Why is steve so against jobs?

[dwixi]

I understand that jobs are not always the best thing for people but really ... isn't working for someone just the same as having your own business?
Really your boss is just your business client and your workmates are just business partners. Its just a longer term project than if you had your own business.
I know that people that don't look at it in this way have the danger of seeing their job as something else.
So yeah what I'm asking is is their really a need to be so against jobs, you have an article called " 10 reasons why you should never get a job" There good points for people that are unaimed in life and don't know what there doing but the same problems that you said happen when you have a job would also happen to those kind of people if they had a business too!
Thanks.

[Dimond]

Originally Posted by dwixi

isn't working for someone just the same as having your own business?

If you're doing it correctly, it isn't even close to being the same thing. By correctly, I mean running a business you're passionate about (at least to some degree) and offering something useful to others. I've had over 125 different jobs and hated the majority of them. But have loved running my own businesses. A bad day running my own business is far more rewarding than the best day working for someone else.

There are some that it works well for them to be an employee and others a business owner. Everyone is different. One downfall to working for others is that it's rare you will get paid what you're worth working for others, without having to work very hard, wait years, sacrifice much, etc. The downfalls of a business owner are much less, especially if you choose to control things rather than let the business run you much as an employer would.

[babuji]

I can see why Steve emphasizes not having a regular job. I think it's really geared towards waking people up from their narrow thinking. We've been trained as a society to see jobs as the best way to make a living, and I think Steve simply wants people to take that same concept from a different viewpoint.

Nevertheless, I'd be interested to hear Steve's thoughts on hiring employees of his own in the future if he felt the need to expand. Essentially wouldn't that contradict his way of thinking?

Steve is fortunate to have a business model where he doesn't need employees right now. However, there are businesses that would require offering jobs to other people just because it's the most practical, ie, restaurant, or any other brick and mortar business.

What would be Steve's thoughts on that?

[Dimond]

It mainly has to do with how you treat your employees. When I had a business with independent contractors, I treated them mostly as equals. They had a lot of freedom, received rewards and praise for good work, got paid very quickly, were allowed to give input and be creative, had many perks, the job was more fun than work, etc. If you're helping to enhance people's lives whether they're your customer or employee, then you're truly offering something of value.

[Savage]

I write anti-job pieces because so many of us are socially conditioned to believe that jobs are just a natural and expected part of life. I like to nudge people to take a more conscious look at the alternatives. We're taught to believe we must have jobs, but the truth is that they're usually more trouble than they're worth.

In the scope of human history, jobs are a fairly recent invention, a modernization of slavery and indentured servitude.

Between the jobbed and the jobless folks I know, the jobless ones are almost invariably happier, healthier, wealthier, and wiser. People who have jobs for a long time tend to be really messed up -- it's like every ounce of courage has been drained out of them, and many suffer from panaphobia (fear of everything).

[Eric Revelin]

Originally Posted by Dimond

It mainly has to do with how you treat your employees. When I had a business with independent contractors, I treated them mostly as equals..

That right there is key. I think if Steve ever felt a need to expand his empire this is how he would do it.

The problem isn't with work, it's with the employee mindset. The basic idea is that it's smart to sell your ambitions and your soul to a company that uses you as they wish without compensating you adequately. You are not a human, you are a robot. You are not a person, you are property. The phrase "wage slavery" is frighteningly close to the truth.

That's great if you want somebody else to make all of your decisions for you, but if you wanna live consciously you can't stay in that position for very long.

[DAveNJ]

Originally Posted by Steve Pavlina

........

Between the jobbed and the jobless folks I know, the jobless ones are almost invariably happier, healthier, wealthier, and wiser. People who have jobs for a long time tend to be really messed up -- it's like every ounce of courage has been drained out of them, and many suffer from panaphobia (fear of everything).

Yes, this is me exactly. I have worked in a corporate job since I graduated college in 1984. The first step is realizing it is a problem for me and then doing something about it. Now I have to keep asking and searching for how I can create value and deliver it.

The best thing that could happen is for me to get laid off. I don't believe I have the courage to just quit.
Wow. I did not even realize how scared I am! I am afraid of losing health insurance, benefits, salary, losing home, being homeless, going hungry......so I stay at a corporate jail (The place I work is surrounded by a huge fence and I have to enter and exit through card key activated turnstyles) where I am basically dead as far as creative value or being innovative and excited.

You are exactly right again Steve. Thanks!





Dave

[dwixi]

Originally Posted by Steve Pavlina

I write anti-job pieces because so many of us are socially conditioned to believe that jobs are just a natural and expected part of life. I like to nudge people to take a more conscious look at the alternatives. We're taught to believe we must have jobs, but the truth is that they're usually more trouble than they're worth.

In the scope of human history, jobs are a fairly recent invention, a modernization of slavery and indentured servitude.

Between the jobbed and the jobless folks I know, the jobless ones are almost invariably happier, healthier, wealthier, and wiser. People who have jobs for a long time tend to be really messed up -- it's like every ounce of courage has been drained out of them, and many suffer from panaphobia (fear of everything).

The thing I'm having trouble with is... where do you draw the line between a job and a business job... say you had a business in game development and you made your own games, what would be the difference between doing that as a business and doing that working for someone... There could be many advantages to working for someone... you would get more skilled people to work with on a daily basis, technology that you might not be able to afford if it was your own business and a building made specifically for you to do the work you love in.
I could see the downside of working permanently for one company making you scared about loosing it because you get so used to not having to find ways to make money from your work... but i cant think of any other downsides..
I personally prefer to have a business because the kind of things i want to be involved in the creation and marketing of (art and music) you can't get a job doing that kind of thing without majority compromising the kind of things i want to do.

[dwixi]

Originally Posted by DAveNJ

Yes, this is me exactly. I have worked in a corporate job since I graduated college in 1984. The first step is realizing it is a problem for me and then doing something about it. Now I have to keep asking and searching for how I can create value and deliver it.

The best thing that could happen is for me to get laid off. I don't believe I have the courage to just quit.
Wow. I did not even realize how scared I am! I am afraid of losing health insurance, benefits, salary, losing home, being homeless, going hungry......so I stay at a corporate jail (The place I work is surrounded by a huge fence and I have to enter and exit through card key activated turnstyles) where I am basically dead as far as creative value or being innovative and excited.

You are exactly right again Steve. Thanks!





Dave

If you don't have the courage to quit then your not going to have the courage to run your own business.
You need to build your courage at-least the the point where you will quit before you should.

[bluedragon]

I think that if more and more people will adopt the conscious, independent mindset, and they would only sell their services to another person if that person would offer them a decent reward in accord with the value they bring to his business, than most business owners would start treating employees better and the whole corporate medium would change.
That's how LOA works, but even in terms of scientific cause and effect, the same thing would happen, only slower.

[PerDev]

Is it right to say that if you are doing job it means you are slave ?

Originally Posted by dwixi

I understand that jobs are not always the best thing for people but really ... isn't working for someone just the same as having your own business?
Really your boss is just your business client and your workmates are just business partners. Its just a longer term project than if you had your own business.
I know that people that don't look at it in this way have the danger of seeing their job as something else.
So yeah what I'm asking is is their really a need to be so against jobs, you have an article called " 10 reasons why you should never get a job" There good points for people that are unaimed in life and don't know what there doing but the same problems that you said happen when you have a job would also happen to those kind of people if they had a business too!
Thanks.

[Theo77]

I think it has to do with being what Aristotle described as "the Great Souled man"

[Savage]

Originally Posted by DAveNJ

Yes, this is me exactly. I have worked in a corporate job since I graduated college in 1984. The first step is realizing it is a problem for me and then doing something about it. Now I have to keep asking and searching for how I can create value and deliver it.

The best thing that could happen is for me to get laid off. I don't believe I have the courage to just quit.
Wow. I did not even realize how scared I am! I am afraid of losing health insurance, benefits, salary, losing home, being homeless, going hungry......so I stay at a corporate jail (The place I work is surrounded by a huge fence and I have to enter and exit through card key activated turnstyles) where I am basically dead as far as creative value or being innovative and excited.

You are exactly right again Steve. Thanks!

What's funny is that many people in these situations will escape into computer games where they get to play the role of a homeless, jobless character who goes around having fun adventures.

But it's hard to admit that we secretly want to have so much fun in real life.

[dwixi]

Originally Posted by Steve Pavlina

What's funny is that many people in these situations will escape into computer games where they get to play the role of a homeless, jobless character who goes around having fun adventures.

But it's hard to admit that we secretly want to have so much fun in real life.

Lol

[Andrew Brunelle]

I got laid off from my job and it was the best thing that could've happened to me because now I'm creating so much more value than ever before. Sure, I'm not making money from it yet, but time is on my side.

[now or never]

"I like to nudge people to take a more conscious look at the alternatives. We're taught to believe we must have jobs, but the truth is that they're usually more trouble than they're worth." (Steve)

Isn't this an "away from" sort of motivation?

Just imagine the incredible "towards" motivation that could be generated if people had some clearer ideas on HOW.

Why don't you write an article Steve along the lines of "How to Create Value for Dummies?"

The value would:

a) Enable the reader to earn value and live a better lifestyle than they would in employment.
b) not involve technology or self help (heaven forbid we all jump on the same band-wagon!)
c) Would be aligned with a persons true purpose (once we've discovered how the majority of people find it and whether it really exists within individuals).

In fact if Steve or anyone else can offer the answer to this, they'll be an overnight celebrity!

[dwixi]

Originally Posted by now or never

"I like to nudge people to take a more conscious look at the alternatives. We're taught to believe we must have jobs, but the truth is that they're usually more trouble than they're worth." (Steve)

Isn't this an "away from" sort of motivation?

Just imagine the incredible "towards" motivation that could be generated if people had some clearer ideas on HOW.

Why don't you write an article Steve along the lines of "How to Create Value for Dummies?"

The value would:

a) Enable the reader to earn value and live a better lifestyle than they would in employment.
b) not involve technology or self help (heaven forbid we all jump on the same band-wagon!)
c) Would be aligned with a persons true purpose (once we've discovered how the majority of people find it and whether it really exists within individuals).

In fact if Steve or anyone else can offer the answer to this, they'll be an overnight celebrity!

Ha! His latist post was just this!
Do you thikn he got his idea from you?

[impaul99]

Originally Posted by Steve Pavlina

What's funny is that many people in these situations will escape into computer games where they get to play the role of a homeless, jobless character who goes around having fun adventures.

But it's hard to admit that we secretly want to have so much fun in real life.

What do you mean? I'm unemployed in real life, but in World of Warcraft I have 2 professions!

[Eric Revelin]

Originally Posted by now or never

In fact if Steve or anyone else can offer the answer to this, they'll be an overnight celebrity!

No he/they wouldn't. Just because an answer exists it doesn't mean that everyone is ready to adopt it. Genius often goes unrecognized.

[Acting Like Godot]

Originally Posted by Steve Pavlina

Between the jobbed and the jobless folks I know, the jobless ones are almost invariably happier, healthier, wealthier, and wiser.

LOL, those are just the people you happen to know.

Between the jobbed and the jobless folks I know, the jobless folks are almost invariably the ones out on the streets begging for spare change.

They don't strike me as particularly happy or healthy or wise either.

[impaul99]

Originally Posted by Acting Like Godot

LOL, those are just the people you happen to know.

Between the jobbed and the jobless folks I know, the jobless folks are almost invariably the ones out on the streets begging for spare change.

They don't strike me as particularly happy or healthy or wise either.

Personally I prefer to advocate "Making Money Doing What You Love", and that is the theme of my Blog. I see these four possibilities:

(1) Being Unemployed and Not Doing What You Love
(2) Having a Job that Pays Your Bills But You're Not Doing What You Love
(3) Having a Job Doing What You Love (Could involve partial ownership in company, such as for example working for Google and owning stock options)
(4) Being Self Employed Doing What You Love

I don't think it's that bad to have a job as long as it's #3 above, and not #2. I personally prefer #4, but if the thing I loved to do required a lot of co-operation with other people, such as for example being a video game designer, I might prefer #3. I think #2 is what Steve is really trying to get people to shake and to him doing #1 is even better than #2 because it will probably lead you a lot quicker to #4.... or you'll starve.

[Geovani]

Originally Posted by now or never

Just imagine the incredible "towards" motivation that could be generated if people had some clearer ideas on HOW.

Why don't you write an article Steve along the lines of "How to Create Value for Dummies?"

The value would:

a) Enable the reader to earn value and live a better lifestyle than they would in employment.
b) not involve technology or self help (heaven forbid we all jump on the same band-wagon!)
c) Would be aligned with a persons true purpose (once we've discovered how the majority of people find it and whether it really exists within individuals).

Steve talks a lot about working with technology, personal development and the written word, but obviously that's not the only way people can provide value, love their work and be self-employed. He talks about his experiences, and does that to inspire us. He couldn't possibly talk with authority about any other option he didn't personally tried (only present a limited scope of examples of what others have done), because that wouldn't have much value – it would be missing the most important part, which is exactly the personal experience. After being stimulated by his words, it's up to us to try things and discover what really moves us that can provide the kind of value that can be exchanged for money (or anything else we want).

[moonrambler]

Originally Posted by impaul99

Personally I prefer to advocate "Making Money Doing What You Love", and that is the theme of my Blog. I see these four possibilities:

(1) Being Unemployed and Not Doing What You Love
(2) Having a Job that Pays Your Bills But You're Not Doing What You Love
(3) Having a Job Doing What You Love (Could involve partial ownership in company, such as for example working for Google and owning stock options)
(4) Being Self Employed Doing What You Love

I don't think it's that bad to have a job as long as it's #3 above, and not #2. I personally prefer #4, but if the thing I loved to do required a lot of co-operation with other people, such as for example being a video game designer, I might prefer #3. I think #2 is what Steve is really trying to get people to shake and to him doing #1 is even better than #2 because it will probably lead you a lot quicker to #4.... or you'll starve.

I agree very much with you, and I don't know why #3 has to be completely ignored around here. Some people do not want to run their own business. I suppose ideally, people who do work where they traditionally need to have a job, could work as a partner with someone instead of as an employee, but I can also see where that's a problem because in some cases one person needs to be more in charge. I was thinking of a friend who's a veterinary assistant. She thinks she's got the greatest job in the universe. She'd do this for free, but amazingly, somebody actually pays her to do it. I suppose she could set up her own veterinary assistant business, but she doesn't want to run a business. She wants to play with animals and pet cats and take dogs for walks.

[jawillie]

Originally Posted by Steve Pavlina

What's funny is that many people in these situations will escape into computer games where they get to play the role of a homeless, jobless character who goes around having fun adventures.

But it's hard to admit that we secretly want to have so much fun in real life.

That's my husband 100%.

He has his college degree and his managerial job with high income and he is MISERABLE.

BUT.. he chases money, not passions, so I am not sure he can ever be helped until he cuts the death grip money has on him!!! He believes security is in money and a "secure job." What is so secure about a job in a company that could go under at any time???

I have a "job" too, but at least I am running my own business. I do have some say. (though there is that fine line of pleasing the clients and running it your own way) I am still seeking something more aligned to my heart and soul's desires though.

I believe chasing money is the mistake I have been making and I am really working hard at chasing passions now.

[Acting Like Godot]

Originally Posted by impaul99

(1) Being Unemployed and Not Doing What You Love
(2) Having a Job that Pays Your Bills But You're Not Doing What You Love
(3) Having a Job Doing What You Love (Could involve partial ownership in company, such as for example working for Google and owning stock options)
(4) Being Self Employed Doing What You Love

You missed a couple, like:

(5) Being Self Employed and Doing What You Hate

(6) Being Self Employed, Doing What You Love, But Not Earning Enough to Pay The Bills.

Steve tends to miss these possibilities too.

[impaul99]

Originally Posted by Acting Like Godot

You missed a couple, like:

(5) Being Self Employed and Doing What You Hate

(6) Being Self Employed, Doing What You Love, But Not Earning Enough to Pay The Bills.

Steve tends to miss these possibilities too.

#5 is kind of silly, but I know it happens. It typically shows up in people's lives when they chase money instead of passion. They mistakenly think that being self-employed will put some passion into doing something they hate.

#6 happens all the time. In fact, I would say it happens more often than not which is why most people are afraid to give up their jobs because it's guaranteed.

However, once you're at #6 working towards #4, there are many options available to bridge the gap. For example, you could take on some temporary part time work to make up the shortfall between your business income and your work income.

The main thing with all of this is that whether you're working at a job or working for yourself, how much money you make comes down to things like Law of Attraction, your beliefs etc. When people work at jobs they hate, it's harder to make a lot of money because they are always miserable and so all they attract is more misery.

When you hate what you do to earn money, you're always weighing the scales between earning another dollar by working another minute or stopping your money earning tasks and doing something you enjoy. It's like a constant battle between WORK and PLAY in your life. You only WORK so that you can afford to PLAY.

However, when you love what you do for a living then WORK becomes PLAY and you stop having that inner battle in your mind all the time. Now you actually enjoy your life because you're PLAYING all the time. That puts you in a much better state of being to attract abundance in life.

Just today I was talking to someone and they were asking me what I'm doing. I was just working on a Blog post announcing the winners in my affiliate marketing contest on my Blog, and then they asked me what I'm doing later on. I told them that I'm going to get some lunch and then write another Blog post announcing the second contest, to which they replied saying "Well, don't work too hard, it's the weekend!"

And to that I said "Well, when work = play, you can never work too hard because I'm never working." I'm excited about doing what I do which puts me in a much better state of mind to attract abundance. If I had to go to a job I despised to work today though, I'd be miserable about it.

[dwixi]

Albert enstein even found it hard to make money from his passion.

[Lupe]

Could you expound on this?

[dwixi]

Originally Posted by Lupe

Could you expound on this?

"science is a wonderful thing, if one does not have to earn his living from it"
Albert Einstein

Einstein Worked as a patent clerk even at the time when his most famous theorys were published.

[Lupe]

Originally Posted by Steve Pavlina

In the scope of human history, jobs are a fairly recent invention, a modernization of slavery and indentured servitude.

Could you expound on this?