If reality is truly subjective, then why are Steve and Erin changing their diets?

[The Animus]

Since both Steve and Erin claim that reality is entirely subjective,

then why don't they change their thoughts,

instead of their diets?


What part of 'reality' are they bending to accommodate?

And why is one of them struggling with health, when both psychic powers are claimed, AND they claim that they are creating their reality entirely from their own minds?

[magi13]

i think you're talking about perception. they perceive reality in that manner, but reality in itself is governed by laws, such as gravity, aging, so on and so forth.

man is the only being capable of lying to itself and believe it. (self hypnosis)

man can only create from something that already exists or something from equivalent.

[Yynatago]

I thought they just said that viewing reality subjectively is a useful way of seeing reality. Most people view reality objectively, so Steve wrote some articles explaining the subjective perspective.

[Warping]

Subjective reality is not objective truth.
It's a pair of reality sunnies you throw on to get a different spin on situations, a new point of entry into solutions and an interesting approach to life.

It is NOT the only sunnies you wear, as there is no perfect pair, they all have their pros and cons.

Try it, record results, share. Rinse, repeat.

[Brutha]

Since both Steve and Erin claim that reality is entirely subjective,

then why don't they change their thoughts,

instead of their diets?´

If reality is subjective in the sense that Steve suggests there is no difference between those two things.

[Dharma]

Originally Posted by The Animus

Since both Steve and Erin claim that reality is entirely subjective,
then why don't they change their thoughts,
instead of their diets?

The belief structure is someone's sacred religion. Me, for example, I know the denial I carry around money. I can see exactly how I put my experience into place around money and abundance (lol, or lack of). But I don't change it. It's a habit. These are deep patterns within me and I am changing them now.

The same goes with people and food. There is a belief that certain foods create health or disease. That for some is deep religion. They've not discovered their denial around this area yet. The reality is they choose to eat food and they choose health or deny their health. All choices are mutually exclusive. One choice does not effect another choice, unless a link is made between those choices (and THAT is a choice too).

Originally Posted by The Animus

What part of 'reality' are they bending to accommodate?

And why is one of them struggling with health, when both psychic powers are claimed, AND they claim that they are creating their reality entirely from their own minds?

As we approach 2012, the new consciousness or new energy of consciousness is coming in as the old is exiting. The veil that humanity used to cover their use of denial is getting very thin. The denial that we've used to hide our other uses of denial is not working anymore and we're going to have to deal with it. Being psychic and thinking you create from your mind does not make you immune from your denial in the moment.

[Erin Pavlina]

No one is claiming reality is subjective. Steve is presenting subjective reality as a useful lens with which to perceive reality. We have both found it to be an extremely powerful lens, but you are free to choose the lens by which you would like to perceive reality and you'll get the results that go with it.

As for diet... I struggle with diet and health because I have conflicting beliefs in this area that have precluded me from achieving what I deem to be good health. I can't be a vibrational match for a healthy, slim and trim body if I have limiting beliefs which don't serve me.

By working on changing my beliefs, my habits will change, my diet will change, my health will change. It all works together.

Being psychic doesn't make me capable of waving my magic wand and manifesting something I'm not a vibrational match for. You attract what you think about. When I can get my thoughts aligned with a trim and slim body, I will achieve it.

And might I comment on the tone with which you posted your original comment. Somewhat confrontational no? It didn't seem to me as if you truly wanted to understand but instead were seeking to discredit something you either don't understand or don't want to believe is real. You will get what you expect. You will see what you expect to see. Be careful to make sure that what you expect is what you really want, because you will surely get it.

[Breakaway]

Erin, I'm not that familiar with your views since I generally have only read Steve, but if you have psychic abilities, then how do you have any free will?

And wouldn't you already know if your diet will work, or if Steve's polyamory will be successful or not?

[Warping]

Breakaway: Destiny vs. Free Will

[Savage]

From within the subjective perspective, dietary change is simply the choice to have a new experience within your simulated reality.

When you're having a dream and you become lucid, it can be a lot of fun to follow the plot of the current dream to see where it leads. You do this for the enjoyment of the experience.

The simulation of reality has a purpose -- it helps you grow and develop your consciousness. Often it's better to work within the simulation instead of trying to override it. This way you can experience the gains you're here to make.

Adopting a raw food diet helped me to shift my consciousness and enjoy some tremendous growth experiences. It's a more disciplined way of eating, so it boosted my mental discipline. It's brought much more variety into my life, so my experience of reality has changed a lot. It's created new connections with others who eat this way, so my social life has changed as well. These were all fascinating and enjoyable developments.

[The Animus]

Originally Posted by Erin Pavlina

No one is claiming reality is subjective. Steve is presenting subjective reality as a useful lens with which to perceive reality. We have both found it to be an extremely powerful lens, but you are free to choose the lens by which you would like to perceive reality and you'll get the results that go with it.

Originally Posted by Steve Pavlina

So how can I know that subjective reality is real?

Change your beliefs, and then watch the physical universe itself change to become congruent with them.

Science and history, past and future, and all your memories exist within your consciousness. You manifested them. If you believe it can’t be true, then it can’t.

Science is based on the presupposition that objective reality exists. The whole notion of an objective observer stems from that assumption. But this assumption is unprovable and may therefore be erroneous. From a subjective standpoint, the belief in objectivity is what manifests all the laws and discoveries of science. To drop that belief is to make it possible to violate the seemingly untouchable laws of science.


Why does the physical universe seem so stable then?

It seems stable because you believe it to be stable. You allow your perceptions to feed your thoughts instead of taking more direct control over your thoughts..

Neither your actions nor your results are congruent with this belief system. Subjective reality was presented as a mode of of thinking, and a valid stable model of reality does not switch or discard a false 'lens' at will. If this model were even valid as a transplant, then you would not be having these issues.

Originally Posted by Erin Pavlina

And might I comment on the tone with which you posted your original comment. Somewhat confrontational no? It didn't seem to me as if you truly wanted to understand but instead were seeking to discredit something you either don't understand or don't want to believe is real. You will get what you expect. You will see what you expect to see. Be careful to make sure that what you expect is what you really want, because you will surely get it.

The original post is simply pointing out the incongruity between your and Steve's teachings and your actions. Why are you perceiving it as confrontational?

If a teacher says listen to what I have to say and how to live life, but is neither living it that way themselves, nor showing positive results in those areas, how can what they teach be true? To maintain and disseminate such false systems of belief neither benefits themselves, nor the people to whom it is taught.

You and Steve should investigate what parts of reality you are holding and teaching are false, rather than continue to spread the false teachings.


Instead, you turned the comment into a personal issue, rather than addressing the issue that was raised.

[Judge]

I think you're confusing subjective reality as Steve relates it, with your idea that Steve and Erin are not of your creation. Steve explains subjective reality, but he's not saying anything that you are not creating. Steve is merely a projection in you reality. He will provide to you whatever you require.

He is of your creation.

Steve and Erin don't have diets or conflicting ideals, ideas or opinions. It's all something you are creating and then asking why it makes no sense to you. Everyone (yes including me) is a projection of your consciousness in your reality.

There is no way you can escape responsibility.

Asking why Steve and Erin have conflicting ideas, is basically saying........

'Who are these people and why are they doing stuff I don't get'

All the while you are denying you're creating them and then asking questions of them and why they are doing stuff that makes no sense to you, but you are still creating it all.

Judge

[eternomi]

Originally Posted by Erin Pavlina

No one is claiming reality is subjective. Steve is presenting subjective reality as a useful lens with which to perceive reality.

As a lense, subjectivity is a great tool, but just a tool nonetheless. One of many.. You can't rely just on it and take it as the ultimate truth because it is not. There are areas where it works great and others where it doesn't apply.

Incidentally, another name for subjective reality is psychology. It is the perception of the outer from the inside. I know, I know, when you call it that it becomes blend, dry, boring, overdone, uninteresting, common, etc.. It loses its sparkle, magic, mystical essence, but still it is what it is. Kudos to Steve and others though for coming up with a better packaging for an existing product and make it appealing again to the masses!

Originally Posted by Erin Pavlina

As for diet... I struggle with diet and health because I have conflicting beliefs in this area that have precluded me from achieving what I deem to be good health. I can't be a vibrational match for a healthy, slim and trim body if I have limiting beliefs which don't serve me.

Fortunately, not everything is due to what you have done at an emotional, conscious, psychological level. If you have a physical ailment, it may or may not be because of an emotional trauma or your belief system in general. The subjective reality lense looks at these realms for answers and it may very well find them there, but you may be looking for ghosts. Don't discount other realms and other tools!

The human mind strives to simplify, turn things into little, sequential lists, into 12-step programs, which it can easily take in, follow and reap rewards (instantly of course). Sometimes it works, but often these simplifications mask the full complexity of the truth. A smart student of personal development has to face the fact that things are much more complex under the hood and any attempt to simplify is noble, yet comes with much fineprint.

[The Animus]

Good way to change the subject.

Basically, subjective reality is being used here to deflect criticisms and maintain incongruity.

See this objectively and realistically, and how this incomplete model is neither showing reality clearly nor interacting with it effectively. Why don't you just adopt a more accurate model of reality, rather than try to defend this incomplete and inaccurate one?

[Judge]

Originally Posted by The Animus

Good way to change the subject.

Basically, subjective reality is being used here to deflect criticisms and maintain incongruity.

See this objectively and realistically, and how this incomplete model is neither showing reality clearly nor interacting with it effectively. Why don't you just adopt a more accurate model of reality, rather than try to defend this incomplete and inaccurate one?

Lots of fancy words there

Still not taking responsibility for what you are creating?

You seek an objective seperate world from yourself to deny the subjective reality that is entirely of your creaation. The objective world exists inside of the subjective reality which is a term to define reality inside of your own consciousness.

And then you don't like how it plays out

Most people get lost here, resort to ego and create a defendable position. Instead of defense, realise I, Steve, whoever give you what you require..........and then you don't like it

You only ever argue with youself.

Although it can be enlightening

Judge

[The Animus]

Again you, as Erin did, are changing the subject, back to attack the 'person' who pointed it out, rather than to discuss the actual issue.

Do not talk about the poster, but about the situation as it is.

In your reality as well, and Erin's and Steve's, everyone who has come across their articles sees that what is written on day 1 is different than the results that they are showing on day 5. Steve and Erin claim that reality is subjective. Erin claims that she is psychic, and can help other people solve their problems.

But they are both changing their reality to suit an objective biological law, rather than changing their thoughts about diet and health. And Erin is not living in health or truth, so how can she claim to cure others when she is not well herself? Steve also wrote himself, not to trust someone whose life is not in accordance with the principles they claim

Steve Pavlina Quote:
One very simple principle I’ve adopted is to give very little credibility to diet books with photos of fat doctors on the cover. It should be obvious why that has proven helpful.

There is clearly an incongruity in their belief systems or their thinking, because their actions and results do not match. So, rather than attack someone who points this out, why not do some searching and find out why this is so, and obtain a clearer and more accurate view of reality?

[JSB]

A. Subjective Reality" -- I don't think it means what you think it means.

B. "Functional" <> "Descriptive".

C. Their stated behavior appears perectly congruent with their stated beliefs to me (but that's just my perspective).

D. "Psychic abilities" <> "Snap your fingers and grow wings".

E. Proving something and understanding something in greater depth can both be very useful goals, but in any given situation, they may possiby be mutually exclusive, not because one has to automatically accept something as true in order to learn from it, but because focusing on proof, belief, and debate may be using the mind in such a way as to interfere with understanding --- sometimes it is helpful to learn and debate at separate times.

[Aleksander Krstic]

Judge is more relaxed than Animus, so I vote for Judge's perspective of reality.

[Judge]

Originally Posted by The Animus

So, rather than attack someone who points this out, why not do some searching and find out why this is so, and obtain a clearer and more accurate view of reality?

I'm not attacking you. I'm attempting to show you the truth you seek.

You look to Steve and Erin and even Judge to justify your (egoic) position.

That position has some limited value, but all egoic positions never last, all human life ends.

But you want to keep defending a position based on time, feeling and emotion.

I do not have any position, you create me in your world for a reason, then want to fight your own creation. How does that make sense to you and/or help you?

Originally Posted by Aleksander Krstic

Judge is more relaxed than Animus, so I vote for Judge's perspective of reality.

It's not my perspective, it's yours. I do not and can not exist independant of your creation.

============================

Think about this......

When everyone leaves you, when they all go home, move away, die, become forgotten, then who is left?

You are.

There is no one else.

And then we look to the world full of questions about why this is.

Keep defending your ego position, it will keep you busy for a thousand years, but it's not so bad.......it's always the now, so you can always choose to be the present moment, the now.............

what else is there?

Judge

[The Animus]

Once again, you are pointing fingers at the poster to divert attention rather than looking at the issue that was shown.

And nope, you first introduced the word 'ego' to this thread.



The post is not about seeking why Erin and Steve are behaving incongruently as an end. Clearly, they have not yet found an accurate model of reality. It is to point it out, and show that they should first find the truth and behave congruently before teaching their beliefs to others.

[Judge]

Originally Posted by The Animus

they should first find the truth and behave congruently before teaching their beliefs to others.

"They should first find the truth"

You mean your truth.

The truth you want to see in them to make you feel better.

Keep doing that, ego LOVES that.

Judge

[The Animus]

Haha. Nope, but you have a fairly good use of Ad Hominem here.


Again, anyone can live as they want, but not all people claim to live by truth. Those who do, need to make sure they actually have it, and live by it, before teaching others.

[Judge]

Originally Posted by The Animus

Haha. Nope, but you have a fairly good use of Ad Hominem here.

(Latin: "argument against the man")

I presume you are the man.

I am the argument against the man, the man, being you.

Therefore we should argue?

Who am I?

I am you.

Who are you?

Those who do, need to make sure they actually have it, and live by it, before teaching others.

You still look to others to instruct you.

When you fail your expectations, your go online and tell them they have failed you.

Who fails you?

Steve and Erin have not failed you.

Judge has not failed you.

You fail yourself.

We actually love you and will do everything to help you.

But you keep blaming us for the world you have created.

There is no Steve, Erin, Judge.

How can we fail you, when we do not exist?

Judge

[magi13]

our reality has rules which cannot be changed, like you live and die, you need food to eat so on and so forth. :3..

steve and erin has good ideas, but they are still subject to the laws of nature and our reality. that's something they can not change. :3.. they just adapted to the world in a way that they choose to have.

^^, this should be common sense. :3..

[The Animus]

Again, you are putting the poster into this, rather than addressing the issue.

I am not looking for them to instruct me. The truth is that reality has both objective and subjective components.

But they are claiming that reality is entirely subjective. That is false.

This issue was brought up in order to help them see the faults in their reasoning, and to instruct others more accurately and according to the truth.

[Aleksander Krstic]

You guys do realise there is NO way to win this argument right?

[magi13]

everyone is entitled to his own opinion. ^^, that's all there is to it.

[Savage]

FYI the accounts The Animus, Byron, and several others were fake accounts created by a previously banned user. The fake accounts were caught by a moderator today and have since been banned (having multiple fake accounts has always been against the forum rules).

This was a previous user who was banned for trolling and creating multiple fake accounts in the past.

I'm happy to keep this thread open, but if you wish to continue the discussion, just be aware of the source and that the fake accounts will no longer be participating.

Carry on...

[moonrambler]

Originally Posted by Steve Pavlina

FYI the accounts The Animus, Byron, and several others were fake accounts created by a previously banned user. The fake accounts were caught by a moderator today and have since been banned (having multiple fake accounts has always been against the forum rules).

This was a previous user who was banned for trolling and creating multiple fake accounts in the past.

I'm happy to keep this thread open, but if you wish to continue the discussion, just be aware of the source and that the fake accounts will no longer be participating.

Carry on...

Hee. Somebody'd had enough and subjective-realitied them right outta here

[cylon]

It's a shame. It's always so much fun when someone goes out of their way to tell you that they disagree with you, unasked.