2009 Focus - Intimate Relationships (Blog)

[oakspringer]

I'm a redhead with pale skin, but I'm a man!

haha anyways, best to you.

Ben

[Scorpio]

Steve,

Did you have a chance to sow your wild oats before getting into a relationship with Erin, or were you relatively inexperienced when you met her?

Is what you're writing about now a case of you wanting to have the experiences you never got have when you were younger?

I've noticed guys who are comfortable with settling down have gotten the 'experiencing multiple women' thing out of their system. On the other hand, guys who started their romantic life by getting into the relationship they're still in today often wonder what else is out there.

[Kingston]

Congratz on this important step. We are so lucky to have your skills and time devoted to this topic this year. Many will be able to learn more about polyamorous relationships, which is like you said a move up in love and truth.

[danas]

Wow! I congradulate you on the honesty! That takes a lot of courage.
I imagine Erin will be going through a big change this year too.

The last days a very good old friend, who normally lives in another country, was visiting in town.
We developed an intimate relationship for some days. Emotional and physical. It was wonderful. I knew in advance that this will probably not be long term (Though I wasnt 100% closed to this option), because I knew he was going away in a few days, and also because, although we match on so many levels, and we are very attracted to eachother, I guess we suit more as close friends. Now I feel empowered.
The freedom of giving someone unconditional love like that is so great.
Nothing to lose, only gain. I appreciate him entering and exiting my life.

On the other hand Ive been aproached in the past by men who were in open relationships (poly), like you wish to be, where their wives knew and accepted this. but the fact they weren't 100% available always made me hold back, even if I really liked them.
Maybe b/c being single I have so many options open so I would rather chose to open my heart and body to someone I souldn't have to share.
I feel I deserve this. And I think the main thing was that even if I didnt know the wife, and even if she accepted this lifestyle, I always thought of myself in her place, and could feel her pain (which may not have even been there, but I felt it anyway). Which I wouldnt want to add too, even not anonymously.
So thats just my stand on this.
Personally I dont mind free love, no strings attached like I wrote above (with someone I really care for & trust) but it would be only with someone single.
Perhaps there are other women (maybe married ones) who wouldnt mind this though.
This expriement seems like it will be a big test for both you and Erin.
I wish you growth.

[daj]

Interesting post! I've always wondered if open-relationships work out. Most just seem sexually-based, and end up leading to major jealousy and trust issues. Hopefully you and Erin will both be honest with one another and keep us up to date on this topic.

Also is Erin allowed to date other guys if she wants too? How would you handle such a situation without feeling jealous?


Also..I was wondering if you've had any sexual experiences with men? Since you're opened to having an open-relationship in a marriage, would you ever be willing to try it with a guy if you were curious? Just curious how a spiritually opened straight man thinks, lol.

[Erinn]

I am interested in hearing Erin's thoughts on this. Will she be forming relationships with other men as well? Will the new men and women form relationships with both of you or just with one?

Alas, I can't wrap my head around it. I'm another who wonders why emotional intimacy isn't enough. Why does it have to get physical?

[Aleksander Krstic]

I don't know if this is pshychic but last year(a week ago) I've read about your relationship with Erin and just intuitively knew that there's something more about it.

Originally Posted by daj

Interesting post! I've always wondered if open-relationships work out. Most just seem sexually-based, and end up leading to major jealousy and trust issues. Hopefully you and Erin will both be honest with one another and keep us up to date on this topic.

Also is Erin allowed to date other guys if she wants too? How would you handle such a situation without feeling jealous?


Also..I was wondering if you've had any sexual experiences with men? Since you're opened to having an open-relationship in a marriage, would you ever be willing to try it with a guy if you were curious? Just curious how a spiritually opened straight man thinks, lol.

There's nothing spiritual in denying your natural sexual orientation. If you are sure about it, that is.

[rjani]

Wow Steve! Looks like this year's gonna be really exciting.

When I read the first few sentences, I knew this was coming.

After thinking about it for a while, polyamory makes sense on a logical level, since being limited to only one intimate relationship is much like if you'd be limited to only one friendship, which is silly of course.

Intuitively it's harder to grasp for me, mainly because of social conditioning I guess, especially if I think about the partner having other relationships...
Btw, does Erin also want to explore this sort of thing, I mean, having other relationships with other men? You didn't say anything about that, and I'm curious.

Oh, and you're lucky, cause you can now try out that night club thingy you mentioned earlier, with a little variation:"Hey guys, I'm married and I’m currently learning how to meet women at night clubs in spite of having a relationship already, but I'm a total newbie at this. Would you mind if I practice on you just for fun for a couple minutes? And would you give me some honest feedback afterwards?”

[honeybcreates]

I completely understand the feelings that have caused this unrest in your life-situation. It's hard to explain that "it's not you, it's me..." and be credible (that phrase is used so much it's a cliche'). But my desire to explore intimacy with other men after being married for over 30 years really did have nothing to do with my husband. I was at a point in life that I had almost forgotten the excitement of getting to know someone else - and by extension, myself - in that romantic way. However, I neglected to understand that my husband didn't want to share me and the hurt that my exploration caused is still a dark shadow in our relationship. Would I have done anything differently? I don't know, but I did what I felt I had to do in order to live the heart-felt life I wanted to live. My husband and I are still together and my little "experiment" is over, but the other man still has a special place in my heart. I think when I get old (I mean, really old, not just 54 years old as I am now!) I will probably be glad to have those memories that still bring a little rush of excitement and a blush to my cheeks. I'm also glad my marriage survived this period of my life, though, and I hope you can also manage this next "experiment" as well as other areas of your life, Steve. Good Luck!~

[fdr]

that you have the time to devote to multiple intimate relationships. In my own experience with polyamory, even more than the reassuring-one's-primary-partner issue, I found the biggest issue was time management. How do you share your birthday with all the people who love you and want to be with you? What happens when more than one partner wants to go with you to an event you're excited about? I found, for me, that there wasn't enough me-energy to give to all my partners as completely as I desired. Of course, I was only a vegetarian, not a raw foodist, so maybe that would make the difference!

I can only imagine the flood of e-mails you're getting right now from women saying "Sign me up!" I'm looking forward to reading about how you balance your private and public lives with this highly charged decision. Here's to your growth!

[RT Wolf]

Wow. Have you ever read "Stranger from a Strange Land"? Your life and the book has some parallels, hopefully without the ending.

[Monique7nuns]

Over the past few years, due to a superficially charged game of virtual cat and mouse with a married man and even though I haven't experienced a successful intimate relationship in the traditional sense of the term nor many other terms considering how disconnected I am.. I've contemplated this subject at great length.

What you have established and are evolving towards is what I aspire to.. well I can say that about other areas of your life as well - naturally.. but on this subject you have a ground connection w/Erin. You are both consciously evolved enough beyond the ego to experience what I feel is true love.

The entire model for traditional marriage that our society portrays conflicts in just about every possible way to true love. In this respect, it's as if it is inherently designed to fail.

Well, I too can go on about this topic, but suffice to say, kudos for coming out of this particular closet. It will take a great deal of courage and will - I would hazard to guess - be worth every roller coaster ride minute of it.

Thanks too for introducing the term polyamory.. I'd never heard of it til today.

[Steve Pavlina]

Originally Posted by RT Wolf

Wow. Have you ever read "Stranger from a Strange Land"? Your life and the book has some parallels, hopefully without the ending.

Yes, I grokked that book.

[legend]

While you can argue that monogamy is not natural it is in fact the highest evolution we currently have in conscious thinking relationships....
People on this forum throw social conditioning around like it's the anti-christ. The fact is good or bad it does exist in all of us and because of this people will be hurt.
If you do not want to be in your marriage leave it.... this gives Erin the chance to blame you... Stay in this polymoronic thing and she will forever be blaming herself......
wondering where she fell short in filling your needs...

I for one would much rather read about how a thinking man deals with these feelings and is able to maintain a vibrant monogamous relationship....

You can call it evolved human nature but in fact it's the same game that's been played throughout the ages.... Your cake and eat it too....

People will be hurt.....

I know you have made up your mind...
Good Learning.... Some lessons have to be learned the hard way

Much Love

[Plato]

Stage 1 of Operation break-it-to-them-gently complete...

I think I feel mildly oppressed at the fact one has to tread so carefully around topics like this.

[Brutha]

I am interested in hearing Erin's thoughts on this. Will she be forming relationships with other men as well? Will the new men and women form relationships with both of you or just with one?

That reminds me of the discussion whether it's cheating to have sex with astral beings and/or people in lucid dreams.
If I remember right the Pavlinas had to have a discussion about it some time ago.

[Gene]

Originally Posted by Aleksander Krstic

I don't know if this is pshychic but last year(a week ago) I've read about your relationship with Erin and just intuitively knew that there's something more about it.

I felt the same way when I read some time ago in a thread Steve was participating in, what his response to Erin would be if she said had just had wonderful hot sex with someone. My memory of his hypothetical response to her was "You go girl" with love and understanding.

I sensed there was more to the story of Steve and his relationship beliefs then. I am pleased that he has the courage and the honesty to share with us and Erin his thoughts. I look forward to his journey and his process as he goes forward with his plans. It will certainly be a learning experience outside the box of most people.

To Steve; May your journey bring you the lessons you need from this path and great expressions of love from the people you share your life with. I have confidence you will live consciously as you travel this path!

[pylonian]

Steve,

I have been close friends with folks who have immersed themselves in this way of being. For some it turned out (and continues to turn out) very well, for others it was a disaster. The number one factor was the strength of the communication skills of the people involved. I have no worries about your skills, nor Erin's skills - you just have to make sure you find people who are at your frequency and you'll likely be just fine.

Good luck to you.

For anyone who has interest in the basics of polyamory from a philosophical point of view, here is a podcast put together by a philosophy professor in Oregon and a graduate of the same program who has a particular interest in relationship diversity.

Engage: Conversations in Philosophy: What is Polyamory? A New Engage Podcast Series on Relationship Diversity

[Neutral]

Originally Posted by fdr

that you have the time to devote to multiple intimate relationships. In my own experience with polyamory, even more than the reassuring-one's-primary-partner issue, I found the biggest issue was time management.

Yes, you have finite time and energy. And you eventually run into hard limits (at least in this physical world). But I think we'll extended ourselves through technology, and polyamory will be much easier and more wide spread in the future.

But even when polyamory runs into that limit, I still embrace it today. But I see how it couldn't scale past a certain number of parters.

I still identify with monogamy, at least for this point in history. Monogamy is like a conclusion. And when done right it's like solving a math problem.

[Andrew Brunelle]

I remember reading on Dave Pollard's blog about polyamorous relationships and how they're pretty natural. At least Steve is being open and honest about it. I think that marriage is in some ways a trap, so even though he still deeply loves Erin, it makes sense that he can share the rest of his love with others. To deeply connect with more souls is something positive and shouldn't be viewed as something negative. Best of luck to you, Steve.

I'm sure you'll have a very happy New Year.

[lasti]

YEAH! Steve's on the market again!
What an awesome article! I completely understand your decision. I always thought: One thing I'll never understand about people is monogamy.
It's so awesome how conscious and connected to love you both are!

Originally Posted by Steve Pavlina

For some reason I've always had a strong attraction to redheads with pale skin.

That's me! Damn... how to get to Las Vegas now... Any chance you're going to visit Europe in 2009?

[Jack Christopher]

Erin already was polyamorous. She just sneezed and gave you the bug. And now that it's developed you want to go around and spread it.

She taught you how to love and connect with others. You taught her how to have focus and express power over her life. It's time for you two to repeat the cycle with other people. And that's a beautiful thing. And it's how personal development should work.

[Calicatt]

Hey Steve,

As honest and open as most of this post was, some of it felt a bit "false" to me. It seems that your fantasized relationship to women is one of the very socialized "man saves woman" type, and since you're not getting that with Erin, you are turning elsewhere.

You wrote :"What really inspires me is the thought of connecting with a woman who’s pretty conscious and aware, but in some area of her life, she’s still a little bit closed or blocked...If I can show her how loved and cherished she really is, and just how much value she has to share with the world, something magical can happen."

This sounds like the "knight saving the damsel in distress" model more than a progressive, new way of looking at male-female relationships. I've really enjoyed your blog because you don't have as much as the machissimo/I-have-to-prove-myself-a-man bravado that many male personal development writers have. But with your annoyance/anxiety at feeling so much "feminine" energy on the juice fast, and now your desire to go out and "save" more women, I wonder if it might be beneficial for you to consider your relationship to womankind/femininity in general rather than just laying the blame of your frustrations on the social conventions of marriage.

I'm not saying this is easy...relations between the sexes are one of the most fraught areas of social life, full of stereotypes, myths, and "social conditioning" and they have caused a lot of pain, oppression, and fear in societies throughout the ages... honestly, courageously and vulnerably analyzing your own preconceptions about men and women is a difficult task, and not one I've ever seen truly completed... but I've not known you as one to back down from a challenge And I certainly see it as a fruitful area of growth for anyone who wishes, as I think we all here do, to improve the world.

[RT Wolf]

Originally Posted by Steve Pavlina

Yes, I grokked that book.

Lol. Heinlein's a master.

[Steve Pavlina]

Originally Posted by supertom

isnt this illigeal in the US ?? sorry i dont know the laws

You're confusing polyamory with polygamy.

[Speedbump]

Steve, I wish all the best for you and Erin. I figure if anyone can make this type of relationship work, it's you two.

My only concern is that you seem to want to save these new women from themselves on some level. It has been my personal experience that any relationship, romantic or otherwise, based on "fixing" someone ends in disaster 100% of the time. If you truly are wanting to "fix" someone in that way, it would be a lot more efficient to ask yourself why and discover the answer inside than to have a disaster of a projected relationship that you have to sort through the wreckage of to glean nuggets of positive information from. I know when I saw the pattern in my own life and got to work on me instead of other people, my results were far, far better in every regard. I am still working on that, but at least I'm looking in the right place now.

It might be your word choice in the post that has led me (and apparently Calicatt) to reach this conclusion wrongly, and that you don't actually feel that way. I hope it's true, for your sake and for your family's.

Good luck!

[Steve Pavlina]

Originally Posted by Calicatt

Hey Steve,

As honest and open as most of this post was, some of it felt a bit "false" to me. It seems that your fantasized relationship to women is one of the very socialized "man saves woman" type, and since you're not getting that with Erin, you are turning elsewhere.

You wrote :"What really inspires me is the thought of connecting with a woman who’s pretty conscious and aware, but in some area of her life, she’s still a little bit closed or blocked...If I can show her how loved and cherished she really is, and just how much value she has to share with the world, something magical can happen."

This sounds like the "knight saving the damsel in distress" model more than a progressive, new way of looking at male-female relationships. I've really enjoyed your blog because you don't have as much as the machissimo/I-have-to-prove-myself-a-man bravado that many male personal development writers have. But with your annoyance/anxiety at feeling so much "feminine" energy on the juice fast, and now your desire to go out and "save" more women, I wonder if it might be beneficial for you to consider your relationship to womankind/femininity in general rather than just laying the blame of your frustrations on the social conventions of marriage.

I'm not saying this is easy...relations between the sexes are one of the most fraught areas of social life, full of stereotypes, myths, and "social conditioning" and they have caused a lot of pain, oppression, and fear in societies throughout the ages... honestly, courageously and vulnerably analyzing your own preconceptions about men and women is a difficult task, and not one I've ever seen truly completed... but I've not known you as one to back down from a challenge And I certainly see it as a fruitful area of growth for anyone who wishes, as I think we all here do, to improve the world.

I actually agree with you. I thought that part was kind of lame when I wrote it, but I didn't have time to expand on and clarify it. I wanted to make it sound more mutual in terms of helping each other grow instead of trying to repair some kind of defect in each other.

Part of the problem is that I'm guessing at what to expect because this is new territory for me. My relationship with Erin involved healing a lot of issues in both of us, but that may not be the right model for future relationships.

Maybe I'll edit that part (or just remove it) to make it more clear.

[Pace]

Hmm, if I know anything about Steve, it's that when he picks an area of his life for growth, he researches it like a man on fire. So I doubt he's in need of "Intro to Poly"-type primers; I bet he's read them all already.

Steve, am I right? (:

(Now that I think about it, men on fire probably aren't the epitome of excellent research habits.)

[andreelerowes]

I actually agree with you. I thought that part was kind of lame when I wrote it, but I didn't have time to expand on and clarify it. I wanted to make it sound more mutual in terms of helping each other grow instead of trying to repair some kind of defect in each other.

Thank God! It really does read like "I have a magical penis and I can save you all!" And I was under the impression that you were less delusional than that. =) If you do rewrite it, just think about how much you can learn, too. Good luck with it all... it's a tough path, but respectable — as long as you don't get all guru on us. Cheers!

[HealingMaven]

Originally Posted by andreelerowes

Thank God! It really does read like "I have a magical penis and I can save you all!"

*ROFLMAO*

See, I've met someone who does that (long story) and I didn't *think* that was Steve's bag... but that line did worry me a bit about setting up a teacher-student dynamic in a new relationship. Which, hey, if it's your kink good for you, but I've seen that skew power dynamics and destabilize relationships.