Juice Feasting - Day 23 (Blog)

[Developer]

To me, Juice Feasting/Fasting looks like an unhealthy diet promoted by quacks.

Unhealthy, because it makes you sick.
Quacks, because of the nonsense excuses used to justify the ill effects.

[rjani]

I think you should probably go for a 30+ a few days more, and decide then. As you said, the first few weeks are the hardest, maybe you'll see it more clearly when you made it through the first month.

Btw, this disconnectedness reminded me of your article about eating or not eating when meeting someone.

Maybe you should just find a few other activities where you can spend your time with your family.

[klokkasju]

Steve,

I think it was you who wrote an excellent blog post a few days ago about the illogicality of always connecting social events and bonding experiences with eating. So, if you feel disconnected from your family while eating, try to find other situations to bond. Playing board-games for instance is less connected to eating solid foods than having breakfast together
I know that in families often the meals are the only and/or most important shared times. But, honestly, why? Could it be that (on a lower level) even in families eating is kind of an "alibi connection method"?

And for the case of preparing solid foods for your kids. Think of it as the act of changing their diapers (back when they were younger). You definitely won't have changed diapers for yourself back then, or? But since they couldn't do it on their own, you were the one to act.

Or if you had broken your leg and wore a cast(plaster? gypsum?). Then for a short time period you couldn't jump on a trampoline. But it would be only this short healing period you had to abstain. After that you can go back jumping with your kids. And that's what juice feasting is, or? It's a short healing period. You don't intend to never eat solid food again, or?

klokkasju

[MasterD]

Originally Posted by Developer

To me, Juice Feasting/Fasting looks like an unhealthy diet promoted by quacks.

Unhealthy, because it makes you sick.
Quacks, because of the nonsense excuses used to justify the ill effects.

It's not a diet, it's a protocol you do for a while.

I do, however, am pretty sure that you can have extreme positive effects. Not because it is so special, but just because you give the digestive system a rest and therefore the body can devote more energy to healing. That's why fasting works. That's why the hippocrates diet works. That's why calorie restriction works. That's why people get well on SAD when other important factors for health get in their favour. Etc..

[munish]

14 days gone.

Feeling great as on today.-)

[munish]

Actually i am thinking of continuing Juice feast beyond 92 days.

[pey]

Hi Steve,

I think you are violating the principle of Love as mentioned in your book since you are feeling disconnected and not feeling good about it. So I think it's time to stop.

Peter

[Jasper]

Heya Steve,

I haven't read all the posts in this thread, so forgive me if my post is just a repeat of things that have been said before.

That being said, to the question "what would you do", my answer is this:

I'm nowhere near the level of discipline and will power that you show in all the things that you do. So for me, this question is one I cannot honestly answer. The biggest thing I've done so far, is a 30-day-trial of being a vegetarian. That was difficult, to say the least, but your inspiration helped me through the last part of it. Also the knowledge that it's temporary and only 30 days max, made it doable. I would have never done this if it wasn't for your posts about it. I also doubt I would've ever done it longer than 30 days, let alone 92.

So, looking at this fest thing, I can only say, I would never be able to do this. But that's why I love your site, you inspire and show what people can do. Now that does not mean to me, that you have an obligation to your audience. I think one of the cool things about you is that you are a great free thinker, that follows his own path. And you are also someone who believes in following their heart/feelings, instead of living up to other people's expectations.

So, if I can give you some advice, then, it would be: Do what feels right. Finishing this fest, just to finish it, isn't what you are about, I think. You inspire me, because you go deep where most people don't, and show us the beauty underneath. Now if you find in this experiment, that it isn't as beautiful as you would expect or want, than that's cool too. You are about personal development and sometimes that means discovering what is NOT for you.

I think I'd rather have you write inspirational about stuff you love, than about you grinding it out, digging deeper and deeper within to do something that you really don't feel like doing. Also, what would you do if you didn't have this blog? Just in case you forgot, you own this blog, not the other way around .

Good luck whatever you do, and just know that you'll have my respect and admiration, no matter what you decide.

[Developer]

Originally Posted by MasterD

It's not a diet, it's a protocol you do for a while.

I think if you look up 'diet' and 'protocol' in a dictionary, you'll find 'diet' is the more accurate description.

[Tobias Zimpel]

Steve,

of course I can't tell you what to do, but I think there's something to learn out of this experience so far.

Maybe it is to find new ways to connect to your family members except though shared food. I also believe that you should and could attend family meals in some way without eating the same things your loved ones do (you did while eating raw, didn't you?). And you already wrote about usine a shared meal as a way to connect with people to be something common, but no "natural law", so to say. Can you as a family find new ways to share your life with each other?

Maybe it is that you are too much out of sync and should stop - not only I did recognize that your posts lost more and more of the passion they used to express - although "Share Your Shame" did make a good point

Since you can't stop the feast with a snap of your fingers, I say you might at least continue another week to end the first 30 days, and then decide.

And I say you should discuss this thing with your family, since this is something that influences all of you. Are Erin and the kids feeling the same? Are there ways to solve the problems other than breaking the feast? Get out of your cave, and get a life *d&r*

Decide well...

Tobias

[Warasa]

I have been reading your post for a big while. This is the first time I post on the forum. I admire you.

Reading about Juice fasting reminds me of one paragraph you have written in your 30-day raw trial day 29. It was stuck in my head.

"I had an interesting conversation with Erin about an idea for a different kind of dietary trial — eating all my favorite foods, regardless of nutritional considerations. In other words I’d eat like I was in a lucid dream and could conjure up whatever foods I wanted. For me this would be some variation of the vegan diet, since I don’t look upon non-vegan items as food anyway, not even in my dreams. I’m curious what would happen if I stopped looking to food as a source of health and aimed to simply create health from within, regardless of what I ate."

That's what I thought this entire time. Why does your health and well-being have to depend on what you eat? (And your health is already vibrant. I guess everyone agrees on that.) If you do this merely as an exercise for willpower, why don't you put this willpower into non-food activities? Why does food have to be such a big part in your life and identity?

I could imagine an orthorexic or anorexic might have the same kind of feeling -- feeling proud of their fanatical eating routine, the benefit they got from their diets, and their self-discipline (even though most of them are full of fears and negative thoughts, but you aren't.) What would draw a line between obsessive dieters and someone like you?

[patrickq]

Steve, you're amazing, if anyone has the strength to persevere with something it must be you.

My first thought was wondering whether your family feel disconnected from you, or if they can feel your sense of disconnection.

I'm sure they are supportive, but maybe that's because they respect you and the decisions you make in your life, not because they agree with you continuing. I'd guess you will have discussed this with them, but if you haven't, why not work out what you should do with them, I'm sure it would give you the strength to stop or continue, as a family, not just you undertaking something alone.

I believe there are other more harmonious ways to achieve physical/spiritual benefits than by juice-feasting. It suits some people, but by no means all, the trick is discovering one's own best way, if it's not your way, then why waste any more time with it, just move on to what is more important in your life.

I'll say I have a slight bias here, in that I'm not overly inclined towards the use of supplements (especially hyped up things like MSM etc) under the guise of it being a way to health, juice-feasting is complex and as you seem to have found not particularly inspiring to undertake.

A quick request for 'intuitive guidance' might be a good idea, if you know you can trust the answer.

[Cat Dancer]

Your original reasons (reading your first blog post) for doing the juice feast was that you believed it would give you a massive detoxification and because people's experiences with it sounded fascinating. Do you still think these are true, and worthwhile goals?

A key problem you've run into is that right now you find it too painful to sit with your family while they eat solid food, or to prepare solid food for your kids... would that be an accurate summary?

Do you think this is permanent or temporary? Would be practical for you to get to the point of enjoying a meal with your family, where they were eating solid food and you were drinking juice?

[Ganesh]

Hi Steve,
I have been reading your blog for a long long time and i have a fair idea of what you have done thus far. Therefore, reading your day 23 blog entry was a little suprising because i never thought you would say that. My immediate response was 'dont give up'. I discussed it with my wife and she promptly said 'i think he should quit if he feels disconnected from his family' So as a family we are 50-50. But like many others suggested you could maybe tune it down to a lesser number of days and stop say like just before Christmas (wanted to say Thanksgiving but realised it was round the corner ). I feel your feeling of disconnect could get exacerbated during Thanksgiving and Christmas and it could affect your family's spirits as well. All the best in whatever you do...i am keenly watching

[happymomof2]

Hi Steve,

I, too, think you should make it a 30 experience, if that. In the larger picture, what is important in life? Sticking with the juice feast or experiencing the connection with people you care about and love in life?

We live each day one day at a time. Every moment is important. Why make each day so unpleasant for not only you but also your loved ones?

Perhaps the next few days will be eye-opening, but if they are not, and you do not feel a big positive change, I think you need to reassess why exactly you are continuing this experiment--which is what it is--an experiment?

If you had been experiencing amazingly new developments in your clarity, insight, etc., continuation may be worthwhile, but rather it sounds as if you are becoming enervated. I haven't read anything during this trial that makes it appear better than the raw-food diet.

I am curious about one thing: if one of your children were undertaking this experiment, how would you counsel them? What behavior would you like to model for them in this situation?

Kudos for sticking it out this long and sharing your experiences with us.

[Erin Pavlina]

I'll weigh in a little publicly since people are probably wondering what I think.

First, I would never tell him to continue or stop because he has to make the decision on his own.

Second, I and the kids will be in Los Angeles for Thanksgiving weekend and as of this moment Steve has no plans to join us no matter what he's eating.

Third, I was surprised when he told me he was considering quitting. He seemed to be doing well, but I did notice that making the juice was taking a lot of time out of his day, he's more tired than usual, and the detox is challenging for me and the kids because he is way more grumpy, surly, and emotional.

I would love if we all sat down to a family meal but it's a rarity in our house. That's something we're working on, and after Steve is done juice feasting I think we'll be able to find a way to all eat together happily.

I haven't felt disconnected from Steve. We spend a lot of time doing things together other then eating. He plays with the kids and they just love it when he plays video games with them, wrestles them around on the floor, or plays board games.

I've seen benefits from the juice feasting that seem very positive so I'd love to see him continue to see what else will happen. On the other hand, if he wanted to stop, i would enjoy eating as a family. We're working on bringing more raw foods into the kids' diets, and mine too for that matter. We're all enjoying banana/spinach shakes now, thanks to Steve's experimenting. And last night I even drank some leftover juice concoction that had beets in it (something you could never get me to drink before). And last night after drinking it I settled into bed and some weird things were going on in my belly. I think I woke up the beet receptor which has lain dormant since I was 9 months old.

I really appreciate all the support, advice, and feedback you guys give to Steve. It means a lot to me to know you all care about his welfare

[Anna Conlan]

I voted 'it's time to stop', just because that's what I'd do in your position. I don't continue with something when my heart's no longer in it, but I'm sure something good will come of it whatever you choose.

I've heard that 11:11 is like a confirmation of whatever you've just chosen to do; it means you're on the right track.

[Adrienne]

Steve, i support whatever choice you choose to make because i know you will make what you feel is the best choice.

Here are some words for thought..

you talked about a couple articles ago, about how attached people were to connecting over food. There are alot of ways to connect with your kids that have nothing to do with food.
I used to sit down alot with my cousins over a meal, but when i went vegan, they would eat all sorts of stuff i did not want to be around durning the transition. SO i stopped eating with them as much.
I found by missing meal times with them, i got to be around to do more fun stuff with them watching the stars, or snuggling together and reading a book. I had never really thought about it before i read that blog post of yours. If you are missing connection, there are other ways to get it besides thru food.

to keep what you are doing in perspective, i keep relating it to exercise. We live in a country where at least 90 percent of people agree that exercise is good for you. Maybe they dont agree on what type or how or how often, but the general consensus is that exercise is good for you.
Imagine that was flipped and that 90 percent of people thought it was bad for you, and everyone tried to be as sedentary as possible. People would have all sorts of reasons why it is bad. Perhaps the only people who move around alot die younger because they are manual workers who die of malnutrition. Or maybe, when a sedentary person starts to move around, they get chest pain and maybe even a heart attack or their blood pressure shoots up and they get a headache or stoke or an aneurysm. All things that would lead for many people to continue and even prove to themselves that exercise is bad even deadly.
If all the sudden, you did a 92 day trail of daily exercise and you had lived most of your life connecting with people via board games or video games or whatever. It would take time to build connections with people who play basketball and connect with them or whatever.
Also, you would be uncomfortable for weeks (depending on how out shape you are) or months or years as you try to exercise.
People might also look at you like you are crazy, and hurting yourself. There are due to be some rough spots as your body adjust. Some feelings of disconnect when you can no longer do what you once did to connect. Some frustration that every thing is new and that it takes so much time during the day. Maybe even stop wanting to do it unless you figure out how to make it work for you (yoga, running, team sports, solo sports, etc)

anyway, how is your knee doing? still feeling better? have you gotten to go back to running more?

Have you been spending time in nature? I know when i feel very disconnected, i need to spend more time in nature. i remember you mentioning once that when you feel disconnected nature helps you as well. what about taking a hike with the kids?

on one of the posts you mentioned, that each day on a juice feast takes your body back 120 days. well at day 23 you are at 7.5 years. This is way before your blog. Is what you are going thru now mirroring the disconnect frustrated state you felt that long ago?

my personal opinion is that with all the positive results people get from being on the 92 day juice feast and the potential benefits, why not stick it out? This is what i would do. But i cant say what is right for Steve.
If i stopped at 23 days or 30 days or whatever, i would end up doing it again because i would wonder what if???

Adrienne

[JonasWilkey]

Steve,

I feel that you should give it a couple more days and if these feelings do not subside, then consider calling it quits. I think that you and many others would agree that this does not suggest failure by any measure.

Since beginning to read your blog just 10 days ago, I began a juice fast-feast of my own and am currently in the 5th day. I came across your blog as I was madly reading everything I could to find recipes, techniques, etc. I have completed two separate 3 day juice fasts in the past, and am now treading in foreign waters, but feel great. I just wanted to thank you for your blog as it serves as a quasi-guide, although I know that every person and every situation is different. I have put no limit on the time that I will juice and I find some comfort in that.

From everything that I have read, you have gone long enough in your feast to experience healing effects and a major detox, so unless you are suffering from some undisclosed illness, then to push this thing uncomfortably any further makes no sense to me.

Still, give it a few more days and concentrate on other things (yeah right).

Good luck and I hope this helps?

Jonas

[carenkh]

You might question further why it doesn't feel right to prepare food for your kids right now. "Not feeling right" is really vague.

It would be beneficial, too, to examine your thoughts around eating and connection with The Four Questions.

I'm surprised you won't eat with your family because it's unpleasant for you to watch them eat... you are choosing this diet, it seems like you could also choose to overlook the unpleasantness in order to connect with your family. Again - lots of thoughts to look at there, an opportunity to really clear out some old ways of thinking and believing.

I second the idea to hire someone to come make juices - why subject yourself to this tedious chore if you don't have to? I know you said making them yourself is part of the challenge. I'm also guessing you may be thinking lots of people who would try the juice feast might not choose to use their resources to pay someone to make juices for them, so your experience wouldn't extrapolate to very many people - but this is YOUR experiment! If you can, I say go for it. Think of what a sweet temporary job that would be for someone!

[Artistgirl]

Hi Steve,
From what you're saying I would stop. As to what your feeling only you can be the judge. Check with your intuition and listen to your heart. If you need to ask the question, you already know the answer.
Happiness whatever you choose,
Debbie A.K.A Artistgirl

[Sivar]

Steve, your update (day 24) really made me laugh because I know that kind of anger . I'm sure that - in a few days - you'll find it amusing, too. Look at it from a bird's perspective and imagine some human freaking out like that for no apparent reason *g*.

[PCRobinson]

Steve,

First time posting, just joined today.
Please forgive me if this posting doesn't supply something completely new, but here it goes.

I am going to respond to your request for a more objective point of view-- rather than provide you a simple 'yes/no' answer.

Here's the reason why- you are a pioneer and inquisitive spirit.

You're in a position to explore something that has come up as a symptom, which can be delved into and truly understood...It's appeared before, in other experiments-- however, you may not have fully reached into the depths of self-discovery it presented to you.

The exploration I speak of concerns itself with your feeling of disconnection. Most particularly, family-based disconnection. Note your previous response to this feeling, and how it affected your decisions to move away from the activity that brought about the trigger.
But, keep in mind-- that is merely the symptom.

By your own self-stated mission, when a challenge presents itself, you tend to like to delve into it.
Here, my dear sir-- is a challenge worthy of your considerable talents!!

What is the source of these feelings?
What other situations, perhaps in your [distant] past, have also triggered this feeling...
Do you fully understand and choose them?

I would hope that my words, while challenging in themselves- are not confrontational to you-- you have a keen mind and analytical lens....and, from an observers point of view-- I see something that your abilities can do something with...

You have a choice to make- regarding feeling disconnected (perhaps alienated?)--- in the past you, by way of example, addressed the symptom with a change in behavior, wile staying true to the original experiment (eating raw food along side the family)...
However, the opportunity is still there....the opportunity to really know this feeling, understand where it comes from and then choose it in a more powerful way...

I believe this is the deeper level of effect you are seeking from this Juice Feasting experiment...you've moved past your previous levels of knowing-- you're now, again, in unexplored territory...


This is the place where you shine best...

Then decide if you need to continue....
But, know that doing so, will most likely produce even deeper levels than this one..

You've upped your game, with yourself....
Show us what you learn---
It will benefit us all.

[Lauxa]

I voted for "keep going" even though there's no way I would do that.

But for you it's different. You've made your reputation (partly) by using yourself as a human lab experiment, and the documentation and sharing of your experiences helps to inform and educate thousands of people. Your continual willingness to experiment and push through the resistence keeps your website fresh and attractive.

So while I certainly wouldn't think any less of you if you quit, I think you should keep going for as long as you can.

[cnwoods]

I agree with a few people here, that it would still be a great accomplishment to do 30 days, but from the sound of what you're writing it's a good chance you'd regret giving it up early.

Still, you didn't go raw the first time you trialled. How about giving yourself a Christmas present and doing 46 days - giving yourself enough time to transition back for a raw christmas at least.

Growing up as the only vegetarian in a family of meat eaters, and now in a relationship with another one, I know exactly what you're feeling. It's going to be enough of a challenge doing a Christmas staying raw, I think, without adding juice feasting into it. You might want to make it a family decision.

I reckon the full version of this trial would be perfectly suited to over 'Lent' - there's an acceptance that it's a period people will be depriving themselves in some way, so the isolation might not be so bad then...

Crystal
www.crystalsquest.com

[Patricia07]

I was inspired to start my own Juice feast when I read about in your blog. I checked out all your links and registered on David Rain's website for 30 days. I am a vegetarian, and had been thinking of going vegan. The juice feast sounded the right way to start me off.

I started by telling myself I would do 7 days first, and evaluate how I felt at the end of it before decided to stop or to go on. Well I did 10 days in total, during which time I experienced physical and emotional detox (headaches, sniffles, aches, crying bouts). It went away after about 6 days, and I felt fine from the 7th day onwards. However the whole thing started to pall on me. Like you the juices started to look and taste really bad, and each time I would prepare juice, surrounded by vegetables and fruits in various stages of undress and freshness (pulp, peel, semi-compost...) I started to be slightly nauseated by the smell and imagined myself to be in some sort of primitive jungle dripping in primal vegetal ooze...

So I decided to stop. But I lost 8 lbs (hopefully both toxic waste and fat!) and learned a lot of things about myself, and juice preparation, and fruits and veg, and how to do an enema I feel like I'm on the right path to a healthier vegan diet with a high ratio of raw food. Also I think this is a protocol that I can use again in the future when I need it. So no regrets: a lot of experience gained and extra pounds lost.

We each need to listen to our own minds and bodies.

Thanks, Steve, for inspiring me to the juice feast. Good luck with your own journey!

[Fullcrum]

Steve -

I think you've realized that most of your bonding with your family occurred around food. Maybe it's time to find other ways to bond.

I highly recommend you pick up a traditional martial art, like jiu-jitsu or something. It would help you in more ways than you know.

[rjani]

Originally Posted by Erin Pavlina

He plays with the kids and they just love it when he plays video games with them

never even imagined Steve as playing video games

Kinda funny, beating kids in Tekken 5 then writing an article about oneness

(I guess they don't play such games, it's just the picture that first popped into my mind...)

[Claradonna]

probably the best advice is NOT to seek advice from forum members

You should really have your mechanism of decision making internal and top-down,
and if you have outside input, from a select group of professionals who are working closely with you.

Generally, for such personal decisions as this, you should not ask for 'mass' input, or many of lower quality, rather than your intuition and high quality advice.

Be a teacher and leader, rather than a guinea pig for the masses!!

[MasterD]

Originally Posted by Fullcrum

I highly recommend you pick up a traditional martial art, like jiu-jitsu or something.

Which one do you do? What's the benefit?