10 reasons you should never get a job

[eastcoastgirl]

Good article. I don’t agree with a lot of it, but it’s funny and there is some truth to it. Before I get down to it, I want to say that I will probably retire from my job next year. I’ve been looking at Steve’s site for about a week. Good stuff. I’m hoping it will help me figure out what I want to do when I retire. I will be free, I mean absolutely free, to do whatever I want for the first time in my life. WOW! It’s scaaary.

Now, here’s perspective from someone who has actually held a job, Steve.

First, my background. Graduated high school. Average student. No motivation or ambition. Would have been happy to let my mother support me for the rest of my life even though we didn’t get along. She, wisely, said, “No way.”

I got a job as a clerk-typist for the government. That was 36 years ago. I eventually got a college degree, partly paid for by the government. I am now fairly well-paid professional. I stuck with the old retirement system, which means that, when I retire, I will get an annuity. That’s in addition to the money I socked away in the government's savings plan (meaning that, while I was out having dinner, I was earning money).

Will I be rich? No. Will I be secure? Yes. Am I sorry I worked all those years for the government? Absolutely not. I am a public servant. I serve the public. I am proud of it.

1. Income for dummies. “Why is getting a job so dumb? Because you only get paid when you’re working.” First, not true. Second, I’m no dummy. When I take leave, I’m getting paid. However, when a self-employed plumber takes a few hours to go to the doctor, he is not getting paid.

2. Limited experience. “You might think it’s important to get a job to gain experience. A job only gives you experience at that job….” Not true. Here’s what I learned on the job: punctuality, the importance of meeting deadlines, dependability, good work ethics, how to manage people and projects, how to multi-task, excellent customer service skills, tact, how to work well with others, and excellent skills in my profession. I really can’t even name them all. My employer has paid for classes for me, and I got paid while I was attending those classes. In addition to all of that, I have had the privilege to work with world-renowned researchers in world-renowned research areas. The most important thing I learned was to care—to care about doing the best job I could do, to care about the people I work with, and to care about the public trust.

3. Lifelong domestication. You’ve got a point on this one.
4. Too many mouths to feed. Taxes. Not really true in my case. Yes, I pay taxes, but I don’t get taxed any more than you do.
5. Way too risky. Not true. It’s very hard to get fired from the government. I know because I’ve had to fire people.
6. Begging for money. Not true in my case.
7. An inbred social life. Not true. Although we are very much like family, we rarely socialize with one another--just like family.
8. Loss of freedom. True on this one.
10. Becoming a coward. Sometimes true. Depends on the people.

[munish]

............

[eastcoastgirl]

Here's a reason not to get a job. It suffocates creative thought. The rules and the institutionalized thinking of a large organization discourage creativity and risk taking.

I'm going to retire next year, so I would like to figure out what I want to do for the rest of my life. I've been focusing on developing myself physically, intellectually, emotionally, spiritually, etc. I've done some of that all my life, but the last couple of years have been a renewed effort. Recently, ran across Steve's Website. In my opinion, it's one of the best out there. I've been looking at a lot of them. One of the reasons I like it is that his advice is very practical.

I tried doing his "How to discover your life purpose in about 20 minutes." I failed. I got depressed. BUT I have snapped back, and I believe that part of my problem is that I have 36 years of institutional clutter to get rid of before I can even begin to think of my purpose in life. I have activities and projects that I plan to do when I retire, but a couple of projects for the rest of my life isn't going to cut it. I'm a healthy, active 54-year-old woman. I may live another 50 years (maybe not, but I could!). I want to figure out what I love. I want to live my life to the fullest that I possibly can. I want to be passionate about something.

How do I do that? Thanks.

[Ann]

Wow, you're so much further ahead than my mother. I wish she were like you

You act like you are in your 20s... Good luck!

[Baltar]

I think one of the problems people have with Steve's articles is that the articles aren't really meant as a "catch-all". In other words they're not right for everyone. BUT, I do think that in general what Steve says should resonate with a large portion of the visitors to his site.

All the reasons given in the 10 reasons you should never get a job article are correct if your top values match. I agree with all of them myself because my main value is Freedom, and Security is not even on the list of my top 10 values. In fact at this point I'd rather be dead than work as an employee. How's that for motivation?

[eastcoastgirl]

Thanks, Ann!

[genn]

I believe You do it.

[Kylark]

Eastcoastgirl, thank you for posting some of the reasons why getting a job is OK. I currently work for an employer, and it's nice to be reminded of some reasons why it's not ALL bad.

Best wishes on finding your passion. Just put the intention out there and be open and I'm sure it will develop.

[Bing Wu]

Some people, given their level of consciousness and preferences, will choose to be employees. Others will find self-employment better. Steve Pavlina gives people in the second boat a push in the direction that they were meant to go. People who are best suited as employees, or who like being employed, will of course still find adequate justification to stay that way.

[Savage]

The reason I wrote that article in such a snarky style was to polarize people into deciding how they wanted to make a living. Personally I don't care whether people choose to be employees or otherwise... just that they make the choice consciously instead of having someone else decide for them (parents, society, etc).

That article still generates tons of feedback because it pushes people to form an opinion one way or another. It's also been very effective at giving dozens of fence sitters the final nudge they needed to start their own businesses. It generates a bit of ongoing negative feedback, but if it helps people take the plunge into going after their dreams, it's worth it.

[thadroe]

Originally Posted by Steve Pavlina

It's also been very effective at giving dozens of fence sitters the final nudge they needed to start their own businesses. It generates a bit of ongoing negative feedback, but if it helps people take the plunge into going after their dreams, it's worth it.

Yeah, It definitely gave me the nudge I needed!... and I can't thank you enough for that...I haven't quit my job quite yet, but I've already let my employer know I will be quitting no later than June.

What's crazy is that after I let them know, they are giving me incredible flexibility to take time off and wind things down....so even though I'm still working for a short while, I'm enjoying much more freedom and am 10X happier. I'm using the transition period to pay off my debts so I never have to go back to work again!

[Savage]

Congrats, Thadroe! Seeing people like you make conscious career changes is one of the most gratifying parts of running this website. I imagine you must be experiencing that wonderful blend of excitement and courage where everything in life seems more alive.

[thadroe]

Originally Posted by Steve Pavlina

I imagine you must be experiencing that wonderful blend of excitement and courage where everything in life seems more alive.

Exactly! I am more relaxed and happy than I have been in years. I also realize how much I have just been living in a state of fear and was merely waiting around for the future.

Thad

[eastcoastgirl]

Originally Posted by Steve Pavlina

The reason I wrote that article in such a snarky style was to polarize people into deciding how they wanted to make a living. Personally I don't care whether people choose to be employees or otherwise... just that they make the choice consciously instead of having someone else decide for them (parents, society, etc).

That article still generates tons of feedback because it pushes people to form an opinion one way or another. It's also been very effective at giving dozens of fence sitters the final nudge they needed to start their own businesses. It generates a bit of ongoing negative feedback, but if it helps people take the plunge into going after their dreams, it's worth it.

Thanks, Steve. I agree. I realize that working for someone else is not for everyone. I admire people who strike out on their own. It takes guts, but it's the right choice for them.

My mother got the ball rolling by deciding for me, but then, apparently, I took over. For a long time, I didn't take any responsibility for what was happening to me. I thought it was just dumb luck. At some point, I had to acknowledge that I was making it happen with the choices I made and with hard work. I'm very grateful. Not everyone gets the chances I got. I started out as an extremely unmotivated, insecure, unhappy young woman. I could have easily ignored the opportunities that came to me (I mean, they were almost handed to me on a silver platter). I could have let fear paralyze me. Believe me, I was afraid. I had a few very good mentors, I was in the right places at the right time, and I seemed to have an ability to recognize when to take action. I know people, however, who stayed in dead-end jobs their whole lives, unhappy and bitter every minute of every day, but too afraid to take the risk of moving on. I encourage anyone who is faced with that situation to take the risk and start your own business. Or at least, find another job that makes you happy.

Thanks again. This is good stuff.

[Taking Action]

The point is, it is a CHOICE. Having been an employee for 30 years and now self employed, I see the value of both. However, the truth is that self employment is not for everyone. It requires a different mindset, different energy and different focus. Some people are psychologically attached to a paycheck and the transition from the work world to self employment is rarely successful. However, if the mindset of success is prevelent and there is no emotional attachment to a job, anyone person can be extremely successful on their own with the right vehicle and attitude. Let's face it, no one gets rich working for someone else. Millionaires are usually self made and that is done in the entrepreneurial world. Money is not everything but certainly is extraordinarily important.

[momentum]

Yikes this has plagued me for a while. I would appreciate thoughts on this if anyone has been in a similar situation

I'm in a senior position in a european corporation that pays well, gives me six weeks of vacation, provides private health insurance, reduced mortgage rates, yearly bonuses, benefits for my children, and frankly the job is pretty easy at this point. Plus, it's very difficult to be released from my contract.

What's my problem?

I have this entrerpenuerial/freedom mindset. (I'm American by the way). My corporate career is zapping me creatively.

I have a steady side business that has been growing steadily the last three years. It's driving me nuts staying in corporate life because I'm probably two years away from making the same or more from my side business. I don't want to work for anyone anymore.

I'm getting impatient, and want to move more quickly, but there's a mortgage and family to tend to.

[Dave Navarro]

Originally Posted by momentum

I'm getting impatient, and want to move more quickly, but there's a mortgage and family to tend to.

So ... what's "holding you back" from moving more quickly?

I'll bet you there's some things you can do to accelerate that won't put the mortgage and family at risk.

Let us know what's "preventing" you from moving more quickly and we'll see what we can advise to help you out ...

Rock on,

Dave Navarro

[momentum]

Hi Dave,

Call me crazy - but i'm shooting for a cash reserve of 100k + this year. That would help set things up. I am currently servicing all the clients I can handle, but I would need to go closer to full time to generate the income i need.

I'm working on product creation, but it also slow going and takes time away from client work.

Essentially, I'm too busy working in my business rather than on it!

I realize this. I know I am the main constraint, but clients are knocking on the door and they want to deal with me, so it's difficult to have them all deal with my assiociates....

Thanks
mo

[Kylark]

Momentum - why not go full-time with your business? It sounds like the demand is there and it's just waiting for you to commit to it.

I think you know what the right thing to do is and you're just looking for that final push.

Best wishes for success in your business!

[CreativeSpace]

I read Steve's article and it really made me think!

Working does give me a sense of positivity like increasing self-esteem and taking on responsibility (I look after autistic and Asperger clients which is demanding challenging work) but I have always had that "feeling" in the back of my mind that makes me think I am going in the wrong direction. Security or the idea of security is a intoxicating thing and part of me is quite happy to tread that eternal treadmill so I be secure but after reading the article I did think to myself am I really secure?????? Isn't it the case that security should bring happiness????? I don't think I am happy!!!! One minute I am singing my job's praises saying how great it is and then the next I see it as boring, uncreative, bland and "going nowhere". Irony is one of my favourite words! HAHAHAHA!

The real me, the one that I can indulge the Law Of Attraction with is being an artist. I am my happiest when I create which can be a painting or a sculpture or even a poem. It is a world away from autistic clients and structure and regime. Being creative is about being spontaneous, being alive, being reflective and sharing that with other fellow creative people. But the idea of living without a secure sense of self seems to push me into a mild panic and strangely I feel guilty for not doing the "right thing"!!!

And yes Steve I have listened to the Podcast on fear!

Being creative is maybe accepting that sometimes you will get knock backs, that sometimes you will make mistakes but then that's the joy of it. You become alive with the process instead of becoming a compliant machine.

[MWT]

Originally Posted by Baltar

I think one of the problems people have with Steve's articles is that the articles aren't really meant as a "catch-all". In other words they're not right for everyone. BUT, I do think that in general what Steve says should resonate with a large portion of the visitors to his site.

Wow. I'm really glad I've never had anything to do with corporate cubicleland.

You might want to consider that there are a lot of jobs out there that don't involve cubicles. I have two of them. I'm happy in both, and they are both very rewarding. In general, I don't relate to that article at all.

[eternomi]

I don't see anything wrong with having a job so long as you are doing it consciously. There are certain things that are harder to do on your own. Blogging and speaking can be done at home without much investment. On the other hand, if your desire is to work on cutting edge technology (particle accelerator in the basement anyone?), it might actually be easier to do it working for a company making use of their resources. In fact, it might be smarter to work for one to get experience, and then try doing it on your own. Not all companies are evil either.

[Isis Kali]

This is my favorite article. It threatens a lot of people, but it makes them think. People are too danged complacent these days.

[Dating Specialist]

Originally Posted by eastcoastgirl

My mother got the ball rolling by deciding for me, but then, apparently, I took over. For a long time, I didn't take any responsibility for what was happening to me. I thought it was just dumb luck. At some point, I had to acknowledge that I was making it happen with the choices I made and with hard work.

Hey Eastcoastgirl, yeah it's about taking responsibility for whatever we do and for our choices we make in life.

In my opinion, whether or not to get a job is not so much concern as to what kind of mindset do you have? An Employer or Employee mindset.

Employees who have the Employer mindset takes responsibilities, proactive in creating opportunites, take up leadership roles and always finding ways to be more efficient, productive and creating value for the company and for themselves. Although technically they are paid for a job, but in their minds they are operating as if that is their business.

Just a switch in mindset does makes a whole hell of difference in what one stand to gain and learn and experience!

Conversely, even if you start out your own business but with an Employee mindset, I don't think this person will learn more than an employee with an Employer mindset.

Of course, there are indeed some advantages to being an entrepreneur as there are risks.

If everyone starts being their own bosses, where do we find employees to fill in the gaps? That's why Steve's approach for this article is simply perfect as it's basically geared towards certain group of people who may have this nagging thought of wanting to strike it out on their own but have been procrastinating due to too much uncontrolled fear.

[eastcoastgirl]

Originally Posted by Dating Specialist

Employees who have the Employer mindset takes responsibilities, proactive in creating opportunites, take up leadership roles and always finding ways to be more efficient, productive and creating value for the company and for themselves. Although technically they are paid for a job, but in their minds they are operating as if that is their business.

I never thought of it that way, but I think you're right. Thanks.

[oriental_express]

Before reading this reading this article I kinda knew in the first place that I didnt ever want to work for anyone. I hate the thought of having to answer to anyone. This article has made my decisions more concrete then ever.
I know that after when I finish university I will work for someone but thats only because I need money but will also spend time developing my internet empire.

This article is more or less aimed at those that are in dead end jobs , the rat race, jobs that cant go any higher, for people that work because thats the only thing they know. More of an eye open to someone that works for money instead of making money work for them.

No way would this article say that being a doctor is truely income for dummies.
Someone need to be it and one day you might rely on him/her.

One last thing, this article only works because we rely on other people that work. Imagine if everyone took Steves advice not that it would ever happen.

[furgig]

I love this article, but I don't get it. If I don't have a job, how am I going to get any income?

[Fallen]

Hi! I've never written in a forum before but I thought this article was amazing and I think Steve Pavlina is a GENIOUS (although I've only read a dozen of his articles so far). I know that may seem extreme but this article truly articulates so many things I've been trying to articulate myself for years. I'm only 21, I'm from Canada and my family is lower-middle class so I've been working since I was 15. After 3 years at my public high school I was fed up with how pointless it all was. I got good grades so I got into a private high school in New York (scholarship/financial aid) and now I've finished 2 years at Amherst College in Mass.. I kept switching schools searching for something better, something satisfying or something worth while and now I'm on voluntary leave from Amherst trying to figure out what to do next. College only leads to a job and I just can't think of a job that could make me happy. Yes, I want money, but the only reason I want money is so that can have the freedom to not have to work. I just want to be able to pay my bills and buy food, nothing else important to my life costs any money.
Everything Steve wrote in that article seems perfectly logical to me, I wish I could send it to my friends and family to help them understand what's "wrong" with me right now. Everyone who knows me thinks I'm "depressed" and maybe I am but that's only a symptom of what's really wrong. I DON'T KNOW WHAT TO DO! I'm certain I can do anything but I can't force myself to do what I don't want to do, I can't trick myself into believing that trading 8 hours of my time, energy and thought is worth 50 or 60 (cnd) bucks! That's only less than a tenth of my rent.
The past couple days, I've started to really believe that what I want to do is start a website. It's incredibly overwhelming though, I've been reading a lot and playing around with blogs and other stuff but I could really use some advice or guidance. I am very serious about this, I've always wanted to help people, I'm half done a sociology degree and I think I have a amazing variety of life experience to share or use. I'm sorry this might have run on too long...

[Freefinger]

I just found this site and think it's good to get these discussions going.

I also found that eastcoastgirl did in fact raise some good points about the article.

I'm also a Gov Employee (Canada), but I'm just starting out, only got little more than 5 years now, so I'll respond thru my eyes.

So here's my go at it:

1. Income for dummies. “Why is getting a job so dumb? Because you only get paid when you’re working.” I'll give this one to eastcoastgirl, 'cause she did nail it. We get sick leave, vacation time, 1 day for personnal reason, 1 day of Volunteer work, Leave with income averaging (salary is lowered for one year but you get 5 weeks of extra vacation up to 3 months - Depens what you can afford to lose on the pay check), and many more that compensate for money not coming in while at home.

2. Limited experience. “You might think it’s important to get a job to gain experience. A job only gives you experience at that job….” I started out as an HR Assistant, within 5 years I help a group to develop and look out for Data Integrity for our Human Resources System. That HR Assistant job gave me the experience I needed to proceed upwards and try out new things.

3. "Lifelong domestication" I think the previous generations my feel like that. But it's only because the Managers once gave someone a job and kept them in place for 20 + years. Now the Gov employees seem to move from one position to another every 2 to 5 years. Times change.

4. "Too many mouths to feed. Taxes" - That one I will give you, but at the same time, anyone who earns a living pays. Only the ones who have a business get lots of deductions. But as far as I can tell, if they only claimed what they were suppose to claim, they would be paying like everyone else. Cheating on Taxes appens way more in Businesses than your average joe. Am I mad at them? Well Owners do give people a job and a salary, so I guess it's kind of a give and take situation. So no. They decided to take risks, they can take it, I'll just pay what is due.

5. "Way too risky." This one is true for anyone who work outside the Gov. We have (had) a great employer in the Tech industry, employed thousands of people, then one day the "tech crash" came in. A friend of mine who had decline a Gov job (paid 65K) had accepted a job with them about a year before (they paid 120k + bonus), he asked is manager about the situation and got the "don't worry response", so he went ahead with the purchase of a house. Three weeks after he took ownership of the house, he got the pink slip and about 1 month salary. If you work for the Gov, you'll get paid less, but you'll also have the benefit of more job safety.

6. "Begging for money" I never begged for money, I never over spent either. If you respect the amount coming in and the amount going out, you won't have to beg. Why the 50 inch tv if you have problems paying the morgage? Why the nice speakers in the car (which to this day I'll never understand teens today wanting to lose their hearing by the age of 30) if you can't fill up the frige with food? You make your choice by spending less than what you have coming in, this way when a rainy day comes around, you'll have money aside to help out.


7. "An inbred social life" Gotta go with eastcoast girl, I think people who do have this "inbred social life" are the ones who live away from friends and family. Who else are they going to go out or do something with? Since I grew up in the Ottawa region, I stayed here, lots to do always have friends near by. I don't go out with the co-workers, I think it's better to keep it at a business level. I'm not saying I would refuse to go out once or twice in a year but regularly hang out? Nah.. Not for me. I still hang out with friends from grade 1 and high school, and being 33 now says alot about our lasting friendships.

8. "Loss of freedom" this one I don't understand for the most part. Ok, people with businesses can do something else during the day once in a while, but all my friends who have businesses (succesfull businesses) have to always compensate one day or another for any time they took off. They live, breath, sleep and eat thinking about what's next on their list. Yes they do have money, but I don't call that freedom. While I come home at 5 and that's it 'till next morning and my weekends are dedicated entirely to my family.

10. "Becoming a coward" Depends on the people but most companies today have Unions and they help those who don't dare to fight.

Just my thoughts!

[Freefinger]

As far as Sites goes. Use Dreamweaver to build, use 1&1 Internet Inc. - Web Hosting Services and Domain Name Registration to get a .com and server for just 60-70$/year, and try things, search the net for tutorials on how to do your own stuff. Pics and background use Photoshop or some other substitute for it, they're on the web. Originality is your key, but easy access is a must, think of it as a 3 click maximum to get somewhere on your site.

Now for more serious thought on what you posted... Dude...

Originally Posted by Fallen

...I'm only 21, I'm from Canada and my family is lower-middle class so I've been working since I was 15. ...and I just can't think of a job that could make me happy. Yes, I want money, but the only reason I want money is so that can have the freedom to not have to work. I just want to be able to pay my bills and buy food, nothing else important to my life costs any money.... Everyone who knows me thinks I'm "depressed" and maybe I am but that's only a symptom of what's really wrong. ... my time, energy and thought is worth 50 or 60 (cnd) bucks! That's only less than a tenth of my rent. ...I'm half done a sociology degree and I think I have a amazing variety of life experience to share or use.

Hey Fallen - First off you're 21, stop wondering about what people think of you and start thinking that your life just started. You want money to pay for freedom, yet you're a student. Finish school (Believe me, I'm only 33 and I wish I had stuck in there to finish University because now I understand) then think about tomorrow and what you need to do.

If nothing else is important now, then plan ahead, being the father of two kids now (ages 2 and newborn) I can sincerely tell you that putting money aside will one day serve more than just buying a new cool car (not saying that you want that great new car, just saying what people want today is luxury before actual needs).

You're depressed, big deal, you're 21 and it's normal, I've been there. All I can say is that you're in a place right now that's between being the teenager that has all the fun in the world with friends, and the adulthood of having life's responsibilities. Everything is kinda fuzzy... Hang in there, and you'll be fine. If you have washed out friends who harass people and treat people like ************ get rid of them, 'cause it'll come back to haunt you one day. We got rid of a friend who was getting into being an ass with people, I meet people today and they say that he got some of his new friends in trouble when he shoplifted. Happy it wasn't one of us.

Saying your time is worth 50 or 60 is wrong. Don't think like that, maybe you'll find that perfect job but maybe you'll have to work on it too, starting at 30k. I did it and today I'm in the 60K bracket so I worked at it. If that's only a tenth of your rent you need a new place to live that will accommodate your budget. Heck, get roommates. I have a friend who paid of his mortgage in 7 1/2 years and he was your age when he bought the house. He got 3 friends in, he built a room downstairs for himself so they had the "good rooms" while he was paying off the money to the bank. Easy, whatever the cost of the mortgage is put it in a account, then charge a decent rent to your friends without having them pay the actual rent prices in your town but enough to cover the monthly payments plus extra (that you put in the account). Once your term comes around you'll have enough to get rid of a huge amount and thus reducing your payment years by more than 3/4 of the time. You just need to set priorities, it's normal we all go thru it.

As far as having an amazing variety of life experiences at 21? You have some life experiences, but if you haven't traveled parts of the world with limited amount of money in your pocket, you've only experienced what most people do. By the time I was 25 I had lived in New Orleans for 3 months, traveled to Europe (like most other young travelers) Tahiti, China, and Australia. I still don't see myself as myself having an amazing variety of life experience because of those travels. Did this with a limited amount of money and Camped out, worked on farms or stayed at youth hostels. I played with Peter Gabriel's musicians, met Daniel Lanois and played with some bands like Midnight Oil after shows or while traveling in some un-renown tourist countries. Once I was back I was ready to start my "normal" life.

You need to finish school, and then work out what you want to do. Whatever I wrote up there is not to diminish you, I just want you to understand that life does happen, and it will it you one day, just start preparing now. We all go thru a "depression" phase, your came at 21, mine 18 (Mind you I never contemplated suicide or anything hard like that). It's all about what you set yourself up for. Think ahead, your folks love you, so do your friends, just make sure they know that you also care about them. You'll see that your visions of things will get better. You're 21. Wait 'till you hit 30 now that's something!

At this point in my life, I have two great kids and a wife that gave my life new meaning with those two kids. We all go thru phases, you'll get thru yours, and you sound like one of the good ones. Just a little confused, don’t worry so much. Take care!