2009 Focus - Intimate Relationships (Blog)

[Socrates]

Long time reader, first day posting, but your poly posts inspired me to finally write here.

As someone who's been involved in a polyamorous relationship in the past (the hinge of a V, I'm sure by now you're familiar with the terminology), as well as someone who would definitely do it again if the right person came along (and my wife liked her), I just wanted to say congrats and good luck.

[Apollia]

Oops, sorry, I somehow missed the rest of your post before, I guess you might have edited it after I first read it, or maybe I'm just an airhead.

Originally Posted by Steve Pavlina

Pretty amazing. I was born at 10:24pm in Santa Monica if that helps.

I honestly don't pay much attention to astrology.

Very interesting to know. Thanks for the replies. It's always more interesting to me when a transit seems accurate for a non-astrologer rather than someone who's into astrology.

Since if someone is into astrology and a transit of theirs seems accurate, I sometimes wonder if there's maybe an element of self-fulfilling prophecy involved, some kind of astrological placebo effect - like maybe, the person believes something remarkable is going to happen around that time, and therefore they unconsciously create some kind of drama in their life around that time to match what they think is "supposed" to happen around the time of the transit.

I just expect the planets to catch up with me when they're ready.

Well, good luck to you and Erin. I consider myself more of an astrology hobbyist rather than an incredibly experienced and knowledgeable astrologer, so, I can't really think of much else to say at the moment, astrology-wise...

Best wishes,
Apollia

[carenkh]

You were already polyamorous, you just hadn't said it out loud, I think, or allowed it to fully manifest.

In regards to you "helping" the women you're with... a few month ago, I was really really wishing that I could live with you for a time! I just felt that your energy would help bust through some blocks I have. I have been "that person" for several people in my life, and I know through being with me, they zoomed up several rungs on the ladder, and expanded their worlds tremendously. (If you look at PD as linear and "up". I don't always, but it's a helpful view at times to get a point across.) So it doesn't really have anything to do with male/female. I almost wrote about the desire to be with you on the forum, but was worried about the response - people telling me I have it all inside me, etc. (worrying how others might respond obviously a place I can grow!). I'm of the mind we DO need others - if we didn't, what are all these other folks here for? And saying "it's all inside me" is a really great way to stay separated from people. On some level, I know it's all inside me, because all of it IS me. But I love the interplay with other humans, and growth that occurs because of that.

I'm excited about seeing where this leads for you! Thanks for your courage in writing about it, and, as always, thanks for being you!

Much love to you both ~

[RRR]

Major positive vibes flowing around today. Either eminating from Steve or something cosmic is going off. I'm a bit blunted and I'm still feeling something major going on. Is anyone else getting this? Something clicked today in the ether.

How do you feel today Steve? Ridiculously radiant ?

Edit: Johnny is an interesting character. He is very far ahead in polyamoury and relationship intimacy, he seems to very genuinely care about people. I feel like he lowers his awareness to help others...or perhaps he navigates the world differently. Ohh! Have Johnny talk to you about creative self-expression in dressing! (its been driving me nuts lately) How cool. I think his diet and some attitudes are self-destructive, I'm not sure if he advocates moderate alcohol use (I tend to get his work mixed with Mystery). I stongly suggest getting to know him well. I can see this being a huge huge growth spurt for your Steve this is a wonderful day

Edit again! AH ha! Your facebook note bumped me! I had a dream about this just a few days ago Steve! There is going to be a congregation of poly-phasic polyamourous lightworkers. Its going to centralize in a city and there is going to be a service at the start..sort of a portable taxicab/sleeping unit service. I really need to clear up my diet and remember things, I have some juices flowing I can't seem to tap into entirely. Keep on gathering up the lightworkers Steve and things are gonna get really interesting

[roxyruby]

How would Steve Feel if Eren shared her love with other men too? Became intimate and slept with other men. I'm just wondering if Steve would be happy with this or not?

[Daffy Duck]

Best wishes to you, Erin and Steve.

Many men have sex with other women, but never tell their wives. This is dishonest. This is fear.

Steve is completely honest with Erin about this. That is good. It gives her a fair choice. She can say "go ahead" or she can say "**** off."

As for me, I love monogamy. Being physically intimate with multiple partners is no more desirable to me than stabbing myself in the chest with a sharp knife or watching a full season of Desperate Housewives (which would be more painful than the knife).

Again, best wishes. I'm glad you're both conscious of your decisions.

[Erin Pavlina]

Originally Posted by roxyruby

How would Steve Feel if Eren shared her love with other men too? Became intimate and slept with other men. I'm just wondering if Steve would be happy with this or not?

Steve has told me he would have no problem with me exploring my sexuality with other men (or women).

As long as things are honest and open between us, I'm good. Like someone else mentioned, if things get uncomfortable or unacceptable for me, I'm free to choose to end our relationship.

[Daffy Duck]

I wonder if any of Steve's readers worship and copy him. As in, since Steve is exploring other women, now they think they should. Have you ever noticed this, Steve?

I would remind those people that Steve is doing what Steve wants to do for his own personal growth. Just because Arnold could lift 500 pounds doesn't mean I need to, unless it's something I truly desire.

[benjaminjames]

This development in Pavlina-land was an interesting one for me. I'm a pretty morally conservative dude (member of the Baha'i Faith), and also a big admirer of Steve's work and character, so for me it's a test of acceptance of other people's views and choices, et cetera.

I've learned a lot about openness and seeing things from multiple viewpoints from Steve's writing over the last few years, and I definitely appreciate the fruit: I'm able to read about this without feeling threatened, angry, disappointed, or other ego-attached type responses. It certainly challenges me, but I'm not flailing around in reactive mode.

Kudos to Steve for the help with openness and the test of it both!

I'm curious to see where this all leads. Our man Steve is a courageous son of a gun, and Erin just the same. I have such faith in their respective honesty, courage, authenticity and love, even though I would normally be pretty skeptical and uninterested in knowing more about polyamory, here I think I might be able to learn a lot.

The Q&A with Erin's bit helped calm some of my worry for the Pavlina family. Be well!

Ben

[ellie]

Originally Posted by Daffy Duck

I wonder if any of Steve's readers worship and copy him. As in, since Steve is exploring other women, now they think they should. Have you ever noticed this, Steve?

I would remind those people that Steve is doing what Steve wants to do for his own personal growth. Just because Arnold could lift 500 pounds doesn't mean I need to, unless it's something I truly desire.

I thought about this too, but actually this topic that Steve has posted made me sit back and really look at what's been said here and what's my true feelings on the matter is. It also reminded me that I need not be swayed by well written words.

I too think it can be quite easy to forget to question are own thoughts and this topic made me well aware of this. Like any person or religion who has a strong set of point of views, we need question, research and not just agree with what has been said.

This topic, has effected me more than I wished to believe. I personally do not agree with what will take effect, not so much because I don't think these things can't work, but because I feel there is something more at play, than Steve and Erin wish to admit.

But in other ways I am glad this topic has been brought to the surface, because it really made me look at myself and who I am. I think I know myself quite well and what I stand for, and for that I thank Steve and Erin...and also my mum

[hopena]

........

[ajkumar]

Okay, I might have generalized a bit in my title, this was just to get your attention to read.

(In regards to your new relationship. I posted here hoping to get a reply from you.)

Steve,

I noticed you haven't been replying to these posts. Maybe you have, I just couldn't find where. Regardless, from what I understand, your wife has agreed for you to go sleep and start relationships with other women? Also, does this applies vice versa?

How in the world do you expect this to work? If you hook up with other women, what will your wife almost instantly feel? Jealousy. Not only that, it's the same as if it were in the Animal Kingdom, she will more than likely feel as if she must now fight for your love and affection.

For your typical "guy", this most definitely the perfect scenario. You have a wife, and she know's your F***ing other chicks on the side. You must have amazing persuasion skills to have made this happen.

You of all people know how one's mind generally works. I'm sure you can forecast what will happen when you bring someone else in the picture. Jealousy, envy, defeat, sadness, etc. My intention was not to come of hasteful, but rather out of curiosity.

If it is okay with you, I would love to do a post about the mindset behind this on my blog.

Persuasive.net

I'm not sure if I'm allowed to link my website, I apologize in advance.

AJ Kumar

[Stephen]

Steve

This must the stupidest thing you have done for a long time.

If you want freedom of sexual expression with multiple partners then marriage is not for you and you should just agree with your spouse to dissolve it.

We all go through fantasies but we also respect the contracts we have made.

If you wish to break the contract then do so and take the consequences.

Dressing up sexual weakness as polywhatdoyoucallit is a great step backwards for you Steve.

I wish both of you well.

[Niamh]

And the Achilles' heel is exposed...

[Asmoday]

You'll have to forgive me, I have not read the entire rest of this thread.

I just had to respond.

Its one of those things that I sort of knew was an internal issue for you, Steve, but I never thought you would dive on this one...

Oh, I laughed until I damn near cried. No, wait, I take that back -- I just wiped a tear from my eye. Yes. I laughed until I cried.

Welcome to the Dark Side, Steve. We've been missing you for a long time.

Its not so bad here. We have cookies. Raw, organic, vegetarian cookies.

Good. Goooooood. Gooooood. Trust your feelings.

[hayden tompkins]

Boy, Steve, you sure know how to knock the holiday fog from one's brain!

I find it...interesting...that you're moving in this direction.

As I've gotten older, I've realized that I am very strongly wired towards Honesty. (One reason I no longer work, or am interested in working, in the legal field.) I don't know if you have ever read any of the Recluse novels but it's kind of like that; I can feel physically ill if I believe that I have done something dishonest or dishonorable. When I was less aligned with my deep need for honesty in earlier relationships, I would break up with my current boyfriend so that I could enjoy myself without feeling badly about it - or that I was cheating.

When Chris and I were intellectually thrashing out the possibilities for our marriage, I told him that for me cheating is a huge 'no'. So much so that I would rather he come to me upfront and let me know if he is interested in another woman. (And vice versa.) At that point we could revisit and evaluate our needs.

So far neither Chris nor I have expressed the need to romantically connect with anyone else.

I do understand your moving towards a more Heinlein-esque relationship, but I would hope that this is a journey you are taking together - fully together - instead of your moving apart. Sometimes our wants craft our logic, and the more persuasive among us can do what we want with impugnity.

It is my sincerest hope that you are moving on this path from a place of deep honesty with yourself. And, selfishly, I hope you continue to share your journey because I am utterly fascinated with it.

[lasti]

Originally Posted by Asmoday

Welcome to the Dark Side, Steve. We've been missing you for a long time.

Seems like you missed the 178 times the word "love" appears in this article.

[ClareDragonfly]

Originally Posted by Niamh

And the Achilles' heel is exposed...

You think someone is going to use Steve's exploration of polyamory to get close to him and kill him?

[Steve Pavlina]

Originally Posted by Asmoday

You'll have to forgive me, I have not read the entire rest of this thread.

I just had to respond.

Its one of those things that I sort of knew was an internal issue for you, Steve, but I never thought you would dive on this one...

Oh, I laughed until I damn near cried. No, wait, I take that back -- I just wiped a tear from my eye. Yes. I laughed until I cried.

Welcome to the Dark Side, Steve. We've been missing you for a long time.

Its not so bad here. We have cookies. Raw, organic, vegetarian cookies.

Good. Goooooood. Gooooood. Trust your feelings.

Lol. Well, that's one of the more amusing interpretations I've seen today.

It's funny how everyone brings something different to their interpretation of this decision. Quite a spectrum to behold.

This reminds me of the spread of feedback I saw when I began my raw diet trial a year ago. A massive spectrum of feedback with each person viewing the decision through a different lens.

Of course many of those lenses will prove to be inaccurate, like the ones that predicted I'd drop dead during my raw diet trial.

I appreciate the warm welcome to the dark side, but I've no plans to switch polarities at this point. If you prefer to interpret my actions through such a lens though, have fun with it.

[Fragrance]

Steve, is it possible that there comes a point beyond which couples can't grow together anymore?

Most of us look at Erin and u as an ideal couple...the kind who'd be together "till death do us part". We love that you both created such a wonderful relationship. It's really disheartening to know that you seem to see no more growth with Erin alone. Erin sounded really excited on her blog saying that her psychic connection with you is through the roof. But for you, does that seem to be a dead-end...the ultimate growth achieved?

You feel you have more love to give and it's getting bottled up inside you with no good outlet for expressing it. But there are various channels for fully expressing the massive energy source of love inside you.

After a blissful marriage like yours, isn't the next step connecting with humanity on a whole new level - kids (including your own), elderly, men, women? You can travel to new places, including developing countries where there's poverty and hardships, and experience relationships on a whole new level with all kinds of people. You can give love to the sections of society that need it the most.

I wonder if you are limiting yourself by looking for intimate relationships with other women. Right now, you sound more like Steve on hormones Surely, love is greater than physical and emotional intimacy? Is there no alternative to expressing your love other than Polyamory?

[eruso]

I'm a little disappointed that you've chosen this path, but to each their own. I sincerely hope it all works out. Erin, you're a tough cookie.

[Steve Pavlina]

If you want to test yourself, then make a prediction about what you think will happen over the course of the next year. Let's see how accurate your predictions turn out to be.

Those who predicted I'd drop dead on my raw diet trial may want to upgrade their predictive circuitry a bit first though.

[Stephen]

Originally Posted by eruso

I'm a little disappointed that you've chosen this path, but to each their own. I sincerely hope it all works out. Erin, you're a tough cookie.

Is she tough? Or backed into a corner?

[JustBe]

Woaw, would be interesting what your experiences are in this field, Steve.

And most of all your point of view..

(Damn, sounds so stupid to call you, " Steve", while I never had met you).

[TheAndySan]

I'm really interested to see how this turns out!

What a way to kick off the new year, Steve!

[Stephen]

Originally Posted by TheAndySan

I'm really interested to see how this turns out!

What a way to kick off the new year, Steve!

Yeah. What a way alright. I wonder how the kids feel? (or will feel about their father)

All things must be paid for.

Cause and effect.

[Brendon Colby]

Originally Posted by Steve Pavlina

It's funny how everyone brings something different to their interpretation of this decision. Quite a spectrum to behold.

I agree. Reading people's reactions has been quite amusing - just all over the place. I'm glad this has come up, because it has helped move my thinking into new directions.

[Asmoday]

Originally Posted by lasti

Seems like you missed the 178 times the word "love" appears in this article.

LOL . Well, I didn't count the number of times, but I certainly saw him say (type) the word a lot. Let's test your theory...

::clears throat:: Love. Puppy Love. True Love. Unconditional Love. Unrestrainable Love. Unrequitted Love. Self-Love. Other Love. Taboo Love. Quick Love. Dirty Love. Toxic Love. Transitory Love. Non-Ego-Identification Love. Spiritual Love. Monastic Love. Self-Sacrificing Love. Double Love. Animal Love. Eternal Love. Love love love. Lovely. She's Loves me. She Love's me not. Universal Love.

Okay, so I just said (typed) the word love as many times as I could in a 30 second time-span.

Have I suddenly changed? Do I feel a need to put the greater good ahead of my own desires? Or, do I still persue my own wants as paramount?

Wait a minute... Nah. Wait... Maybe. No. Wait...

Nope, still a Darkworker.

God, I love this place.

[TDRock]

Indeed. some of these reactions are pretty craze. and I like how so many folks are seemingly glazing over the fact that Erin wrote quite clearly that this was a course she not only consented to, but participated in making the decision and instead are choosing to believe that she is some victimized woman in the corner. I realize I'm a raging non-traditionalist but I don't understand why this decision that someone else has made about their life is so vexing to so many.

[SandeeHier]

I'm not vexed. I just don't see it as something I want to emulate. Or, particularly, read about.*

And I guess I'm not nearly as intuitive as some others. At first, with the title and all, and how Steve had posted a couple weeks back (in Rapid Improvement) that he doesn't have a lot of balance, that some weeks he's in office mode, and his kids barely see him, and then other weeks he does family stuff.... Well, when I saw his new focus was going to be "Intimate Relationships" I was like "Great, he's going to be more consistent about spending time with his kids!"

I guess not.

*Though I see he took out the "magic penis" bits. That does make it read a little better.