Juice Feasting (Blog)

[Savage]

Use this thread to discuss the following entry from Steve Pavlina's blog:

Juice Feasting

[Fullcrum]

Besides all the other stuff you're covering, I'd be curious as to how much more you spend on food (w/ and w/out supplements) per week than on your previous raw diet.

I'd also be curious as to how that compares with the vegan diets the rest of your family eats.

[Scorpio]

Whenever I read about cleanses and detoxifying and toxins my first thought is always:

"What toxins exactly? Mercury? Weird plastic compounds? Strange food additives?" It's always undefined.

I also think things like:

-How do these toxins first get into our body?

-Why haven't they been filtered out by the kidney, liver, spleen, and cellular clean up processes?

-What's the mechanism by which cleanses remove the toxins?

-Can you measure these toxin levels?

-After doing something to supposedly reduce the toxin levels, is there any way you can measure the drop in toxin levels Before and After.

-Have there been rigorous scientific studies on detoxifying, or just anecdotal stories of "Oh, I felt so much better after my cleanse!"

It seems like people just throw the term toxins around and take it for granted they build up and need to be cleaned out...

Basically, it seems scientifically questionable. And this isn't some impossible to disprove thing like
"energy" or psychic powers, we're talking about bodily processes.

P.S. A good chunk of the bulk in bowel movements is intestinal bacteria.

[Savage]

Originally Posted by Scorpio

Whenever I read about cleanses and detoxifying and toxins my first thought is always, "What toxins exactly? Mercury? Weird plastic compounds? Strange food additives?"

I also think things like:

-How do these toxins first get into our body?

-Why haven't they been filtered out by the kidney, liver, spleen, and cellular clean up processes?

-What's the mechanism by which cleanses remove the toxins?

-Can you measure these toxin levels?

-After doing something to supposedly reduce the toxin levels, is there any way you can measure the drop in toxin levels Before and After.

-Have there been rigorous scientific studies on detoxifying, or just anecdotal stories of "Oh, I felt so much better after my cleanse!"

It seems like people just throw the term toxins around and take it for granted they build up and need to be cleaned out...

I had similar questions and did a lot of reading to find answers. I have a membership to juicefeasting.com, and there's an absolutely enormous volume of info there for starters. You really have to dive into this yourself because I can't answer these questions in any reasonable depth in a forum post. For starters I can't be sure if you're asking from a place of genuine curiosity or because you're looking to dismiss the whole thing out of hand without seriously considering it. (People often ask me questions about this from one perspective or the other. Some truly want more information; some just want to reject whatever makes them feel uncomfortable.)

However, the simple answer is that your organs of elimination like the liver and kidneys get clogged and overloaded, so the other cells and organs end up storing toxins to pick up the slack. This gradually degrades your performance -- mentally, physically, and emotionally.

Can you see the results of a detox? Yes, quite often it's very visible.

When you do a liver cleanse, for instance, you can see stones come out of you (composable largely of bile salts and cholesterol). Or try a colon cleanse program, and you'll see lots of gunk and mucus come pouring out. Or do a parasite cleanse, and you'll see parasites floating in the toilet. Do a Google image search if you want to look at some of the pics. Just don't be eating while you do it.

When Erin and I switched from vegetarian to vegan diets in 1997, we each lost 7 lbs during the first week (no calorie restriction) because our intestines were finally able to release years of dairy clog. It all came out in the bathroom. I assure you it was quite visible.

If you keep eating the same sort of diet year after year, your body will achieve a toxic equilibrium, so you won't see these kinds of effects unless you purify your diet for a while. You'll experience degraded mental capacity, for instance, but you won't even realize it because it will just seem normal to you. Then you do something like eat nothing but raw foods for 30 days, and it's like, "Wow... I had no idea this was how I was actually supposed to think and feel." Then the detox effect becomes rather obvious from a mental standpoint too.

Products used in cleanses don't remove the toxins, not exactly. Your body will catch up on the elimination once you stop the flood of taking in new toxins, mainly by eating food that isn't even real -- such as processed, fragmented junk products as you'll find in any grocery store.

However, there are cleansing protocols that can create temporary physiological changes that can help clear out the junk from some of your organs. For example, a liver cleanse protocol will involve taking substances that cause your liver to contract hard, much like squeezing a sponge, to help remove many of the stones, thereby allowing it to do a better job afterwards. Similarly, a colon cleanse can help clear out the mucus and gunk that clogs the inside lines in your intestines. You will see this come out in the toilet, and you'll feel a lot better afterwards because all the food you eat will be better assimilated.

Many of these cleanses, by the way, are fairly inexpensive and can be completed in a week or less.

Don't expect to find a lot of info on this in mainstream scientific journals, however, since the pharmaceutical industry basically puts a stranglehold on truth in those publications. The truth is an enormous threat to their current racket.

Right now, for instance, there's a big snafu happening with the FDA because they've been basically bribed to declare that the harmful substance bisphenol-A is safe. So if mainstream sources like the FDA serve as a source of health knowledge, you're basically going to be doomed to ill health based on faulty info.

I understand that it's hard to know who to trust. That's one of the reasons I rely so much on personal testing. I also take note of what my senses tell me. When I sit down and talk to a raw foodist one-on-one who cured herself of cancer while her medical doctor died from cancer, and similar patterns like this repeat over and over, well... it adds up to something to look into. Then I follow my curiosity and see where it leads.

[Monique7nuns]

If a person is ill or uncomfortable in some way, whereas any given "toxins" are adversely affecting ones health.. sure, yeah detoxing is great. I believe in it and am all for it.. much more so than traditional routes of medicine (aka - the medical establishment insanity). I don't, however, understand why or how some are under this huge impression that their body is toxic even after so many years of "clean" living.

Per Hering's Law of Cure:

"Herings Law of Cure explains the distinct differences between the development of the disease process and the healing process. There are differences between the symptoms manifested by disease from the symptoms of healing a disease.

Herings Law of Cure states, "All cure comes from within out, from the head down and in reverse order as the symptoms have appeared in the body." As we adopt right eating and living habits, our body reacts to these new behaviors. The state of health will retrace backward via the same path that led us to disease in the first place."

To summarize, it takes 1 month of detoxing and healing for every year of illness. IE) It'd take a 37 year old person a little over 3 years of the "right" eating a living habits to heal to clean the slate, so to speak.

So.. If not that, then when, if ever, is a person detoxified enough? Is Steve ailing from a disease?

I know that it is up to the individual to judge "clean and healthy" for themselves, and I just can't help but wonder if cleansing and detoxing, especially in those who are already healthy is a self created, self imposed, self fulfilled reality. To vaguely reference only as far as I've read in Steve's book.. what is the real truth of the matter?

[Dan.Linehan]

Originally Posted by Steve Pavlina

Or do a parasite cleanse, and you'll see parasites floating in the toilet.

What!

[uberinquisitive]

Originally Posted by Fullcrum

Besides all the other stuff you're covering, I'd be curious as to how much more you spend on food (w/ and w/out supplements) per week than on your previous raw diet.

Me too.

I'd really like to know the adverse effects, in full technicolor. A lot of us have jobs and maybe are single parents, so it's important to know stuff like uncontrollable diarrhea (not good while commuting to work) and flu symptoms.

[Scorpio]

Originally Posted by Steve Pavlina

For starters I can't be sure if you're asking from a place of genuine curiosity or because you're looking to dismiss the whole thing out of hand without seriously considering it. (People often ask me questions about this from one perspective or the other. Some truly want more information; some just want to reject whatever makes them feel uncomfortable.)

I'm not dismissing it out of hand, though I am pretty skeptical because in the past I've seen all kinds of claims made or fundamentals of a system taken as fact without any real explanation or evidence. Like a product will say your bowels get clogged and need to be cleared out? I always think, "Do they really? Says who?"

When people say it's a mainstream medicine conspiracy that doesn't sway me because it's not really answering the central question of, "Are the basic assumptions of the claim true or not?"

I'll take a look at the site and see for myself.

[Savage]

Here are some pics (mild) of what can come out during a 7-day liver flush:
GallstonePictures

Now how do you think your liver will perform while it's filled with 1,000 small rocks?

If we ate a healthy raw diet from childhood, we might not have such gunk inside us. But most of us (myself included) were raised on years of fake foods and animal products, and that kind of long-term nutritional abuse takes its toll.

Some of that stuff might break down after years of eating raw plant foods, but we're constantly taking in new toxins just from living in a less than pristine environment. A juice feast is one way to accelerate the cleansing process and see what comes out.

[eternomi]

I don't know how many people can follow these types of extreme regimens, but I would be interested if you covered some of the various detox products on the market. It sounds intriguing and I don't want to dismiss them without any consideration, but I don't want to get scammed. I wouldn't even care if it didn't work, but I don't want to create health problems while trying to make things better. I am thinking that is why most people don't want to even try them out.

Since you have better access to the product creators and such, you are better positioned than most people in evaluating these products.

[Monique7nuns]

Originally Posted by Steve Pavlina

Here are some pics (mild) of what can come out during a 7-day liver flush:
GallstonePictures

Now how do you think your liver will perform while it's filled with 1,000 small rocks?

If we ate a healthy raw diet from childhood, we might not have such gunk inside us. But most of us (myself included) were raised on years of fake foods and animal products, and that kind of long-term nutritional abuse takes its toll.

Some of that stuff might break down after years of eating raw plant foods, but we're constantly taking in new toxins just from living in a less than pristine environment. A juice feast is one way to accelerate the cleansing process and see what comes out.

Does this mean you have rocks in your liver and if so is it effecting the way you live? Are you in pain or discomfort? Is it a matter of feeling like you need to loose weight? Or maybe you're on this exploration to reach a higher level of consciousness? Many do..

Whatever it is, I get the feeling you don't want to say or else you would have responded... which is cool. Perhaps it's more a matter of wanting to help others... an altruistic quest that only by surrounding yourself by 'like-minded' can you evolve.

Are you leading by example or feeding the paranoia? It's a very fine line and I'm having a hard time telling the difference.

[bbdream8]

I got a question here. When detoxing, is it harmful to our body due to the sudden shock it receive?

I saw the pictures of the gallstones... OMG! Is it possible for the liver to contain all these stuff??

Vincent
Personal Development Blogger

[eternomi]

Originally Posted by bbdream8

I got a question here. When detoxing, is it harmful to our body due to the sudden shock it receive?

This is the kind of stuff I wonder too. Same goes for rawfood diets, fasting etc.. I do believe they are good for you, but only if you are relatively healthy to begin with and can take their effects. Who knows what would happen if you suddenly decided to alter your diet drastically overnight.

You can read all day long about those who have done it, but ultimately, you are you and your response may very well be different than theirs. I don't think it is wise to make such drastic changes without supervision in case something does go wrong and you are not stuck trying to get help from an online forum! I imagine Steve is in a unique position having direct access to people who can help him personally if something does go wrong.

As for specific detox products... I don't know. I want to believe in them, but I am rather skeptical. People seem to want to jump through any hoop these days to sell you hopes and dreams. I am sure there is some truth in what they say, but there is usually way too much amplification in their marketing..

Originally Posted by bbdream8

I saw the pictures of the gallstones... OMG! Is it possible for the liver to contain all these stuff??

It probably doesn't contain them in that crystallized form.

[Savage]

Here's a page with a simple liver cleanse protocol:
LiverCleanse

There's also a photo on that page showing a sliced-open gallbladder filled with stones.

I don't know what's inside me in terms of stones, parasites, etc. because I've never done any sort of cleansing protocol. I'm not suffering from any major health problems -- I feel great actually -- so I'm not doing this juice feast and cleansing to reverse any particular symptoms. For me this is a more proactive experiment. I've seen how much better I felt after going 100% raw, and especially how much clearer my thinking is, so I want to see if there are other levels to experience beyond that. I also figure this would be good for preventing more serious problems later in life.

I have talked with people who guide others through these cleansing procedures and learned a lot from them. As with anything else, you have to do your own research and become your own health authority rather than blindly following what TV characters do.

I can't recommend any specific products at this point because I haven't personally tried any yet. But one place I'd trust for an honest recommendation woud be the Tree of Life Rejuvenation Center (Dr. Gabriel Cousens). They have a page about liver cleansing.

In the raw food community, these types of cleanses are fairly well known, and to some degree in the vegan community as well. You won't likely see this sort of stuff in mainstream media though because if everyone started doing these cleanses, the medical community would lose a TON of money, easily many billions of dollars from preventable surgeries (such as gallbladder surgery). It's unfortunate that preventative healthcare protocols largely exist outside the mainstream at this time, but on the bright side, there are people working to change that.

If you want to tap into better sources of health knowledge, a great site to visit is Independent news on natural health, nutrition and more (Mike Adams). Sign up for their RSS feed, and you'll learn a lot in a short period of time. Mike is a very honest and authentic guy who works tirelessly to bring real health knowledge to people who want to know the truth (and not just bury their heads in the sand).

[Savage]

Originally Posted by bbdream8

I got a question here. When detoxing, is it harmful to our body due to the sudden shock it receive?

I saw the pictures of the gallstones... OMG! Is it possible for the liver to contain all these stuff??

Vincent
Personal Development Blogger

I wouldn't say it's harmful per say, but any kind of detoxing can be uncomfortable. I usually experience cold-like symptoms, headaches, and fatigue for a few days, and that's just from dietary improvement. Formal detoxing protocols can be a bit more severe. I think major nausea is a common side effect of liver cleansing, for instance.

As for the gallstones, yes, people have actual rocks like these clogging their bodies. See the link to the gallbladder photo I posted above -- it shows a gallbladder filled with visible stones.

These stones largely form as a result of a highly acidic diet. If you consume lots of animal products, high acidity is pretty much a given because all animal products are acid-forming. The most alkaline foods are fresh fruits and veggies, especially greens.

Cholesterol is a major component in gallbladder stones. Cholesterol is a substance your body naturally uses to counteract excess acidity in your blood. You don't need to consume any dietary cholesterol because your body naturally produces as much as you need. But if you're frequently eating acid-forming foods, you can develop problems from an overload of cholesterol like stones. It wouldn't surprise me at all if I released some stones in the next few months because I ate a highly acidic diet for most of my life.

[straysweeper]

I look forward to the day when C Stores no longer sell beer, tobacco, and fossil fuels. But are more like battery stations, and places to get your juices, smoothies, wheat grass shots, or other forms of health/cleanse products. Also, perhaps have 2nd Level's for people to do cardio on.

[Technosmart]

Originally Posted by Steve Pavlina

Don't expect to find a lot of info on this in mainstream scientific journals, however, since the pharmaceutical industry basically puts a stranglehold on truth in those publications. The truth is an enormous threat to their current racket.

Do you have proof on that ?
I find very difficult to trust someone in the field of medecine and the health. If you listen to all people, all say they have the truth and the neighbourg is wrong... exactly like with the religions. Beside, i appreciate your open mind and your will to test by yourself. The results will be very interesting, but not to be generalized, and it will not be as meticulous and rigorous as a real scientific test.

There is a lot of study indicating that colon hydrotherapy and autointoxication are just a swindling. Enema was probably invented back in the Prehistory time, and used largely in Antiquity and Middle Age - not the best time of humanity relative to the medical knowledge.


A clyster, 17th century version of the enema.

Here is an article of the journal of clinical gastroenterology : Colonic Irrigation and the Theory of Autointoxication: A Triumph of Ignorance over Science. (alas, only the asbtract is freely available)

Here is an excellent French article (automatically translated in English by google) about the swindling of colon hydrotherapy. It have numerous (english) references :

# Chen TS, Chen PS. Intestinal autointoxication: A gastrointestinal leitmotive. Journal Clinical Gastroenterology 11:343-441, 1989.
# Ernst E. Colonic irrigation and the theory of autointoxication: A triumph of ignorance over science. Journal of Clinical Gastroenterology 24:196-198, 1997.
# Alvarez WC. Origin of the so-called auto-intoxication symptoms. JAMA 72:8-13, 1919.
# Donaldson AN. Relation of constipation to intestinal intoxication. JAMA 78:884-888, 1922.
# Kenney JJ. Fit For Life: Some notes on the book and Its roots. Nutrition Forum, March 1986.
# Use of enemas is limited. FDA Consumer 18(6):33, 1984.
# Amebiasis associated with colonic irrigation - Colorado. Morbidity and Mortality Weekly Report 30:101-102, 1981.
# Istre GR and others. An outbreak of amebiasis spread by colonic irrigation at a chiropractic clinic. New England Journal of Medicine 307:339-342, 1982.
# Benjamin R and others. The case against colonic irrigation. California Morbidity, Sept 27, 1985.
# Eisele JW, Reay DT. Deaths related to coffee enemas. JAMA 244:1608-1609, 1980.
# Jarvis WT. Colonic Irrigation. National Council Against Health Fraud, 1995.

[bluedragon]

How important is it to use a slow rotating juicer as opposed to a centrifugal one?
If the centrifugal ones the only option price-wise for me at this time, how can I choose one that will oxidize the juice the least?

[Buttercat Apocalypse]

Originally Posted by Technosmart

Do you have proof on that ?

Proof? You mean, scientific studies, right?

Jus' messing, I came to this thread to write,

Herbal teas?? (mentioned about first paragraph of the blog). Is tea technically a raw food?

[Buttercat Apocalypse]

Originally Posted by Steve Pavlina

I understand that it's hard to know who to trust. That's one of the reasons I rely so much on personal testing. I also take note of what my senses tell me. When I sit down and talk to a raw foodist one-on-one who cured herself of cancer while her medical doctor died from cancer, and similar patterns like this repeat over and over, well... it adds up to something to look into. Then I follow my curiosity and see where it leads.

I swear Steve, if someone cured themselves of cancer with raw foods... well, I better get my head out of my arse and start 30-day-trialling (not that I have cancer but I sure as hell don't want to get it).

[MasterD]

Originally Posted by Steve Pavlina

I understand that it's hard to know who to trust. That's one of the reasons I rely so much on personal testing. I also take note of what my senses tell me. When I sit down and talk to a raw foodist one-on-one who cured herself of cancer while her medical doctor died from cancer, and similar patterns like this repeat over and over, well... it adds up to something to look into. Then I follow my curiosity and see where it leads.

You actually met several of these cases (raw foodists who cured themselves of a major disease like cancer) in person?

[Hari.c]

Good luck Steve. I hope everything goes well. Is Erin ok with your new trail?

[Monique7nuns]

Originally Posted by Steve Pavlina

I don't know what's inside me in terms of stones, parasites, etc. because I've never done any sort of cleansing protocol. I'm not suffering from any major health problems -- I feel great actually -- so I'm not doing this juice feast and cleansing to reverse any particular symptoms. For me this is a more proactive experiment. I've seen how much better I felt after going 100% raw, and especially how much clearer my thinking is, so I want to see if there are other levels to experience beyond that. I also figure this would be good for preventing more serious problems later in life.

On one hand it's great to read you're o-k.. on the other hand, continuing to push that envelope and thinking there will be 'more serious problems' screams of dismorphic disorder. It's as though you will never be healthy enough or perhaps even happy enough with who you are? It's a complete contradiction to the whole "oneness" wave you seem to want to ride... it doesn't make any sense.

When a perfectly healthy person, chooses to go to such extremes on purpose?? I'm just baffled. Don't you honor and respect yourself enough to accept who you are and be happy with it? What kind of a message does this send.. do you even care?

[Buttercat Apocalypse]

Originally Posted by Monique7nuns

On one hand it's great to read you're o-k.. on the other hand, continuing to push that envelope and thinking there will be 'more serious problems' screams of dismorphic disorder. It's as though you will never be healthy enough or perhaps even happy enough with who you are? It's a complete contradiction to the whole "oneness" wave you seem to want to ride... it doesn't make any sense.

When a perfectly healthy person, chooses to go to such extremes on purpose?? I'm just baffled. Don't you honor and respect yourself enough to accept who you are and be happy with it? What kind of a message does this send.. do you even care?

He accepts himself as he is AND wants to improve. Simple. If all he did was accept himself what would he do all day? Sit around smiling?

[Chris01]

Originally Posted by Monique7nuns

On one hand it's great to read you're o-k.. on the other hand, continuing to push that envelope and thinking there will be 'more serious problems' screams of dismorphic disorder. It's as though you will never be healthy enough or perhaps even happy enough with who you are? It's a complete contradiction to the whole "oneness" wave you seem to want to ride... it doesn't make any sense.

When a perfectly healthy person, chooses to go to such extremes on purpose?? I'm just baffled. Don't you honor and respect yourself enough to accept who you are and be happy with it? What kind of a message does this send.. do you even care?

Check out Steve's Self-Acceptance vs. Personal Growth article

[Bud921]

Steve Pavlina for president

[Savage]

Originally Posted by Buttercat Apocalypse

I swear Steve, if someone cured themselves of cancer with raw foods... well, I better get my head out of my arse and start 30-day-trialling (not that I have cancer but I sure as hell don't want to get it).

90% of Americans are currently dying from either cancer or heart disease, both of which are heavily lifestyle-related. Many people suffer from both at the same time, and it's just a question of what kills them first.

Do you spend most of your time hanging out with people who are on the 90% path and get your health knowledge from them? Or do you listen to those who are actively helping people escape that path and heal their bodies? Personally I think my results will be better if I spend more time listening to the second group. I wouldn't feel comfortable taking advice from a doctor that was following a lifestyle on the 90% path to cancer and heart disease. To me that would be a major conflict of interest -- if I want to be healthier, I shouldn't take advice from people who are suicidal.

[Savage]

Originally Posted by MasterD

You actually met several of these cases (raw foodists who cured themselves of a major disease like cancer) in person?

Belly to belly and face to face.

Last month I spent a long time talking with a woman who was diagnosed with terminal cancer and was given (I think) 6 months to live by her doctor. She decided not to go the medical route and turned to raw food nutrition instead. She's roughly my Mom's age and seemed absolutely vibrant, healthy, and happy, and her cancer has been gone for 14 years.

Her doctor, however, also got cancer shortly after she did. He went the traditional medical route. A year later he was in a coffin.

You can walk right up and talk to such people at certain health conferences. For example, come to the next Raw Spirit Festival if you'd like.

But if you're anti-social, you can find plenty of stories online and email people too. Most are happy to share their stories.

Here's a page with a few testimonials about people curing cancer with dietary changes:
Curing Cancer Nutritionally (IV): Healing Testimonies Thanks to Raw Food Diet and Freshly-Extracted Vegetable Juices

Or check out Kim Carr's documentary Crazy Sexy Cancer:
CRAZY SEXY CANCER

People really need to get away from mainstream media brainwashing and go outside into the real world and spend time with the healthiest people they can find. There's a whole world out there of fascinating people to meet. I'll bet you can even walk into a natural foods store and just ask around for stories of people healing cancer with diet, and you'd get some referrals that way.

There are rejuvenation centers around the world that regularly cure people of cancer, heart disease, and diabetes -- largely by taking those people off the unhealthy, artificial diets that have been killing them in the first place and teaching them real nutrition, not the kind of bunk we get conditioned to believe in grade school.

There are highly conscious individual doctors who are out helping people cure themselves. But there are also highly disconnected corporations that are actively killing people to make a buck. You have to understand that things like cancer and heart disease are enormous profit centers for certain enterprises -- they DO NOT want a cure to be publicized. What they want is prolonged treatments that allow them to extract maximum revenue from your illness (and it's even better if the disease comes back later in other form too). Like I said, it's a racket. Most doctors, however, don't know this because they're taught by medical schools which in turn have much of their curriculum dictated by drug companies. This creates a climate where everything not condoned by the drug companies is seen as quackery (even if it's far more effective than conventional treatments). The American Medical Association even devotes part of its budget to discrediting chiropractic care (a threat to the medical model of business as usual).

If you haven't been exposed to such info, it's advisable to take your head out of the sand and start getting a real education from sources that aren't corrupted by the influence of drug companies. Independent news on natural health, nutrition and more is a great place to start. Sign up for the RSS feed, and start re-educating yourself. It will be an eye-opening experience to be sure.

And if you have doubts, follow up. Get out there and meet people face to face. Talk to them in person. Then compare that with people who've gone the traditional medical route, assuming they're still around.

You can also use a bit of common sense, which is unfortunately all too uncommon. You can essentially tell which kind of operation you're dealing with (as a patient) based on how they treat you. When you walk in the door, are you treated like a precious human being or an entry in a database? Of course many places are a mix of both (such as compassionate doctors working within a really messed up system), but you'll tend to find strong leanings one way or the other. When you walk in the door, do you think, "This is a place of real healing" or "This is a place of sickness and disease." Listen to your subtle feelings. Is the person helping you heal aligned with truth, love, and power?

Take Mike Adams' advice, and ask your doctor to refer you to patients s/he has cured of cancer. If you don't get any referrals, run away! Why would you want to receive medical treatment from a failure?

[Monique7nuns]

Originally Posted by Buttercat Apocalypse

He accepts himself as he is AND wants to improve. Simple. If all he did was accept himself what would he do all day? Sit around smiling?

No. He'd be out doing whatever he loves to do, enjoying his family and friends, life, love.. creating a better world. See the Oneness post.

Self-Acceptance/love is (or should be) at the core of all that we do.. on any development path.

If Steve or anyone else isn't able or doesn't want to acknowledge or even consider the point I'm trying to make here, that's just the way it is. I am very stubborn myself.. different people have different "truths" and that's one of the things that makes life so interesting.

Steve's continued health obsession has really helped open my eyes. When I got sick and learned what I felt was the truth about real nutrition and real health.. (think complete opposite of the whole raw movement).. and I drastically improved.. I wanted to shout my story and what I'd learned from the mountain tops.. as if I had suddenly become an expert and everyone should do the same as what I'd done.

But I'm not an expert.. my perspective has since broadened and the fact is I don't know what the be-all, end-all, super-ultra health answer is. In fact the only conclusion I can reasonably make is that it is up to the individual to figure out what works best for them and hence, I will not be one of the countless others trying to push yet another health agenda onto the already confused masses.

Steve is a remarkable human and human none-the-less.. just like the rest of us. I'm glad that in what he has expressed with his personal health experiments has made me realize just how much I humbly don't know.. nor will I ever, again presume as much.

[Savage]

Originally Posted by Monique7nuns

On one hand it's great to read you're o-k.. on the other hand, continuing to push that envelope and thinking there will be 'more serious problems' screams of dismorphic disorder. It's as though you will never be healthy enough or perhaps even happy enough with who you are? It's a complete contradiction to the whole "oneness" wave you seem to want to ride... it doesn't make any sense.

When a perfectly healthy person, chooses to go to such extremes on purpose?? I'm just baffled. Don't you honor and respect yourself enough to accept who you are and be happy with it? What kind of a message does this send.. do you even care?

To me it's normal and intelligent to continue to optimize my health. It's part of my path of personal growth. The results of this journey have been awesome for me, so why on earth would I want to stop progressing? Who cares if other people think it's extreme? I certainly don't. I think all human beings should experience vibrant health and energy and wake up with a feeling of boundless energy.

90% of those people who think what I'm doing is extreme are on a path to dying of cancer or heart disease. So what possible incentive would I have for taking their advice and joining them? I want to learn from the people who are healthy and vibrant in their 80s, not the ones who are in the hospital doing chemo at age 50.

The real extreme path is the extremely bad one most people follow when it comes to diet and health. It's the path of committing slow suicide through self-poisoning. It may be popular but in truth it's quite dumb.

Going to extremes is walking into a grocery store and eating manufactured foods from a cardboard box, stuff made from fragmented pieces of the original inputs. Even a chimpanzee would find that an absurd way to live.

Truth cannot be subject to the vote of people who are on the path of ignorance.

I don't want to see 90% of my friends slowly dying of cancer and heart disease and succumbing to other preventable illnesses. I don't even want to see people needlessly suffering from colds and flus.