Share Your Shame (Blog)

[Dev]

Steve it looks like with the opening of this thread, Pandora is turning in her grave.

[dancer]

Originally Posted by newmark

Dinc, sometimes some desires should be repressed at any cost to oneself.

Recently I heard of a man seeking phychiatric help because he could not control his sexual attraction to children. Can you imagine the courage this took?

Repressing such desires, at any cost, to oneself does not help or encourage these people to take responsibility nor to seek help. I understand this is not what you meant, however, I wonder if change could be made if we fostered something different than hate and condemnation. It's a stretch, however, if someone told me they were harbouring such desires, I hope I could get by disgust and hate to find compassion to support them in seeking help.

[bluedragon]

If answering only to MYSELF, I'm not ashamed of anything I have done - I find the idea of being ashamed of oneself utterly impossible to grasp (although I understand it perfectly from the social point of view). But what I am afraid of is the reaction of others - violence, despising, because if I told them, just by hearing the words they would not understand. There is only one thing I'm ashamed of in this manner, and I do not feel comfortable enough to write it here at this time.
Maybe- just maybe, one of the reasons sharing your shame with others is not really about authenticity is that some people aren't smart enough to understand you. Because of their own issues, some people may understand totally different things than the ones you are saying about yourself. What's the point of comunicating if the other cannot understand you? And even worse - if you KNOW what the other will understand if you say something and you go ahead and say it - that thing is what you are actually communicating - not the truth in your heart.
For example, if you have done something that people label as "evil", and you tell someone who doesn't understand, what you're actually saying is not
"I've done this and I'm ashamed of it - I invite you to be as open to me as I am to you"
but
"I want you to know that I've done what only an evil man would do (in your opinion)" because you know that HE believes only evil men would do that and he is not yet able see beyond that.
If you really care about him, then first take the time to teach him why normal people could do that too, and only when you are sure he understands and accepts it, tell him you are one of those people. Otherwise, you deprive him of his closest source of enlightment on that topic - YOU - and you invite him to reject you from their life and to continue to live in denial.
Or maybe this whole logic is just my way of justifying my own denial.

[Elfwing]

Originally Posted by pterodactyl

However, your excursions of late into all this spiritualism, extreme diet stuff and now this insistence that others follow your path or they are following the wrong path are difficult for me to embrace.

I agree, even though my beliefs are quite similar to Steve's.

And - thanks to the person who recommended EFT to me!

[Savage]

Here's an awesome example of sharing your shame in public and making peace with your past - 10-minute video by Lori Painter:
Inspire 2 Act: Making Peas (Peace) with the Past

Child abuse, shoplifting, exotic dancing, and more...

If you watch this, please drop her an encouraging comment.

[dali]

AWesome indeed, Steve. Have dropped her a comment. BRILLIANT!!

[Kindred]

I don't know what is about what you wrote Steve, you've written about authenticity before, but my whole paradigm has shifted.

I've been introverted and reserved for the longest time. I've had trouble communicating with people simply because I didn't want to be rejected by them for who I am or who I was.

For instance, a few years ago I was part of an organized password stealing group. We'd trick people into giving us their passwords and then completely nuke their accounts, as well as any of their other accounts that used the same password. The group grew and grew, until we were brute-force cracking password hashes from large website databases. I had no motive. I was just an extremely miserable kid.

A few months after that, I started talking to someone on forum quite often. He was a good guy, and we were extremely like-minded and with similar interests. However, somehow the topic came up about how he had all his passwords stolen along with some of his friends--particularly, at the same time I targeted those very sites. I just completely stopped talking to him. I couldn't get over myself and say, "Sorry, I was one of the people who messed up all your accounts."

Even today I'm still not being completely authentic with people. I've always felt a huge barrier between me and other people, and now I understand why.

Thanks for the post Steve. I've got a lot of work to do.

[RRR]

Watching that video was certainly interesting. The amount of turmoil and shame she has inside over life events I don't consider particularly shameful. Certainly she made some bad choices, but there is nothing worth condeming.

I have a question for you Steve. What should be done about Shame that can not be shared without punishment? What about the arsonists, rapists, murderers, child abusers, drug users, shoplifters etc. The internet isn't a perjury free zone, how can these people share their shame without incriminating themselves and getting abused by our modern system?

[ssandra]

Originally Posted by Steve Pavlina

Why hide this info from your employer? Why try to work somewhere where you have to hide a part of yourself every day you go to work?

I do not believe that you can be the same person at your job, as you can be at home, as you can be with your friends etc.

That has nothing to do with you being ashamed of anything.

At my job I am a self confident, successful and strong sales and business woman.

With my friends I am a supportive and fun person to be around

With my husband I am his wife and everything that that means to me (be not-strong, submissive and loving).

Even tough some elements may shine through in different areas they are not the main of what I am. And that is ok. I do not have to be only 1 thing. Depending on the situation I can be different and still be myself and be happy with myself.

I am not ashamed of anything. If for whatever reason my boss would find out that I am submissive to my husband.. well.. if he cares, that is his problem. More likely he wouldn't care. If he thinks he can fire me over that or walk all over me after that.. well, since I am at work I am a strong person and I will set him right.

It is healing to "confess" something you feel uncomfortable with. But I also think it will be so much better if you would do it with somebody who is part of that bit of your life, and not to the wrong people.

[Savage]

Originally Posted by ssandra

At my job I am a self confident, successful and strong sales and business woman.

With my friends I am a supportive and fun person to be around

With my husband I am his wife and everything that that means to me (be not-strong, submissive and loving).

What you're describing is a practice that's very common among people with low self-esteem... especially with people who are overweight. I don't know if you're overweight, but it's a self-esteem issue in any event. People with genuinely high self-esteem simply don't live like this.

What would happen if you were submissive and loving at work or confident and strong with your friends and husband?

What do you think would happen if you stopped living in such a fragmented way and began expressing a more holistic personality?

Give those questions a little thought to see where they lead you. Most likely you'll end up facing some fear of rejection.

[newmark]

Originally Posted by Steve Pavlina

Here's an awesome example of sharing your shame in public and making peace with your past - 10-minute video by Lori Painter:
Inspire 2 Act: Making Peas (Peace) with the Past

Child abuse, shoplifting, exotic dancing, and more...

If you watch this, please drop her an encouraging comment.

Why do you think this is awesome? These are personal things that aren't very interesting to anybody else. Why talk about this in public unless there is some direct reason to? Isn't sharing your shame in public just a kind of exhibitionism? Not that that is so bad; just not very interesting.

[Savage]

Originally Posted by newmark

Why do you think this is awesome? These are personal things that aren't very interesting to anybody else. Why talk about this in public unless there is some direct reason to? Isn't sharing your shame in public just a kind of exhibitionism? Not that that is so bad; just not very interesting.

It's awesome because it's an act of courage. Show us your latest act of courage, and you'll be labeled awesome too.

[Plato]

Thanks.

[Marth]

Here are some more things that I'm actually uncomfortable bringing up that I'm also shameful of:
-My poor social skills, especially when first meeting someone
-My monotone voice when talking a lot of the time
-My whole relationship with my parents is shameful :\

Most of my shame comes from social relationships, but I apparently need these to prosper, & friends so I don't go insane. I'm actually ashamed of not fitting in well with the general public, I sometimes assume I don't have a lot in common with someone which isn't right.

[phoenixxx]

OK.

Here's my shame. All of it....

1. I have recently realised that a lot or even all of my relationship issues (platonic, work-related, family, intimite, ALL OF THEM) plus my low self-esteem, anxiety and depression are because I have repressed for many years the fact that I am a lesbian.
I have only just recently ploughed through all the confusion of my feelings to realise this. I repressed it so well that I convinced myself it wasn't true....even though everything just went 'wrong' with guys. I think also I was confused because I thought my need for attention and approval was actually 'attraction' to guys. I'd romanticise the whole thing....flirt with them and make sure they fell for me....then I'd turn around and be a complete ♥♥♥♥♥ to them. I only went out with guys because they asked me...

And I am ashamed that I still haven't accepted this fact and for some reason still feel disgusting...like it's something to truly be ashamed of.

2. I am ashamed of my house....I don't invite people over because of it.

3. I am ashamed that I affect other people with my depression and anxiety.

4. I am ashamed that when I went on exchange overseas I turned into a horrible person and took everything out on my host family and made them sad and stressed because I was jealous of their family.

5. I am ashamed that I treat everyone like an enemy first and I even still treat my friends that way

6. I am ashamed that in early high school I came down with a stomach bug and didn't make it to the toilet in time. I went home 'sick' and have never told anyone since.

7. I am ashamed that I am so cold and closed to other people even though it's my 'insecurities'.

8. I am ashamed of my fears and insecurities and mental blocks and people issues and depression and anxiety and all this **** I want to get past but havent yet!!!!

9. I am ashamed that I treated my brother so badly when we were younger.

10. I am ashamed that I once had a dream when I was about 8 that was in cartoon but was about rape and I was the perpetrator (I've had issues with male sexuality since a very young age.....and am still scared that I may have repressed the memory of something horrible....)




THERE!!!!

I am now ashamed because I feel like this is totally self absorbed andI should be connecting with my workmates instead of being selfish.

x

[rosegold]

Originally Posted by RRR

Watching that video was certainly interesting. The amount of turmoil and shame she has inside over life events I don't consider particularly shameful. Certainly she made some bad choices, but there is nothing worth condeming.

I have a question for you Steve. What should be done about Shame that can not be shared without punishment? What about the arsonists, rapists, murderers, child abusers, drug users, shoplifters etc. The internet isn't a perjury free zone, how can these people share their shame without incriminating themselves and getting abused by our modern system?

Confess to a priest. Mr. Pavlina, have you ever thought of confessing to your uncle, Fr. Pavlina?

[Bliss Sage]

I love this blog post.

I don't really keep or have secrets, but the biggest secret I live with is me, myself, not for lack of sharing who I am, but because people don't see me, or because what they see is not me, because of filters they have or because of the eyes they are looking at me through.

[ssandra]

Originally Posted by Steve Pavlina

What you're describing is a practice that's very common among people with low self-esteem... especially with people who are overweight. I don't know if you're overweight, but it's a self-esteem issue in any event. People with genuinely high self-esteem simply don't live like this.

What would happen if you were submissive and loving at work or confident and strong with your friends and husband?

What do you think would happen if you stopped living in such a fragmented way and began expressing a more holistic personality?

Give those questions a little thought to see where they lead you. Most likely you'll end up facing some fear of rejection.

I do not have a low self esteem. I know I am a great person, and worthy of everything I want from life.

I am not overweight either.

If I was submissive and loving at work I would not be successful at it. I would not reach the targets that I have set myself to accomplish and I would not be happy.

If I was strong with my husband I would not be happy. I do not want to be strong with him, I want to be submissive.

I know that my husband would never reject me, no matter what I would do or say, and other people.. I don't really care if they reject me or not, since if they would, they are not worth my time anyway...

What I am describing (i think) is a practice very common in a lot of people, not (just) people with low self esteem.

I would never want to give up any of this. I like my extremes and I like that I have places where I can be myself, my different selves.

[DeRocky]

Originally Posted by ssandra

I like that I have places where I can be myself, my different selves.

I totally agree with you. What you describe about yourself sounds like the polar opposite of someone with low self-esteem and a "fear of rejection". Actually it seems to me like healthy (and therefore unusual) human behavior.

Someone who insists on maintaining a fixed and inflexible self no matter how the context shifts seems (to me) to be anything but the pinnacle of human authenticity.

By the way, since "authenticity" is a big buzz word I'd like to mention one of my big personal heroes -- Carl Rogers -- who was the very first to introduce authenticity (or 'personal congruence') as a major core condition in psychotherapy, as well as in interpersonal relationships and did the first research on the topic.

Carl Rogers stressed that authenticity is about expressing feelings and thoughts RELEVANT TO THE CURRENT RELATIONSHIP/INTERACTION even when such things make us feel vulnerable.

An authentic person does not necessarily need to tell his employer about his irrelevant sexual desires and shame. That (to me) is completely ridicilous. Instead, one wishes to work somewhere where one's values can be revealed, acknowledged, upheld. One hopes that the enviornment he/she works in will acknowledge and work with releveant feelings ("I feel incompetent about this particular task and need help; I feel anxious about this particular aspect of my relating with my boss") and be conducive to true human relating. Basically, one wants to be allowed to be human and real.

If our lives and relationships are to be vital they are lived in the present moment -- IMMEDIATE EXPERIENCE. Which means that from one situation to the next you may feel, think, and act differently than in another situation -- and that doesn't make you dirty or lacking in self-esteem. Actually, I think it's wonderful. Rather than groping at a static self who demands to be "expressed" in every single situation in a given predetermined fashion -- you're free to be alive and vital in the present situation.

In short, I think this whole idea of "you're not authentic and open unless everyone knows everything about you -- particular the things you don't want them to know" contains only a grain of truth (at best). And forget about weaknesses for a moment -- I think that often sharing our positive feelings about others (and even ourselves!) often takes just as much courage. Telling someone your feelings of kindness, gentleness, fondness, admiration, can often be very risky and difficult too and in most cases it is far more relevant than telling someone the 10 things you hate about yourself.

In fact, ssandra, I was shocked at your most recent message in which you defended your feelings about yourself and affirmed your own experience without appearing to be angry about some fairly undermining comments. I admired that.

[missing]

Originally Posted by RRR

I have a question for you Steve. What should be done about Shame that can not be shared without punishment? What about the arsonists, rapists, murderers, child abusers, drug users, shoplifters etc. The internet isn't a perjury free zone, how can these people share their shame without incriminating themselves and getting abused by our modern system?

good question, although what I really want to know is what if the likely punishment would be undeserved, say because of an unjust law? For example, say a Muslim girl gets raped, and knows she will be stoned to death if anybody finds out. Should she go around telling everybody she was raped so they can brutally murder her? That was the punishment for a 13 year old rape victim in Somalia, according to a recent news story.

yea, kind of an extreme example, but I think it can apply on a lesser level in many people's lives.

[ProjectX]

I have quite a lot of secrets inside.

One of them is that I sometimes wish my father dies soon or gets killed and leaves behind life insurance because I need that money badly. And I wouldn't care if my father died at all.

I hope some of my family relatives die so also I can collect any life insurance and money they leave behind.

Sometimes my hatred for my parents is on borderline passionate.

I want revenge on those who brought me pain in my life. I want them to experience the emotional distress I had to go through because of them or I want them to die an agonizing death.

Sometimes I wish my mom had an abortion when I was in her womb.

[Andreas]

Originally Posted by Steve Pavlina

Here's an awesome example of sharing your shame in public and making peace with your past - 10-minute video by Lori Painter:
Inspire 2 Act: Making Peas (Peace) with the Past

Child abuse, shoplifting, exotic dancing, and more...

If you watch this, please drop her an encouraging comment.

I've twittered about this to spread the word because this was inspiring to me. Instead of simply telling, she is showing the world her own truth.

And in my opinion, there has been too much telling and not enough showing going on lately.

Thanks for the link, Steve.

[missing]

Originally Posted by ProjectX

I have quite a lot of secrets inside.

One of them is that I sometimes wish my father dies soon or gets killed and leaves behind life insurance because I need that money badly. And I wouldn't care if my father died at all.

I hope some of my family relatives die so also I can collect any life insurance and money they leave behind.

Sometimes my hatred for my parents is on borderline passionate.

I want revenge on those who brought me pain in my life. I want them to experience the emotional distress I had to go through because of them or I want them to die an agonizing death.

Sometimes I wish my mom had an abortion when I was in her womb.

Hell yea! That's the main reason I'm pro choice! The hell with "her body, her choice". I want to see as many people spared the misery of this world as possible.

I have similar thoughts however I don't want my parents to die. A big part of that is that if they do I won't have their financial support. Not all of it, but it's a big one. I don't really want revenge on them but I do get pissed that they brought me into this world. Sometimes I think about killing myself after somehow letting them know I hated them. The guilt they'd feel gives me pleasure. It's not really a sustainable feeling though as I feel bad if I think this way too long. But in the case that I killed myself, I'd be dead so who knows. Granted I wouldn't kill myself just to make somebody feel guilty but I see it as a "pot sweetener" towards making the final decision. Like saying; "you screwed me by bringing me into the world for your own selfish reasons, so I'm gonna screw you back by killing myself and make you think you played a part! Haha!"

And to think, I consider that my parents did a decent job compared to the rest of society. I really don't hate them, they are decent people. However, I often hate life and it seems logical to trace that hatred back to the people responsible for giving it to me. I know some people thing "we choose to incarnate" or whatever. That might be true but I've never been presented with any good evidence for that. I'd be open to receiving such but I'm not going to assume it on faith alone.

fun thread!

However, I'm still wondering if anybody has any ideas about the question I proposed a few posts ago.

[CroMagna]

Originally Posted by Steve Pavlina

Here's an awesome example of sharing your shame in public and making peace with your past - 10-minute video by Lori Painter:
Inspire 2 Act: Making Peas (Peace) with the Past

Child abuse, shoplifting, exotic dancing, and more...

If you watch this, please drop her an encouraging comment.

I used to be a stripper. What's wrong with being a stripper? I may go back to it once I lose some weight. It is a very empowering experience for women.

[ssandra]

Originally Posted by DeRocky

In fact, ssandra, I was shocked at your most recent message in which you defended your feelings about yourself and affirmed your own experience without appearing to be angry about some fairly undermining comments. I admired that.

Thank you, that means a lot to me.

[CroMagna]

Project X and missing:

I totally agree. I think having children is completely immoral and that's why I'm pro-abortion. I even started a blog about it: Moral Childfree People talk about how racism is so horrible and how they have to live with inescapable rage and then they have children? Doesn't make sense. Either they're lying about racism or they're completely irresponsible. I know that women are so weak that I would never want daughters to have to live like that. I fight for happiness by living as alone as possible, but it is hard to accomplish. I know the pain I go through everyday. Nothing shows the character of people more than their willingness to have children in spite of the suffering they say they have to undergo. A lot of people just up and get pregnant unplanned, knowing they can't afford to provide their children with a decent life.

[Angela]

CroMagna, I just read your website, and it made me laugh and laugh! Thank you!

Boy, you really believe your thoughts are The Truth, don't you? I would just like to give you a small piece of advice for becoming a more powerful Darkworker: practice letting go of that belief. It will really get in your way as a Darkworker. I think you will find you have much more power and freedom if you do.

Now that I think about it, same goes for Lightworkers.

And the unaligned.

[CroMagna]

Originally Posted by Angela

CroMagna, I just read your website, and it made me laugh and laugh! Thank you!

Boy, you really believe your thoughts are The Truth, don't you? I would just like to give you a small piece of advice for becoming a more powerful Darkworker: practice letting go of that belief. It will really get in your way as a Darkworker. I think you will find you have much more power and freedom if you do.

Now that I think about it, same goes for Lightworkers.

And the unaligned.

of what beliefs?

[Angela]

Originally Posted by CroMagna

of what beliefs?

Of the belief that your thoughts are The Truth.

[Angela]

Originally Posted by CroMagna

of what beliefs?

Of the belief that your thoughts are The Truth.

It occurred to me only after I wrote that message that maybe you don't believe your thoughts are The Truth, and your website is kind of a miracle of Darkworker genius. I can't tell which, which itself indicates you've got a sort of Darkworker genius, so never mind!