Juice Feasting - Day 23 (Blog)

[jkmuller]

Hey Steve, it's been great to follow your juice feast. Your public experimentation has certainly improved my diet over the past year or so.

There are lots of way to look at this, but I think those criteria for ending a juice feast are certainly pointing you in the right direction. If your heart is not in it, I can't imagine that what you gain will be better than what you'll lose. You've gained experience in juicing and the difficulty of the trial will renew your appreciation for raw foods.

Certainly it must be hard to end something before your predetermined stopping point, but it may be the most honest thing to do. What you're experiencing is not matching your expectations, and given that you should end it when you feel comfortable.

Really, there are decent arguments on either side, but I think it all comes down to what makes you happy, and whether you're willing to hold out for what may be better days ahead. In that sense, it's like deciding whether or not to end a relationship. How can you know whether this is just a low point in the feast/relationship? Maybe a cutoff date would help, say in three days you'll stop if things don't improve. Best of luck!

[spazgirl]

I agree with those who suggest that you find other ways to connect with those you love. One of my favorite posts you've written since you've been doing the juice feast was the one from Day 14 in which you discussed socializing without food. I realize that the sentiments you expressed were geared towards meeting new people and forming new connections, and that maintaining connections with family is somewhat different from what you were describing. But I still believe that not partaking in a few family meals, even big important holiday ones, can be balanced out in other ways.

You mentioned the tedium of preparing the juices. Why not go to a juice bar or hire someone to come to your house to prepare your juice for you until this feeling passes? You might just need to be pampered a bit, and perhaps allowing someone to prepare your juicy meals for you might alleviate some of the negative emotions that are surrounding this experience for you right now. Sometimes food tastes better when it's made by someone else - maybe you'll see the same effect with juice!

[Dan Morelle]

Hi Steve,

Thanks for asking.

You don't sound like your heart is in it in this last post.

If you want my permission to call it off then you have it. Its cool, your still 10 feet tall if you call it a day.

If you want encouragement you've got that too. I understand the stamina you need to get this far - I went 18 months without even juice passing my lips. It was an apparent necessity at the time to keep me alive. If you do want to carry on perhaps there are a few things you can do to make it more tolerable. I discovered ways to satisfy my mind with food without eating. I drew pictures of food, designed recipes and wrote menu's of the things I wanted to eat when my fast ended. I also prepared food for my family - simple dishes decorated elaborately. I began to enjoy food by proxy. I attained a new level of appreciation for food.

I don't like being disconnected from my family, eating is a ritual. I'd try and a way to participate. If I wanted to carry on I'd find a way. If I didn't want to carry on, I'd find a way also.

If you do decide to eat solids you'll know as soon as that food enters your mouth whether it was the right decision or not.

Best wishes,

Dan

[Dan.Linehan]

When I see 11:11 it's almost invariably a hat tip saying, "Don't worry, you're on the right track."

[A.K.Light]

I say keep going, at least for a while longer, and use your genius-mind to think of other fun, silly, or creative ways to connect with your family. Can you freeze your juice and eat it with a fork? Buy a banana shaped cup and pretend like you're eating a banana? Make everybody laugh about how strange the experiment is? Pretend that you're in a bizarre situation and make a fun game out of it? It's imagination time!

Your feelings are important, but you have the power to change them by looking at things differently. It might be worth a shot at least. Regardless, it's been a great run, and I know you'll do the right thing for you.

[detrohutt]

Some things to consider(some previously posted):

You may only receive 10%(arbitrary number) of the benefits from the juice feast in the first month, who knows what you may miss from the other stages(especially after the liver cleanse, etc)...

This may be a great opportunity to learn new ways to connect with your family

Potentially many(thousands?) people who may derive more benefit from juice feasting(people that are currently very unhealthy) may be dissuaded from juice feasting - "if Steve Pavlina couldn't even handle it, then how in the world could I???"

You set out to reach "a whole new level" in your life, permanently. You may find yourself wondering if you missed out on that level later on, if you stopped now.

You may have come further than you think, mentally. You may return to eating raw only to find that you seem to feel a bit mentally "fuzzy" or something, compared to how you've been feeling lately with your "slight gains"

Thanksgiving and Christmas do only come once a year, but they also come EVERY year. Besides you'll still have your Thanksgiving "Feast"

It may be helpful to go back and read some of your earlier posts about juice feasting for yourself to see if they reignite any of the passion for juice feasting you were feeling when you wrote them

....Obviously, I'd like to see you continue, but ultimately, follow your intuition. And go with the flow. If you're heading in the direction of the greatest good, the universe should come to your assistance.

Good luck, peace, and clarity...

[Zasta]

Hi Steve,

I have recently been introduced to raw foods though an online teleseminar given by Dr. Adiel Tel-Oren and I am very satisfied with all the precious information that is given away on this series.

In a lecture about processed food, he mentions something about the DETOX. According to him, you shouldn't feel bad when you go through a detox process or at least, not increasingly worst after you adapted to the process itself. He is mentioning a risk of protein cross-linking in the brain. Something that is irreversible.

I invite you to download the file and listen to it at around 1:23:30 to 1:25:40

He talks about meat cooking for a little while but he mentions interesting facts about detox that you may find valuable.

I am not preaching for him at all here. I just instantly thought of you when listening to this part because the way you write these past days, you don't sound like someone going towards any health improvements. I certainly admire your discipline, yet, I don't think that too much of it will get you in a better shape.

I'm sure you're smart enough to listen to your body and do what is best for you.

There is a saying that says: "Whatever it Takes!" I don't bow to this one. I choose "Whatever is best in the present moment".

I hope that information can help you in your decision.

[TheAndySan]

Originally Posted by Steve Pavlina

Just checked the poll results, and it's 11 for and 11 against. 11-11 rears its head again, but what does it mean?

I've been getting some email feedback on this too, and the results there are split about 50-50 as well.

I should mention that it will take me 6 days to progressively break the juice feast, regardless of whether I stop now or at Day 92. This is to ease my body back into solid foods and avoid getting sick from an abrupt transition.

I should also mention that I can do the liver and parasite cleanses after a juice feast if necessary. They can be done at other times. They might be more effective as part of a juice feast though.

My default decision is that I'm going to keep going unless I gain sufficient clarity to say that stopping is really the best choice for me. If I continue to feel ambivalent like I do now, I'll keep pressing on.

I really appreciate all the feedback. It certainly gives me a lot of angles to consider.

I'm so glad, Steve!

I totally agree with the others in finding new and creative ways to connect with your family and in consuming the juices as well.

I may be wrong on this, but I don't recall that you wrote about doing any activities since you started the juice feast. Like I said before, go on a walk, ride a bike, go to the gym, do something physical and/or out of the normal routine.

[Elfwing]

I sent in an email, and I was disappointed to see that the option to "wait and see" wasn't on the poll. But yes, that's what I recommended.

[The Cloud]

It seems to me that this feeling of disconnection is an issue in and of itself, one that could be dealt with on a deeper level than just eating a diet similar to the people around you. Disconnecting from people didn't stop you from going vegetarian, vegan, or raw, even though each one represents another degree of separation from the majority of people. You yourself said that socializing can actually be improved when there isn't a meal in the way on day 14. Perhaps you could use this as an opportunity to connect with your family on a deeper level than what you put in your mouth. I think that this feeling of loss is probably more important than the juice-feasting itself at this point, and shouldn't be ignored by simply returning to your usual routine.

[dennisgorelik]

Make it 30 days and if you are still in the same (or worse) state of mind -- stop it.

If before 30 days are over you feel serious physical problems -- stop immediately.

If you reach 30 days and feel good -- you may continue even further.

[Sivar]

Hi Steve,

I'm not really sure what I'd do if I were you, but here are my thoughts... on the one hand you already lived a very healthy life including your raw-vegan diet before you started this experiment, so maybe your expectations about improvement and detox were greater than what you've experienced. It's like cleaning up a house that's already in pretty good shape. The satisfaction isn't as big as if it were dirty and messy, because there's barely a noticable before-and-after-effect. I'd like to suggest that positive results like improvement of health and a more focused mind come alot more subtle than you expected.

On the other hand there's that disconnection from your family in addition to a lower energy-level than usual because of your doubts about your individual benefits of juice feasting. To me it sounds like this experiment is shaking up some of the fundamental "columns" your happiness and optimism is based on, and there's no logic in self-discipline that disconnects you from love.

Nevertheless, I would tend to continue the juice-feasting for a little while longer. Maybe there's an opportunity here to find other ways to connect to your family - other than sharing meals. I believe you said, you could sit at your desk and work now while drinking a smoothie, so there is the possibility of spending that spare time with your family. I myself barely share any meals with my family, but there's plenty of time to sit and talk while doing nothing else. In some recent article you even found a conversation without eating to be much more intense and less superficial as opposed to everyone "hiding" behind his/her plate.

Furthermore, there's always the option to quit a week before Christmas, so you would be able to get used to eating solid food during that week and share the Christmas-meal with your family. After about 2 months it's reasonable to assume that you have developed a sense for subtle physical and phycological shifts - if there are any in your case -, and your urge to challenge your self-discipline would be satisfied, too ;-)

Good luck, and all the best!

[liamland]

Steve,

I can't believe there are so many people telling you to continue with this. I'm not concerned about whether or not you're getting adequate nutrition. What I'd be concerned about is that you're missing unrecoverable time with your family.

Strange synchronicity right now... I'm listening to the song 'Time' by Chantal Kreviazuk and she's singing:

'I should have known better...
I shouldn't have wasted those days
And afternoons and mornings
I threw them all away"

STOP and go enjoy a meal with your family.

Much love,
Liam.

[Imajenfly]

I look to you as the "superman" of self discipline. I have very weak self discipline muscles. What I read your post, I see some of the head talk that goes through my head every day. I think you are aware of this too, which is why you are giving yourself a couple more days to think about it. It is the familiar duel of the head vs. the heart mind talk. Your head tells you your heart isn't in it, but your heart is what is keeping you from breaking the feast. The head has very powerful strategies to get what it wants. I am reminded of this every time I try to go a day without eating sugar or when I am running.

When I am running and I feel tired, I can come up with the best reasons to stop. I use the body excuse all the time. I feel aches and pains and I think, "my body is telling me to stop", but is it? Or is it my head? I keep going and when I cross the finish line, I do not think about how I wished I quit 5 minutes early, but how pleased I am that I finished. If I had stopped, I would have repeatedly thought about how I could have of kept going.

I eat the SAD. I have fear of going raw but at the same time I can not help but wonder about those health benefits. So I am still drawn to this diet despite my fears. I see you as the man who can walk through burning coals. I have fear of fire, but watching you do it, it brings me a step closer to doing it myself. There are thousands of people who are watching you and hoping maybe one day they could do the same.

You are very inspiring, Steve. If you do decide to end this early, we will only see you as human with the same challenges we face in accomplishing our goals. We will just relate to you and support you even more.

Hey, even Superman has his Kryptonite.

Take Care,
Jenny
(Hey, you just inspired a long time lurker to write her first post.)

[Trezker]

I see lots of people saying 30 days. That's what I came to say too, just one week to go.
But you could start that 6 day transition right now too, then you'll end up landing at the 30 day mark...

[Dimond]

Steve-from everything I know about who you are, I believe you should continue for as long as you can-whether another few weeks or longer if possible. I think you will end up greatly benefiting from this. Though if it becomes really too extremely tough (even more so) after trying various things, such as connecting in different ways with your family, then of course do what you feel is best. I think later you'll end up trying it again. Next time before or after the major holidays.

I disagree about it being easier as a single person. This is what has prevented me from doing any type of fast for more than a day or two. Having some type of emotional support/connection is crucial. While I've been able to make certain things work without it, fasting is pretty much impossible. At least so far.

Either way, be very proud of your juice feast accomplishment.

[mikestopcontinues]

Steve, I signed up for the forums today, after years of reading your blog, just to tell you: Continue.

Clearly, this juice feast has been a challenge for you. It's been apparent to everyone who reads your blog here that you've been being dragged through the muck physically, emotionally, and I dare say spiritually over the course of the last 23 days. That can't have felt very good.

But I'd wager you do feel good knowing that you'll never have to feel the way you did in these past 23 days ever again, don't you? By virtue of the determination that you've shown time and time again, you've made it this far--which is pretty far, I might add--and in doing so, you have inadvertently created a situation whereby your upward motion has revealed new heights that you've yet to conceive, and it's now time to aspire to them.

There's something that the great ones say: "The further you go, the further you can go" but what they don't tell you is "the further you go, the harder it is to turn back."

Sure, you had probably thought of quitting the juice feast every day for 23 days, but what if you were to envision a 24th or 25th day, in which you thought only of success? Can you feel, right now, the strength of knowing that where you once had ambivalence, you now have drive? And can you imagine the 92nd day, where you can look back on 60+ days where you felt exponentially increasing levels of bliss in everything positive more positively more vibrantly more? I think that you could look back on today as the day that you really got into the groove...

See, you're building a tower every day, and every day, lifting further and further out of the gravity well we live in. You're lucky, because you're tower is higher than many others, and you're even luckier because you have the responsibility of leading those below you.

I'll bet you can imagine a time where you had thoughts of giving up, where driving forward yielded results far greater than you had even dreamed. And when you look at the bright prospects of those times, it can allow you to see this juice feast in fully saturated colors, as the new opportunity you know it is, as a chance to find a focused new path through the ambivalence that used to make you so ambivalent, which now only makes you so potent, so energetic, and so much more able to soar.

I know that you feel good right now, because you can experience so deeply the vibrancy you're made of that with each passing breath you can realize what you had perceived as an emotional roller coaster yesterday was only something that used to be attached to you, and now you are more perfectly yourself than ever before.

You got yourself here, so you sure as everything can get yourself there.

[ruchirkc]

I don't know why you think that there are only 2 options: quit now or continue till 92 days. Take it a day at a time, it might just be that you're about have a significant breakthrough. And as some of people here said, first convert it into a 30 day trial and when that's over, then you can think whether or not to continue.

And who says you either quit now or do till 92 days? Do till 40, 60, whatever...

[Eduardo César]

I have read some of the posts, and I can't really see if its time to call off or not.

But I have been thinking about this experiment through the lens of subjetive reality lately. It seens that Steve have improved his diet in the past by going vegetarian, vegan and subsequently raw over time, but he did this (i presume) coming from an objetive standpoint. He expected his diet to improve by agreeing with the reasons that would make it work and, thus, experiencing the effects of his expectations. Now, perhaps he expect this to be hard to do (he did even said that), and, well... things ARE hard.

Steve, I think its really up to you if its time to end the experiment. It would be great if you see to the end, but if your relationship with your family are suffering or you health is not so good, you can end and later you can do again, just like you did with the raw foods.

Best regards
Eduardo

[dendennz]

I agree with Eduardo: it's time to give this a rest.

Steve, I love your blog with a passion but your posts are getting more maudlin each day. I admit I've become complacent and used to you being thought provoking and uplifting each day but I'm not getting that. I'm selfish: this is entirely all about me and what I get out of it

So if I feel kinda sad reading your posts, I can't for a minute imagine how hard it is for you. You have proved to us that it's really tough. I don't see the health benefits of it for doing it for this period of time. I just DON'T get it. Call me a dumb Kiwi but I can't see it Raw food eating, yes, vegetarianism, yes, veganism, yes. This stuff? uh uh. I could SWEAR that in some of the posts you've done in the last couple of weeks that you've got some kind of allergy to Watermelon because you kept getting weird bowel issues whenever you detailed having had a watermelon juice of some kind. Who knows.

Anyway: you have given really good reasons for giving up on it: your family means a lot to you and I'd hate feeling disconnected like that. Speak to them all and see what the have to say too.

Arohanui,

Jenny.

[Dynamis]

Congratulations on making it this far, Steve!
I actually just stopped on day 6 of a 7 day water fast BradyCahoon.com and I would say that the most important thing is to listen to your intuition. It's great to ask for advice but perhaps 11:11 just means it's really your choice to make and either option has equal benefits. Perhaps 11:11 is a signal to you of the subjective reality that you're creating, and you have control of the outcome and it really doesn't make a difference either way other than which decision will make you the happiest.
As far as my personal opinion, I would say that it is a worthy goal, and as far as I can see has nothing but positive benefits as far as physical health is concerned. And socially - read your post on deeper social interactions again! Also, if you aren't drinking your juice at the same time your family is eating, just go sit and chat with them at the table anyway.
It would be so valuable to the world to have such a detailed report of the juice feast in matters of psychology as well as physiology. It would be something you could look back on with satisfaction. It would be one more thing to add to your 'have done' list (even though that's mostly ego, haha).
I say definitely yes! Definitely keep going if you can, but I completely support you and congratulate you whichever way you decide to go.
Love,
Brady

[Victor Vikingr]

I think you should keep going for at least one more week.

Remember, the polyphasic sleep lasted almost twice as long as this!

[Dev]

I feel Steve, you should ask Erin for an honest answer. Your better half can give you a better answer.
Also I suggest that Erin make the juices for you for the next few days. I also suggest you try out a totally different type of fruit/ vegetable for your juices. One which you have not had all these days.
I have voted 'Not sure' in the polls. But I sincerely think that you should pull it for a few more days.

[hawkal]

keep at it Steve, just keep hitting the rock! Don't you feel intrigued by the affects of a full 92 day juice feast? What about the affects on your mental clarity, your weight loss, the fact that your cleaning your cells of toxins that will set you up for a very healthy future. I think that it can only get better but you'll never know if you don't keep going at it.

[borisg]

you are in unchartered territory for yourself...see where it goes...we don't have the marbles...so do it for us.

Any changes in your psychic abilities?

[inverse Paranoid]

Reading this reminds me a lot of the last few paragraphs of Day 19 of your Raw Foods trial.

The social issue is also beginning to wear on me a little. I don’t eat out much, so that isn’t a big deal, but I can’t really eat with my family at home. With the three of them being on a cooked vegan diet, it’s hard for me to sit with them while they’re eating. It’s not a self-discipline issue per se. It would take a force of nature to get me to eat something cooked before day 31. But I find the sights and smells of cooked food confusing to my senses while I’m eating all raw. For some reason it greatly disturbs me.

This experiment has raised my awareness of something else as well. There’s a part of me that’s questioning whether I’m taking the notion of optimizing my diet too far. Health is obviously more than just food intake, and I’m concerned I’m giving too much of my power to something outside myself. Is it possible I’m somehow creating a more and more restrictive diet for myself as part of a process of discovering a more important lesson? That would be congruent with the subjective reality interpretation of this experiment. One way to grow is to honor your expectations, which is basically what I’m doing with this experiment. But another way to grow is to change your expectations. When it comes to diet, I’ve always used the former approach, but I’m starting to get curious about what would happen if I began testing the latter approach.

I can’t recall the source, but I remember reading an eye-witness story about a yogi (at least I think it was a yogi) who swallowed a whole bunch of mind-altering pills that would have normally been fatal — or at least caused a severe reaction — and they apparently had no effect on him whatsoever. He did it intentionally too, probably as a demonstration that he was in control of the effect of whatever he ingested. I don’t know if that story is true, but the very notion is a challenging one to consider. Is it possible that the best way of eating is to stop assuming that food has any power over us except that which we give it via our beliefs?

I hope that doesn’t come off like I’m lamely trying to justify a return to cooked food. I’m just sharing the honest realizations I’m having along the way. Make of it what you will.

It seems like you may have reached a tipping point where the temporary negatives seem to outweigh the potentially permanent positives. This knocks you out of congruency with pressing on and leads you to begin adopting empowering perspectives that support returning to the way things were before.

What if you broadened your perspective on this to encompass the collateral benefits? When's the last time you felt this disconnected? What potential benefits could you get from experiencing this disconnect? Just as the temporary experience of poverty can permanently increase your capacity for abundance; emotional upheaval will only further ground your capacity for balance.

I say, don't suck it up, dive in. Allow yourself to experience the emotional storm even from the perspective of total aloneness. If you really want to reach that "next level" you may have to embrace going through intense growth spurts where you can't even tell if you're headed in the right direction.

As you've shared before, whenever you grow in one direction other parts of your life will naturally atrophy. It's natural to become dispassionate when you shed big chunks of what you once thought of as yourself. The benefits of letting go are largely found in what you acquire anew, not in the creation of the void itself.

In your book you stated (paraphrasing here) that there were several times that you and Erin were on the verge of breaking up, but every time that led to having very open conversations that brought even greater depth and intimacy in your relationship.

Enjoy the contrast. Let it feel so bad that it feels good, and eventually it will lead you into even greater internal dialogue.


The better compromise solution would be to simply hire someone to do all the juicing and clean up for you. I think forcing yourself through 60-90 minutes a day of tedium is a poor use of self-discipline. On Day 7 you stated that all the juicing and cleanup was part of the challenge, and that "for now" you didn't want to hire someone to do that for you. But from a self-discipline standpoint you have little to gain by forcing yourself to accomplish something you know you can do whether you prove it or not.

Reduce the opportunity cost of continuing; develop or adopt more empowering mindsets to view your growing disconnect as a positive; and enjoy the ride.

The bottom line is that you're a creative enough guy to love either decision you make (and regret either as well). So, all things being equal, would you rather love the experience of pressing on? Or love returning to solid foods?

As the saying goes, "Make a decision...then make it the right decision." Either way, you've already won.

[RRR]

ha.. bizarre. 11:11 is a metaphor for the reflective nature of existance, and it shows a polarized binary option of 11:11 turned on or 00:00 turned off. Or 01:10, 01:01, 10:10, 11:10, 00:11, 11:00... scrambled polarities. I'm not math geeky enough to pull out a great binary example, I just felt compelled to share that.

My thoughts on quitting are still to not. If you need a quicker way to juice, find a quicker way. If you feel disconnected, find a way to connect.

The problems seem so exaggeratedly awful, its just juice. Its not the juice's fault Or is it? Don't forget that eating is fun too. food isn't just flavor, its texture, its consistancy, even the way it digests in non-juice form is enjoyable. Maybe drinking a bunch of juice isn't as much fun as savoring blueberries or a bite out of a ripe mango..

I remember feeling really odd at dinner tables when I was water fasting. It got to the point around day 6 where I had the feeling that eating was a bizarre behavior, and I couldn't quite remember what it felt like or why anyone would do it. The seperation from the act of eating is a noteworthy sacrifice. Maybe find a way to enhance your juice? Instead of 4 batches, don't you get tired of that? How about smaller amounts of different flavors? Interesting flavors? Have you exhausted the realmn of flavor options? Stop worrying about the quantity of juice and put more into really enjoying it.

[MasterD]

Sometimes when this happens to me on a raw diet I find myself incredible inspired again to continue after a few days. It does, however, strongly relate to what I am doing. When I am interacting with a lot of people that share many meals together, it becomes a lot harder, because it takes extra effort to feel connected. However, usually sometime later I get in touch with my true purpose again and then I realize it isn't worth to give up my diet and that I am in totally different direction anyway.

But this juice feast, if you don't experience huge benefits after 30 days in comparison to a raw diet, I would not continue.

I am becoming much more aware of all kind of other factors that affect my health and diet is just a tiny portion. If you feel disconnected for another 60 days, it's just not worth continuing, even in terms of health.

[Miro]

Just commit to one more week to see if anything changes and to make the 30 days complete.

[PeaceCat]

Hi Steve,

I guess this thread has been concluded now but I have a couple of thoughts:

As you were eating a raw diet beforehand, you probably wouldn't need as much time on a juice feast as someone on a regular diet, in terms of detoxing. I think a 30 day trial should be enough for someone who is already very healthy.

If I were you I'd go back to eating raw, getting the best of both worlds - a clean, healthy diet and being able to participate in family meals and other social eating. I think social eating (especially with family) is just as important for nourishing the spirit as it is for nourishing the body.

Just another 2c added to the mix, I'm sure you'll make the right decision in the end though.

Live long & prosper