consequences of any of my actions would be, along with many other peculiarities.) Ultimately, though, darkworkers are still three-dimensional human beings that take joy in interacting with others and, yes, even being nice once in a while. It's hard-wired into us, and for good reason. Nature rewards species that work together. A society allows every individual within it to attain more power than the person who insists on standing alone. (And no, manipulation and domination alone will not allow the darkworker to get very far. If you make a habit of controlling people it won't be very long until they resent you for it and turn on you.)

It isn't enough to desire power. Do you have clarity? Do you have strength? Do you know who you are and can you remember that in the midst of your most intense trials? This path will either twist you into a monster or refine you into a being worthy of self-deification. It's not for everyone.

Light and dark will always be necessary. It's impossible to have one without the other. Lightworkers need to integrate their shadow lest they lose their sense of self or they open themselves to manipulation via naivety. Darkworkers need to connect with other people or else they will go insane. The two paths rely on each other in every way.

[Theo77]

Actually, yes it was enough for me. I can't speak for you and you can't speak for me.

It was long enough for me to know that its not a path for me to operate from the heart.

If you want to make an argument that dark workers operate from the heart then let's hear it.