2009 Focus - Intimate Relationships (Blog)

[Savage]

Use this thread to discuss the following entry from Steve Pavlina's blog:

2009 Focus - Intimate Relationships

[cinnabar]

I love how you pick a theme for the year... delving fully into one goal rather than many at once. I think I would benefit from trying that approach. But I'm beyond excited that you chose intimate relationships through polyamory for this year's theme! I noticed that you broached the topic in your book, but did not really write much about it at that time.

I wish you all the best with this path, and am so glad - so very excited! - that you are writing about it. Poly isn't mainstream, yet I have no trouble finding people that believe in the ability to Love more than one person at a time. I guess when you open your heart to a path, opportunities and greater knowledge show up everywhere.

[ClareDragonfly]

As soon as I read this sentence: "If you hold very traditional, mainstream views about relationships and especially marriage, then you probably won’t like what I’m about to say" I knew what was coming

Congratulations on making the decision to take this next step! I look forward to reading what you have to say about it, and I hope it works out well for you and Erin. I completely understand what you say about physical and emotional intimacy--I feel the same way, though I don't think polyamory is for me.

I'm curious, you say if you'd made this decision long ago you probably wouldn't have gotten married. What about the legal benefits of marriage? I'm not just talking about taxes, but also medical responsibilities, inheritance, and things like that. Are those irrelevant to you?

[HealingMaven]

Originally Posted by Steve Pavlina

Use this thread to discuss the following entry from Steve Pavlina's blog:

2009 Focus - Intimate Relationships

Good luck Steve! Being Poly is decidedly a hell of a means of personal growth. Done correctly, you wind up learning incredible communication skills. In your case, I suspect you already have many of those skills, but they'll be put to the test most likely. I've been a practicing poly for about... 15 years. More of the time in theory than practice (due to lack of time as much as anything else), but I've certainly had my share of the practice. Once upon a time I was even in the leadership of Poly-NYC, (poly-nyc.com) but that many moons ago.

If you want/need anyone to talk to about this as your journey goes on, I am at your disposal. (For that matter, if Erin needs someone to talk to/ask questions of, I offer my humble self.) If you haven't already found it, the podcast Polyamory Weekly is usually pretty awesome. (I wasn't crazy about the most recent episode, but if you listen to them all, you will get a great crash course in poly skills.)

Good luck, and I'm incredibly excited for you! (And for the poly community and the attention it may well get in the next few months.)

(And a bit of unsolicited advice if I may -- too much reassurance to your primary partner is often barely enough. Especially in the begining.)

[Breakaway]

Do you mainly feel this way because you don't think Erin is physically attractive enough? From the way you describe her in your blog, it often seems like you're describing a friend rather than a significant other.

[HealingMaven]

Originally Posted by Breakaway

Do you mainly feel this way because you don't think Erin is physically attractive enough?

Steve - this is the most obvious example of my unsoliticed adviced - especially since Erin is wrestling with diet and health issues. While Erin seems to be far FAR from the typical woman, even the best adjusted of us women are going to have some of that insecurity form time to time. Please do both of you a favor and spend more than enough time reassuring her on this one. PLEASE.

(Commentary courtesy of the Been there, Done that, OMG OUCH LOOKIT MY SCARS school of history.)

[akbarhome]

Does Erin feel the same way? Need to find another guys?

I don't want to judge you. It's your life anyway.

But from what I read, you have too much creative energy (the second chakra from bottom). The one way to express your creative energy without finding another women is with art.

Okay, happy new year, guyz!!!!!!

[bdc]

Steve Pavlina wrote:

If I had it to do all over again, knowing what I know now, would I still get married? No, I doubt it. The monogamous marriage model doesn’t feel right to me. I love the idea of long-term committed relationships though, but you don’t need marriage for that.

A few years ago I realized that my desire to marry was rooted solely in social conditioning. I've never been married.

I now find it difficult to imagine myself ever marrying. It's not that I'm opposed to long-term committed relationships. To me, peer pressure, the permission of the church, and the permission of the state just don't seem material to love.

As a population, women appear to strongly prefer marriage. I've often wondered about the veracity of that preference. And is the apparent preference for marriage attributable to conditioning or innate essence?

[hopena]

I won't stop reading, just because I want (and expect) monogamy in my relationships. I've continued reading the blog of a woman who started living this lifestyle last year - she's now exploring involvement with a married couple.

I did find your post a bit depressing, though (for personal reasons, that I don't feel like getting into here).

[RohanMitchell]

When I read the post, I remembered reading a New Scientist article about polyamory a few years ago. If you haven't heard of it before, the article would be a good introduction. Here it is:
Love unlimited: The polyamorists - life - 07 July 2006 - New Scientist

Rohan

[dannielo]

What will you say right before they put you six feet under? Will you say:
"I wish I would have."
"I wish I could have."
"I wish I should have."
Or will you say: "I did it all. Thank you and good night."

Gene Simmons - Sex Money Kiss

[AlwaysLearning]

Steve, I've long seen traces of seduction community influence in your writing, and you started talking about it explicitly in the Calibration article. It would be very interesting to read your own contributions to seduction.

It would be nice if these forums had an optional "Gender" display next to peoples' usernames. It would be extremely relevant for 2009 if we're gonna start discussing articles about relationships.

[Jay Pavlina]

I didn't find this post surprising at all. I kind of expected it because you've barely written about this topic. I'm really happy that you're trying something new in this area of your life.

Marriage does feel kind of weird to me. Why would you intentionally limit yourself to one person when there is no reason to? That's like limiting yourself to one career! I can see myself heading in this direction as well. I've already been deeply in love with two people and they were both great experiences.

To search for "the one" doesn't make sense to me anymore because I've already had two of them. I look forward to reading about this and experiencing more deep relationships in my own life.

[dendennz]

I completely understand your desire to do this. There was an episode of Oprah probably from the last 18 months (in NZ we're about a year behind in episodes and I think this was nearly 6 months back) where a couple did precisely what you're considering doing, except it's the wife that is in a second relationship. When her "boyfriend" comes over, she sleeps with him in the downstairs guest room. It was most interesting and it certainly challenged Oprah and the audience.

This will challenge a lot of people because we're so tied into the whole idea of monogamy and marriage being forever. It would be really nice that when one is living in a married state that they can experience relationships with other people, but not necessarily share their entire life/day to day with those people. As a person who has been married more than once, and had an affair in the first marriage, I can appreciate it's merits. Where it is wrong is where your marriage is broken. Steve's marriage isn't broken. He just has more in him to give, but not only that, he desires further experiences.

I wish you all the very best Steve and I hope you are able to share your experiences with us, giving the others in your life the privacy that they rightfully deserve.

Cheers,

Jenny.

[supertom]

isnt this illigeal in the US ?? sorry i dont know the laws

[Airblade]

Interesting. I wish you the best in your quest for growth. It is very courageous of you to write this in your blog! Kudos!

[beautyscientist]

Never a dull moment on Steve's blog, eh?

The morality isn't something that bothers me personally. Polyamory wouldn't suit me but there is a lot of variability in humans so I can see how it would work for some folk, and good luck to them.

This particular example does sound very risky to me though. Introducing a third person into a relationship might have very unpredictable results. I respect Steve's willingness to give new things a try, but there are quite a few other people exposed to risk in this partiular experiment - particularly the kids who don't get a say in it.

(You could have done something really controversial like switching to the Mac of course.)

[Momorune]

Dear Steve,

I am not a traditional marriage girl, but I have one thought to add to the conversation. I was always a nerd and "braniac" growing up, and I was also a tomboy. I was raised by my dad since age 10 and learned to change spark plugs and rip out walls for remodeling. I loved it. I loved the sheer competence and the power that gave me. When I got breasts my identity suddenly went into crisis. Suddenly I couldn't get anyone to pay attention to my braniac, wall-ripping self any more. Other women started treating me cruelly for no reason. If I laid claim to competence, more often than not I would be laughed at.

You can imagine when I figured out what was going on, how that made me feel about the human creature's needy, gropey, physical greediness. My heart was broken. It still IS a bit broken, to tell the truth. It was the biggest insult I could imagine to the strong and beautiful character I was trying to build for myself. Being confused about the difference between how people treated me and who I was/what I actually could do, I often deferred to the conventional wisdom about myself and as a result many opportunities for achievement, recognition, and growth, that I would have blissfully enjoyed, were lost.

So I am not telling you to call off your plan. I am just telling you to cover your raw compulsion to initiate physical contact with just a faint dusting of skepsis. It is important for women to have people that they can connect with soulfully and meaningfully - without being reminded that their dominant reality is about being forced into a position where they can feed someone's physical hunger.

[Daphne Lim]

Steve,

I'm amazed at your openness (and Erin's too) in being able to discuss this publicly. This reminds me of Richard Branson's marriage - he had two kids by the time he married their mother. Later when the kids attended a family friend's wedding, they told Branson "But they can't marry yet" and when asked why, replied "Because they have no kids!" Their whole perception of what is normal in society came from their parents, of course.

I'm assuming that you're planning to be as open about this with your kids as with Erin? I wonder what this will mean for them - will they think that they too should have multiple partners right from the age they start dating, for example, and find their love interests preposterous for objecting to their having other partners at same time? I'm not passing any moral judgment, just thinking aloud. Maybe society in 10 years time will be different anyway.

Also, I completely back up what Healing Maven said. A woman will try very hard to be supportive of what her partner wants, and even convince herself she is ok with it. But the hurt and insecurity builds up over time. I don't know Erin and I believe that she is highly evolved. But, still a woman. Will you abandon this newfound path if somewhere down the line she displays signs of emotional distress?

Sorry for asking so many questions. I'm sure the answers will come from future posts, and perhaps those answers don't even exist now. Reading your post just got me thinking about so many things.

[impaul99]

Although I think he got a divorce, I think Tony Robbins went through something similar. He's with his new wife Sage, but I don't think he left his other wife because there were problems. I'm not 100% sure what happened, but I think I heard that he still very much loves his first wife, the mother of his kids and they are still super good friends etc. but now he has a second wife.

I guess he took the "OR" path.

I remember watching a show on TV with a guy who has 4 (or was it 3) wives. At first it sounded like an interesting show to watch, but then all I see is the 4 wives fighting for attention from the one man and the guy trying to keep sane and keep things together.

Well, this will definitely be an interesting year to read this Blog.

[A.K.Light]

I wasn't ready for you to be ready for this, Steve, haha, but that's what I love about this web site. It's entertaining, and it also helps me grow and scares me all at the same time. Thank you, and happy journeying.

[Dragonfly]

Hi Steve,
What a terribly courageous post on your relationship with Erin. With all due respect, it sounds like enmeshment and co-dependence. No woman, or number of woman will satisfy that feeling inside you until you can satisfy it yourself.
When Erin can only handle a certain amount of love you are pouring into her, she is in effect holding her own boundaries, a very healthy thing to do.
This is not an easy situation, good on you for being honest enough to do something about it, although, in my opinion, whatever that is worth, it will not fill that 'hole'. All the best in your endeavours

[InterfaceLeader]

Originally Posted by Momorune

So I am not telling you to call off your plan. I am just telling you to cover your raw compulsion to initiate physical contact with just a faint dusting of skepsis. It is important for women to have people that they can connect with soulfully and meaningfully - without being reminded that their dominant reality is about being forced into a position where they can feed someone's physical hunger.

Agreed. I am sure you could have a deep, intimate relationship with a male without having sex with him. Why not a woman? Or is sex explicitly tied into the way you relate to women? :/

[tomjen]

Steve, I don't care about what you do in your own marrige, but please don't take any more girls - the rest of us have a hard enough time as it is. We can't really compete with you

[Trezker]

I was really surprised to see you had this problem, I've thought you were open minded and clearheaded and then this! You say polyamory is not mainstream, that has only been true since certain religions put its claws in humanity, but before this religious monogamy nonsense polyamory was very popular. It is still popular, but due to social pressure it isn't normally accepted and those who want it feel forced to do it in secret.

I could barely believe my eyes when I read that you still had that blockage in your mind. Polyamory is just like being homo, a forbidden form of love that should be accepted because it is simply natural.

[redmond007]

God bless you, but I feel like this can only end badly.

[ellie]

Man, I was so not surprised with this post at all. I've been waiting for Steve to write this blog. I sensed it a month or so ago and was wondering when you were going to write about it. I have to say I was really trying to understand it from Erin's perspective.

Man my intuition is getting good

Not my thing, but I hope it all works out well for you. Will be keeping my eye out for developments.

What suit some, may not suit others. So each to their own, I say

[ProjectNeoGenesis]

Steve,
With all the followers and unorthodox ideas you have, I think you should form a cult. We could all gather together and drink Kool-Aide, ahem, I mean vegan raw banana shakes..

[Savage]

Originally Posted by Breakaway

Do you mainly feel this way because you don't think Erin is physically attractive enough? From the way you describe her in your blog, it often seems like you're describing a friend rather than a significant other.

Nope. I've always found her very attractive. Yes, she's overweight, but that's never been an issue for me in the attraction dept. For some reason I've always had a strong attraction to redheads with pale skin.

[oakspringer]

Hello Steve I am so happy to hear that you're venturing into this area!

I discovered poly about 5 years ago, and felt similarly.

It intuitively felt right to me, as it opens up the heart to love more people, and physical intimacy is another wonderful expression of that love.

Interestingly enough, poly will be the predominate expression in the next density.

Here's to your abundance and success.

Ben