Juice Feasting - Day 10 (Blog)

[Savage]

Use this thread to discuss the following entry from Steve Pavlina's blog:

Juice Feasting - Day 10

[Calculusaurus]

You keep referring to the addictive nature of cooked foods, but I don't see why one could presume that the process of heating itself has anything to do with the reward pathways of the brain.

Notice how your cravings are for non-human foods only? That is, foods that were not part of the human diet for 99.5% of our history -- potatoes, bread, grains, cheese. Why don't raw foodists crave steamed spinach?

Grains and dairy are well known to be addictive, as they contain opioid substances that bind to endorphin receptors in the brain.

See:

Going Against the Grain: How ... - Google Book Search

and

Opioids in Common Food Products

Sugar as well is very addictive, as it stimulates several reward centers in the brain:

Sweeter Than Cocaine: Scientific American

I just don't buy the argument that cooked foods are addictive.

[Bamboo Moon]

Keep going Steve! I've been feeling sad today too, but sometimes you just have to keep going. I'd love to hear what you experience.

[cinnabar]

This post, more than any other so far, makes me contemplate trying the juice feast. I'm going through a paradigm shift in my life, just at the verge of a whole new level... but I can feel the foods I eat pulling me down. Slowly switching to raw foods from vegan cooked isn't quite doing the job. I allow myself a little cooked food, and then take a lot. But to be able to turn the clock backwards... to go through the addictions, removing each one from my very cells as I go... incredible!

When you are done, I can very well see you on a plane you didn't even think existed, body heart soul mind... everything.

So, for what it's worth, I would notice...
You are doing much to inspire me to step up in my own life.

[supertom]

some people just cant count

[krackato]

Thanks for doing this experiment Steve. I never would have even heard of juice fasting unless you brought it up and I never would have considered doing it if you hadn't jumped head first into your experiment.

[Fullcrum]

I'm intrigued.

I want to juice feast.

In fact, I intend to. Somehow. The universe will provide the way.

[supertom]

looking into MSM, its sucks how anything new and skeptics are always closed minded about something new

[supertom]

something about MSM feels right for me, and what i need

[ArthurHung]

I really resonated with the part of feeling disturbed and "just being okay" with that feeling.

I’m not sure where this will lead. Right now I’m too immersed in this challenge to see any clear answers. Since I can’t do much about it yet, for now I just have to accept that I’m feeling disturbed and allow that feeling to exist.

I'm trying to get rid of some bad habits myself right now, and simply being able to feel disturbed and allow that feeling to exist is something I haven't been able to... allow... when that extremely uncomfortable sensation of "routine" comes back. For example, feeling the need and acting on not letting a driver who stays in my blind spot for over 15+ seconds continue by speeding up and maintaining or increasing that sped-up speed for the rest of the duration of my trip to wherever it is I need to go in a more aggressive driving manner than at all necessary.

I came home tired after a long day and after doing such an action yet again, ate plain popcorn with salt. As an addict to this kind of popcorn as a "comfort food", I feel a mixture of emotions about this action. Is it something really basic like just doing something good for myself for the sake of that or is it just an addictive habit?

It's a fine line.

I had planned to just meditate, in a way that would help me feel more connected with love, as opposed to "drowning" in my unhappiness with plain popcorn with salt. And this meditation is the thought that I created while "at my most conscious", so this decision would be most aligned with truth, love and power (i.e an intelligent decision).

[eternomi]

Originally Posted by StevePavlina

Lately I’ve been feeling a lot more sympathy for people who suffer from drug addictions. I think almost everyone is an addict in some form

So true!

But, I wonder if it is at all possible to enjoy something without getting attached/addicted to it?!

As you pointed out, you even found a way to enjoy -or at least get used to- the raw food diet which most people can't even begin to imagine living on (mostly for taste reasons). And if it is not the food you are enjoying, you are surely enjoying the benefits of such a diet, which is again an addiction of some kind, but a "good" one of course.

[Dimond]

I don't think it's just about addiction once you're past a certain point, but more about brain washing. Just like with most things in life, we're taught from the time we're born to do things a certain way and to believe certain things. Food is one of those things that is becomes so ingrained in who we are, especially when it comes to relationships and socializing. This is why you can sometimes see an advertisement for something you haven't eaten in years or have no interest in, but find it appealing. You can have strange cravings that seem to come from no where just because at one time you use to eat it. Luckily it usually isn't something that lasts for long. I find myself craving raw food more than anything else. But I still might have some weird craving pop up and then it'll go away. Especially because I'd rather have the raw equivalent of it or something else raw. I'm looking forward to when food will be more something I eat for fuel/survival rather than for enjoyment. I think that will be very freeing and much healthier.

[Dan.Linehan]

Hey Steve -- congrats on your first ten days! Sorry it's been a bit of an emotional roller coaster. {Hugs}

[RRR]

I’m also feeling a bit sad because I’ve carved out some kind of a hole in myself, and I’m not allowing the old filler material to return, but I don’t have anything else to fill that hole either. Living with that void is very unpleasant.

The deeper sorrow carves into your being the more joy you can contain. - Kalil Gibran

You taught me that

Congrats on 10 solid days Steve. I have no doubt you'll do your best.

[MasterD]

This knee pain fix is very interesting.

My mom also got rid of years and years of knee pain by cutting out refined sugar of her diet. Stu Mittleman reports the same in his book "Slow Burn". Where he blamed overtraining, etc.. it was actually the sugar in his diet. I don't remember exactly the theory behind it, but he links certain body parts to certain internal organs; I believe knee pain was a signal of taxed adrenals, might be something interesting to look into. Well, for you, obviously, it is not the sugar, but it might still have been overburdened adrenals that get it a bit easier now.

Further, I can so much identify with the emotional attachment to food and to use it to change your state. I went through weeks of coaching with Dr. Graham where he put me on a mono-banana diet (like Rose is doing right now) for 2 weeks to break the addiction to the stimulation to variety. However, I still managed to eat to many bananas, too often, or too late at night, because the feelings, as you describe, are very disturbing. There is always a way to numb it, even on a raw diet, and even on only bananas.

I would be curious how that would be on a juice feast, I am considering to start it in january next year, but for now it's pretty comfortable to be able to numb the feelings once in a while .

[Hyperchiller]

Your healing is possibly due to the MSM which are systematic enzymes. Viktoras Kulvinskas in the Rawkathon was talking enthusiastically about enzymes - about how their importance will exceed that of physics and chemistry...

I wouldn't be surprised if you were fully healed if you took more doses. Matt Monarch talked about them in his interview too. He says he takes more than the average dosage.

[MasterD]

Originally Posted by Calculusaurus

I just don't buy the argument that cooked foods are addictive.

OK. Go without cooked foods for a month and I think you'll buy the argument.

[Rudolf]

It is great to read about your juice feasting experiences. And yes, I bet that many people would notice if you pulled the blanket of ignorance back over your eyes. Hang on there Steve!

[amites]

An option for dealing with emotional states:

Essential Life Skills of Personal Change and Persuasion

The program is called 3d Mind and it is rather amazing, the premise is simple, reactive behavior occurs in the lower portions of the brain which prevents new thoughts from being established. Using the process you open up the pathways to the frontal lobe, by balancing emotional states...

Personally I have used it to balance emotional trauma from childhood, quitting tobacco, helping others quit tobacco, bringing myself out of a scummy mood, etc...

They have a demonstration of curing someone of an elevator phobia on that page, and attending one of their seminars I've watched them help people pull off amazing changes, such as a fear of dogs, social interaction, etc...

If you have any questions please email me, or ask on their site there are a number of others with more experience than myself, and I saw it mentioned that they were starting an affiliate program though I have not signed up... yet...

[amyor]

Originally Posted by Calculusaurus

You keep referring to the addictive nature of cooked foods, but I don't see why one could presume that the process of heating itself has anything to do with the reward pathways of the brain.

Notice how your cravings are for non-human foods only? That is, foods that were not part of the human diet for 99.5% of our history -- potatoes, bread, grains, cheese. Why don't raw foodists crave steamed spinach?

I can definitely help you out with this one.

YouTube - Rozalind Gruben - "Social and Emotional Aspects of Eating"p1Rozalind Gruben Lecture

And Hugs to Steve too!

[mercuryrising]

Lately I’ve been feeling a lot more sympathy for people who suffer from drug addictions. I think almost everyone is an addict in some form (meaning that they turn to substances to alter their emotional state), but most people get by on legal drugs and don’t have to hide it so much.

Not that I can tell you what you are feeling, but isn't that empathy not sympathy? Perhaps you could consider the difference between those two words.

I know that's how recovering addicts get through. We see that the void you are trying to fill is the same as mine and it brings us closer. And I don't mean it in a sugary sweet sort of way. That doesn't keep people alive "one day at a time".

I know that you care about others and you help as many as you can. I appreciate your insight on many topics, including this one. But (here it comes), I get the impression that you think you are better than the rest of us. You're better because you are healthier or smarter or richer or more spiritual or whatever. In terms of burying the pain, an ego isn't much better than a cheeseburger.

You know what I think that void is? It's that separation we feel between each other. That's why we want to fill it with something. Regain that connection. But it's whatever we are trying to fill it with that creates the separation.

As I'm writing this, I keep wanting to get up and go smoke a cigarette. It's that fear coming up because I'm saying something you might not want to hear. Maybe you'll ban me from your forum or something.

But I'm not giving in for the moment and I can see what it is I'm running from. Something tells me that if we switched places, you wouldn't hesitate to tell me what you think. Particularly if you thought it would help me.

Good luck with the juice, man.

[munish]

I started juice feasting today.91 days to go...

Energy gain is definitly visible on day 1 itself.

Plus there are alot of insights by steve that are helpful.

That how drugs like-
Such foods include cacao, large amounts of nuts, high-fat meals, and certain dehydrated foods.

Thanks.

[BalancedExistence]

Some time ago I realized everything that interacts with our mind/body complex should be treated as if it were are drug. Whatever we drink, breath, eat and take in through our skin impacts upon our physical selves and our mental state of being. Even the people we spend time with. They all condition us. They are the cause and the way we are is the effect.

I also second Calculusaurus in that I fail to see how heating food has anything to do with addiction. It only feels that way because you intellectually do not want to consume it but your body physically does. That is hardly addiction. Keep going and it will pass. Not to say it wont come back though. The human body is wonderful at adjusting itself.

[RRR]

Rozalind Gruben: Social and Emotional Aspects of Eating

I'm really enjoying this video

Thank you for posting it amyor

[Holistic Star]

Hi Steve,

I'm not surprised you feel sad at the moment. When I read that you were doing coffee enemas I knew you would be bring up so old emotions. They are very cleansing.

I don't know how it works, but every time I've done a coffee enema I've been overwhelmed with emotion. However on the positive side, letting that emotion out and run through you is very healing and you don't need to deal with that particular thing again.

good luck

[Monique7nuns]

The healing effects of this supplement are accredited to "is a naturally-occuring form of dietary sulfur found in fresh raw foods that are involved in the cycle of rain".

Sounds a little sketchy. Egg yolks are high in naturally occurring sulfur. I wonder if it is the source of mystery sulfur in MSM.

[Calculusaurus]

Originally Posted by MasterD

OK. Go without cooked foods for a month and I think you'll buy the argument.

You didn't read my post or the links in my post.

My challenge to you is to go a month without cooked foods, then a month with the addition of steamed vegetables. Will the steamed vegetables satiate your craving for cooked foods?

I don't know, but it's unlikely.

I'm not convinced it's the process of heating, per se, that affects the reward pathways of the brain. It's possible, perhaps. But the cravings are more likely the direct result of grains, dairy, sugar, and perhaps other processed items.

Like I said, grains, dairy, and sugar have well-known addictive effects. Grains and dairy both contains exorphins, which cause narcotic-like addiction. Sugary and starchy foods also have a large effect on the reward centers of the brain.

There's nothing wrong with saying cooked foods are addicting. Since grains and dairy are part of the cooked foods group, the statement isn't exactly wrong. But it's misleading, as it suggests the process of heating itself is the sole explanation behind the addiction, which doesn't seem to be the case at all.

[MasterD]

Originally Posted by Calculusaurus

You didn't read my post or the links in my post.

My challenge to you is to go a month without cooked foods, then a month with the addition of steamed vegetables. Will the steamed vegetables satiate your craving for cooked foods?

I don't know, but it's unlikely.

I'm not convinced it's the process of heating, per se, that affects the reward pathways of the brain. It's possible, perhaps. But the cravings are more likely the direct result of grains, dairy, sugar, and perhaps other processed items.

Like I said, grains, dairy, and sugar have well-known addictive effects. Grains and dairy both contains exorphins, which cause narcotic-like addiction. Sugary and starchy foods also have a large effect on the reward centers of the brain.

There's nothing wrong with saying cooked foods are addicting. Since grains and dairy are part of the cooked foods group, the statement isn't exactly wrong. But it's misleading, as it suggests the process of heating itself is the sole explanation behind the addiction, which doesn't seem to be the case at all.

You are right, I didn't read your entire argument.

However, if I am raw for a while and then drink a bunch of pasteurized orange juice I definitely feel the difference in comparison to freshly pressed orange juice. I get out of touch with my body and into an addictive state, so in my experience there is a difference. I don't know if this is true for the whole spectrum of foods, probably not and there are probably a lot of other causes that make 'cooked' foods addictive. Following your argument, there may be an added substance to the pasteurized orange juice that cause the addictive effect.

[mercuryrising]

Originally Posted by BalancedExistence

Some time ago I realized everything that interacts with our mind/body complex should be treated as if it were are drug. Whatever we drink, breath, eat and take in through our skin impacts upon our physical selves and our mental state of being. Even the people we spend time with. They all condition us. They are the cause and the way we are is the effect.

You reminded me of Thich Nhat Han's Fifth Mindfulness Training:

The Fifth Training: Aware of the suffering caused by unmindful consumption, I vow to cultivate good health, both physical and mental, for myself, my family, and my society by practicing mindful eating, drinking and consuming. I vow to ingest only items that preserve peace, well being, and joy in my body, in my consciousness, and in the collective body and consciousness of my family and society. I am determined not to use alcohol or any other intoxicant or to ingest foods or other items that contain toxins, such as certain TV programs, magazines, books, films and conversations. I am aware that to damage my body and my consciousness with these poisons is to betray my ancestors, my parents, my society and future generations. I will work to transform violence, fear, anger and confusion in myself and in society by practicing a diet for myself and for society. I understand that a proper diet is crucial for self transformation and the transformation of society.

[Dan.Linehan]

All this pee talk reminds me of The Stadium Pal.