Why Polyamory? (Blog)

[Steve Pavlina]

Use this thread to discuss the following entry from Steve Pavlina's blog:

Why Polyamory?

[Angela]

hooooo boy, the bit about how if your partner won't even entertain discussion on your interest in the subject, you've outgrown herm and it's time to move on? -- I'm predicting that's going to trigger a viral outbreak of Kittywompus.

[Susie]

Maybe more like gorillawompus.

[Steve Pavlina]

Originally Posted by Angela

hooooo boy, the bit about how if your partner won't even entertain discussion on your interest in the subject, you've outgrown herm and it's time to move on? -- I'm predicting that's going to trigger a viral outbreak of Kittywompus.

It may seem a bit harsh at first glance, but ultmately this is pretty standard relationship advice... advice I wholeheartedly agree with.

I've read a lot of relationship books over the years, and they all basically say the same thing with regards to stonewalling. If you can't get past it even with a serious effort, it's a strong sign that the relationship is already dead... or perhaps it was never alive to begin with.

How can you claim to care about someone if you refuse to let them communicate what's important to them? If you decline to relate, you decline the relationship.

[Gregorz]

To me, ending a relationship is better than staying in stagnancy for god knows how long -- some people put it off for years -- before finally breaking up. It's soul draining. By giving that advice, Steve might be giving someone a few extra years to pursue deeper relationships. So it's all good.

[WhiteCrow]

Really Steve what you are saying....damn I love you. I have been thinking about relationships all of my adult life. They should bring love, but reality is that the bring misery and jealousy.

There is always talk about unconditional love. This means love no matter what. But what do we see?

- I'll cut your **** off if you sleep with someone else.
- What? He is divorcing me? I want HALF!!!
- Wait, did you look at that other woman? Sleep on the couch!

There is airing a Coca Cola commercial right now here in the Netherlands. "The ideal break up". This guy wants to breakup, sips a Cola and suddenly his girl says: "So you want to break up? You dont want to commit to one woman when there are so many others? Call me if you want to have some fun!".

This sounds like the ideal woman to me, and I want to be a man like that. "Oh honey, you want to sleep with Brad Pitt? No problem, just get me a signature will ya. Love you."

P.S I am looking forward to the monogamic people going kittywompus over this. They show me how I DONT want to be.

[Fullcrum]

I am a 17 year old mostly raw male teenager.

Sex is often on my mind. Actually, it floods my penis many times a day as well. I think you get my point.

Sidenote: My sex drive went up after cutting out most dairy and eating mostly raw, not down.

In my position, what would you do, Steve? Right now I honor my drives. To me, sexual connection and emotional intimacy can be separate things. They can be connected, and have been for me, but really...it's not that big a priority in my life right now. I just don't feel it. Is this a sign of my DEVOLVED STATE? Am I simply a HORNY teenager and this will pass? Perhaps - but not paying attention to one's desires, isn't that the ultimate sham?

What would you say to someone like me?

[hayden tompkins]

P.S I am looking forward to the monogamic people going kittywompus over this. They show me how I DONT want to be.

I think that's the type of energy that threw me for a loop the most at first. The intimation that monogamy is bad or unrealistic or unsustainable. That people who choose monogamy are naive or unenlightened.

There is room for all types of interactions as there is room for all types of people. And not everyone is attracted to the same types of people, the same music, or even the same careers. How boring it would be otherwise!

Someone pointed out to me that it isn't so much whether a specific relationship style is good or bad, but whether we choose consciously and mindfully.

[majikins]

Hi

I've been reading the blog with interest for some time now. Makes for good discussion and introspection!

There are many points I agree with. If I analyze my experiences, getting down to fundamentals, I liken relationships to chemistry. Interactions with different people and situations bring out sides to you which you may not acknowledge or fathom exists. Every wise-man tells you that one of the goals on this earth is to get to know yourself. It stands to reason that if this is the case and one of the methods of getting to know yourself is to interact with different people and situations, polyamory as a vehicle/tool may provide you with the means.

However this is not cut and dried - it can be a slippery slope.

Getting to know oneself is hard work. You need to be courageous. You need to acknowledge that you are in charge of your life, your emotional well-being and take accountability.

This needs to happen in healthy phases that build on each other - walk before you run.

The slippery slope affects you when you haven't followed a healthy path in growth. Intellectually you may appreciate a point of view, but emotionally you cannot deal with it. It is my opinion that this is the case with most a great deal of the time. Its almost as if there are split personalities - the conscious and subconscious are not in harmony. We are exposed to so much that bombards us constantly without relief - we don't take a step to question why we feel the way we do and pro-actively choose to respond - rather we seem to be geared to constantly react to life.

Polyamory in my opinion is a spiritual rather than sexual experience. However in order to fully appreciate this way of life, I think, one needs to be very much in touch with oneself and to be very conscious of who you are.

I also agree with the crux of what Steve is saying on relationships. It is sad that people get fixated on the sexual aspects of polyamory. Why are we so fixated on this? It boggles my mind. Simply put, it seems we don't have a healthy view of sex. But thats for another discussion. Loving relations are NOT about sex, tho sex is a part of it and an expression of this love. As Steve says, when you get older, your sex drive wanes(as is natural!) and you get to realise that being friends, caring about each other, liking each other is what you look forward to.

I realised this when I observed a gay couple together - they had been together for a while and their relationship was such that you could see their caring and love for each other - they genuinely LIKED each and it showed in their actions. Like most, I couldn't fathom how gay people loved each other in that way....then I realised that the relation was not about that in the end.

Relations, be it gay, straight, multiple are the better for you if you love and care for yourself and your partner/partners.

Its that simple.

oh but so hard to practice....

[WhiteCrow]

Originally Posted by hayden tompkins

P.S I am looking forward to the monogamic people going kittywompus over this. They show me how I DONT want to be.

I think that's the type of energy that threw me for a loop the most at first. The intimation that monogamy is bad or unrealistic or unsustainable. That people who choose monogamy are naive or unenlightened.

There is room for all types of interactions as there is room for all types of people. And not everyone is attracted to the same types of people, the same music, or even the same careers. How boring it would be otherwise!

Someone pointed out to me that it isn't so much whether a specific relationship style is good or bad, but whether we choose consciously and mindfully.

Hey it is no value judgement. It is just not how I want to relate to relationships. I want actually to be happy for my girl if she would "cheat". She should be able to give in to temptation. She should not have to "restrain" herself from having sex or friendships with other people. I want to be able to be happy NO MATTER THE CIRCUMSTANCES. And classical monogamy brings with it fear of loss, co dependancy, and loss of freedom (whether chosen or not). But as you said, to each their own.

[WhiteCrow]

Originally Posted by majikins

Hi

Intellectually you may appreciate a point of view, but emotionally you cannot deal with it. It is my opinion that this is the case with most a great deal of the time. Its almost as if there are split personalities - the conscious and subconscious are not in harmony.

Damn I experience this exactly!!!!!

I want to unconditional love everyone, but still end up being pissed off from time to time at someone.

I want my girlfriend to be able to "cheat", yet I still would be jealous if it did happen.

How can one work at this? I see this clearly as the next step, but I am not seeing myself there any time soon.....

Good note though!

[Daffy Duck]

Originally Posted by WhiteCrow

And classical monogamy brings with it fear of loss, co dependancy, and loss of freedom (whether chosen or not). But as you said, to each their own.

Interesting. My monogamous relationships do not bring those things with it, at least not on my end.

Anyway, communication should always be open. If your partner is not even willing to discuss something with you, that's not good. They should be willing to talk. They don't have to agree with you. They can say, "I'm glad we talked about this. If you want to be a polyamory, go ahead. I don't want to though, so it's time we end our relationship."

Heck, if my girlfriend told me she wanted to sleep with other guys, that's a clear sign to me that I don't want to sleep with her anymore!

[Fullcrum]

It appears no one has the answer to my insatiable sex drive.

[Holiday]

So Steve, you have no others in your life right now with whom you can be as honest and open as you can with Erin? And that is what you are seeking? Why could that not be with a man?

[Gregorz]

I can put the reasons I choose polyamory pretty simply: I think it's unreasonable, not to mention unrealistic, for any one person to keep me happy forever. No matter how awesome they are, I get bored with the same stuff. The better I get to know someone, the less they surprise me. Which isn't necessarily bad, but part of the fun of life for me is the discovery. When I settle into a routine of predictability, I get steadily more depressed until I eventually do something to break the monotony. This happens if I keep the same group of friends for too long and don't hang around with anyone new, not to mention interests and other things. It's pretty much universal for me.

With the above in mind, I always had something of a fatalistic view of relationships as a kid -- I watched many people in marriages force themselves to stay together, getting more and more bitter until most of them ended in divorce. I pretty much avoided relationships for that reason, I just couldn't see them working for me. Then I discovered polyamory -- which means that not only do I get to have discovery in new relationships, I get to keep the familiarity and comfort of the old. For me, it's the best possible compromise, because there's no way I can keep up sustained contact with one person. But absence makes the heart grow fonder, at least in my case.

People don't seem to understand why Steve's current marriage would be 'saved' by polyamory, but personally, I can totally see why. I don't know if the above explanation fits Steve's situation too, but that's my understanding of why so many monogamous relationships don't last. No offense if you can make it work -- if that's the case, all the more power to ya.

[WhiteCrow]

Originally Posted by Daffy Duck

Interesting. My monogamous relationships do not bring those things with it, at least not on my end.

Anyway, communication should always be open. If your partner is not even willing to discuss something with you, that's not good. They should be willing to talk. They don't have to agree with you. They can say, "I'm glad we talked about this. If you want to be a polyamory, go ahead. I don't want to though, so it's time we end our relationship."

Heck, if my girlfriend told me she wanted to sleep with other guys, that's a clear sign to me that I don't want to sleep with her anymore!

If you can do all this without any negative emotion whatsoever, that is great Teach me! Then you are exactly at the place I want to be....and I would even like monogamy.

[Gregorz]

Originally Posted by Holiday

So Steve, you have no others in your life right now with whom you can be as honest and open as you can with Erin? And that is what you are seeking? Why could that not be with a man?

Steve wrote about this here. Skip down to the heading which says 'Relationships with Men'.

[Daffy Duck]

Originally Posted by WhiteCrow

If you can do all this without any negative emotion whatsoever, that is great Teach me!

Haha, well, I think life taught me. I don't know if I can "teach" others.

I do not fear loss. I've lost relationships before, one I was in for 5+ years, but I've always believed that I will find someone new. Someone I like better. And I always have. So why fear loss? If I "lose" someone, that just means someone better is coming along.

I am not co-dependent, because I've been single before and am happy being so. I'm also happy being in a relationship. Either one is good with me, so I don't ever feel like I need my partner.

And the last thing you mentioned is loss of freedom. I guess it depends on how you define "freedom." My current relationship has helped me to travel more around the world and I still see all of my friends as often as I want to, and I still participate in all the hobbies that I want to, so I have no loss of freedom. In fact, I gain freedom. Just choose someone who is not interested in controlling you.

Monogamy is not for everyone, obviously. Some people are afraid of becoming bored with the same person. I've never experienced this feeling and I don't intend to. I think this feeling has more to do with ME than with my partner.

[Steve Pavlina]

Originally Posted by Holiday

So Steve, you have no others in your life right now with whom you can be as honest and open as you can with Erin? And that is what you are seeking? Why could that not be with a man?

It could happen with a man... sure.

In that case though, instead of progressing to direct physical intimacy if things got really close, I'd be likely to help such a guy find other sex/relationship partners that would be a good match for him. I.e. I'd try to send him some sacrificial virgins and such.

[MidasGirl]

From Blog:

We became close friends first and soon became lovers too. Our beautiful friendship has always been precious to me, and it has served as the core of a very strong relationship. I genuinely care about Erin, and she cares deeply about me. She and I have been best friends for many years.

Some people consider sexual attraction or sexual chemistry to be the core of a good relationship.

Believe it or not, it is possible to experience both of these levels with the same partner. I actually felt kinda bad for you when I read this, that you insinuated you had never experienced it. It is possible to meet a woman that will take you to such levels as you have never been taken before; levels of both sexual passion and emotional connection that will leave you wondering if you just met God incarnate.

I wish you the best. You seem really excited in these latest blogs (albeit a tad defensive). I believe you will also get to the point where you feel no need to feel like you owe anyone an explanation. I'm in a non-conventional relationship (interracial), mostly always been, so I know. Yeah but you seem almost giddy about it. I'm happy for you.

[FreelanceWanderer]

Steve, I'm glad to hear that it's not all about sex -- because after women read the exacting details of your enemas during the juice feast, I'm not sure you'll be able to get them to sleep with you. ;->

FW

[Andrew Brunelle]

Steve, you certainly have a lot of love to give and spending most or all of it on one person or just your family is limiting. Good for you for taking the plunge. We are all one after all.

[apsmith]

Let's say your relationship of six years has one person who would prefer the relationship to be monogamous and one person who wants openness. You have talked about it honestly for years. You each have tried the other's relationship style with varying success. The underlying preference hasn't changed and continues to cause contention. In all other ways, you are compatible, happy, and committed to being together for the rest of your lives. Someone has to make a sacrifice. Each of you is willing to do so if it were required to stay together, but neither wants the other to feel forced into it. How can you move past this stalemate?

[Steve Pavlina]

Originally Posted by apsmith

Let's say your relationship of six years has one person who would prefer the relationship to be monogamous and one person who wants openness. You have talked about it honestly for years. You each have tried the other's relationship style with varying success. The underlying preference hasn't changed and continues to cause contention. In all other ways, you are compatible, happy, and committed to being together for the rest of your lives. Someone has to make a sacrifice. Each of you is willing to do so if it were required to stay together, but neither wants the other to feel forced into it. How can you move past this stalemate?

I'd convert it from a monogamous romantic relationship to a non-cohabitating friendship. If it couldn't be converted, I'd break things off as amicably as possible. Either way I would seek out a more compatible win-win situation while encouraging my partner to do the same.

Compromise only breeds resentment. Go for win-win or no deal. It's better to go after the kind of relationship you really want and to allow your partner to do the same... than to settle for something that neither of you really wants.

Settling may look like it's "pretty close" or "close enough" to true happiness. In truth settling isn't even in the same ballpark as happiness.

For many years I tried to convince myself that continuing to run my games business was "pretty good" and "close enough" to what I wanted. When I finally dropped it to pursue something greater, I realized that what I'd thought was a 7 out of 10 had actually be a 1 all along.

[edith]

Go for win-win or no deal.

Oh, but this goes against my upbringing that says we can never have all that we want, so better get used to it!

I have to count myself in on those who at first thought "OK for Steve and Erin; no way I could do it" but kept reading and pondering.

It has got me thinking about how different the mindset of the person (who is ok with polyamory) is versus how one would be in a monogamous relationship. Let's say a less consciously-chosen monogamous relationship.

Polyamory-open folks are just a different creature altogether. There is, I'm guessing, for most people, a sense of "surrendering" to another person when choosing to be monogamous. You allow your emotional life to be at their whims, and you may put yourself in a position to be financially dependent on them. There is an independence spirit I'm reading into polyamory where one takes full responsibility for their lives. That appeals to me because the more I look at it, giving myself over to another person has not resulted in some ideal, romantic, lovely life.

A good thing, yes! except that there are times in life where you need to be able to depend upon another person for care, sustenance...how do you factor that in, Steve? I know Erin makes enough on her own, but will you still be knotting your finances and care decisions together? I assume you'll stay legally married; will how you handle practical matters stay the same?

[apsmith]

We are not currently monogamous. Neither are we poly. I call us "flexible" because it depends on the situation and the person as to what type of connection is desired and acceptable. We talk openly about it; it has all been case-by-case negotiable at this point.

Thank you for your input. It gets complicated to step outside society's norm for relationships, especially in non-monogamous situations, simply by adding more variables with each new person. I look forward to reading the insights your research has provided and what you discover on your journey.

[ellie]

Hmmm just as you explained in your article steve that it took you time to open up to love, I believe it also can take time for a person to open up to new ideas. I don't think it's that cut and dry that if your partner doesn't want to talk about Polyamory then it's time to move on. If Erin hadn't been patient with you at the beginning about opening up to love then maybe you would never be at this stage. It took me time to come around to this whole topic, I wasn't open to it at all, at first, but now I open to learning about it.

Maybe it's just a simple thing of noticing that our partner could be open to listening to new ideas, maybe not straight away but eventually. Just remember not everyone is advanced or maybe set in their ways of thought/way of life/thinking as you.

It sounds like your assuming all your readers will just automatically have the same mindset, personality as you and will deal with things in the same manner. I think it would be a pretty boring world if this was the case!

[Steve Pavlina]

Originally Posted by edith

Oh, but this goes against my upbringing that says we can never have all that we want, so better get used to it!

I was raised to believe the same. Later in life I discovered that such beliefs are total nonsense.

Believing that you must compromise becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. It makes you give up before reaching your goal, settling for "close enough" instead of pressing onward to experience what you actually want.

A good thing, yes! except that there are times in life where you need to be able to depend upon another person for care, sustenance...how do you factor that in, Steve? I know Erin makes enough on her own, but will you still be knotting your finances and care decisions together? I assume you'll stay legally married; will how you handle practical matters stay the same?

With high trust such things are easy. You can agree to cooperate for each other's mutual best interest. Take note that true cooperation is win-win, while compromise is lose-lose.

[Steve Pavlina]

Originally Posted by ellie

Hmmm just as you explained in your article steve that it took you time to open up to love, I believe it also can take time for a person to open up to new ideas. I don't think it's that cut and dry that if your partner doesn't want to talk about Polyamory then it's time to move on. If Erin hadn't been patient with you at the beginning about opening up to love then maybe you would never be at this stage. It took me time to come around to this whole topic, I wasn't open to it at all, at first, but now I open to learning about it.

Maybe it's just a simple thing of noticing that our partner could be open to listening to new ideas, maybe not straight away but eventually. Just remember not everyone is advanced or maybe set in their ways of thought/way of life/thinking as you.

It sounds like your assuming all your readers will just automatically have the same mindset, personality as you and will deal with things in the same manner. I think it would be a pretty boring world if this was the case!

If you don't have open communication, you don't have much of a relationship.

Erin and I are always open to discussion about any topic. It may still take a long time to resolve certain issues, but we're open to discussing them with each other.

Without open communication there's no hope of resolving major issues. The end results is either a breakup or a breakdown.

Solutions may still take time, but in the presence of stonewalling, failure is guaranteed. That's about as cut and dried as it gets.

[edith]

Originally Posted by Steve Pavlina

With high trust such things are easy. You can agree to cooperate for each other's mutual best interest. Take note that true cooperation is win-win, while compromise is lose-lose.

Thanks, Steve. I think I'm....inspired!